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2025 Detroit Lions: Game 1 Lions vs Packers. (33 Viewers)

I would try to get Matt Patricia. This guy seems legit.
Don't know about Patricia in particular, but I do wonder if the fact that so many Belichick disciples have failed as HCs is more than a coincidence. I think O'Brien (31-32, one playoff victory) has the best record of any of them.

That said, given that the trend this offseason will almost certainly be chasing after hot OCs in order to land the "next McVay", I kind of like the contrarian play. Of course, being the Lions they'll probably end up chasing the fad to its logical extreme and hiring Sarkisian or McAdoo  :bag:

 
Could say the same of Teryl Austin.
Pulling hard for him. I actually think it’ll be good for him to be in a different environment. I like his personality & think he’ll be a good HC.

How many RB coaches have gotten HC jobs? Anthony Lynn is the only one I can think of. He started out last year as Buffalo's RBC, got promoted to OC mid-season and was then hired as LAC's HC this year.
Arians started out as a RBs coach, couple other guys have the title on their resume. But seems like the dominant paths for most HCs are WRs/QBs/OC guys or a series of defensive position jobs followed by stints as DC. Reid is an exception, he had a long assistant career as O-line coach.

 
With a win Sunday the Lions will finish over .500 for the 17th time since 1962.

The Pats have had 17 consecutive winning seasons.

 
Don't know about Patricia in particular, but I do wonder if the fact that so many Belichick disciples have failed as HCs is more than a coincidence. I think O'Brien (31-32, one playoff victory) has the best record of any of them.

That said, given that the trend this offseason will almost certainly be chasing after hot OCs in order to land the "next McVay", I kind of like the contrarian play. Of course, being the Lions they'll probably end up chasing the fad to its logical extreme and hiring Sarkisian or McAdoo  :bag:
I think the main reason so many Belichick disciples failed is because Tom Brady didn't go with them. That's why I don't want McDaniels. But there is something about Matt Patricia that seems legit. 

 
With a win Sunday the Lions will finish over .500 for the 17th time since 1962.

The Pats have had 17 consecutive winning seasons.
If you count the Lions last playoff win in 1991 and go from there, there are 22 teams that have as many super bowl appearances as we have playoff wins, 12 of them have been more than once and  7 of them have won more super bowls than the Lions have won playoff games. So sad. 

 
If you count the Lions last playoff win in 1991 and go from there, there are 22 teams that have as many super bowl appearances as we have playoff wins, 12 of them have been more than once and  7 of them have won more super bowls than the Lions have won playoff games. So sad. 
I have played in as many Super Bowls as the Lions and Browns combined.

(I mean, we could literally play this game all day.)

 
If you count the Lions last playoff win in 1991 and go from there, there are 22 teams that have as many super bowl appearances as we have playoff wins, 12 of them have been more than once and  7 of them have won more super bowls than the Lions have won playoff games. So sad. 
As pathetic as their history is, the last 7 years (56-55, .505, 3 WC) have been a huge jump from the first decade of the millennium. I mean, Marinelli went 0–16 with a winning percentage of .208 - which isn’t even their worst stretch. Marty Morningwig went .156! How do they have any fans left after going 39-121 (.241) in the ten years after Ross quit?

I thought it was rough when the Tigers finished last b2b in 1974-75, but Fidrych came along to make it fun again. Took awhile, but you knew with Trammel, Whitaker, Morris, & Gibson they were headed in the right direction.

It took the Dead Wings two decades to recover from Darkness with Harkness. The Pistons never won anything with Bing & Lanier. It was slow progression for Yzerman and Thomas but so sweet when it finally happened.

Stafford’s numbers are meaningless, same as Stevie or Isaiah. The only thing that matters from a legacy standpoint is division titles & playoff wins.

I have played in as many Super Bowls as the Lions and Browns combined.

(I mean, we could literally play this game all day.)
Amazing that 13 teams have never won a Super Bowl. Almost half the league.

