44 year old idiot gets into first fist fight - CORRECTION- runs into fist - "goal" debate settled - Studs&Duds chimes in - lawyers muck up another thr (1 Viewer)

[matuski]

Would you say he was over or under 5 foot nothing and 125 pounds?

 

[shuke]

 Okay, dad. I'm 38. 

Seriously, it must be a regional thing. I don't doubt you have played a lot and I know you ref, but I've played my share too in several states and have never heard anybody actually use the term. 

You've never heard of "field goal" with respect to basketball?

Or seen "FG %"?

 

[shuke]

There was a dog in the arcade who said later that she could hear a different frequency coming out of harrys nose when he breathed although later on she said it might have just been a noise coming from the missle command.

someone asked the arcade owner if they had ever seen a real life video game happen before and he said one time someone jumped a runaway barrel like in donkey kong but it happened in the parking lot so it didn't count.

     

 

[Moe.]

1 on 1 does not get priority, that’s nonsense. Is this one court with six baskets, and the “full-court” game is between two of the side baskets? If so that would be insane for two guys to try and claim one hoop for themselves. Surprised you didn’t get any support from the other 20 people who were just shooting as well. 

 

[Zow]

You've never heard of "field goal" with respect to basketball?

Or seen "FG %"?

Of course I have. Same as goaltending. 
 

I get that the rule book calls it a “goal.”  I just never heard anybody call it anything but a basket or a hoop. 

 

[Zow]

You didn't get into a fight; you were attacked.

Did you miss the part about him running at them? 
 

I’m not trying to pile in our hero here and I think the kids were more at fault, but the punch itself was very arguably self-defense. 

 

[cockroach]

Omg, poor kid.  Imagine seeing someone call your dad a "B.A.N." and then he gets his nosed busted trying to rush him and he thinks HE is the hero of the story.  

Also, Chick Hearn would always say something about "under the opponent's goal", so I've heard the basket called that since the 80s. 

 

[cockroach]

I think the most puzzling thing to me (and maybe a symptom of our society today) was how irrationally confident these two were.  Clearly I'm an adult, clearly I'm bigger than them and clearly I wasn't intimidated or backing down.  It was like they just couldn't handle anyone challenging them on anything and had to act tough out of some obligation.  It was very bizarre and kind of surreal when it was going down.

This seems like a lot of projection to me, the bolded parts in particular.   

 

[Punxsutawney Phil]

Now I'm 44 yrs old, 6-2" and about 220 lbs and in good shape as I lift 2x's per week and still play ball weekly.  These two were around 5-10" and 160 each and somewhere between 17-22 yrs old.  

Nice stats bro . Have you ever had any training in combat sports?  What is your fighting history?  It's 2022 you really can't just expect size & strength to equate to victory these days.  That mentality will have you getting choked out by a 13yo white belt.

 

[steelerfan1]

(blows out) this remind me of my friend names harry hairless. harry pretty much only does two things. One is sleep. The other is go to teh arcade. One day he was there playin dig-dug. He had been playing for like 12 hours on one quarter and was about to get not only the high score but the all time dig-dug record held by the great ronald haynes. The record is like 5 million points. Word had spread throughout the town and a large crowd had gathered to watch hairy get this historic moment, a moment that would probly be remembered for generations.

so he just needed to clear one more screen for the record. little dig-dug was moving so fast but them dragons were moving even faster so harry needed to be perfect. Some people had said that harry was in a kind of trance by this point, like he wasn't even looking at the screen but just reacting to stimuli. This isnt him but this is kind of what they say he looked like. I guess when you is the best at something there is a part of you that isn't even a real person no more. You just like ascend to a higher plane of reality. There was a dog in the arcade who said later that she could hear a different frequency coming out of harrys nose when he breathed although later on she said it might have just been a noise coming from the missle command. Either way in that moment something incredible was taking place.

Right at this time two boys names louis and billy-pop decide to place they quarters on the machine to say they is up next. louis put it on one side and billy-pop put in on the other. Louis said he put it up first but billypop said he did. nobody in the crowd could say for sure who was first and by all accounts the placement of the quarters was simultaneous. in this particular arcade when there is a tie like that the person who is currently playing the game is supposed to break the tie and say who is next but remember, harry hairless was hypnotic and so into the game that there was no way he was coherent enough to make the call. "who is first?" said louis. "he was second." said billy. then someone in the crowd yelled "third base". everybody laughed but not harry. people who knew him knew he didn't like abbott of costello but that was not why he wasnt laughing. he wasn't laughing because all the chatter had (gasps) knocked him out of his trance.

