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2025 Detroit Lions: Game 1 Lions vs Packers. (31 Viewers)

Lol, no one said 0 - 16 and i never said tank. 
I just meant that was the logical conclusion of what you were saying. If your main goal is to get him fired, 0-16 would do it.

There is a time and place for everything, sometimes you have to take one step back to go forward. This is that time and almost everyone can see it. 
I think this is our main point of disagreement. Sometimes it's true, but other times taking one step back means you're just that much further behind (the Browns being the ultimate example). There are many paths to success.

I'm not even that big of a Caldwell fan, although I think he's a better coach than a lot of people give him credit for. I don't think he can take them to a Super Bowl (though it's certainly possible, given that he's done it before), I suspect he'll be fired in the next year or two, and when he is, I won't be too broken up about it. ButI think there's a tendency to treat a coaching change as a quick fix that will solve all the team's problems. I'm more concerned that Quinn has a strategy for turning the organization around. If that involves a new coach, fine. If he can do it with Caldwell, that's fine, too.

 
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I appreciate where you are coming from @zftcg- I have never been in agreement with fans (of any team) who start rooting for their team to tank a season. I wholeheartedly agree to build a winning culture you need effort at precisely when everyone else wants to give up: in the midst of a blowout, after you’ve been eliminated, when all reasonable hope is lost. That is the sort of things winning teams build upon. You go back to the Patriots 2014-15 Championship season, and Belichick says it was rooted in what he saw in the second half of their 27 point blowout loss to the Chiefs in Week 6. 

The call for Caldwell to be fired is not, IMHO, a quick fix. It’s simply a recognition that he cannot take the team further. There are basic schematic issues that need to be addressed, and those would best be resolved by changing the HC & coordinators. For all the praise heaped on JBC - and Stafford did become a better QB under him - the fact remains they’re a mediocre offense. They’ve improved in points scored over the prior season mainly because they have 7 non-offensive TDs. When NFL teams face 3rd and short - 3 yards or less - they’re successful 64% of the time. Detroit? 29% of the time.

Stafford is Top 7 in virtually every category except two: sacks (2nd worst behind only Brisset) and fumbles (7 fumbles lost, 6 on strip sacks - tied with Savage.) Both of those are, in my view, directly tied to the wacky, way too complex pass blocking schemes (I’ll try to find articles - it’s really weird how often guys in line are asked to move across the pocket to pick up blitzes, there’s nobody else in the league being successful with it.) 

The lack of preparedness to start games is astonishing. At least 4-5 games they were down 0-10 before they got untracked. They do have some talent issues on the D line and they’re not good in coverage at LB (with the exception of Tabor Whitehead, who switched from the middle & greatly improved in 2017.) No pass rush, so I get that Austin is hamstrung. Lot more emphasis on creating turnovers, more drills on tipped balls and strips, it’s evident making that a priority was a huge win for the defense this year. Still, I’m pulling hard for Terryl to get a HC gig. I think we need fresh ideas to rejuvenate this team.

 
I appreciate where you are coming from @zftcg- I have never been in agreement with fans (of any team) who start rooting for their team to tank a season. I wholeheartedly agree to build a winning culture you need effort at precisely when everyone else wants to give up: in the midst of a blowout, after you’ve been eliminated, when all reasonable hope is lost. That is the sort of things winning teams build upon. You go back to the Patriots 2014-15 Championship season, and Belichick says it was rooted in what he saw in the second half of their 27 point blowout loss to the Chiefs in Week 6. 

The call for Caldwell to be fired is not, IMHO, a quick fix. It’s simply a recognition that he cannot take the team further. There are basic schematic issues that need to be addressed, and those would best be resolved by changing the HC & coordinators. For all the praise heaped on JBC - and Stafford did become a better QB under him - the fact remains they’re a mediocre offense. They’ve improved in points scored over the prior season mainly because they have 7 non-offensive TDs. When NFL teams face 3rd and short - 3 yards or less - they’re successful 64% of the time. Detroit? 29% of the time.

Stafford is Top 7 in virtually every category except two: sacks (2nd worst behind only Brisset) and fumbles (7 fumbles lost, 6 on strip sacks - tied with Savage.) Both of those are, in my view, directly tied to the wacky, way too complex pass blocking schemes (I’ll try to find articles - it’s really weird how often guys in line are asked to move across the pocket to pick up blitzes, there’s nobody else in the league being successful with it.) 

