Desert_Power
Footballguy
Yeah. Dolphins beat writers seem to be pretty shameless mouthpieces for the organization. Moreso than other teams.
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2025 Miami Dolphins - Week 2; Time to burn it down? (24 Viewers)
- Thread starter SwampDawg
- Start date
Yeah. Dolphins beat writers seem to be pretty shameless mouthpieces for the organization. Moreso than other teams.
jtd13
Footballguy
I wouldn't be excited about Harbaugh, but that was my first thought when I saw the news. Sounds like that's not the direction.
I'm a Michigan State fan, and from that standpoint, I would like Harbaugh to remain at Michigan. It's not that I think he's a bad coach, but I think we've seen what he's going to be at Michigan, and things could be worse for other non tOSU Big Ten East teams at a school with Michigan's resources.
All I can say is you fire Flores after two winning seasons, but you kept Clueless Joe Philbin around for a third season when he should have been fired after Bullygate, and never even had one winning season. Makes sense to Stephen Ross at least. Why I stopped rooting for this team years ago.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
That was my first impression.
I don’t follow Miami closely. But with a lot of holes in their roster he had B2B winning seasons. Cupboard was bare when he arrived.
jtd13
Footballguy
Agree to disagree. Not sure watching live is a much better vantage point than watching on a screen, but I think Tua is going to be a successful NFL QB based on what I've seen. The bengals line is bad, but bound better than the embarrassment in Miami.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
I don’t know that it was a horrible decision since I don’t follow the Dolphins but I thought things were moving in the right direction in Miami. Interesting move by Miami for sure.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Doooood
they’d like to roast him on a spit. regardless of YE ranking you CAN NOT lose to Sparty or that school beneath us on the map. Every Michigander knows that whether they’re maize n blue or not.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I get that Tua is not all they’ve hoped for but dang…players come back from 1-7, play their ### off for the guy for 2+ months, and wake up to this the next day? That’s a pretty big matzo ball.
jtd13
Footballguy
Perhaps Ross feels he didn't fire Philbin quickly enough and doesn't want to repeat?
I don't get it either. I'm having trouble continuing to follow this team.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
The Fitzpatrick void in leadership along with reports about how KVN was taking the player sides and Flo didn't like that so he sent him packing after just 1 season.
Flo did not like vocal leaders on his team that would stand up to him.
Todem
Footballguy
Actually being at the stadium (I was 13 rows up from the field) allows me to see the entire play develop downfield.
I have seen a dozen plays where he simply misses wide open guys downfield becasue he simply won’t go downfield.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
The part of the story I didn't write was the verbal assault I received when I praised Harbaugh for getting to the Final 4 in Football, that was my first run in that things are not what they appear with him. I still think he's successful and i would want him coaching my team, it usually means you have winning seasons and if you are a losing franchise then you want to experience winning, it's pretty simple.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Todem is our resident season ticket holder or maybe he just gets cheapies in the parking lot outside but it sounds like he knows where he likes to sit.
-I know being at the games and having an aerial view of all 22 vs the follow the ball TV angle you get mostly at home, you can see lots of open WRs that run routes that will never see the light of day or a target in these cases, I believe you because we see it at home quite often on the replays.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Miami has tried 4x now unsuccessfully to hire an OC or DC or in Tony Sporano's case I think he was a Special Teams coach but going back to 2008, all of them have lasted about 3-4 years tops.
Nick Saban would be 5x unsuccessful with no NFL head Coaching experience but Nick was a head coach in college, most of the others were never a Head Coach and I think it takes a very special type of person to be an NFL Head Coach in 2022.
I would start with 2 coaches i can think of off the top of my head that have been to a Super Bowl in their coaching career, both of them had successful 2021 campaigns whether they were a head coach or not, both could likely be interviewed and Miami should be focused on finding someone with experience that these players will respect and not someone trying to act like a leader and learning on the fly, players like Xavien Howard will eat those soft serves for lunch and then we have to start dismantling the wrong players.