 
You're right. It sounds crazy.  :P

It does sound like Schwartz will get another shot somewhere, and maybe he's learned from his experience. But the way he went out in Detroit left a really bad taste in my mouth, and I suspect many others', too. His fiery schtick got old, and it really felt like he had lost the team by the end of the '13 season. (Also, this is petty, but I really hated that he asked his players to carry him off the field when the Bills beat the Lions the following year. Really? You got five seasons with the team and went 29-51, including an epic collapse. What right do you have to hold a grudge?)

Finally, the optics would be terrible. Management wants to demonstrate to fans that they get it, that the Lions will finally turn around their culture and reverse six decades of haplessness. So they turn around and hire a guy who already botched the job once?
I know it will ever happen, hell Caldwell might be here 5 more years or until Martha passes

 
I think the main reason so many Belichick disciples failed is because Tom Brady didn't go with them. That's why I don't want McDaniels. But there is something about Matt Patricia that seems legit. 
Very good point about HCs and their QBs. Lets not forget when Caldwell's best years were and who his HOF QB was during that time as HC.

 
The Lions under Schwartz were undisciplined, constantly committing boneheaded penalties, cheap shots and fines. He was a hothead who couldn't control his emotions and the locker reflected his personality. Their 575 penalties 2009-2013 were second only to the Raiders. To say he was a better HC than Caldwell is unsupported by reality. He exceeded Coach Caldwell's worst season exactly once in the five years he was in Detroit. In his last two seasons the Lions finished 0-8 and 1-6 down the stretch. How anyone looks back at that wistfully defies explanation. In the 4th quarter of 2013, Stafford had a completion percentage of 36.9, five interceptions and a 31.5 passer rating.

2011 was a terrific accomplishment - the first winning season in 11 years. By the time he was done only three players remained from the 0-16 team, which was a good thing. Think about taking over an 0-16 team that had been run into the ground for 8 years by Matt Millen. Who wants that job? Nobody. He changed the culture of a team that had no clue how to be competitive. While 29-51 is lousy no matter how you slice it, overall Schwartz left the Lions in better shape than the team that draft Matthew Stafford in his first season as HC.

What areas of the Lions going into 2018 are better off than four years ago? Not too many.

Quarterback - Stafford is a better player today than he was when Caldwell arrived, but let's not forget what a terrible OC Joe Lombardi was. Since mid-2015 Stafford is much more efficient. With slightly lower volume - but still averaging 600 PA and 4300 yards - he has topped 65% completion percentage, and in virtually every category he's post 3 of his best 4 season 2015-17. There is one notable exception: every season 2014-2017 resulted in more sacks than his three full seasons as a starter under Schwartz. All that said, the play calling is conservative, particularly early in games. It's only when they've fallen behind they unshackle him. Or, in another common scenario played out often the last four seasons, the Lions come out aggressive but turtle up once they are up by two scores. Stafford is the team's best weapon. Why let the other team off the hook? Keep the pressure up. Hopefully the next coach will find a way to bring back a bit of the gunslinger.

Running Back - obviously the team has regressed; no back under Caldwell has ever had a 100 yard rusher or 1,000 yard season, bottom 5 every season. But Stafford is ending season number nine having only had 7 100 yard rushers and 1 1K season RB. Schwartz's Lions were bottom ten all but his last season (17th), but this is an area that Caldwell and his staff have failed at despite repeated promises they were committed to improvement. Seems like they left their best one cut runner (Tion Green) in street clothes most weeks.

Wide Receivers & Tight End - Megatron, Burleson, Pettigrew, et al versus Tate, MJJ, Ebron, et al. Considering how great of a player Calvin was, we're not actually in that bad fo shape here. Golladay was strictly go routes the first 3/4s of the season (and dealt with lingering injuries) but they've expanded his route tree. Can't say we're better but this isn't really an area of weakness.

Offensive Line - 100% turnover from Reiff - Sims - Raiola - Warford - Waddle to Decker - Dahl - Glasgow - Lang - Wagner. Every one fo those guys ranks 30th or worse at their position according to PFF. Worst run blocking unit in the league and only Jacoby Brissett got sacked more than Stafford. It's not a talent issue IMO. Decker is a legit 1st round pick who will have that job as long as he's healthy. Quinn invested two Day 2 picks and two pricey FA contracts to build this line. Swanson likely won't play another down in the NFL. Need some depth but I think with a different scheme this group could be decent. But as of today, we're a lot worse off than we were four years ago.