The lack of preparedness to start games is astonishing. At least 4-5 games they were down 0-10 before they got untracked. They do have some talent issues on the D line and they’re not good in coverage at LB (with the exception of Tabor Whitehead, who switched from the middle & greatly improved in 2017.) No pass rush, so I get that Austin is hamstrung. Lot more emphasis on creating turnovers, more drills on tipped balls and strips, it’s evident making that a priority was a huge win for the defense this year. Still, I’m pulling hard for Terryl to get a HC gig. I think we need fresh ideas to rejuvenate this team.
All good points, but to me the #1 thing for any team that wants to win anything is to establish some sort of running game. Everything else automatically becomes better when you can run the ball & control the clock (Saints this year being a good example). This is a talent problem, and the main blame goes to both the current & previous GM.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/position/...

Others here have noted the playoff record & record vs. winning teams when it comes to both the HC & QB, but how many NFL coaches & QBs have won anything with the #31 running attack? See list below.

 
Maybe you don’t win that challenge but given the stakes, you have to throw the flag there. Not surprised Caldwell didn’t, though. 

 
Ouch. Embarrassing loss here with playoff hopes still alive.

What happened?

Looks like Bernard did well.

Did the Bengals get Kitpatrick back for this game? It looks like they did a decent job of stopping the Lions offense, or did the Lions stop themselves?

 
So fitting that they would lose to an injury depleted, Marvin Lewis coached Bengals team. I'm glad they did though. Now we don't have to watch them get blown out by the Rams in round 1. 

 
Same old Lions.

Is Caldwell done?
If he isn't everyone might as well just find a new team to root for, something is wrong with the coaching staff. Why can guys like Rieff and Warford go to new teams and be very good and suck here, but guys like T.J. Lang and Rick Wagner go from being great players to awful when they show up? How about Van Noy last year for the Patriots? I fully expect guys like Abdullah, Ebron, and others to leave and be productive players other places.

 
Bengals were the worst rushing team in the NFL coming in
It is even worse than that, I watched the Bengals the last couple weeks and they looked like a team that quit. They even looked like they quit in the 1st quarter of this game and then they realized that the Lions weren't going to put them away and they got life and only the Lions can give a team life after they have quit and let them win a game.

 
If Caldwell is not gone I’m done. He might have actually saved Marvin Lewis’ job by dong a better impersonation of Marvin Lewis than Lewis could do. 

I realize we could end up with something worse but I’m ready to take the risk. Today was pathetic. 

 
Opponents for our new coach:

HOME: Bears, Packers, Vikings, Rams, Panthers/Saints winner, Pats, Jets, Seahawks 

AWAY: Bears, Packers, Vikings, Cardinals, Bills, Cowboys, Dolphins, 49ers

 
If Caldwell is not gone I’m done. He might have actually saved Marvin Lewis’ job by dong a better impersonation of Marvin Lewis than Lewis could do. 

I realize we could end up with something worse but I’m ready to take the risk. Today was pathetic. 
They've sucked for 60 years, haven't won a playoff game since 1991, and that's what would finally cause you to give up?

 
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I'm guessing Caldwell will probably be gone, and I'm fine with that -- as @BobbyLayne says, he may have just taken the team as far as he can take it -- but I still want to hear what, beyond a new coach, is going to help this franchise finally remove its stink.

 
I'm guessing Caldwell will probably be gone, and I'm fine with that -- as @BobbyLayne says, he may have just taken the team as far as he can take it -- but I still want to hear what, beyond a new coach, is going to help this franchise finally remove its stink.
Make the playoffs ideally as the division winner and actually win a game. Would also help if they played well in regular season games vs good teams consistently.

They need to run the ball and stop the run along with getting more pressure on the QB if they want to be a playoff team.

 
ouch, looks like another 7 or 8 win season or 5-6 if Caldwell is still here.
See, this is why, even if I think Caldwell deserves to be fired, I still maintain that he's underrated.