Harbaugh and Quinn should get interviews. I know many will laugh but Zimmer form Minnesota should be given a lengthy interview if he will even come down here and meet with us...and don't underestimate what a detriment it is having Stephen Ross as your owner, right @TripleThreat? We might not be able to even get the names we want to see interviewed. Many folks don't want to come here because it is dysfunctional and the owner is clueless.
Miami needs to find someone that already knows how to win even if the winning didn't continue on and on, there's a reason these guys might be available but it would help Miami if they had a strong head coach and that would also help with the $100M they will likely have to spend in the off season.
Nick Saban would be 5x unsuccessful with no NFL head Coaching experience but Nick was a head coach in college, most of the others were never a Head Coach and I think it takes a very special type of person to be an NFL Head Coach in 2022.
I would start with 2 coaches i can think of off the top of my head that have been to a Super Bowl in their coaching career, both of them had successful 2021 campaigns whether they were a head coach or not, both could likely be interviewed and Miami should be focused on finding someone with experience that these players will respect and not someone trying to act like a leader and learning on the fly, players like Xavien Howard will eat those soft serves for lunch and then we have to start dismantling the wrong players.
Harbaugh and Quinn should get interviews. I know many will laugh but Zimmer form Minnesota should be given a lengthy interview if he will even come down here and meet with us...and don't underestimate what a detriment it is having Stephen Ross as your owner, right @TripleThreat? We might not be able to even get the names we want to see interviewed. Many folks don't want to come here because it is dysfunctional and the owner is clueless.
Miami needs to find someone that already knows how to win even if the winning didn't continue on and on, there's a reason these guys might be available but it would help Miami if they had a strong head coach and that would also help with the $100M they will likely have to spend in the off season.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Speaking as a fan of another AFCE team, this strikes me as a really dumb decision. Flores put together back to back winning seasons with a roster that isn't exactly loaded with talent. His players seemed to play hard for him. Canning Flores while you keep the guy who makes questionable use of your team's draft capital seems like an exercise in looking for a fall guy.
I'd love to hire Flores if for some totally hypothetical reason my team needed a new defensive coordinator. But that's academic because Flores has a great shot at landing in another HC gig in the new few weeks anyway.
I'd love to hire Flores if for some totally hypothetical reason my team needed a new defensive coordinator. But that's academic because Flores has a great shot at landing in another HC gig in the new few weeks anyway.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
The reason I bring up Miami's free agency bonanza potentially is the type of players you can attract if they believe in the system and or the coach. Lot of guys don't want to be on a first time head coach when they get their big 2nd contract, they want stability and know if they do their job they're getting paid. New coaches like to reorganize the roster and even big name players can be traded on a dime when a new coach is introduced.
Miami needs to resist the Bienemy types and shoot for proven track record in the NFL.
Miami needs to resist the Bienemy types and shoot for proven track record in the NFL.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Michigan had nine coaches 1900-89 and every one of them is in the college HoF.
2 bowl wins in fifteen years is not something they’re accustomed to; Bo, Moeller & Carr won 15 in thirty-nine years.
The two guys preceding Harbough were the worst and 5th worst winning % in their 131 year history.
They’re spoiled. I’ve been a U of M fan my whole life but tbh I detest our fans. More entitled than NY Yankee fans.
________________
It’s been a long, long time since the Wolverines have been in the running for a national title. A one loss season is a major accomplishment but they are nowhere close to being in the same class as SEC powerhouse. Or tOSU.
Wonder if at some level Ross sees parallels between his alma mater and his NFL franchise. Coming up on a half century since their glory days. 1 SB appearance in the last forty-six seasons. Frustrating, eh Mr Ross.
Try 0/64 ####head.
Todem
Footballguy
There is something far more deeper going on here.
It screams Flores had a heavy hand in personnel decisions.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Greetings JB, welcome to the discussion today, the Miami Dolphins have fired Coach Flores and I know this was very early in the season and to put this in context, you were talking about 2-3 games into the season and it was a roller coaster.
-I can't speak for all Phins fans but I don't think many were talking about Flores being fired this morning.
