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*** 2024 Pittsburgh Steelers: one and done again. (2 Viewers)

the most disappointing thing to me is that there hasn’t been much improvement anywhere else. The line still stinks and they have one of the worst WR rooms in the league.
I actually disagree wit hall of this.

I think the OL, while disappointing this year, is poised to be a major strength for the next 5+ seasons and in general think Kahns added some very good young talent with both of his draft classes. One guy got hurt, the other regressed but give it some time and I think his approach to building the team from the lines out and the players he picked to do it will prove to be the best thing about this team over the next few years.

The problem is our best and highest paid players on defense were getting old when the he took over what I considered one of the worst overall rosters in the league. Which I do absoltuely give Tomlin credit, a lot of it, for pulling into the playoffs. I'm just not wired for this to be my goal. I think he has a lot of strategic defencies both in his coaching and hiring of his coaching staff that prove problematic in the playoffs.

This all boils down to me of what you want. You want to be competitive every regular season it's hard to argue against Tomlin. You willing to risk being worse in the regular season for a shot at being better in the post-season I think the team can do better then Tomlin.
 
Didn't Tomlin lose 4 playoff games in a row with a HOF QB before these last 2?
Marv Levy lost 4 Super Bowls in a row.
It would be nice to even get to one, or maybe even win a playoff game again.
How many SB victories does Tomlin have? I’ll bet an equal amount more than Levy and Bud Grant.
He won 1 some 16 years ago.
If memory serves, Tomlin goes to the playoffs almost every year. That alone counts for something, doesn’t it? Like I said, be careful what you wish for.
Made it 4 of his first 5 years. Continued the success of Cowher's tenure.

Made it in 8 of the past 13, but 2 of those were as the 7 seed that didn't exist prior to 2020. Squeaking in because of a new format and facing the Bills and Chiefs on the road barely counts.

The playoff success he hasn't had since 2011 is well documented.

That might acceptable to some franchises. A step up. But it's lowered the standard in Pittsburgh.
You just reinforced my 4 word post earlier.
That's not being spoiled. It's not like Tomlin hasn't had talent or a good organization behind him like teams with lower standards. He repeats that mantra, "the standard is the standard" for a reason"

The Steelers having a higher standard than the Colts doesn't make Steelers fan spoiled lol
Thin line
 
Didn't Tomlin lose 4 playoff games in a row with a HOF QB before these last 2?
Marv Levy lost 4 Super Bowls in a row.
It would be nice to even get to one, or maybe even win a playoff game again.
How many SB victories does Tomlin have? I’ll bet an equal amount more than Levy and Bud Grant.
He won 1 some 16 years ago.
If memory serves, Tomlin goes to the playoffs almost every year. That alone counts for something, doesn’t it? Like I said, be careful what you wish for.
Made it 4 of his first 5 years. Continued the success of Cowher's tenure.

Made it in 8 of the past 13, but 2 of those were as the 7 seed that didn't exist prior to 2020. Squeaking in because of a new format and facing the Bills and Chiefs on the road barely counts.

The playoff success he hasn't had since 2011 is well documented.

That might acceptable to some franchises. A step up. But it's lowered the standard in Pittsburgh.
The players have been terrible on offense in recent years. They've had no business even making the playoffs with a lot of these teams. Why is Tomlin getting blamed for this? I truly don't get it.
Nobody blames Tomlin for that.

But, he had Ben and a ton of offensive and defensive talent between 2011 and 2020. He didn't win then either.

So the last few years have just been a continuation. They've had the talent of a 9 or 10 win team recently, and that's what they've been. Youd have to watch the games and follow the team beyond box scores and sportscenter to understand what's happened to the team over the past 14 years.
 
the most disappointing thing to me is that there hasn’t been much improvement anywhere else. The line still stinks and they have one of the worst WR rooms in the league.
I actually disagree wit hall of this.

I think the OL, while disappointing this year, is poised to be a major strength for the next 5+ seasons and in general think Kahns added some very good young talent with both of his draft classes. One guy got hurt, the other regressed but give it some time and I think his approach to building the team from the lines out and the players he picked to do it will prove to be the best thing about this team over the next few years.

The problem is our best and highest paid players on defense were getting old when the he took over what I considered one of the worst overall rosters in the league. Which I do absoltuely give Tomlin credit, a lot of it, for pulling into the playoffs. I'm just not wired for this to be my goal. I think he has a lot of strategic defencies both in his coaching and hiring of his coaching staff that prove problematic in the playoffs.

This all boils down to me of what you want. You want to be competitive every regular season it's hard to argue against Tomlin. You willing to risk being worse in the regular season for a shot at being better in the post-season I think the team can do better then Tomlin.
They line MAY come together. It hasn’t yet and they’ve spent a ton of capital on it. I agree that they should continue to build.

I think the defense is fine. Watt and Minka are two of the best in the league. Porter is going to be a stud for years to come. The defense is almost solely responsible for the first half season run. The created turnovers, pressured the QB, and shut teams down.