Caldwell has had two losing seasons in his career as HC (vs. four winning seasons, likely a fifth after next week). One was when Peyton was injured and he had to start Curtis Painter and Kerry Collins as his QBs. The other was a 7-9 season when he lost two games on the final play/questionable calls. If this is his last season, he will be the most successful Lions coach of the last 50 years (low bar, but still).

I don't see how you can look back at the past three years and say the Lions have underachieved. The problem is that they've never, ever, overachieved. They never pull out a win against an elite team when you don't expect them to. They never have a statement game where they stomp a rival the way LAR did at Seattle last week. They basically haven't done that since the Dallas playoff game in '91. That's what needs to change. What I fear is that, being the Lions, they'll do a Millen-style teardown and we'll look back wistfully on Caldwell and think, "At least he made the playoffs."

 
See, this is why, even if I think Caldwell deserves to be fired, I still maintain that he's underrated.

Caldwell has had two losing seasons in his career as HC (vs. four winning seasons, likely a fifth after next week). One was when Peyton was injured and he had to start Curtis Painter and Kerry Collins as his QBs. The other was a 7-9 season when he lost two games on the final play/questionable calls. If this is his last season, he will be the most successful Lions coach of the last 50 years (low bar, but still).

I don't see how you can look back at the past three years and say the Lions have underachieved. The problem is that they've never, ever, overachieved. They never pull out a win against an elite team when you don't expect them to. They never have a statement game where they stomp a rival the way LAR did at Seattle last week. They basically haven't done that since the Dallas playoff game in '91. That's what needs to change. What I fear is that, being the Lions, they'll do a Millen-style teardown and we'll look back wistfully on Caldwell and think, "At least he made the playoffs."
They can't overachieve because Caldwell is far too risk adverse. And yes they have underachieved. Not all wins or loses are created equally. And if you break down Caldwell's record, game by game as Lions HC, the quality wins are just not there. He loses to good teams 95% of the time and gets outcoached most of the time as well. The roster is also part of the problem, but he is another HC that does the least with the most. You could give him a top 5 roster with a bottom 5 schedule and he would still underachieve.

 
Make the playoffs ideally as the division winner and actually win a game. Would also help if they played well in regular season games vs good teams consistently.

They need to run the ball and stop the run along with getting more pressure on the QB if they want to be a playoff team.
I agree. There have been two seasons under Caldwell (including this one) where the Lions have been gifted a path to win the division. And they just couldn't do it. And they never will with this HC and this roster. 

 
They can't overachieve because Caldwell is far too risk adverse. And yes they have underachieved. Not all wins or loses are created equally. And if you break down Caldwell's record, game by game as Lions HC, the quality wins are just not there. He loses to good teams 95% of the time and gets outcoached most of the time as well. The roster is also part of the problem, but he is another HC that does the least with the most. You could give him a top 5 roster with a bottom 5 schedule and he would still underachieve.
He had a top 5 roster his first year in Indy and he went to the Super Bowl.

 
He had a top 5 roster his first year in Indy and he went to the Super Bowl.
And he lost as a 5 pt favorite with Peyton Manning in his prime. They had the lead at halftime too. Guy got outcoached by Sean Payton who had some of the gutsiest playcalling you will ever see in a Superbowl. And that's my point. He almost always gets outcoached. He needs the best team just to barely win.

 
Opponents for our new coach:

HOME: Bears, Packers, Vikings, Rams, Panthers/Saints winner, Pats, Jets, Seahawks 

AWAY: Bears, Packers, Vikings, Cardinals, Bills, Cowboys, Dolphins, 49ers
Yeah, that looks like a year where you hope for 3-5 at home and go around 4-4 on the road.

Most likely hosting the Pats on Turkey Day unless the NFL schedules them to be on 12 other times.  

 
I agree. There have been two seasons under Caldwell (including this one) where the Lions have been gifted a path to win the division. And they just couldn't do it. And they never will with this HC and this roster. 
To give the Lions (but not necessarily Caldwell) a sliver of credit, a year where they would've had to win 11-12 games to take the division is not exactly an easy path. The point is well made though: great chance to at least make the playoffs (if likely to lose by 30) and they fall short. Simply a mediocre team coming up (just) short to good ones but feasting on weaker ones -- usually.