Defensive Line - much worse off. Fairly was inconsistent but so is Robinson. Suh was a thug but he was a good player; our run D fell apart when Ngata went down, and he's probably done.. Young and Ansah were raw, and today we have Zettel (good in spurts) and Ansah (2-3 good games, invisible the rest of the year.) The number one area which needs to be addressed in the offseason iMO.

Linebackers - Levy was just coming into his own four years ago, Like Tulloch he wasn't the same after he got hurt. Davis improved in run defense but along with Reeves-Maybin was often out of position. Both rookies were below average and disappointing. Whitehead bounced back this year after being terrible in 2016. I can't remember Worrilow making a play all year. Last year they were the worst LB group in the NFL, and there's not much to be hopeful about in 2018 unless the young guys get coached up. 

Defensive Backs - This is the strength of the team. Slay had an amazing year, leading the league in interceptions and passes defended. He's not perfect but that was a great long term deal to get done. Quinn should have been a Pro Bowler. Diggs was decent in the slot but has been outstanding as a SS since Wilson got hurt. Killebrew regressed a lot this year, Tabor has been coming on. This should be a good group again in 2018. Definitely a better group than Houston-Matthis-Delmas IMO. 

Special Teams - Prater is great, as was Agnew. Martin had too many bad punts after he came off IR. I know statistically the latter is one of the best in Lions history, but I don't know if I'll ever forgive him for the 10 yard shank after the flag was picked up in the Cowboys playoff game. And last week after the non-challenge on the incompletion to Tate, he had poor 30 yarder. You just can't choke when the team needs you. Anyway, this area is much improved IMO.

Intangibles - In summary, after four years we are getting better play (but less playmaking?) from the franchise QB, the DBs are better, the Special Teams have improved to become one of the league's best. The offensive skill positions, both lines and the linebacking corps are all worse. Most disturbing to me is Coach Caldwell has not changed the fragility of the franchises psyche. It's impossible trying to explain to fans from other cities how snake bit this team is, and it is incomprehensible it continues. These are not the same men who choked away game after game in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, but here we are. We lead Dallas 20-7 in a playoff game and never score again. We lead the Packers at home 23-3 and get beat on a ridiculous Hail Mary. The Detroit Lions have taught an entire generation numerous obscure rules: The Schwartz challenge on Thanksgiving (unchallengeable, play stands), completing the process (8 full seasons of the Calvin Johnson rule and nobody knows what a catch is anymore), the batted ball rule (oh! NOW everyone knows the rule), ten second runoffs. It's amazing how we never catch a break. Fans refer to this amazing history as "same old Lions." I hate that phrase. The guy that buries that one forever is going to have streets named after him and they'll put his statue outside Ford Field.

Now, I give Coach Caldwell credit for doing a great job at things that most (virtually all) NFL fans don't appreciate. He is a great administrator, he brought in a capable DC, he eventually found an OC who was competent - though the bloom is definitely off JBC these days. Teams take on the personality of their coach, and this Lions team is calm under pressure. Probably too calm, but the players make fewer dumb mistakes. In terms of yards penalized, they had the 11th fewest on offense and 9th fewest on defense. Can't fault the players for things like giving up the most important TD of the season with 10 men on the field (& a crucial first down the following week with 9 on D.) But you do have to question how strong the staff is when it comes to positional coaches and scheme. There's a talent deficit on the front 7, but honestly, it seems like they have enough talent on the O-line but they don't have a clue how to block effectively to get a single yard. They don't need Todd Gurley; a one cut guy with decent size/speed combo (Collins/Hunt type player) who doesn't go down on first contact will suffice.

TL; DR

We should hire a new coach.

 
Well if they do fire caldwell. I hope the pats make it to the Superbowl so it's harder to hire McDaniel or Patricia'  beard....not coaching material either one of them imo......