Once harry returned to regular concious it only took about 3 seconds for the dragon to eat harry's dig-dug, his last one. When the game ended everyone looked at the score and saw that he was 80 points short of the high score. 12 hours of playing and to come that close was something that harry could not handle. He blamed louis and billy-pop for asking him about who was up next and breaking his concentration. Them boys try to apologize but Harry was just getting madder and madder. It was at this moment that someone in the arcade said "hey everyone, look at Harrys eyes, he is back into that trance". Harry didn't even look at louis or billy, he just took off his belt and lashed it in louis direction, striking him in the stomach. Louis cheeks puffed out and he fell to the ground. Billy-pop said hey, you cant do that and started chasing Harry around the arcade. Right when it looked like billy was going to catch him, harry jumped up and pulled a speaker down from the ceiling. it fell right on billy's head and he fell to the ground. Everyone stood there in stunned silence when a lady said what everyone was thinking "oh my god, harry is playing dig-dug in real life".

the whole arcade was in awe. One little boy yelled out that Harry should get them points added on to he score for taking out louis and billy. The arcade owner thought about it for a minute and said he would give Harry 50 points for louis and 100 for billy but only if harry paid for the damage to the speaker. harry had spent his last quarter and didnt have no money but everyone in the crowd did a live gofundme and give him they quarters. it was just enough to pay for the speaker and now harry hairless was the alltime dig-dug champion. everybody cheered and chanted "har-ry! har-ry!" Hairy was laughing and crying at the same time and still a little bit in a trance. It was weird but nobody judged him because of what he had just accomplished. someone asked the arcade owner if they had ever seen a real life video game happen before and he said one time someone jumped a runaway barrel like in donkey kong but it happened in the parking lot so it didn't count.

many years later ronald haynes challenged Harry's score in a court on law and those points harry got for knocking out louis and billy were taken away. harry didn't mind though because what he did that day was even better then getting a hi score. what he did that day was immortal. Just a few months ago they put up a statue outside the arcade of Harry running and reaching for the speaker. engraved in the statue was harry's score that day and it included the real life points. Ron haynes will probaly sue but harry don't care. He knows in his heart what happened that day and no judge could ever take that away from him.

p and s billy pop died as a result of the speaker falling on he head

Good to see you are still here.

 

[Grahamburn]

Oh one more thing - proper basketball etiquette (and the shark move) would have been to play them for control of the hoop - 1 on 1.  Gives you a chance to do some damage to them without it being obvious.  A well placed elbow goes a long way. 

Cheers, 

Turk

This. 

Or a game of 2 on 2 with his son  

Sounds like there were a bunch of dorks playing HORSE clogging up all the “goals.” 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

People know a made basket is called a “field goal” in basketball right?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Did you miss the part about him running at them? 
 

I’m not trying to pile in our hero here and I think the kids were more at fault, but the punch itself was very arguably self-defense. 

Yes the kid did something jerky and figured he was going to face the music for it when the victim of his jerkiness came sprinting at him - other than run away what should the kid do when it seemed like he was being attacked?

It was totally self-defense (no offense intended towards Jayrod who ultimately did the right thing, but clearly lost his temper temporarily).

 

[shadrap]

Putting the "goal" issue aside, sounds like you did the right thing other than the weird move of running at the kid (from a purely legal perspective, his subsequent action of throwing a punch may be justified if you truly did aggressively run at him and you're twice his size). But kudos to you for being the bigger man and walking away. Simply for your son's sake, I'm glad he got to see you model that behavior for him rather than effectively getting into an actual fistfight with a younger, smaller guy. 

Some times in life it's just not worth standing up to a bully. 

pfffft.  After getting my nose smashed I would have hit his knee with my face.

 

[eoMMan]

Curious if they asked other people as well or just OP.

 

[Jayrod]

Yes the kid did something jerky and figured he was going to face the music for it when the victim of his jerkiness came sprinting at him - other than run away what should the kid do when it seemed like he was being attacked?

It was totally self-defense (no offense intended towards Jayrod who ultimately did the right thing, but clearly lost his temper temporarily).

It was about as pissed as I've been in a long time and I definitely lost it for about 5 seconds. The language and berating me was ridiculous enough and had me on edge, but when he chucked my ball and then stared at me like "what are you going to do about it?" I couldn't control myself in that moment anymore.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

Goal is definitely a thing.

 

[Jayrod]

Curious if they asked other people as well or just OP.

I believe they had asked a few other kids, but I didn't witness it.  Again, they were older and bigger than most of the kids there.  It kind of looked like a 8th grade PE class for the most part on that end of the gym.  By the time they started talking to me, it was cleared out to just me and them.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Did you miss the part about him running at them? 
 