 
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And he lost as a 5 pt favorite with Peyton Manning in his prime. They had the lead at halftime too. Guy got outcoached by Sean Payton who had some of the gutsiest playcalling you will ever see in a Superbowl. And that's my point. He almost always gets outcoached. He needs the best team just to barely win.
Nonetheless, I don't think any team other than the '07 Pats has ever considered a season where they made the Super Bowl to be an underachievement.

 
PFF TOP 5 GRADES from @CIN loss:

Edge Dwight Freeney, 83.0 overall grade

LB Jarrad Davis, 82.2 overall grade

DI Akeem Spence, 79.9 overall grade

QB Matt Stafford, 79.7 overall grade

Edge Ziggy Ansah, 79.2 overall grade

PERFORMANCES OF NOTE:

QB MATT STAFFORD, 79.7 OVERALL GRADE

The stat line didn’t flatter Stafford by any means, but it’s hard to call him the reason Detroit lost this one. His interception came as he was hit, and he suffered from two crucial drops on third down from his receivers.

G DON BARCLAY, 28.2 OVERALL GRADE

Barclay single-handedly derailed the Lions’ offense at times in this one. He had two false starts, allowed five total pressures, and was the lowest-graded player in the entire game.

CB DARIUS SLAY, 61.4 OVERALL GRADE

Slay vs. A.J. Green was must-see TV. Both got their shots, as Slay broke up two passes and forced an offensive pass interference on another. At the same time, Slay yielded 81 yards on 6-of-9 targets and missed two tackles while covering Green. 

DE DWIGHT FREENEY, 83.0 OVERALL GRADE

On only 18 pass rushes, Freeney put on the clinic for Clint Boling. He went to the inside spin move twice, and it worked both times for a hit and a hurry. 

 
To give the Lions (but not necessarily Caldwell) a sliver of credit, a year where they would've had to win 11-12 games to take the division is not exactly an easy path. The point is well made though: great chance to at least make the playoffs (if likely to lose by 30) and they fall short. Simply a mediocre team coming up (just) short to good ones but feasting on weaker ones -- usually.
This team did not really underachieve until they lost to Cincinnati. 

 
Has Jim Caldwell under or over achieved? Well, let's look at the body of work.

2014

First off, let's recognize how sorry the history of this franchise has been. 11-5 might be a ho hum season if you're New England, Pittsburgh, or Green Bay, but around here it's exceedingly rare: 1962, 1991, and 2014. Signature win: week 3 over the Packers at Ford Field. Embarrassing loss: 14-17 at home to the Bills two weeks later, who carried former Lions HC Jim Swartz (DC) off the field. Won all the games they should have: swept the Bears & Vikings, beat the other mediocre/lousy AFC East teams, beat a bad Saints team at home, squeaked by a mediocre Falcons team on the road. When they faced tough playoff caliber teams, they predictably lost, and it usually wasn't close: @ CAR, @ ARI, @ NE, and @ GB to end the season with the NFC North crown on the line. In the WC Playoff Round, blew a 13 point lead - largest blown lead in franchise history for a playoff game. Give them credit for taking care of business versus bad teams, but at no point did it seem like they were capable of a deep run. There are deep psychological issues to this franchise that seems to transcend who the current coach or players may be; put another way, same old Lions. 11-5, first round exit

2015

Faced with a challenging schedule to begin the season, the Lions folded. Things started promising: early in the road opener at San Diego, Ameer Abdullah took his first NFL touch 24 yards for a TD. The Lions blew an 18 point lead - the third biggest blown lead in their 82 year history in Detroit. Following that came a 10 point loss @ MIN, a 12 point loss to DEN (Slay gave up a horrible long TD to D Thomas late in the first half), and then the MNF batted ball debacle at Seattle. They lost their will after that: 17-42 blowout to ARI at home, barely won in OT v. the Bears, Vikings completed their sweep. On the way to London to play the Chiefs they fired OC Joe Lombardi, the O-line coach, and the strength & conditioning coach. After a 10-45 embarrassment and a bye week, Jim Bob Cooter started to simplify the offense. They won in Lambeau 18-16 for the first time in 24 years, starting a 3 game win streak. A week after Thanksgiving they blew a 23-3 lead at home versus the Packers in the phantom face mask / hail mary game (with Ansah helplessly guarding the sidelines, rushing 3 and not enough men deep because they thought GB would run a second straight Stanford band lateral scramble.) After losing @ STL to Jeff Fisher, they won three meaningless games against losing teams. 7-9, missed the playoffs