Imagine what they could be if the offense could hold the ball even a little and wasn’t going three and out for the whole first half of games.

Hopefully the line comes together, they get the running game going, and find a WR that can get open to move the chains. I have no idea what they can do at QB. It is what it is.
 
Can't lose the Super Bowl if you never get to it
Never?

Something that last happened for a Tomlin-coached team, what, 14 years ago? That is a lot closer to "never" than it is to "recently" in the "What have you done for me lately" cycle of the NFL.

If fans of some other team are tight with their team only getting a shot at a trophy once every 30 years, they're entitled to feel that way. I expect more from this one, particularly one that is a self-avowed "flagship franchise" of the league.

I have never been a Tomlin hater. I'm not a hater now. Players clearly want to play for him. He's probably a righteous dude IRL. He used to have the world's sharpest edges on his beard/fade and it was exquisite. That said, you don't have to hate on a guy to think perhaps he/the organization have grown stale after a couple decades of huffing their own flatus. Put everyone you care to into that barrel: HC, coordinators, GM, owner, training staff, ticket vendors past and present. Bottom line there though is the on-field results are Tomlin's, and that's according to Tomlin.

"Getting to the first round of the playoffs and getting bum rushed out of them" shouldn't be the standard. Nor should it be acceptable, to fans or the organization, just because "Well, y'know, the Jets have sucked forever!! YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY YOU ARENT THE JETS! AT LEAST YOU'RE GETTING BUM RUSHED IN THE PLAYOFFS! THEY DON'T EVEN GET THAT!"
 
Didn't Tomlin lose 4 playoff games in a row with a HOF QB before these last 2?
Marv Levy lost 4 Super Bowls in a row.
It would be nice to even get to one, or maybe even win a playoff game again.
How many SB victories does Tomlin have? I’ll bet an equal amount more than Levy and Bud Grant.
He won 1 some 16 years ago.
If memory serves, Tomlin goes to the playoffs almost every year. That alone counts for something, doesn’t it? Like I said, be careful what you wish for.
Made it 4 of his first 5 years. Continued the success of Cowher's tenure.

Made it in 8 of the past 13, but 2 of those were as the 7 seed that didn't exist prior to 2020. Squeaking in because of a new format and facing the Bills and Chiefs on the road barely counts.

The playoff success he hasn't had since 2011 is well documented.

That might acceptable to some franchises. A step up. But it's lowered the standard in Pittsburgh.
The players have been terrible on offense in recent years. They've had no business even making the playoffs with a lot of these teams. Why is Tomlin getting blamed for this? I truly don't get it.
Nobody blames Tomlin for that.

But, he had Ben and a ton of offensive and defensive talent between 2011 and 2020. He didn't win then either.

So the last few years have just been a continuation. They've had the talent of a 9 or 10 win team recently, and that's what they've been. Youd have to watch the games and follow the team beyond box scores and sportscenter to understand what's happened to the team over the past 14 years.
How many NFL coaches are truly better than Tomlin?
 
This...
This all boils down to me of what you want. You want to be competitive every regular season it's hard to argue against Tomlin. You willing to risk being worse in the regular season for a shot at being better in the post-season I think the team can do better then Tomlin.

Because of this...

I'm just not wired for this to be my goal. I think he has a lot of strategic defencies both in his coaching and hiring of his coaching staff that prove problematic in the playoffs.
 
Didn't Tomlin lose 4 playoff games in a row with a HOF QB before these last 2?
Marv Levy lost 4 Super Bowls in a row.
It would be nice to even get to one, or maybe even win a playoff game again.
How many SB victories does Tomlin have? I’ll bet an equal amount more than Levy and Bud Grant.
He won 1 some 16 years ago.
If memory serves, Tomlin goes to the playoffs almost every year. That alone counts for something, doesn’t it? Like I said, be careful what you wish for.
Made it 4 of his first 5 years. Continued the success of Cowher's tenure.

Made it in 8 of the past 13, but 2 of those were as the 7 seed that didn't exist prior to 2020. Squeaking in because of a new format and facing the Bills and Chiefs on the road barely counts.

The playoff success he hasn't had since 2011 is well documented.

That might acceptable to some franchises. A step up. But it's lowered the standard in Pittsburgh.
The players have been terrible on offense in recent years. They've had no business even making the playoffs with a lot of these teams. Why is Tomlin getting blamed for this? I truly don't get it.
Nobody blames Tomlin for that.

But, he had Ben and a ton of offensive and defensive talent between 2011 and 2020. He didn't win then either.

So the last few years have just been a continuation. They've had the talent of a 9 or 10 win team recently, and that's what they've been. Youd have to watch the games and follow the team beyond box scores and sportscenter to understand what's happened to the team over the past 14 years.
How many NFL coaches are truly better than Tomlin?
Truly better? No clue.

I think Tomlin is an average NFL coach who landed in an exceptional situation that a lot of other coaches couldve been very successful in. That's led to plenty of regular season wins and stability because he coaches for an organization that values it, possibly too much. Stability has become complacency though.
 