-Feels like Ross carries both Grier and Tua's flag and will go down with the ship if he has to so it's wise to assume that the next Head Coach is going to be heavily influenced by the GM as to who they go out and hire even though I would have assumed he picked Flores.
In the end, even if fans were irrational early in the season, it looks like the passion managed to swing the owner's ear to let Flores go who Ross hand picked and who Ross gave a fully guaranteed 5 year deal so Flores is going to collect 2 more years of checks.
And that's where we are right now. Who do you think Miami should interview and who would you like to see them interview?
-OZ-
Footballguy
If there isn’t more to the story, Flores absolutely should be picked up for another HC gig. Denver, Chicago, maybe others would do well to give him a strong opportunity. (Probably not Chicago as they appear to want an offensive guy)
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Harbaugh did great with SF, in 4 years he was 49–22–1 (.688). He got fired after the 8-8 2014 season in which Kaepernick struggled and Willis got hurt. Does it get any better than that if you want experience and winning?
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I don't think Flores will be picked up for another HC gig right away, he will be interviewed for obvious reasons but I don't see anyone actually making him the offer.
SwampDawg
Footballguy
Caldwell and Harbaugh would be my top two choices. I don't see McDaniels even being interested given the lack of offensive talent. I could see Zimmer being interested given what the defense has if you wanted to stay a defense first team. If you are going all in on Watson then maybe Bill O'Brien, Watson seems to have always had good things to say about him. I think a first time coach yo are setting them up for failure trying to tip toe this QB situation.
Just a wild guess but Flores goes to Pittsburgh as assistant head coach and takes over in a couple years when Tomlin retires. Flores always reminded me of Tomlin light.
Just a wild guess but Flores goes to Pittsburgh as assistant head coach and takes over in a couple years when Tomlin retires. Flores always reminded me of Tomlin light.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
And I'm sure there will be folks who rip him to shreds before he would come here or after he might find his way here, I have my doubts but this would be a lot better than Meyer in Jax, people can disagree but he knows how to win and even if he flames out after 5 seasons, if he manages to get us into the Playoffs 2 of the next 3 years, I'll take it. We are one of the laughing stocks in all of football, we need to establish this place as a destination not a stop gap.
For sure. I was shocked to see the firing today.
I trust Jeff Darlington on this: https://twitter.com/JeffDarlington/status/1480550814003470338?s=20
For where to go, I truly don't know. I thought Flores had them going the right direction in the 2nd half of the season. Clearly, there are internal issues that need to be addressed so I'm not sure who would be best to fix those.
I always lean toward the offensive side so I'd rather see a move there. But at this point, who knows with Ross.
SwampDawg
Footballguy
If Grier and Ross let Flores override them coming off a 5-11 record and just his first year coaching and take Tua when they wanted Herbert then all the more reason Grier should be fired. First time coach with no back ground over rules GM and owner?
And while Herbert is likely better then Tua, he is going to be watching games from the same place next week, his couch. His numbers are more impressive then the way he played last night.
SwampDawg
Footballguy
Interesting read on Ross being an absentee owner https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/01/10/absentee-ownership-directly-contributes-to-weird-outcomes-like-the-firing-of-brian-flores/
Some good comments however as well, people get on Snyder and others as being too involved and not letting football people run the show. The day of the strong GM seems to be gone, I think at this point I prefer the next coach to be experienced and also be in charge of all player decisions. Get a GM like Joe Banner that is the numbers guy and works the cap.
Some good comments however as well, people get on Snyder and others as being too involved and not letting football people run the show. The day of the strong GM seems to be gone, I think at this point I prefer the next coach to be experienced and also be in charge of all player decisions. Get a GM like Joe Banner that is the numbers guy and works the cap.
Todem
Footballguy
I am just guessing......because I like many are a little surprised Flores was fired. I thought for sure Grier would be shown the door.
And while Herbert may be on the couch.....he is a far better QB than Tua will ever be and Herbert is only going to get better and better.....it’s a totally different level of QB. Tua is not even close in raw talent to Herbert.
Not even debatable. And oh.....Staley is the reason they are home for the post season. Some of the worst tactical game day coaching I have seen in a long time last night....just atrocious.