Megatron retires (MJJ signs? not quite an equivalency eh)

2016

After starting 1-3, Darius Slay single handedly took over the game in the closing minutes with a forced fumble and interception to steal a win in Philadelphia. What followed was an amazing series of comeback wins, marred only by a flat performance loss at HOU as they won 8 of 9. Those early games foreshadowed what a fragile team it was: they blew a 14-0 lead in Indy, winning 39-35 when Stafford engineered a 3-play, 33 second drive that led to a Prater FG (safety on the last play of the game.) They led the Titans 12-0 and somehow lost 15-16. They were down 31-3 at Green Bay in the first half before coming back to make the final score 27-34. They lost in Chicago 14-17 when the offense failed to score a TD. They actually led the Eagles 21-10 at the half before - in a familiar pattern of the Caldwell/JBC era - they turtled up in the second half. The Eagles were trying to run out the clock when Big Play forced a Matthews fumble, and he sealed it with an interception after Prater put them ahead. After a comeback win at home versus the Rams, the Lions blew a 13-3 lead versus the Redskins. With 1:05 to play, Stafford took them 75 yards in 6 plays. Two weeks later @ MIN, Stafford got the ball back with 23 seconds and no time outs, but somehow got two completions to setup a 58 yarder by Prater. Tate's 28 yard in OT won the game. By the time they beat the Vikings on Thanksgiving, they had set NFL records by trailing 11 straight games, having 11 straight games decided by 7 points or less, and posted 7 comeback wins. After an easy win @ NO, they posted their 8th comeback win of the season versus the Bears. They gave up less than 20 or fewer points 8 straight games, the longest streak since 1961. Stafford tore a ligament in his throwing hand @ CHI. The Lions lost their last 3 games (@ NYG, @ DAL on MNF, GB on SNF) and got blown out in the playoffs. The entire season is summed up by Prater being clutch and Stafford in the first 12 games: 3,224 Yards, 21 TDs, 5 INTs, 67.5 Comp. Percentage, 101.5 QB Rating. In the last 4 while playing hurt: 1,103 Yards, 3 TDs, 5 INTs, 60.4 Comp. Percentage, 74 QB Rating. 9-7, first round exit

2017

Rather than go blow by blow, let's summarize this season by looking back at the season with 20-20 hindsight of knowing which teams are bad and which teams are playoff caliber:

  • ARI, @ NYG, @ GB (no Rodgers), CLE, @ CHI, @ TB, CHI, @ CIN - give them credit, when they should have won, they did. 7-1 in these games, only lost in the lackluster Week 16 against the Bengals.
  • versus playoff-bound teams: other than the great defensive effort in the 14-7 win @ MIN, they lost every time. They lost close ones (heartbreaker to ATL, the not-as-close-as-the-score @ CAR, the weird blowout to the Saints, the SNF coming out for JuJu PIT game, Thanksgiving Day versus the division champs, the blowout to the Ravens - pretty much every time they had a chance to make a statement, they failed. 1-6 against good teams.


Give Coach Caldwell full credit for a very good first season; on a historical basis relative to the Lions modest history, one of the most successful seasons ever.

Year two was a disaster. While they went 6-2 in the second half, what lingered is two of the four biggest blown leads in franchise history. He also gets credit for the biggest blown lead in team playoff history.

Year three was an amazing season of overachievement. Was that the result of coaching? IDK, I tend to think the bulk of that is Stafford being amazing in the last 4 minutes, and Prater being nails when they need him to be. I give Caldwell full credit for the blown leads: @ IND, TEN, PHI, WAS. It was a fun year, but they ended with four straight losses to good but hardly great teams.