Didn't Tomlin lose 4 playoff games in a row with a HOF QB before these last 2?
Marv Levy lost 4 Super Bowls in a row.
It would be nice to even get to one, or maybe even win a playoff game again.
How many SB victories does Tomlin have? I’ll bet an equal amount more than Levy and Bud Grant.
He won 1 some 16 years ago.
If memory serves, Tomlin goes to the playoffs almost every year. That alone counts for something, doesn’t it? Like I said, be careful what you wish for.
Made it 4 of his first 5 years. Continued the success of Cowher's tenure.

Made it in 8 of the past 13, but 2 of those were as the 7 seed that didn't exist prior to 2020. Squeaking in because of a new format and facing the Bills and Chiefs on the road barely counts.

The playoff success he hasn't had since 2011 is well documented.

That might acceptable to some franchises. A step up. But it's lowered the standard in Pittsburgh.
The players have been terrible on offense in recent years. They've had no business even making the playoffs with a lot of these teams. Why is Tomlin getting blamed for this? I truly don't get it.
Nobody blames Tomlin for that.

But, he had Ben and a ton of offensive and defensive talent between 2011 and 2020. He didn't win then either.

So the last few years have just been a continuation. They've had the talent of a 9 or 10 win team recently, and that's what they've been. Youd have to watch the games and follow the team beyond box scores and sportscenter to understand what's happened to the team over the past 14 years.
How many NFL coaches are truly better than Tomlin?
Truly better? No clue.

I think Tomlin is an average NFL coach who landed in an exceptional situation that a lot of other coaches couldve been very successful in. That's led to plenty of regular season wins and stability because he coaches for an organization that values it, possibly too much. Stability has become complacency though.
You should be able to answer that question if you’re wanting rid of him
 
Didn't Tomlin lose 4 playoff games in a row with a HOF QB before these last 2?
Marv Levy lost 4 Super Bowls in a row.
It would be nice to even get to one, or maybe even win a playoff game again.
How many SB victories does Tomlin have? I’ll bet an equal amount more than Levy and Bud Grant.
He won 1 some 16 years ago.
If memory serves, Tomlin goes to the playoffs almost every year. That alone counts for something, doesn’t it? Like I said, be careful what you wish for.
Made it 4 of his first 5 years. Continued the success of Cowher's tenure.

Made it in 8 of the past 13, but 2 of those were as the 7 seed that didn't exist prior to 2020. Squeaking in because of a new format and facing the Bills and Chiefs on the road barely counts.

The playoff success he hasn't had since 2011 is well documented.

That might acceptable to some franchises. A step up. But it's lowered the standard in Pittsburgh.
The players have been terrible on offense in recent years. They've had no business even making the playoffs with a lot of these teams. Why is Tomlin getting blamed for this? I truly don't get it.
Nobody blames Tomlin for that.

But, he had Ben and a ton of offensive and defensive talent between 2011 and 2020. He didn't win then either.

So the last few years have just been a continuation. They've had the talent of a 9 or 10 win team recently, and that's what they've been. Youd have to watch the games and follow the team beyond box scores and sportscenter to understand what's happened to the team over the past 14 years.
How many NFL coaches are truly better than Tomlin?
Truly better? No clue.

I think Tomlin is an average NFL coach who landed in an exceptional situation that a lot of other coaches couldve been very successful in. That's led to plenty of regular season wins and stability because he coaches for an organization that values it, possibly too much. Stability has become complacency though.
You should be able to answer that question if you’re wanting rid of him
Disagree. Assuming the Steelers are tired of consistent mediocrity (they arent), they fire the guy and then find the replace. They don't have to know the replacement right now. But this is all moot. The Steelers aren't getting rid of Tomlin.
 
I don’t think Steelers fans are spoiled. No fan base is ever happy unless you win a ring. If Tomlin had won more playoff games, but not more Superbowls, fans still wouldn’t be happy.

George Allen, Bud Grant, Chuck Knox, Marty Schottenheimer, were all very successful head coaches, and eventually they were all fired. Because they didn’t win it all. That’s the way it should be.

I think Tomlin is a great head coach. I wouldn’t fire him- yet- because I think the problem is elsewhere (lack of elite QB) and it’s not like a different HC is going to get this team a SB win. But Tomlin will be gone soon regardless of what I think.
 
Didn't Tomlin lose 4 playoff games in a row with a HOF QB before these last 2?
Marv Levy lost 4 Super Bowls in a row.
It would be nice to even get to one, or maybe even win a playoff game again.
How many SB victories does Tomlin have? I’ll bet an equal amount more than Levy and Bud Grant.
He won 1 some 16 years ago.
If memory serves, Tomlin goes to the playoffs almost every year. That alone counts for something, doesn’t it? Like I said, be careful what you wish for.
Made it 4 of his first 5 years. Continued the success of Cowher's tenure.

Made it in 8 of the past 13, but 2 of those were as the 7 seed that didn't exist prior to 2020. Squeaking in because of a new format and facing the Bills and Chiefs on the road barely counts.

The playoff success he hasn't had since 2011 is well documented.