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Todem
Footballguy
Todem
Footballguy
Ross is hands off.....the issue is he has made all the wrong hires as history has shown.
Grier’s draft record speaks for itself. Some hits and a ton of misses. And the most important being QB.
2021 has turned out to be based off just one season a success with Long still TBD and Eichenberg IMO will continue to develop and be a solid pro.
The team is dysfunctional......here we go again with another rebuild.
SwampDawg
Footballguy
Only way I see you come out of this not looking like you are a bumbling idiot is you have a deal in place for Harbaugh and you somehow land Wilson or Rodgers or he takes a year to evaluate Tua and has freedom to do what he wants in 2023 or you are all in on getting Watson, believe he will be cleared and hire O'Brien. Only available coach I can see that could step into this team and hold it together is Caldwell. But I think you fight Minnesota and Jacksonville for him.
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Todem
Footballguy
I as a lifelong Dolphins fan am fine with all of the above.
I can see giving Tua one more year and we make the move in the 2023 draft to grab another potential franchise QB.
I can see them going hard after Wilson or Watson. I think Rodgers is staying in GB.
I can also easily see another veteran or a guy like Mayfield brought in to compete with Tua......thing is though you need an entirely different playbook for other QB's because what they run in Miami right now with Tua....is a pop gun offense that is seriously impaired. We have zero downfield threat in the passing game and in todays NFL...hell any NFL.....it can not work if you can’t ever have the threat of going over the top.
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SwampDawg
Footballguy
Ughh, I don't want to see Mayfield or another lower level QB brought in to compete. All you are doing is wasting more money on the position and either getting the same results or he tempts you just enough to give a long term deal and you get locked into them. If another team is letting them walk there is likely a reason. Get a difference maker, reboot and draft or stick it out another year while the new coach gets his footing.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Hello my fellow dolphins fans. Well, I did not expect this, but it makes a lot of sense.
1) Flo had one year left on his original 4 year deal, so you need to fish or cut bait, especially if you are looking for coordinators with a “lame duck” coach
2) Flo was a solid coach at the end of the season, but let’s face it, there were a lot of “in game” management decisions that made no sense. The time out in London vs Jax? The time out yesterday vs the pats where they then converted the third down? Starting brisette over tua vs Baltimore?
3) Stephen Ross can do what he wants. He owns the team and it is his money. Still, I think he is, what, 10 years in and seems like he has no clue what he is looking for, but it seems if your nose is brown enough you got yourself some job security here.
4) Tua and the coaching search: hard to say where this goes. Guys I’d like to see interviewed are harbaugh if he wants out of UM, Doug Peterson, Caldwell (I guess, but what did he ever accomplish in Detroit?) and then the coordinators (leftwich, bienemy, daboll). I’m not sure if Ross is the one in love w Tua but if so, I’d say the Watson deal is dead. Also, only a guy like harbaugh could get Aaron Rodgers or Wilson to come down here.
the only thing I hate about this move is our defense was pretty stellar. Now we are going to get a DC who will likely blow it all up and both sides of the ball will be in flux…
any chance Ross can make a deal w Mickey Arinson and put Riley in charge of both franchises?
1) Flo had one year left on his original 4 year deal, so you need to fish or cut bait, especially if you are looking for coordinators with a “lame duck” coach
2) Flo was a solid coach at the end of the season, but let’s face it, there were a lot of “in game” management decisions that made no sense. The time out in London vs Jax? The time out yesterday vs the pats where they then converted the third down? Starting brisette over tua vs Baltimore?
3) Stephen Ross can do what he wants. He owns the team and it is his money. Still, I think he is, what, 10 years in and seems like he has no clue what he is looking for, but it seems if your nose is brown enough you got yourself some job security here.
