If the Lions were smart they would pay Ben Johnson about $2 million to stay as offensive coordinator, and make him by far the highest paid OC. That may be enough to keep him around a couple more seasons before he dips his toe into a HC position. A safe $2 million in a position where you are set up to succeed versus the massive headaches of an HC job.
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2025 Detroit Lions: 2-1 Lions beat Ravens (36 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
So if you are 4th and 5th alternates that mean 4-5 players have to bail on game to get in? kind of a joke.
They should have first and second team All-Pros and then just add players after that.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
@NFLRookieWatxh
Most sacks by rookies this season:
Aidan Hutchinson 7
James Houston IV 5
Travon Walker 3.5
George Karlaftis 3.5
Kayvon Thibodeaux 3
Lions rookie James Houston can become first player ever with sacks in his first five games
Most sacks by rookies this season:
Aidan Hutchinson 7
James Houston IV 5
Travon Walker 3.5
George Karlaftis 3.5
Kayvon Thibodeaux 3
Lions rookie James Houston can become first player ever with sacks in his first five games
Jamaal Williams will be back - he's not going to get a big bag of money anywhere else, the coaches love him, and he seems to love it here.
Chark is interesting, and pretty much a win-win. I don't think he's done enough to get a huge contract offer, but wrs are in high demand. If he leaves, we'll get a nice compensatory pick out if it.
I can't imagine Evan Brown not getting a big contract offer, so he's probably gone. But, again, should be a nice compensatory pick.
It would be really nice to start getting compensatory picks after losing depth pieces, instead of when the top players on the team leave.
Chark is interesting, and pretty much a win-win. I don't think he's done enough to get a huge contract offer, but wrs are in high demand. If he leaves, we'll get a nice compensatory pick out if it.
I can't imagine Evan Brown not getting a big contract offer, so he's probably gone. But, again, should be a nice compensatory pick.
It would be really nice to start getting compensatory picks after losing depth pieces, instead of when the top players on the team leave.
TartanLion
Footballguy
The other thing is … Chark is really good, imo. The injury first half of this season has potentially kept his value depreciated.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Jamo & Chark on the outside and St. Brown in the slot is a good trio.
And Reynolds, Raymond, and Cephus give us solid depth. It is easily our 2nd best position group behind the OL. And our DL has moved firmly into 3rd, which is the biggest reason for the Lions turn around.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
He's good but inconsistent, although you could say the same about a lot of WR. I would comp him to Corey Davis on the Jets. These guys belong on a roster, but they should have better career numbers by this point.
TartanLion
Footballguy
Inconsistently fit maybe. Last season I’m sure he had 2 good games out of 3 then broke his ankle. This season ok first game, injuries and out for a while comes back and has been good. I think if he’s fit and has a proper run he puts up good numbers generally
rockaction
Footballguy
I don't mean to single you out or pick on you, but I totally disagree about comparing the two. Maybe they're close in free agent value, but I doubt it. Their play style is very different. Davis is not a deep threat, and thrives in schemes where he's called upon to block in the run game. He's valuable in that sense. It makes sense for him to be on the Jets and the Titans. But he's a pure WR2 in that he needs an alpha out there to get open consistently. Chark is much more talented than Davis -- he's faster, runs better routes, and has better hands -- but he has been derailed by bad quarterbacking in JAX and injuries lately. Chark is a true deep threat with excellent hands. Davis is an intermediate possession guy with blocking chops.
Now, I have little to say about Chark's role with the Lions going forward because they're obviously invested in Williams and Reynolds is a capable replacement for Chark should Chark leave. Reynolds would be cheaper than Chark to retain and the drop-off isn't huge. So I don't know about Chark moving forward, but I know that he's not comparable to Corey Davis in terms of style of play and even potentially free agent value because of the fact that teams reward deep threats with the purse rather than intermediate possession guys.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Looking at NFL QBs I would rather have than Goff:
Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Hurts, Burrow, Lamar, Lawrence, Fields for sure. Probably Dak. Maybe Cousins and Tua. Maybe not.
For 1 season, I suppose Rodgers and Brady but I’m not sold on them having much left to give and I don’t think they fit with the Lions culture.
Lions are surprisingly in a decent spot at QB. I don’t think there’s any reason to take one of the flawed QBs at the top of this draft.
Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Hurts, Burrow, Lamar, Lawrence, Fields for sure. Probably Dak. Maybe Cousins and Tua. Maybe not.
For 1 season, I suppose Rodgers and Brady but I’m not sold on them having much left to give and I don’t think they fit with the Lions culture.