I’m not trying to pile in our hero here and I think the kids were more at fault, but the punch itself was very arguably self-defense. 

Running is equal to punching someone in the face to the point of profuse bleeding.

Yeah, yup that is damn near equal.  Running at a jackass who has been cursing at you and who kicked your ball down court is EQUAL to punching someone in the face.

No, it's not equal, it's not close to being equal.  

He escalated by running but the kid assaulted him by PUNCHING HIM IN THE FACE.  

Running does not   = Punching

Running = Running --- Punching = Punching

Running does not   = Punching 

Never has, never will. 

 

[jobarules]

Running is equal to punching someone in the face to the point of profuse bleeding.

Yeah, yup that is damn near equal.  Running at a jackass who has been cursing at you and who kicked your ball down court is EQUAL to punching someone in the face.

No, it's not equal, it's not close to being equal.  

He escalated by running but the kid assaulted him by PUNCHING HIM IN THE FACE.  

Running does not   = Punching

Running = Running --- Punching = Punching

Running does not   = Punching 

Never has, never will. 

If someone twice my size runs at me like a raging lunatic, I'm defending myself first and asking questions after. 

 

[Jayrod]

If someone twice my size runs at me like a raging lunatic, I'm defending myself first and asking questions after. 

It's not like I was foaming at the mouth.  I actually paused for a second and looked at him incredulously, but then when I saw the "F-you" look on his face I was done with him & ran towards him....but my hands were down and I didn't go to kick or punch but was literally trying to grab the ball out of his hands. I also didn't say a word and hadn't threatened him verbally at all.

Would have been an interesting case and I kinda would have liked to see the video, if there was one.  That said, I'm glad I didn't waste my time trying to go through this officially.  Kid was a punk, I got mad, got punched, left and nothing else came of it but a good story for y'all and some time killing discussion.

I still wish I just would have challenged them to a game of 2 on 1, cause I'm irrationally confident about my hoops goal skills.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Running is equal to punching someone in the face to the point of profuse bleeding.

Yeah, yup that is damn near equal.  Running at a jackass who has been cursing at you and who kicked your ball down court is EQUAL to punching someone in the face.

No, it's not equal, it's not close to being equal.  

He escalated by running but the kid assaulted him by PUNCHING HIM IN THE FACE.  

Running does not   = Punching

Running = Running --- Punching = Punching

Running does not   = Punching 

Never has, never will. 

Yes, why didnt he just run back at Jayrod? That would seem fair. 

 

[Jayrok]

You got the hoop, the basket, the rim (rack?), and the goal. The hoop goes with the basket. The basket goes with the goal.  So who's having sex with the rim?

They're all goals. The ball is having sex with all of them. 

 

[Zow]

Running is equal to punching someone in the face to the point of profuse bleeding.

Yeah, yup that is damn near equal.  Running at a jackass who has been cursing at you and who kicked your ball down court is EQUAL to punching someone in the face.

No, it's not equal, it's not close to being equal.  

He escalated by running but the kid assaulted him by PUNCHING HIM IN THE FACE.  

Running does not   = Punching

Running = Running --- Punching = Punching

Running does not   = Punching 

Never has, never will. 

I'm not arguing that the kid was in the moral right here. But, from a general legal perspective on self-defense, and assuming no jurisdictional nuance to the law, if I were representing the kid on an assault charge I would very much like my odds of prevailing on a self-defense claim at trial. 

As to the bold, the law doesn't agree with you. In this circumstance - and, again, using Jayrod's own admissions herein - we have a 6'2" basketball adonis (that lifts twice a week!) sprinting at some scrawny punk, possibly underage kid weighing no more 160 lbs. with a stated goal of, at the very least, slapping the ball out of the kid's hand. Under those circumstances, even just taking Jayrod at his word, a reasonable person in the kid's position with just a second or two to react would probably believe that he needed to defend himself. And, considering here that only one punch was thrown and it succeeded in stopping this basketball god and his stated goal, his defensive actions seem prudent, proportionate, and reasonable. 

But, I dunno man, if only this board had some seasoned criminal defense attorney to speak on the issue...

 

[Zow]

It's not like I was foaming at the mouth.  I actually paused for a second and looked at him incredulously, but then when I saw the "F-you" look on his face I was done with him & ran towards him....but my hands were down and I didn't go to kick or punch but was literally trying to grab the ball out of his hands. I also didn't say a word and hadn't threatened him verbally at all.