 
Da Guru said:
Caldwell was very good as Mannings assistant. Without Manning 2-14
When Caldwell wanted to run on 2nd & 9 and 3rd & 5, Manning said #### you, I'm passing for a 1st down.

 
Intangibles - In summary, after four years we are getting better play (but less playmaking?) from the franchise QB, the DBs are better, the Special Teams have improved to become one of the league's best. The offensive skill positions, both lines and the linebacking corps are all worse. Most disturbing to me is Coach Caldwell has not changed the fragility of the franchises psyche. It's impossible trying to explain to fans from other cities how snake bit this team is, and it is incomprehensible it continues. These are not the same men who choked away game after game in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, but here we are. We lead Dallas 20-7 in a playoff game and never score again. We lead the Packers at home 23-3 and get beat on a ridiculous Hail Mary. The Detroit Lions have taught an entire generation numerous obscure rules: The Schwartz challenge on Thanksgiving (unchallengeable, play stands), completing the process (8 full seasons of the Calvin Johnson rule and nobody knows what a catch is anymore), the batted ball rule (oh! NOW everyone knows the rule), ten second runoffs. It's amazing how we never catch a break. Fans refer to this amazing history as "same old Lions." I hate that phrase. The guy that buries that one forever is going to have streets named after him and they'll put his statue outside Ford Field.
Bobby, I think you absolutely nailed it here. If you grade on a curve, Caldwell has been the best Lions coach in recent memory. He's made them competitive every year (I'm old enough to remember, even in the Barry Sanders era, when 5-11 seasons were a common occurrence) and that's not something we should sneeze at.

But he hasn't changed the franchise's DNA. I mean, that's a silly notion if you think about it. In terms of roster, coaches, front office, etc., the 2017 Lions have no more in common with the 2000 Lions than they do with the 2000 Packers. And yet the pattern of being, at best, a "good-bad" team that can beat up on sub-.500 teams before topping out in the wildcard round has persisted for too long to be a coincidence.

But neither is it impossible to change. The pre-Noll Steelers and the pre-Belichick Pats had long stretches of haplessness. Bill Simmons talks about how weird the Tuck Rule game was for him as a Pats fan, because up until that moment those had been the type of calls that always went against them.

So yeah, I've come around to the notion that Caldwell needs to go. I have no idea what will ultimately help the Lions break the cycle, but they have to keep trying.

Question for you, though: Given that thorough overview you just provided, do you think the Caldwell hire was a mistake? As I recall, at the time the Lions wanted Whisenhunt, and he rejected them to go to Tenn, where he flamed out in less than two seasons. You could argue that he would have done better in Detroit, because he was always better helping a veteran QB elevate his game than nurturing a rookie (plus he had already demonstrated the ability to turn around a sad-sack franchise and make it a Super Bowl contender). But anyway, he turned down the Lions, not the other way around, so ultimately he wasn't an option. I don't remember who else was still out there when they chose Caldwell, but I don't think there were any McVay types. (Looking at this list, the other coaches hired that year were Zimmer, Gruden, Pettine, O'Brien, and Lovie Smith. Zimmer is obviously the biggest success, but IIRC the Lions never had a shot at him. The following year saw Fox, Ryan, Bowles, Quinn, Kubiak, JDR and Tomsula get hired. Again, no breakout stars. Maybe if they had had enough foresight, they could have grabbed Quinn and Shanahan a year before the Falcons did).

Anyway, in the (admittedly unlikely) scenario where the Lions find a superstar with their next coaching hire, I think it's conceivable that we could look back on Caldwell the way we do Ray Perkins with the early '80s Giants or Mora with the early '00s Colts: The bridge coach who helped restore some respectability before giving way to a more talented HC who turned them into consistent winners.

 
If the Lions do not bring Caldwell back will he get hired as HC for another NFL team ever? My feeling is no. I do not think Caldwell would have been hired as a HC for ny other team if the Lions hired Whiz in 2014.

Tony Dungy was the man behind both HC jobs Caldwell got. Lions are so inept they asked Dungy to help in the search.  Nobody was considering Caldwell but of course Dungy recommended Caldwell.   The Ravens at the time were going to demote Caldwell from OC or let him go.  That is why the Lions hired him before that happened.