Lions are surprisingly in a decent spot at QB. I don’t think there’s any reason to take one of the flawed QBs at the top of this draft.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Goff is better than most think. but definitely cousins and Tua I’d add Carr, Geno and tannehill. So he’s basically mid pack to slightly below average starter. He’s flawed but there’s no huge rush to give up the farm or take a risk on a guy you don’t really love over a handful of top defenders you can line up with Hutch and dominate. I’d love to see Anderson across from Hutch, but it seems they won’t get that chance.
Realistically, the lions can beat any NFC team except probably San Fran. We haven’t been able to say that in quite some time.
I agree with your conclusion, but there is no way would I take Cousins or Fields over Goff. I am not even sure I would take Dak. Lamar's running ability makes him superior, but Goff is still a better passer and goes through his progressions better. That leaves 7 who I see are clearly better option than Goff. I think we use our late 2nd or 3rd round pick for a QB, as mostly a backup we can develop.
rockaction
Footballguy
Dak looks to me to be light years ahead of Goff. I say "looks to me" because I'm not a scout nor evaluator of the position, but to my eyes, and to great consensus, Dak is the better quarterback.
-OZ-
Footballguy
No offense but I think you’re using rose colored glasses if you think Goff is a top 10 QB.
rockaction
Footballguy
We're forgetting Deshaun Watson, Derek Carr (also a better QB, IMO), and Russell Wilson (aside from this year), Matt Stafford (if he's okay), etc.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I am looking at it from a GM's perspective. I would rather have Goff with his contract than Wilson and Watson with their contracts. Those guys have a lot of potential but also a lot of potential to ruin your team the next few years. You are probably right on Carr though I do wonder if his best years are behind him. I expected more from him this year. I don't think we see a healthy Stafford again.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I don't see how Tua is for sure ahead of Goff. Goff has had better seasons than Tua. Now we would say, "but Goff had a dream situation with a great play caller and weapons those years". To that I point to Hill, Waddle, McDaniel. Geno has outplayed Goff this season but Goff has a far superior track record to Geno. I am going to side with the larger sample size. I don't think Tannehill projects well the next few years. His best football is in the rear view mirror.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
It's nice for the Lions to have a QB with so much playoff experience. The rest of the team might feel some playoff jitters but for Goff, must win football is something he's very familiar with. Jared Goff has played in 5 playoff games... but he hasn't played very well in those 5 games. That's probably Goff in a nutshell. Can get you to the dance but can't seal the deal.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Definitely not forgetting Watson. I’d want nothing to do with him. I listed Carr. Wouldn’t want the others contracts.
I’ll take Tua for his age and contract.
We’ll see about Tannehill, you could very well be right but Goff’s best days are behind him too.
-OZ-
Footballguy
He does very well when not heavily pressured. Most good Playoff defenses apply good pressure.
rockaction
Footballguy
I have to admit, I wasn't playing GM or talking contracts here. The only thing I thought of is longevity, because Brady and Rodgers are also miles better than Goff.
Don't really want to muck up the DET thread too much, though. Best of luck tomorrow, fellas.
Don't really want to muck up the DET thread too much, though. Best of luck tomorrow, fellas.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yeah Russ/Watson/Stafford are a conversation in onto themselves.
Thanks, it's been awhile since there was a Christmas weekend Lions game worth watching.
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[icon]
Insoxicated
Have swift and Williams.
Williams obviously has been lagging.
Bit of a dog and considering starting swift and benching williams for Goodwin (WR SEA) for upside (vs cornering the DET backfield with both in flex spots)
What are the odds Williams bounces back and has a big week, or are we pretty sure swift is going to be the dominant breadwinner?
Williams obviously has been lagging.
Bit of a dog and considering starting swift and benching williams for Goodwin (WR SEA) for upside (vs cornering the DET backfield with both in flex spots)
What are the odds Williams bounces back and has a big week, or are we pretty sure swift is going to be the dominant breadwinner?
Williams might get you a TD or two, but more than 40 yards rushing is unlikely
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
A lot of talk about Goff without his replacement. Young will be gone and none of the others impress me. 2024 might have a better crop.
Moonlight
Footballguy
Carolina has been playing well on defense and we need to be careful in the kicking game as they have blocked three kicks.
Carolina has though given up plenty of points though when playing against the top offenses.
This could be a close scoring game. But If Lions can get an early lead Carolina may have difficulty keeping up.
Carolina has though given up plenty of points though when playing against the top offenses.
This could be a close scoring game. But If Lions can get an early lead Carolina may have difficulty keeping up.
Chaka
Footballguy
I think the debate begins at the Tua, Carr, Cousins, Tannehill level of QB (personally I would add Lamar to that group because I think people mistake fantasy production with NFL value).