Year four: what I'll remember most is how often they were unprepared at the start of games. I think it was 3 or 4 straight games they were down 0-10 before they finally unshackled Stafford. The playcalling was utterly predictable. No team had less success on first down, and their short yardage offense was pathetic. Stafford played great at times, but he got pounded all year. Lost an uncharacteristically high number of fumbles on strip sacks. The defense's emphasis on turnovers led to 5 TDs and Agnew took back 2 PRs, somewhat masking how poorly the offense achieved most weeks. The O-line had lots of injuries (as did the D-line before the season began), but so did the Ravens and they're headed to the playoffs. Injuries are not the whole story with the line play; to me, and I could be wrong, it feels like every week we are at a schematic disadvantage. How can you get beat by a career Y TE who has never had a 100 yard game going 5-175? By completely selling out to the run. How do you give up 200+ yards to the Bears and the Browns back to back weeks (& still win  :lmao:  )? Who gets beat by the Ravens play-action - only Detroit. 

TL: DR

We should hire a new HC.

 
Opponents for our new coach:

HOME: Bears, Packers, Vikings, Rams, Panthers/Saints winner, Pats, Jets, Seahawks 

AWAY: Bears, Packers, Vikings, Cardinals, Bills, Cowboys, Dolphins, 49ers
Actually I think that as the 2nd place team they get the loser of that game, not that it means that much either way going by this year's results.

 
This team did not really underachieve until they lost to Cincinnati. 
The one thing that Caldwell is good at is creating smoke & mirrors to fool people into thinking he's not doing a bad job. His self admitted philosophy of trying to keep the game close and eak out a win has you fooled. it's ok, he's used this to keep his job for quite a while now. There's a reason they can't beat above 500 teams and can beat the weaker ones. Caldwell. The team is actually good enough to beat above .500 teams but he stops them from doing so.

 
I trust bob quinn. I think he’s made good decisions so far, including keeping Caldwell and the continuity. If he decides to keep Caldwell, on let’s add some pieces and give it another go. If we have a new coach, fine, let’s embrace that and go forward. 

I think as lions fans we are pretty quick to go from cheering our team on to screaming for their heads. Talk radio will talk about how rudock is better than Stafford. Our fans will boo the second the team makes a mistake. We’ve been through a lot but we need to get/stay behind the team if they will ever have a chance to win. 

 
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Detroit sports talk radio and Motown sports writers have a long history of negativity: Caputo, the late Drew Sharp, Rob Parker, Valenti, Terry Foster. Most of the sports writers these days are meat & potatoes guys, although I kind of like Carlos Monarrez. The radio guys all want to to be Stephen A or they’re bland like Samuelson. Has Detroit sports radio been any fun since the end of Stoney & Wojo? Sheesh, that was 8-1/2 years ago.

(my view from afar - you guys live there, you tell me.)

I know print is dead but man when I was growing up we actually looked forward to what Joe Falls had to say. Little guy was alright when he was young & hungry but I don’t even think he watches sports anymore. 

You know who never goes negative? Kyle Meinke. I like his quirky music references & his analysis is solid without any hyperbole. And he’s been ranting the last few days. When you’ve sent a guy like that over the edge, it’s time for a change.

4 Things Bob Quinn Must Do


Fire Jim Caldwell. There is nowhere else to start but here. He was given a second chance after the 1-7 start in 2015, and a third chance after the 0-4 collapse in 2016. How many more chances does he need? How many more seasons? He's already been given four, which is an eternity in the NFL. And the Lions still look no closer to winning something -- anything -- than they did in 2014. Bob Quinn has spent two high draft picks on the left side of the offensive line, and handed out two big contracts on the right side, and that unit was worse than ever in 2017. Caldwell talks every year about being committed to the run, and every year, it has ranked among the five worst. This year, it has been the worst. That isn't a personnel issue. After four years of failure, it's a coaching issue. And if Caldwell doesn't have answers by now, what gives anyone confidence that Year 5 will suddenly be it?

Fix the running game. The numbers speak for themselves. The Lions have finished no better than 28th on the ground since Caldwell's arrival. They're the only team averaging fewer than 80 yards per game this year, and are on pace to finish dead last for the second time in three years. When they've needed 1 or 2 yards on third or fourth down, their running backs have moved the chains a preposterous 29 percent of the time. Nobody else is below 45 percent. The league average is 64 percent. Again, preposterous. Just laughably bad. And it has handcuffed the offense. They had eight third downs of 3 or fewer yards against Cincinnati, and passed on six of them. They had four fourth-and-1s in the first three quarters, and punted or attempted field goals every time. This is just absurd, and until it's fixed, Detroit will never fully tap into the potential of Matthew Stafford. Whether it comes in the form of a running back or an offensive lineman or perhaps a scheme change up front, Quinn must deliver.