Would have been an interesting case and I kinda would have liked to see the video, if there was one.  That said, I'm glad I didn't waste my time trying to go through this officially.  Kid was a punk, I got mad, got punched, left and nothing else came of it but a good story for y'all and some time killing discussion.

I still wish I just would have challenged them to a game of 2 on 1, cause I'm irrationally confident about my hoops goal skills.

FWIW but for the momentary bad judgment of running at the kid I think you handled yourself fine and, post-incident, you handled yourself perfectly (especially with your kid watching). 

 

[Zow]

Goal is definitely a thing.

Yeah. In hockey, soccer, field hockey, and water polo.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

Yeah. In hockey, soccer, field hockey, and water polo.

And Life, really.  

 

[Zow]

pfffft.  After getting my nose smashed I would have hit his knee with my face.

And then you'd probably be spending a few hours in jail and paying some ####### defense attorney thousands of dollars to get you out of it. And then dealing with the potential civil suit if the kid suffered a significant injury from your knee.

But, hey, your thought process is great for job security

*Rereading the bold, I realize you may be making a joke here and, if you are, ignore all of the above. 

 

[Willie Neslon]

I'm wondering if you can clear up a few things? My first question is when they asked you originally if you would move to another basket and you said "sorry but no" .. Were you continuing to shoot around as you conversed with them? Just trying to get a mental picture here. Did you stop and speak with them or did you just keep hoisting shots up as you turned them down?

Also, in your first post you wrote that after they threw your ball you ran toward them but when you got close that's when you got punched. But in another post today you said that you were "literally" trying to grab their ball. So I guess my question is was there an actual tussle for the ball? Or were you punched before it got to that point?

 

[El Floppo]

I really want to have an opinion about goal vs basket/hoop.

 

[Da Guru]

Should we start a "Your last fight or brawl" thread.?  I love reading these stories.

I worked at a nightclub in college in Ann Arbor, then worked security at all the big concerts in Detroit.  Witnessed some good asswhippings.

That was before Iphones, otherwise there would have been some big paydays.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

If someone twice my size runs at me like a raging lunatic, I'm defending myself first and asking questions after. 

And if someone goes up to a much bigger person cursing and threatening them and took their property and kicked it away from them, then what SHOULD they expect?

Zero reprisal for antagonizing actions?  

He did not punch the kid even AFTER the kid punched him.  He had never been in a fight, EVER.  

As a youth I'd been in many fights but never started one and certainly wouldn't go up to a much bigger person, curse them, steal their ball and kick it away and then assault them if they came at me.  I'd be smart enough to not do any of those actions leading up to them taking a run at me but I'd be really smart and take off before them got close enough to land a punch but YMMV.

 

[Jayrod]

I'm wondering if you can clear up a few things? My first question is when they asked you originally if you would move to another basket and you said "sorry but no" .. Were you continuing to shoot around as you conversed with them? Just trying to get a mental picture here. Did you stop and speak with them or did you just keep hoisting shots up as you turned them down?

Also, in your first post you wrote that after they threw your ball you ran toward them but when you got close that's when you got punched. But in another post today you said that you were "literally" trying to grab their ball. So I guess my question is was there an actual tussle for the ball? Or were you punched before it got to that point?

I continued to shoot the whole time.  Sometimes on their goal basket sometimes on the next one over.  Basically, despite the 2-3 minute conversation I changed nothing I was doing.  Like I mentioned earlier, I actually stopped going over there and let them have their little game, but never said anything and then I didn't shoot on "their" goal basket again until they paused their game to talk to some other random dude.

I was punched before I got to him and his ball which he had on his hip like this.  We were probably 20-30 ft apart when he threw my ball and I decided to go at him.  The literal only physical contact we ever had the whole time was his fist to my nose.

 

[shadrap]

And then you'd probably be spending a few hours in jail and paying some ####### defense attorney thousands of dollars to get you out of it. And then dealing with the potential civil suit if the kid suffered a significant injury from your knee.

But, hey, your thought process is great for job security

*Rereading the bold, I realize you may be making a joke here and, if you are, ignore all of the above. 

yes, joke.

Appreciated the disclaimer.

 

[Jayrod]

And if someone goes up to a much bigger person cursing and threatening them and took their property and kicked it away from them, then what SHOULD they expect?

Zero reprisal for antagonizing actions?  

He did not punch the kid even AFTER the kid punched him.  He had never been in a fight, EVER.  

As a youth I'd been in many fights but never started one and certainly wouldn't go up to a much bigger person, curse them, steal their ball and kick it away and then assault them if they came at me.  I'd be smart enough to not do any of those actions leading up to them taking a run at me but I'd be really smart and take off before them got close enough to land a punch but YMMV.