That might acceptable to some franchises. A step up. But it's lowered the standard in Pittsburgh.
The players have been terrible on offense in recent years. They've had no business even making the playoffs with a lot of these teams. Why is Tomlin getting blamed for this? I truly don't get it.
Nobody blames Tomlin for that.

But, he had Ben and a ton of offensive and defensive talent between 2011 and 2020. He didn't win then either.

So the last few years have just been a continuation. They've had the talent of a 9 or 10 win team recently, and that's what they've been. Youd have to watch the games and follow the team beyond box scores and sportscenter to understand what's happened to the team over the past 14 years.
How many NFL coaches are truly better than Tomlin?
Truly better? No clue.

I think Tomlin is an average NFL coach who landed in an exceptional situation that a lot of other coaches couldve been very successful in. That's led to plenty of regular season wins and stability because he coaches for an organization that values it, possibly too much. Stability has become complacency though.
You should be able to answer that question if you’re wanting rid of him
Disagree. It doesnt matter. Rough estimate? 15.

I'm not an expert on who's better or who's worse. But, he hasn't evolved as a coach and his results for the past 15 years speak for themselves. I'd like to see him replaced by an innovative offensive minded coach who can develop a QB and put coordinators in place who can bring the Steelers into the current NFL.

He had his chance to put his own stamp on things when Ben retired. He responded by retaining Matt Canada and his high school level offense and drafting Kenny Pickett 2 or 3 rounds before anyone thought he should go.

That didn't work? OK. Let's bring in a young guy with some talent and see what he can do. Enter Justin Fields... oh wait. Let's also hire Arthur Smith and his old school, predictable offense and use Russell Wilson instead of the young guy so that we can scrape our way to 9 or 10 wins and an early playoff exit... to hell with the future, gotta maintain that standard.

Id rather the Steelers try and fail with a different, innovative head coach than continue along the same path they've been on for 15 years.
 
Total playoff wins by a bunch of current coaches for the last 8 seasons (counting the current one as the 8th):

Andy Reid - 15
Kyle Shanahan - 8
Sean McVay - 7
Sean McDermott - 6
Zac Taylor - 5
Doug Pederson - 5
John Harbaugh - 3
Nick Sirriani - 3
Sean Payton - 3
Matt LaFleur - 3
Dan Campbell - 2
Mike Vrabel - 2
DeMeco Ryans - 2
Mike Tomlin - 0
 
Total playoff wins by a bunch of current coaches for the last 8 seasons (counting the current one as the 8th):

Andy Reid - 15
Kyle Shanahan - 8
Sean McVay - 7
Sean McDermott - 6
Zac Taylor - 5
Doug Pederson - 5
John Harbaugh - 3
Nick Sirriani - 3
Sean Payton - 3
Matt LaFleur - 3
Dan Campbell - 2
Mike Vrabel - 2
DeMeco Ryans - 2
Mike Tomlin - 0
Tomlin apologists will point out that in those 8 years, he had good Ben (2017, 2018, 2020), Hodges/Rudolph (2019), sucky Ben (2021), Pickett/Rudolph (2022, 2023), and Wilson (2024)

Of course, going back to 2011 and adding in 6 additional seasons with prime HOF Ben isn't going to make Tomlin look any better.

Nah, they'd never be able to find anyone who'd have been as successful as Tomlin.
 
Total playoff wins by a bunch of current coaches for the last 8 seasons (counting the current one as the 8th):

Andy Reid - 15
Kyle Shanahan - 8
Sean McVay - 7
Sean McDermott - 6
Zac Taylor - 5
Doug Pederson - 5
John Harbaugh - 3
Nick Sirriani - 3
Sean Payton - 3
Matt LaFleur - 3
Dan Campbell - 2
Mike Vrabel - 2
DeMeco Ryans - 2
Mike Tomlin - 0
Tomlin apologists will point out that in those 8 years, he had good Ben (2017, 2018, 2020), Hodges/Rudolph (2019), sucky Ben (2021), Pickett/Rudolph (2022, 2023), and Wilson (2024)

Of course, going back to 2011 and adding in 6 additional seasons with prime HOF Ben isn't going to make Tomlin look any better.

Nah, they'd never be able to find anyone who'd have been as successful as Tomlin.

There was a link floating around about a year ago, from I think a Joe Starkey radio segment, that was a response to Jason LaCanfora doing the whole "WHO WOULD YOU INGRATES REPLACE HIM WITH!? HE'D BE OUT OF A JOB FOR FIVE MINUTES!" narrative that many national media types toe.

It pretty much outlined what was posted in that list (except its one year/loss worse now, of course), and posited what I've trying to convey for a while: Mike Tomlin is a good coach, but it is not idiocy/insanity/presumption/"hating" to merely question if the Steelers wouldn't be better off trying something fresh given his body of work. Cuz the "current standard" ain't really workin'.
 
As a season ticket holder I always want the team to be competitive and “in the hunt” so the home games I have at the end of the season aren’t meaningless.