4) Tua and the coaching search: hard to say where this goes. Guys I’d like to see interviewed are harbaugh if he wants out of UM, Doug Peterson, Caldwell (I guess, but what did he ever accomplish in Detroit?) and then the coordinators (leftwich, bienemy, daboll). I’m not sure if Ross is the one in love w Tua but if so, I’d say the Watson deal is dead. Also, only a guy like harbaugh could get Aaron Rodgers or Wilson to come down here.
the only thing I hate about this move is our defense was pretty stellar. Now we are going to get a DC who will likely blow it all up and both sides of the ball will be in flux…
any chance Ross can make a deal w Mickey Arinson and put Riley in charge of both franchises?
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
As a Patriots fan who only pays peripheral attention to the inner workings of the other teams this was pretty surprising to me. Catching up on the thoughts in the thread is pretty interesting.
All I'll say is that just about every team wishes they had Herbert. I picked him up off waivers last year and rode him to the finals-- so I kind of became a fan. Like as in giddy schoolkid kind of fan. I'm glad to hear assessments that Mac looks better IRL than he does on my TV these past few weeks. I'd be pretty surprised if the Pats best the Bills next Saturday.
WRT the Phins, sorry to hear that your team is going back to the drawing board. I really thought you guys were going to be a threat. Tua and the Phins seem to torture us so it's always a little surprising to see them take a dump on the field against other mediocre teams. From our POV, seemed like your team was on the upswing and just had a couple of tough games.
Good luck.
And Flores, I'd take him back over Matt P 10/10.
All I'll say is that just about every team wishes they had Herbert. I picked him up off waivers last year and rode him to the finals-- so I kind of became a fan. Like as in giddy schoolkid kind of fan. I'm glad to hear assessments that Mac looks better IRL than he does on my TV these past few weeks. I'd be pretty surprised if the Pats best the Bills next Saturday.
WRT the Phins, sorry to hear that your team is going back to the drawing board. I really thought you guys were going to be a threat. Tua and the Phins seem to torture us so it's always a little surprising to see them take a dump on the field against other mediocre teams. From our POV, seemed like your team was on the upswing and just had a couple of tough games.
Good luck.
And Flores, I'd take him back over Matt P 10/10.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Worth remembering Grier has been in the front office since before Ross bought the team...
Todem
Footballguy
Mayfield will not cost us much at all in terms of salary. He was a year removed from leading his team into the post season in 2020. He played the entire year really hurt.
I think Cleveland is being dumb......they picked up his 5th year option and are looking to ship him. I would take a one year show me type season. Because he will certainly be better than Tua.
I don't want to reach for a QB in the draft this Spring as there really is not much. 2023 will be a better and deeper QB draft.
2022 is going to be a bridge year to the 2023 draft if we don’t land a totally cleared Watson or a veteran like Wilson. So if that is the case.....I would make a very modest offer for Mayfield and have him for a year to see how he does in a fresh scenario. The Browns would be responsible for 80% of his 2022 salary. It’s just a thought and a possibility.
Anything but another season of this putrid pop gun offense led by Tua who is an absolute bust.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Bears should pounce. This is a gift from above. Talk about the complete opposite of Nagy.
Todem
Footballguy
So the Dolphins had Herbert....right there for the taking. They blew it.
Tua is utter crap. I really like the kid as a person.....but he is a subpar NFL QB. Plain and simple.
Flores and it is all starting come out here on our local airwaves was a very very difficult guy to work with. There was a lot of internal stress and dysfunction going back to 2020. Despite us winning 10 games (mostly because our defense was simply excellent and Fitz worked his magic) and rallying to win 9 games this season.....the thought inside the team is there was internal turmoil within the entire coaching staff.
So things will eventually come out about what led to Flores’s dismissal. But despite the last two seasons.....all 3 seasons we failed to reach the post season. Also......let’s not pretend this guy was Don Shula or something. He was a a decent coach who also made some incredibly bad personnel decisions and could not keep a cohesive staff.....they have gone through multiple OL, OC, DC, you name it....so something was rotten at the core.
And this team is not fun to watch......it’s not good football.
Mac Jones looks like he will be a fine NFL QB. He hit a wall here. And I agree you guys will lose next week. But Jones has all the tools to be a successful NFL QB.
Great IQ and and NFL caliber arm talent.