Repair the defensive line. Quinn chose not to address the glaring depth issues in the pass rush last offseason, and it became part of Detroit's undoing. Ezekiel Ansah does have nine sacks, although that has to be one of the most misleading stats of the season. Six came in two games, and he did little more than occupy space in the other 13. He's gotten a piece of a sack in just seven games the last two years combined. Now Quinn has the unenviable task of deciding whether to ante up for another go at it in 2018, or cut his losses and move on -- but risk Ansah explodes somewhere else. Regardless of how that plays out, Quinn must acquire some bite for his toothless pass rush. 

Make a decision on Eric Ebron. Along with Ansah, this will be Bob Quinn's toughest personnel decision. He's already picked up the $8.25 million option for 2018, but it's guaranteed only for injury. In other words, Quinn could move on at no cost if that's what he wants. And with the way things stood at the trade deadline, that outcome seemed likeliest. But Ebron has been on a tear in the eight games since, catching 37 of his 48 targets for 405 yards and three touchdowns. Extrapolate that for a full season, and you're talking about the third most prolific tight end in the league, behind only Rob Gronkowski and Travis Kelce. But Ebron has also never played like this for eight straight games before, let alone 16. So Quinn has a $8.25 million gamble on his hands -- roll with Ebron, hoping he is here to stay. Or move on, and figure out how to replace a guy who has suddenly become one of Matthew Stafford's most dangerous weapons -- and risk Ebron becomes a star someplace else.
 
I haven’t lived in the Detroit area for awhile, but on the west side of the state we get the “huge show”. That guy is just plain dumb. He just constantly plugs his sponsors, which is why his show is successful I guess. But he’s pretty terrible, and he constantly rags on the lions. He’s just terrible. 

 
The passivity of Lions management, coaches and yes even many of their fans is a major reason why the Lions do not win. W.C. Ford built a culture of losing and accepting poor performance as long as he liked the coach or GM personally. Many fans over time became resigned to accepting poor performance because they recognized that the Fords were incapable of competence or more accurately accountability.

A franchise that would accept Matt Millen's fraudulent incompetent performance for 8 years is worthy of contempt and ridicule. Wiki refers to Millen as the worst or one of the worst GMs in the modern history of sports. Many fans called out for boycotts and marches to get the Fords attention to fire Millen but yet were criticized by other passive fans for not supporting their team.

I'm concerned that this same passivity is now being displayed by some fans and perhaps by management regarding Caldwell. I do not see any spark, ability to beat the good teams, or ability to adapt to changing circumstances. The Lions have one of the better QBs to build around who I think carried them last year to many 4th quarter victories. One of these days Stafford is going to realize like Sanders and Johnson that it is better to retire than continue playing for a franchise not committed to winning. 

 
I'm guessing Caldwell will probably be gone, and I'm fine with that -- as @BobbyLayne says, he may have just taken the team as far as he can take it -- but I still want to hear what, beyond a new coach, is going to help this franchise finally remove its stink.
What's Barry Sanders up to? 

 
I know this sounds crazy but I would take Jim Schwartz back.  Schwartz was fiery, tough, the players liked him and in reality easily could have gone 9-7, 10-6 in his last season but Stafford played horribly down the stretch to finish 7-9. Caldwell took over a team with a veteran QB and with talent.  Schwartz took over an 0-16 team with a rookie QB.

Schwartz will probably get a HC job this off-season and will be better than the first time around as he is a smart guy and a respected coach in this league.

Lions will keep Ebron as his play down the stretch probably earned him another season. Stafford in reality is not a top 10 QB but more in the 10-15 range yet he is the highest paid played in the NFL.  Need top 5-10 production out of him.  Big disappointments were TJ Lang and Wagner who both played below their previous abilities, while Rief and Warford went to other teams and excelled. Puzzling...Coaching??

 
Zigg said:
What's Barry Sanders up to? 
Racking up advertising money for divorce lawyers (Cordell & Cordell) and Rocket Mortgage (Quicken Loans).

Also very busy recruiting Amazon to bring their new headquarters to Detroit.