Tomlin has done an exceptional job at accomplishing that. However I also want to go into the playoffs with an occasional home playoff game and the expectation of winning one of them. He hasn’t been so great at that for a while.

The end of season collapse wasn’t totally unexpected when the schedule came out. We knew that was a going to be a tough stretch.

But the losses against Indy, Dallas and Cleveland were examples of the team not being prepared and it cost them the division. The season finale against the Bengals was also a very winnable game where the offense couldn’t do anything against a very suspect defense and our defense just couldn’t get off the field.

I hold Tomlin responsible for that and it’s been a pattern for nearly a decade.

I just think it would be for the Steelers and Tomlin himself if he goes elsewhere
 
I just think it would be for the Steelers and Tomlin himself if he goes elsewhere
I think you're probably right. The Steelers could stop putting band aids on everything and get a fresh start. And Tomlin would give any struggling franchise a measure of respectability.

7 or 8 years ago, I was starting to feel this way about John Harbaugh. "The message has worn thin", etc......Then they drafted Jackson and recreated the entire offense (if you can find two more different "name" QBs than Flacco & Jackson, I'd like to hear it).

To me, the most damning thing about the Steelers the last several years is that they haven't seemed to develop coaches. That's squarely on Tomlin.
 
Now that I’ve had a couple days to reflect on everything and watch the other teams in the playoffs, I’ve come to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter much who the coach is until they get a stud QB.
This. The team doesn’t have the talent needed to compete for a superbowl. Given that there is probably only 10 - 12 QBs on the planet that give their team a chance, I’m not sure how they get one. You have ATL paying a QB $45M/year AND drafting one at 1.08 and neither may get them there.

All they can do is build the best team they can and look for that opportunity. Which is exactly what they did this season with Wilson and Fields.
 
Now that I’ve had a couple days to reflect on everything and watch the other teams in the playoffs, I’ve come to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter much who the coach is until they get a stud QB.
True. However, Tomlin is still not good on gameday. He's poor with challenges and terrible at clock management.
 
Now that I’ve had a couple days to reflect on everything and watch the other teams in the playoffs, I’ve come to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter much who the coach is until they get a stud QB.
True. However, Tomlin is still not good on gameday. He's poor with challenges and terrible at clock management.
Agreed but that can be masked by a stud QB. I saw the Commanders coaching make some in game mistakes (at least in my opinion) but they had a QB that could keep them in it no matter what.
 
Now that I’ve had a couple days to reflect on everything and watch the other teams in the playoffs, I’ve come to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter much who the coach is until they get a stud QB.
1000% and the likelihood of getting that stud QB via trade or free agency is not high.

Thats why they should sign a cheap veteran QB and use the 2025 draft and cap space to get a legit #1 WR and improve the secondary.

If they want to take a flyer on a QB in the fourth round or later I have no problem with that but the unfortunate truth is the Steelers likely need a 3 or 4 win season to get the stud QB
They desperately need
 
Now that I’ve had a couple days to reflect on everything and watch the other teams in the playoffs, I’ve come to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter much who the coach is until they get a stud QB.
I agree that a QB is a must. But bringing in a stud QB and putting them into the type of vanilla offense the Steelers will continue to run under Mike Tomlin and anyone he ever hires as an offensive coordinator won't matter either.

Just watch the imaginative plays that other teams run. Creating space, using motion effectively, putting guys in positions to make plays. The Steelers don't have that, and Tomlin is the reason for that. There needs to be someone at the top who believes in that to be successful today.

When Ben retired, he inexplicably retained Matt Canada and drafted Kenny Pickett. And then he had a chance to make an impactful OC hire again and he hired Arthur Smith. He had a chance to work and try to develop a young, more dynamic QB in Fields but decided to stick with the stale veteran who'd run a simpler offense with nothing but short passes and deep balls. The idea that defenses can win championships without any type of dynamic offense that can score points is an outdated philosophy and it's not going to work in the NFL today.
 
Now that I’ve had a couple days to reflect on everything and watch the other teams in the playoffs, I’ve come to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter much who the coach is until they get a stud QB.
True. However, Tomlin is still not good on gameday. He's poor with challenges and terrible at clock management.
He's also never developed a QB of any kind. He was handed the keys to a Ferrari with Ben, and that's pretty much been it
 
When Ben retired, he inexplicably retained Matt Canada and drafted Kenny Pickett. A
This is one thing I place little blame on Tomlin for. Local and national media was replete with rumors that the scouts/gm certainly didn't want him at that selection. Pickett was dictated to be drafted by Art Rooney II's ****/ delusions of Dan Marino.

Perhaps Tomlin was also 100% behind it and on board, but that's irrelevant. Art deemed that they werent passing on Kenny Pickett, so they were taking Kenny Pickett.
 
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Yep - I wouldn't mind trading a mid pick for say the Bears back up. He was drafted high then Caleb came in right away the next year.

But I agree they haven't developed a QB ever. Brady was a unicorn but look at Purdy and a couple others. You can't find talent in the deeper round instead of reaching for a middling guy. That sets you back a year.
 