Bottom line is Goff is somewhere in that tier of capable QBs who, likely won't carry a team a SB victory but are capable of managing/leading a team to one. Heck he's already taken one further than any of his comps. People conveniently forget that he was a straight up beast in 2018. Yeah, yeah supporting cast, coach blah blah blah that applies to every QB who ever led an NFL team.
People seem to think if you're QB isn't Mahomes or Allen they're a failure , those people are short sighted and reactionary. It's a team sport. It takes, at least, 53.
Side point, this is also the argument for why Favre is the most overrated QB in NFL history.
Chaka
Footballguy
Carolina is not going to be an easy out for the Lions. The Lions are playing strong football but they have been highly inconsistent on the road and the Panthers still control their playoff destiny.
The Lions should win this game going away but there's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip.
TartanLion
Footballguy
Honestly, and I’ll probably get flamed for this, but I’m becoming more and more of a fan of Levis. I just think QBs are still developing so much at that age, and surrounding talent and coaching is undervalued in terms of importance. Levis just did not have a good line or any weapons to write home about. We have the luxury of sitting someone ( which should always be the case, imo ), we have a good line with good weapons and a run game.
Levis has an absolute cannon of an arm. Probably instantly top 5 in NFL. Like all his tools, and I’d back to us to have him sit for a year and continue to develop him. Honestly think he could develop into something really good with improvement in decision making
Levis will probably go #1. If the Lions go QB with the 4th pick, he us the only one worth considering there. But the Lions are drafting defense and Levis will not be there.
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Statistically Goff is top 10 by virtually every QB metric there is. Yards, TDs, interceptions, taking sacks, QBR, completion percent. The problem is not rose colored glasses, the problem is Goff has been crapped on for two years and people refuse to see what their eyes and numbers tell them.
TartanLion
Footballguy
Not seen Levis mocked No.1 anywhere, but there are definitely warts to consider with all the QBs this year, and the physical worries about Bryce are a proper concern. Agree though, Levis probably sits in a tier where we won’t get him. I would like D to be taken with our top pick and he’ll be gone before our second one.
Going back to the Goff convo, the one name I’m surprised about that people are saying is clearly better than Goff, is Carr. Don’t see it myself.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Goff is producing and playing well largely because he has a top 5-8 offensive line. like most capable QBs in the “average Starter tier” he’s good with top level protection. Which is why I agreed there’s no rush to draft a guy unless there’s one you really like available without selling the farm.
I am not saying Goff is elite. But he is in that 10-13 category with Tannerhill, Carr, and Cousins. And out of those guys, I am happy to have Goff over any of those. There are 16 QB's in the NFL that Goff is clearly better than, so semantically I consider him above average. And the Lions are built for Goff to succeed. It is a good match.
Bozeman Bruiser
Footballguy
I have taken Amon-Ra for granted this season. To atone for this I shall pay my respects and show my gratitude to the Sun God this morning. I am willing to sacrifice my home team's playoff hopes in real football for my fantasy team's playoff advancement in fake football. If it is his will, may he have a 12/120/2 day.
This is Swift's week to shine. Williams almost certainly will get his TD, but not much more.
-OZ-
Footballguy
We agree on the key things here. Even the group he fits. I only count 10 starters he’s clearly better than, my grouping there is probably just larger.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
True but a bad QB can waste years and see a team miss their window. Jags, Colts, Broncos are recent examples
Down Under
Footballguy
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Turning point was the fumble when Lions were going in for a score. 14 point swing and huge momentum change.
If you can`t stop the run you better score TDs when you are inside the 10.
I bet the Jets would trade Zack Wilson for Sam Darnold right. Darnold looked really good today, good size, good arm and can run when needed.
If you can`t stop the run you better score TDs when you are inside the 10.
I bet the Jets would trade Zack Wilson for Sam Darnold right. Darnold looked really good today, good size, good arm and can run when needed.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
let’s just talk about the draft from now on
Moonlight
Footballguy
Game mike picked up Carolina fans chanting Same Old Lions, Same Old Lions.
You cant win every game but discouraging that Lions got rolled over. Statistics shown in game revealed that Carolina had run over other teams besides Lions in their wins. They were more physical.
You cant win every game but discouraging that Lions got rolled over. Statistics shown in game revealed that Carolina had run over other teams besides Lions in their wins. They were more physical.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Campbell said in the middle of the week:
“Panthers will bully you, they play a very physical style and they’re going to try to establish the run.”
Absolutely nothing special about Carolina’s scheme today. Just came out and smacked Detroit in the mouth.
They didn’t do anything unexpected today. They were up for the gane and we weren’t. Turn the page.
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