I think Caldwell is a good coach, a good football man, just don`t think he is a good HC but would be a good associate HC.

 
@zftcg - I think a lot of times North American team franchises try to go in the opposite direction with their next coach. Like (dating myself here) if you’ve got a team of vets who have a “players coach” maybe you bring in a fiery guy to squeeze a year or two more out of the run: Billy Martin, Doug Collins, Mike Keenan, Tom Couglin (the latter contrasted with Jim Fassel.) Or they go from an offensive minded coach to a defensive guy.

From that perspective, Caldwell was the right hire. We went from a hot-tempered DC to a placid OC. I think Wiz was a guy fans liked s lot - he was widely reported as the front runner - & they never interviewed him. Might have been some support for Lovie, maybe some liked O’Brien, pretty sure Kubiak interviewed, I don’t recall anyone thinking Zimmer was someone we should have gone after. Coach Caldwell seemed like the guy who fulfilled the letter of the Rooney Rule, nobody thought he was a serious candidate. They couldn’t interview Wisenhunt because of the playoffs & then the Titans got to him first.

One thing I remember about Mayhew is he was always so confident even when he was dead wrong. We made the Ebron pick 30 seconds after we went on the clock. There’s 4-1/2 minutes left guys, do we want to trade down, maybe think about Aaron Donald, anybody like OBJ - nah, we good, that kid who has problems with drops & can’t block is the 10th pick of the draft. So when Wiz signed without even talking to Detroit, the Lions moved quickly to sign Caldwell. Baltimore’s run game was a disaster under him & he was likely going to be fired as OC.

I think we’ve all known a Mayhew at work, right?

Anyway, the last hire was made primarily to find a coach who would take Stafford from gunslinger to a well rounded quarterback. Moderately successful in that regard, but this staff hasn’t really solidified his legacy. So again, I think from a particular perspective, good hire. But now I think the smart move would be to tack - thus, Patricia.

Recently I looked back at some preseason projections. Most had the Lions winning 5-7 games. Titans were a popular sleeper pick to win the AFC South, Oakland would win the West, Packers would once again dominate the NFC North, Dallas was the favorite to win the East, Eagles would battle the Giants for a Wild Care spot, and two things everyone knew: the Jags & Rams are definitely going to suck again. Things change fast in the NFL.

 
If the Lions do not bring Caldwell back will he get hired as HC for another NFL team ever? My feeling is no. I do not think Caldwell would have been hired as a HC for ny other team if the Lions hired Whiz in 2014.
I mean, based on history, being Lions coach is the kiss of death in terms of ever getting another HC job in the league. Hasn't happened in 60 years (although Schwartz could break that streak next month).

Tony Dungy was the man behind both HC jobs Caldwell got. Lions are so inept they asked Dungy to help in the search.  Nobody was considering Caldwell but of course Dungy recommended Caldwell.   The Ravens at the time were going to demote Caldwell from OC or let him go.  That is why the Lions hired him before that happened.
Why do you think asking Dungy is a sign of ineptness? And what do you mean by "of course Dungy recommended Caldwell"?

My memory from the time was that Caldwell made a strong impression in the interview by presenting a detailed analysis of Stafford's 2013 season and how he would help him improve, and also that Peyton's recommendation carried a lot of weight

 
@zftcg - I think a lot of times North American team franchises try to go in the opposite direction with their next coach. Like (dating myself here) if you’ve got a team of vets who have a “players coach” maybe you bring in a fiery guy to squeeze a year or two more out of the run: Billy Martin, Doug Collins, Mike Keenan, Tom Couglin (the latter contrasted with Jim Fassel.) Or they go from an offensive minded coach to a defensive guy.
One of my favorite expressions (applicable in many situations) is "After a fat pope, a lean pope." 

 
I mean, based on history, being Lions coach is the kiss of death in terms of ever getting another HC job in the league. Hasn't happened in 60 years (although Schwartz could break that streak next month).

Why do you think asking Dungy is a sign of ineptness? And what do you mean by "of course Dungy recommended Caldwell"?