What I’ll add to the Tomlin discussion is: Where is the Tomlin coaching tree? Most OC/DC and sub coaches hired are Tomlin picks. They have never been good at developing young talent, and I can’t think of much in the way of success after Tomlin with the most notable probably being Ariens.
 
Steelers feel like they are stuck in a cycle since Ben left. The roster has a lot of holes but a solid defense and Tomlin gets a 7-8 win team to 9-10 wins. They make the playoffs when they probably don't deserve it, then they lose in the first round to a superior team. They end up with the 20th pick which puts them in a bad situation to get a franchise QB. They fill some holes and runs the team back largely the same with the same results.
Theres some perception that Tomlin gets more out of the talent he has than most would. That's simply not true. He's like a RB who can get what's blocked but doesn't get anything more than that, and sometimes he gets let's because his teams show up flat for games they should win. Its been that way for a long time, not just recently.

Given the talent the Steelers HAVE had, even over the past few years, that's what he is. His shortcomings as a coach are painfully obvious to anyone who watches them.

The Steelers might be the least talented team in the NFL playoffs this season.
They might be. Might be close to it. But they're talented enough to be a 10 win team that's the least talented team in the playoffs. That's basically been the goal of the team for the past decade, and that's the style of team Tomlin coaches.

Wilson was going to be good enough to help the team win 9 or 10 games. Fields might not have been, but neither was going to lead this team to playoff success.

What was awful last night isn't that the Steelers lost to a better team. Its that they had nothing. No spark, no energy. There's a reason why the Steelers have been outscored in their last 6 or 7 playoff games in the first quarter by a combined score of 80-0.

The fact that the Steelers were a 10 win team is a testament to their coaching, not their talent. They aren't winning games in spite of their coach, they win them because of him.

I agree with you about the QBs. I said the same thing about the QB situation in the thread talking about whether Tomlin should have gone to Wilson. Neither guy is good enough to win you a Superbowl.
That's simply incorrect. They had 10-win team talent, especially with their defense and their early schedule as it was. They didn't win any games they shouldn't have won this year, but they lost games where they played flat against the Browns and a home game against the Cowboys. Happens every year.

They ended on a 5 game losing streak. OK, whatever, right? In 5 of the past 7 years, the Steelers have lost at least 3 games in December. When most good teams are improving and gearing up for the playoffs, the Steelers fade almost every year. This has been a problem for a long time, but people who only read headlines and listen to national media just have no clue.

Disagree. They beat the Ravens who are clearly a more talented team. Winning at Washington, now in hindsight was a game they could have/should have lost but didn't. Chargers were a nice win. Apart from Denver, I think Pittsburgh was the least talented team in this years playoffs.
 
What I’ll add to the Tomlin discussion is: Where is the Tomlin coaching tree? Most OC/DC and sub coaches hired are Tomlin picks. They have never been good at developing young talent, and I can’t think of much in the way of success after Tomlin with the most notable probably being Ariens.
Ariens was hired by Bill Cowher. Mike T's coaching tree is barren.
 
Steelers feel like they are stuck in a cycle since Ben left. The roster has a lot of holes but a solid defense and Tomlin gets a 7-8 win team to 9-10 wins. They make the playoffs when they probably don't deserve it, then they lose in the first round to a superior team. They end up with the 20th pick which puts them in a bad situation to get a franchise QB. They fill some holes and runs the team back largely the same with the same results.
Theres some perception that Tomlin gets more out of the talent he has than most would. That's simply not true. He's like a RB who can get what's blocked but doesn't get anything more than that, and sometimes he gets let's because his teams show up flat for games they should win. Its been that way for a long time, not just recently.

Given the talent the Steelers HAVE had, even over the past few years, that's what he is. His shortcomings as a coach are painfully obvious to anyone who watches them.

The Steelers might be the least talented team in the NFL playoffs this season.
They might be. Might be close to it. But they're talented enough to be a 10 win team that's the least talented team in the playoffs. That's basically been the goal of the team for the past decade, and that's the style of team Tomlin coaches.

Wilson was going to be good enough to help the team win 9 or 10 games. Fields might not have been, but neither was going to lead this team to playoff success.

What was awful last night isn't that the Steelers lost to a better team. Its that they had nothing. No spark, no energy. There's a reason why the Steelers have been outscored in their last 6 or 7 playoff games in the first quarter by a combined score of 80-0.

The fact that the Steelers were a 10 win team is a testament to their coaching, not their talent. They aren't winning games in spite of their coach, they win them because of him.

I agree with you about the QBs. I said the same thing about the QB situation in the thread talking about whether Tomlin should have gone to Wilson. Neither guy is good enough to win you a Superbowl.
That's simply incorrect. They had 10-win team talent, especially with their defense and their early schedule as it was. They didn't win any games they shouldn't have won this year, but they lost games where they played flat against the Browns and a home game against the Cowboys. Happens every year.