We on the other hand have no real OL and no real QB and no RB talent......and our WR corp save for Waddle and Mack Hollins is dreadful. Devante Parker is all but gone. He cannot stay on the field. Gesicki will be overpaid by someone else in free agency. He is quite possibly the worst starting TE in the league in terms of blocking.....I mean it is dreadful. And blocking is an effort kinda thing. He has had years....years to improve and yet he cannot. Why? He does not want to do it at the level that the NFL demands. And I guarantee he will ask to have the WR Franchise tag salary and point to the % of plays he was asked to split out wide.
Yeah....because you suck at blocking. Something an NFL TE is asked to do at a reasonable level of competency.
We do have some talent....no question. We need a QB in the worst way despite what some delusional Dolphins fans want to think about Tua.
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Todem
Footballguy
But just 6 years where it has been basically his show. And the show is what we got here.
Different names.....same outcome.
Go Dolphins!!!!
Are you Jim Caldwell? You keep bringing him up (my buddy mentioned him as a frontrunner this morning). He's strictly a Rooney Rule candidate. No way Minnesota, Jacksonville, Miami, or anyone hires that guy.
Shankopotamus
Footballguy
I really hope the Vikings or Bears swoop on Flores quickly. Last thing I would want is for him to go back to New England as DC, and then take over there as head coach in a year or two when Satan retires.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
@Gatorman
"Pederson!"
-Seriously, that's a great name and exactly what several of us were trying to put down on a short list, Pederson would be right there with Harbaugh, Quinn, and I would also interview Zimmer, make it known you are looking for experience and see who wants to come here. Pederson has actually won a Super Bowl, that's even better than the other names on this list.
If they wait to interview some hot shot from the Playoffs that only understands one side of the ball I'll be woefully disappointed.
"Pederson!"
-Seriously, that's a great name and exactly what several of us were trying to put down on a short list, Pederson would be right there with Harbaugh, Quinn, and I would also interview Zimmer, make it known you are looking for experience and see who wants to come here. Pederson has actually won a Super Bowl, that's even better than the other names on this list.
If they wait to interview some hot shot from the Playoffs that only understands one side of the ball I'll be woefully disappointed.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
What is the Over/Under for number of years it will take before Miami wins 7 in a row again?...just off the top of my head and I could be wrong but I remember the Dolphins being 3-4 in 1985 after Marino went to the Super Bowl and they reeled off something like 8 or 9 in a row to get int the Playoffs. Marino won 11 in a row to start the 1984 season.
The last time Miami won 7 games in a row, went 8-1 down the stretch, sweep New England and beat them handily most of the game Week 18 when they were playing for the potential Division and the Playoffs and Ross decides to fire him the next day.
The last time Miami won 7 games in a row, went 8-1 down the stretch, sweep New England and beat them handily most of the game Week 18 when they were playing for the potential Division and the Playoffs and Ross decides to fire him the next day.
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Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
I'm with you there. You have to think the fact that Marino sits next to Ross at most games that Doug P may have come up? Again, he has all the goods. Won a SB (over Brady no less), has coaching hires from His tree, and is well respected in the league. He also runs a west coast concept but with RPO and other stuff mixed in. Has made bad/mediocre QBs into winners and Played for Shula and Holmgren.
Leftwich should be the Jags coach. Plain and Simple. Not sure why teams make this so Difficult.
Flores in Minny maybe? Don't see it (Zimmer was a D guy, and Bienemy played there so I think that makes a heck of a lot more sense), and Chicago I'd be surprised. Flo already showed how not to bring along a young QB and the one there is the face of the franchise.
The Giants should replace Judge with FLO. Similar culture, but FLO at least wins late in the year.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
I'd really need to see the stat of how many teams roll off 7 game winning streaks in the NFL. Nevertheless, whats the point of winning 7 straight if you don't at least go 3-3 to start the season? Dolphins may have the record for teams with a winning percentage that does not make the playoffs. Last year, this year, I think one of the Wanny years and one of the Philbin ones. If there are 6 teams in the playoffs, we are 7 (or eight). With 7 teams making it this year, we are 9th...