My memory from the time was that Caldwell made a strong impression in the interview by presenting a detailed analysis of Stafford's 2013 season and how he would help him improve, and also that Peyton's recommendation carried a lot of weight
Caldwell was not going to be hired by the Colts..Dungy lobbied for him as his replacement.  Caldwell was not going to be hired by the Lions, Dungy lobbied hard for him.

Ineptness?  The Lions have not won a championship in 60 years, have not won a playoff game in 27 years.  They had the most inept GM in the history of the NFL in Matt Millen and kept extending him. Then when they finally got rid of him years too late they hired Millen's protégé Mayhew who sat next to him every draft.

That is the definition of ineptness.

 
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Caldwell was not going to be hired by the Colts..Dungy lobbied for him as his replacement.  Caldwell was not going to be hired by the Lions, Dungy lobbied hard for him.

Ineptness?  The Lions have not won a championship in 60 years, they have 1 playoff win in 60 years.  They had the most inept GM in the history of the NFL in Matt Millen and kept extending him. Then when they finally got rid of him years too late they hired Millen's protégé Mayhew who sat next to him every draft.

That is the definition of ineptness.
I didn't mean, "Why do you think the Lions are inept?" I think we are all well-versed on that subject. I meant why is asking a respected former coach to help with a HC search a sign of ineptness? It happens all the time across the league.

 
The way it was explained at the time the conversation started out “Any interest in coming out of retirement?” to which he said no, and they touched on a range of subjects.

His guidelines (to WCF, not Mathew) before they started the search:

Before the hiring, it is clear that Dungy had a heavy influence over Lions owner William Clay Ford and the team's brass selecting Caldwell. 

"One time we had a phone conversation and we just talked about what they were looking for," Dungy said. "I really talked more to Mr. Ford about (Pittsburgh Steelers chairman) Dan Rooney and the way Dan went about his search. Dan's hired three coaches in 40-some years. They haven't been big-name guys when they've been hired, but they fit the profile of what he was looking for, and that's all I told Bill. 

"I said, I think, from talking to Martin, 'You've got a profile. You know what you're looking for. Get the guy who fits that. Don't worry about what the media thinks, what the fans think, what anybody else thinks. Fill your profile and you're going to be fine,' and I think that's exactly what they've done."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000313621/article/tony-dungy-lions-contacted-me-before-jim-caldwell
 
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Dungy got interviewed a ton after the hire (naturally) & defended Caldwell but I don’t think he’s the reason he got hired. He came in having broken down all 634 pass attempts & said he can fix Stafford’s mechanics. Have to admit the footwork and decision improved a lot from his early years.

Before they hired Quinn, IIRC Martha reached out to the league for guidance on who could be a consultant. My recollection is Ernie Aacorsi was involved (he’s working with the Giants in their current search.) The Fords are not footballl people - and we’re not certain Mrs Ford knows which day it is - but at least they’re willing to admit they don’t know what they’re doing.  

I don’t think Rod Wood has much influence, he’s mainly around to report back to the family. My sense is Quinn has as much control as he needs, and I think the decision on Caldwell was made weeks ago. The leak that his extension was only for one guaranteed year with a team option after that was very intentional. (FWIW Schwartz had two years & $12M guaranteed left so it wasn’t going to be an impediment anyway.) 

 
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Anyway, the last hire was made primarily to find a coach who would take Stafford from gunslinger to a well rounded quarterback. Moderately successful in that regard, but this staff hasn’t really solidified his legacy. So again, I think from a particular perspective, good hire. But now I think the smart move would be to tack - thus, Patricia.
On Albert Breer's podcast, he suggested the Lions could hire Patricia but keep JBC and the offensive staff in place. That makes intuitive sense to me.

I still would love to see an analysis of why Belichick's previous assistants have done so terribly. Is it just bad luck? (And no, I don't buy the "Because they didn't have Brady" excuse. No one else has Brady, but plenty of former assistants to other coaches have transitioned successfully to being a HC.)

 
On Albert Breer's podcast, he suggested the Lions could hire Patricia but keep JBC and the offensive staff in place. That makes intuitive sense to me.