They ended on a 5 game losing streak. OK, whatever, right? In 5 of the past 7 years, the Steelers have lost at least 3 games in December. When most good teams are improving and gearing up for the playoffs, the Steelers fade almost every year. This has been a problem for a long time, but people who only read headlines and listen to national media just have no clue.

Disagree. They beat the Ravens who are clearly a more talented team. Winning at Washington, now in hindsight was a game they could have/should have lost but didn't. Chargers were a nice win. Apart from Denver, I think Pittsburgh was the least talented team in this years playoffs.
They've beaten Baltimore regularly for the past 5 years no matter who's been at QB. Old Ben beat them, Rudolph beat them, Pickett beat them. It's the nature of the rivalry, so to split with Baltimore was expected. And they didn't win that game because of anything other than a good enough defensive performance, Boswell being a stud, and Tucker missing multiple kicks.

The win in Washington wasn't flukey either. They have enough talent to beat teams like them, especially in the first half of the year. The losses to the Cowboys, Colts, and Browns? Those were ugly but predictable... happens every year.

The Steelers were likely the least talented team in the playoffs on the offensive side. Definitely not on the defensive side of the ball or on special teams though. They deserved to be a 10 win team and had the talent to be a 10 win team, but that gets you nowhere in the playoffs when teams have more dynamic and innovative offensive philosophies and aren't stuck trying to pretend what won in the 90's will still win today.
 
Not a fan of this hire, but willing to see how it goes before I start complaining too much. He has to be better than Canada was, but I still this his inability to get the Atlanta offense going with several stud players is concerning.

Also, a month ago someone asked the Titans fans on reddit if they'd want Smith back as OC and the gist was "F*** No!" Mostly because they noted that if Henry wasn't playing like an all-pro, the offense did nothing.

Hoping to see some innovative concepts next year that maximize the talents of Pickens, Diontae, Najee, Warren, and Freiermuth, but expecting to see us run it into the line over and over against stacked boxes.
Well, he was better than Canada, but it definitely fell apart as the season went on, and it was way too predictable. The misuse of Mike Williams was so strange.
 
Didn't Tomlin lose 4 playoff games in a row with a HOF QB before these last 2?
Marv Levy lost 4 Super Bowls in a row.
It would be nice to even get to one, or maybe even win a playoff game again.
How many SB victories does Tomlin have? I’ll bet an equal amount more than Levy and Bud Grant.
He won 1 some 16 years ago.
If memory serves, Tomlin goes to the playoffs almost every year. That alone counts for something, doesn’t it? Like I said, be careful what you wish for.
Made it 4 of his first 5 years. Continued the success of Cowher's tenure.

Made it in 8 of the past 13, but 2 of those were as the 7 seed that didn't exist prior to 2020. Squeaking in because of a new format and facing the Bills and Chiefs on the road barely counts.

The playoff success he hasn't had since 2011 is well documented.

That might acceptable to some franchises. A step up. But it's lowered the standard in Pittsburgh.
The players have been terrible on offense in recent years. They've had no business even making the playoffs with a lot of these teams. Why is Tomlin getting blamed for this? I truly don't get it.
Nobody blames Tomlin for that.

But, he had Ben and a ton of offensive and defensive talent between 2011 and 2020. He didn't win then either.

So the last few years have just been a continuation. They've had the talent of a 9 or 10 win team recently, and that's what they've been. Youd have to watch the games and follow the team beyond box scores and sportscenter to understand what's happened to the team over the past 14 years.
How many NFL coaches are truly better than Tomlin?
Maybe 5? My opinion, no particular order:
  • Andy Reid
  • Kyle Shanahan
  • Kevin O'Connell
  • Sean McVay
  • Jim Harbaugh
I am convinced that the majority of "great" coaches owe a ton to their QB and that the best coaches make do with whatever QB they have. Reid won with Alex Smith before Mahomes, Shanahan has won a lot of games with Brock Purdy and Jimmy G, Kevin O'Connell is winning with Darnold, McVay TBD because both Goff and Stafford have had decent success, and Jim Harbaugh for his work with San Fran.
I'm not convinced John Harbaugh or Sean McDermott are better, they just have great QBs and solid OCs. Nick Sirianni, maybe, I didn't think Hurts would be great and he's finding ways to win/build a team around him. Dan Campbell, I think the wheels fall off when his coordinators leave after a year or so.

IMO this is basically the Andy Reid situation all over again. We don't have the team ready to compete for a Super Bowl, but I think Tomlin will have success elsewhere if he keeps coaching, but the Steelers may need to shake things up. If we're keeping Tomlin, we need to get another shot at QB ASAP, but the problem is that the crop isn't amazing this year. Best bet would probably be a ****ty year next year and draft a QB high in 2026. Only way that happens is if Omar Khan trades away all our best players. I think if we still have Cam and Watt they won't let our team have a top 10 pick.
 
Now that I’ve had a couple days to reflect on everything and watch the other teams in the playoffs, I’ve come to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter much who the coach is until they get a stud QB.

Look at the style the Eagles, Bills, and Ravens play. I don't think the Steelers philosophy is that far off.

I expect Austin and Meyer to be gone. Maybe Azzanni too.