 
I know this sounds crazy but I would take Jim Schwartz back.  Schwartz was fiery, tough, the players liked him and in reality easily could have gone 9-7, 10-6 in his last season but Stafford played horribly down the stretch to finish 7-9. Caldwell took over a team with a veteran QB and with talent.  Schwartz took over an 0-16 team with a rookie QB.

Schwartz will probably get a HC job this off-season and will be better than the first time around as he is a smart guy and a respected coach in this league.

Lions will keep Ebron as his play down the stretch probably earned him another season. Stafford in reality is not a top 10 QB but more in the 10-15 range yet he is the highest paid played in the NFL.  Need top 5-10 production out of him.  Big disappointments were TJ Lang and Wagner who both played below their previous abilities, while Rief and Warford went to other teams and excelled. Puzzling...Coaching??
I think Stafford is easily in the top 10 QBs right now, or at worst that he is not the limiting factor in Detroit's QB production.

 
I know this sounds crazy but I would take Jim Schwartz back.  Schwartz was fiery, tough, the players liked him and in reality easily could have gone 9-7, 10-6 in his last season but Stafford played horribly down the stretch to finish 7-9. Caldwell took over a team with a veteran QB and with talent.  Schwartz took over an 0-16 team with a rookie QB.

Schwartz will probably get a HC job this off-season and will be better than the first time around as he is a smart guy and a respected coach in this league.

Lions will keep Ebron as his play down the stretch probably earned him another season. Stafford in reality is not a top 10 QB but more in the 10-15 range yet he is the highest paid played in the NFL.  Need top 5-10 production out of him.  Big disappointments were TJ Lang and Wagner who both played below their previous abilities, while Rief and Warford went to other teams and excelled. Puzzling...Coaching??
That whole fiery coach thing is over rated. Will he be a decent coach if he gets another chance? Maybe. I think Stafford is easily a top 10 qb, I think the play calling holds him back because phyically he is the probably the most gifted qb in the league outside of Rodgers. 

The fans over think the highest paid crap, before Stafford was the highest paid it was Carr, every time a franchise qb signs a new deal they are going to be the highest paid. 

I completely agree with your take on the new guys on the line vs. the guys from last year. 

 
BobbyLayne said:
Detroit sports talk radio and Motown sports writers have a long history of negativity: Caputo, the late Drew Sharp, Rob Parker, Valenti, Terry Foster. Most of the sports writers these days are meat & potatoes guys, although I kind of like Carlos Monarrez. The radio guys all want to to be Stephen A or they’re bland like Samuelson. Has Detroit sports radio been any fun since the end of Stoney & Wojo? Sheesh, that was 8-1/2 years ago.
It seems like ever since 97.1 went on the air a few years ago every team in Detroit has tanked. Good for their business model I guess. :shrug:

 
I know this sounds crazy but I would take Jim Schwartz back.  Schwartz was fiery, tough, the players liked him and in reality easily could have gone 9-7, 10-6 in his last season but Stafford played horribly down the stretch to finish 7-9. Caldwell took over a team with a veteran QB and with talent.  Schwartz took over an 0-16 team with a rookie QB.

Schwartz will probably get a HC job this off-season and will be better than the first time around as he is a smart guy and a respected coach in this league.

Lions will keep Ebron as his play down the stretch probably earned him another season. Stafford in reality is not a top 10 QB but more in the 10-15 range yet he is the highest paid played in the NFL.  Need top 5-10 production out of him.  Big disappointments were TJ Lang and Wagner who both played below their previous abilities, while Rief and Warford went to other teams and excelled. Puzzling...Coaching??
You're right. It sounds crazy.  :P

It does sound like Schwartz will get another shot somewhere, and maybe he's learned from his experience. But the way he went out in Detroit left a really bad taste in my mouth, and I suspect many others', too. His fiery schtick got old, and it really felt like he had lost the team by the end of the '13 season. (Also, this is petty, but I really hated that he asked his players to carry him off the field when the Bills beat the Lions the following year. Really? You got five seasons with the team and went 29-51, including an epic collapse. What right do you have to hold a grudge?)

Finally, the optics would be terrible. Management wants to demonstrate to fans that they get it, that the Lions will finally turn around their culture and reverse six decades of haplessness. So they turn around and hire a guy who already botched the job once?

 

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