I still would love to see an analysis of why Belichick's previous assistants have done so terribly. Is it just bad luck? (And no, I don't buy the "Because they didn't have Brady" excuse. No one else has Brady, but plenty of former assistants to other coaches have transitioned successfully to being a HC.)
I don’t pay much attention to this stuff, but what’s the best all-time coaching tree? Seems like Parcels Giants staff and Holmgren’s Green Bay staff would be in the conversation. Not sure if it was the same for Bill Walsh’s 49ers.

Anyway, that was a thing at one time. Maybe it’s just a trend that’s run it’s course. Tomlin has been around forever - what’s his guy’s records? Andy Reid? Peyton, McCarthy, Harbough?

 
Going back a ways, Air Coryell has to rank with the West Coast offense as the most influential scheme. On defense, Tampa Bay’s Cover 2?

 
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If the Lions do not bring Caldwell back will he get hired as HC for another NFL team ever? My feeling is no. I do not think Caldwell would have been hired as a HC for ny other team if the Lions hired Whiz in 2014.

Tony Dungy was the man behind both HC jobs Caldwell got. Lions are so inept they asked Dungy to help in the search.  Nobody was considering Caldwell but of course Dungy recommended Caldwell.   The Ravens at the time were going to demote Caldwell from OC or let him go.  That is why the Lions hired him before that happened.

I think Caldwell is a good coach, a good football man, just don`t think he is a good HC but would be a good associate HC.
Has any Lions HC ever been hired as HC for any other team after leaving Lions?

 
TwinTurbo said:
Has any Lions HC ever been hired as HC for any other team after leaving Lions?
No

Looking back on Lions coaches had Joe Schmidt stayed the Lions may have had a much different past history.  Did not realize that Schmidt after a Pro-Bowl career and 2 Championships was the Lions HC at 35 and quit..not fired at 40.  Joe could have been our Chuck Knoll. 

Good history story for Lions fans.

 
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TwinTurbo said:
Has any Lions HC ever been hired as HC for any other team after leaving Lions?
No

Looking back on Lions coaches had Joe Schmidt stayed the Lions may have had a much different past history.  Did not realize that Schmidt after a Pro-Bowl career and 2 Championships was the Lions HC at 35 and quit..not fired at 40.  Joe could have been our Chuck Knoll. 

Good history story for Lions fans.
Since the Fords bought the team the team November 22, 1963 

(aside - not making that #### up; the S.O.B. signed the LOI papers about 90 minutes before JFK was shot)

no Lions HC took another HC job ANYWHERE until Ross went to West Point to coach Army. 

Good link, thanks @Da Guru. It is difficult to overstate the profound impact Russ Thomas as GM had on the franchises history. Imagine if the cost accountant - not the CFO, who might by some quirk have a smidgen of vision - imagine if the cost accountant oversaw the design team. That’s what it was like having a CPA being the GM for 22 years.

The only reason Matt Millen is reviled as the worst general manager in NFL history is because Thomas existed before the internet exploded.

Lost Biletnikoff & Hadl to CFL, almost lost Barry to the CFL

Dude was legendarily cheap. I don’t remember the CFL guys (I started rooting for them in Joe Schmidt’s first year, when Farr & Barney won ORotY and DRotY), but I know we almost lost Sims to the USFL’s Houston franchise. Had protracted holdout standoff’s with Lem Barney, Ron Jessie, Doug English, et al - he was hated by everyone inside & outside the organization. Gave Monte Clark control of personnel but then undermined him by alienating their stars in contract negotiations. He was a miserable man & the franchise took on a lingering air of gloom.

1980 article - starting QB Gary Daielson rips Russ Thomas

 
Looks like Schwartz will get another HC job this off-season.  Took 4 years to be De-Lionized.
Will be interesting to see if Schwartz learned from his Detroit experience or if he will be another one of those "great coordinator, bad coach" guys like Ray Rhodes, Gregg Williams, Wade Phillips and **** LeBeau. Call it the NFL's Peter Principle.