Never getting a real #2 WR was a problem all season. Our guys are either not talented enough to get open, or the scheme wasn't right. OLine should be a strength of this team when healthy. Can Jones improve and play LT with better coaching?
 
or the scheme wasn't right.
I am firmly in the camp that this scheme is guilty of a lot of the blame for the lack of continuity on offense. Tomlin has opted in and allows it though so he also is culpable.

Look at a team like the Bills, who have very very little at wide receiver, but you see those guys coming wiiiiide a$$$$ open for them. That ain't Allen, or at least not just Allen, that is scheme. Joe Brady has come up with new ways to get his crappy wide receivers open for his stud quarterback, pretty much, on the fly this year.

The Steelers haven't had anybody who would even remotely be able to try to do that since Bruce Arians "got retired" for allegedly being too buddy buddy with the quarterback
 
My biggest question at this point is: if they aren't going to move on from Tomlin, and they aren't going to change how they draft/develop players, and they aren't going to change their offensive or defensive philosophy...then what ARE they going to do?

(Jk... that's basically rhetorical. I already know the answer: they will win between 8 and 11 games every season and get rolled in the Wild Card round of the playoffs when they do manage to make it in )
 
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or the scheme wasn't right.
I am firmly in the camp that this scheme is guilty of a lot of the blame for the lack of continuity on offense. Tomlin has opted in and allows it though so he also is culpable.

Look at a team like the Bills, who have very very little at wide receiver, but you see those guys coming wiiiiide a$$$$ open for them. That ain't Allen, or at least not just Allen, that is scheme. Joe Brady has come up with new ways to get his crappy wide receivers open for his stud quarterback, pretty much, on the fly this year.

The Steelers haven't had anybody who would even remotely be able to try to do that since Bruce Arians "got retired" for allegedly being too buddy buddy with the quarterback
I think this is true on Offense and Defense. Lack of ingenuity and predictability are the main issues. The Ravens were in their locker room laughing about how they knew exactly what our defense was doing on most plays. Also, it feels like all of our defensive units are operating on their own and without coordination.

The team wasn't doing Run-Run-Pass on Saturday, but it still feels like our pass catchers are never open and that the scheme isn't helping them get open.

I'm willing to give Arthur Smith another shot with a 2nd WR and improved offensive line, but I'm ready to move on from (or demote) Teryl Austin. I'm not sure how much control he actually has over the defense, but Khan should replace him and give the new DC autonomy (if that's at all possible).

I think the best bet for this team over the next decade is if Khan is given more control and some control is taken away from Tomlin. Be the HC but let the coordinators run their groups.
 
Also, it feels like all of our defensive units are operating on their own and without coordination.

On at least three talking head shows this morning, different ex-NFL players made some kind of mention about (paraphrasing) "All you have to do to the Steelers' defense is run motion, and then any kind of gap contain falls apart."

That sounds like a discipline issue, and that's coaching.

Goat-toof'd Shannon Sharpe brought up the same kinda thing on Saturday/Sunday on his show. "Ravens just ran simple inside zone runs all night outta motion. Steelers committed to crashing down on Henry....and kept doing it the whole game even after the Ravens countered."

That sounds like a playcalling/adjustment issue, which is again coaching.
 
Saturday was the second time the Steelers have given up more than 290 rushing yards in a game (regular season or playoff) since 1955

The only other was Week 2 in 1975 when OJ Simpson rushed 28 times for 227 yards (including an 88-yard TD) as the Bills ran for 310 yards. Amazing that the Bills were able to do that to the Steel Curtain Defense
 
Now that I’ve had a couple days to reflect on everything and watch the other teams in the playoffs, I’ve come to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter much who the coach is until they get a stud QB.

Look at the style the Eagles, Bills, and Ravens play. I don't think the Steelers philosophy is that far off.

I expect Austin and Meyer to be gone. Maybe Azzanni too.

Never getting a real #2 WR was a problem all season. Our guys are either not talented enough to get open, or the scheme wasn't right. OLine should be a strength of this team when healthy. Can Jones improve and play LT with better coaching?
But they have two of the three best QBs in the league and PHI has a fantastic defense and the best RB. The philosophy might be similar (though I don’t really agree with that notion) but the key personell is vastly different.
 
Saturday was the second time the Steelers have given up more than 290 rushing yards in a game (regular season or playoff) since 1955

The only other was Week 2 in 1975 when OJ Simpson rushed 28 times for 227 yards (including an 88-yard TD) as the Bills ran for 310 yards. Amazing that the Bills were able to do that to the Steel Curtain Defense
Steelers are softer than Charmin tissue both sides of the ball.
 
So much focus on the offense, yet it's the defense that absolutely gets stomped on every single playoff game. The fact the plays haven't changed in the past 18 seasons tells us all we need to know.

“I’m just doing what the game plan asked for,” said Watt when asked about his role and why the run defense faltered in a big way. “That’s all I’ll say.”​


This same D gameplan was giving up over 350 yards and 30+ pts even when Ben was here for playoff games.
 

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