 
Since the Fords bought the team the team November 22, 1963 

(aside - not making that #### up; the S.O.B. signed the LOI papers about 90 minutes before JFK was shot)

no Lions HC took another HC job ANYWHERE until Ross went to West Point to coach Army. 

Good link, thanks @Da Guru. It is difficult to overstate the profound impact Russ Thomas as GM had on the franchises history. Imagine if the cost accountant - not the CFO, who might by some quirk have a smidgen of vision - imagine if the cost accountant oversaw the design team. That’s what it was like having a CPA being the GM for 22 years.

The only reason Matt Millen is reviled as the worst general manager in NFL history is because Thomas existed before the internet exploded.

Lost Biletnikoff & Hadl to CFL, almost lost Barry to the CFL

Dude was legendarily cheap. I don’t remember the CFL guys (I started rooting for them in Joe Schmidt’s first year, when Farr & Barney won ORotY and DRotY), but I know we almost lost Sims to the USFL’s Houston franchise. Had protracted holdout standoff’s with Lem Barney, Ron Jessie, Doug English, et al - he was hated by everyone inside & outside the organization. Gave Monte Clark control of personnel but then undermined him by alienating their stars in contract negotiations. He was a miserable man & the franchise took on a lingering air of gloom.

1980 article - starting QB Gary Daielson rips Russ Thomas
Another huge mistake was not keeping Gary Moeller over MM.

 
I don’t know who Chad Forbes of @nfldraftbrites is but he is reporting on Twitter Caldwell will be retained.

:rant:

I’m taking solace that he reported Peyton Manning was joining the Rams front office this spring and in September he reported Gronk was done for the year. No beat writers around Wayne/Oakland county are giving credence to his speculation.

 
NFL Films - Bill Bilichick visits Rick Forazano

New video that just came out of the Hoodie visiting his first NFL boss, who is now 89 years old. BB’s first full-time gig was as the Lions Special Teams coach in 1976. 

Barney went to his 7th Pro Bowl as a PR (pretty sure the first 6 were as a CB) but the kicking game was a disaster that year - final year for both Errol Mann and Herman Weaver. Both Barney and Weaver used to play on the Lions barnstorming basketball team that came to our high school every winter. Can’t believe such a thing existed but it was a different era, all the guys had offseason jobs.

(ASIDE - what makes me feel really old is today I realized Lem Barney is 72.)  :(

 
he is too much of a hot heat me thinks, you can show emotion but he was reckless. perhaps he learned from his ways....
He was..but the players always liked him and played hard.  I think he will be much better this time around..but hell he was pretty good for taking over an 0-16 team. Schwartz got crap for throwing the challenge flag but the NFL changed that stupid rule right after that.  If Stafford had not played so bad the last half of his final season Schwartz would have never been fired and probably extended for 4 years.

 
All I ask for is that Quinn is completely left to his own devices to ( hopefully ) get rid of Caldwell and whatever other coaches he wants, then make choices that represent his vision going forward. He's had a couple of years to draft now, whilst a previous regime HC continued to chug along at a fringe playoff level. It's the correct time for Quinn to get the guys he wants to hang his hat by, and follow that up with a strong third draft and a healthy amount of money to manoeuvre in the free agency market. 

I always thought that next season would the year that we could possibly be in a position to be pretty good personnel wise.  What I didn't 100% know then, that I know now, is that Caldwell and most likely his coordinators, are not the correct people to take us to the next level. This season was a bit of an eye opener in terms of what some other teams have achieved thus far with fresh coaching. 

 
 Kyle Meinke | kmeinke@mlive.com CLOSEEmail the authorFollow on Twitter

ALLEN PARK -- Jim Caldwell appears to be on his way out in Detroit.

NFL Network is reporting the Lions are expected to part with Caldwell after their season finale on Sunday against the Green Bay Packers, and singled out Patriots defensive coordinator Matt Patricia as a leader to replace him.

 
It would depend on the coach, as much as I love Bell and as good as he is, I think his patient style wouldn't work with some coaches philosophy. 
Tongue in cheek, he’ll likely get tagged.

ETA:even if they don’t franchise him again, it’s not a good use of cap space - he’s looking for 4/$60M with half of it guaranteed.

 
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