This kid clearly had some issues in life and felt the need to verbally and physically challenge me for daring to not let him do whatever he wanted to do.  The fact that he felt like he could treat someone else that way at all, much less someone much older doesn't bode well for his future.  Maybe this was a wake up call for him.  Maybe he is emboldened by it and thinks he some kind of hard-### gangster now.  Either way, he isn't going to have much success in life with this kind of willingness to handle any minor confrontation with threats of violence and vulgarity.  The fact that he was at that facility at that time on a Sunday indicates maybe he has some kind of stability in his life, but his behavior suggested otherwise.

 

[beef]

Conceal carry is the answer here.  

 

[Willie Neslon]

I was punched before I got to him and his ball which he had on his hip like this.  We were probably 20-30 ft apart when he threw my ball and I decided to go at him.  The literal only physical contact we ever had the whole time was his fist to my nose.

So the guy had no idea that you were trying to take his ball? How did he punch you if he was holding the ball like that? Did he use his other hand? Or did he drop the ball and whack you?

 

[Jayrod]

So the guy had no idea that you were trying to take his ball? How did he punch you if he was holding the ball like that? Did he use his other hand? Or did he drop the ball and whack you?

It was a quick step back and punch with his other hand (the ball was in his left, he punched with his right).

He may have dropped the ball at that moment, I was a bit distracted to remember for sure and at that point the ball didn't matter anymore.

ETA: It wasn't a very strong punch, just quick and well placed.  It didn't knock me back or down and nothing was broken.  Outside of the bleeding, my nose never swelled up and stopped being sore after a day or two.

 

[Zow]

And if someone goes up to a much bigger person cursing and threatening them and took their property and kicked it away from them, then what SHOULD they expect?

Zero reprisal for antagonizing actions?  

He did not punch the kid even AFTER the kid punched him.  He had never been in a fight, EVER.  

As a youth I'd been in many fights but never started one and certainly wouldn't go up to a much bigger person, curse them, steal their ball and kick it away and then assault them if they came at me.  I'd be smart enough to not do any of those actions leading up to them taking a run at me but I'd be really smart and take off before them got close enough to land a punch but YMMV.

The bold are not legally relevant facts to the kid's self-defense claim. 

 

[shadrap]

Conceal carry is the answer here.  

yep, although the concealed part is hard wearing a t-shirt & gym shorts.

can be done though. (small glock)

 

[Jayrod]

I really want to have an opinion about goal vs basket/hoop.

No need.  It was settled when Sidney Dean chimed in and called it a goal. If the greatest basketball movie of all time calls it a goal, then it is a goal.

 

[shadrap]

The bold are not legally relevant facts to the kid's self-defense claim. 

self defense easily holds up for the kid.

 

[Jayrod]

No need.  It was settled when Sidney Dean chimed in and called it a goal. If the greatest basketball movie of all time calls it a goal, then it is a goal.

A funny side note from my past:

Had a roommate in college that loved White Men Can't Jump so much that he made an audio only recording of the movie on a CD and would play it in his car while he drove on long trips.  He said he could still "see the movie" in his head while he was driving so it was like he was watching it while he drove.

 

[Zow]

A funny side note from my past:

Had a roommate in college that loved White Men Can't Jump so much that he made an audio only recording of the movie on a CD and would play it in his car while he drove on long trips.  He said he could still "see the movie" in his head while he was driving so it was like he was watching it while he drove.

 WTF that's weird. 

 

[Jayrod]

 WTF that's weird. 

That's what I told him.

I miss that dude, even though he was a Kobe fan.  One of the few people in my real life that I could just talk about basketball with for hours.  Need to call him and catch up.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

The bold are not legally relevant facts to the kid's self-defense claim. 

Love to see him try and collect on an assault charge after the kid assaulted and battered his victim.

-------------------------------

Assault and Battery

Two separate offenses against the person that when used in one expression may be defined as any unlawful and unpermitted touching of another. Assault is an act that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent, harmful, or offensive contact. The act consists of a threat of harm accompanied by an apparent, present ability to carry out the threat. Battery is a harmful or offensive touching of another.

The main distinction between the two offenses is the existence or nonexistence of a touching or contact. While contact is an essential element of battery, there must be an absence of contact for assault. Sometimes assault is defined loosely to include battery.

Assault and battery are offenses in both criminal and Tort Law; therefore, they can give rise to criminal or civil liability. In Criminal Law, an assault may additionally be defined as any attempt to commit a battery.

 

[Major]

yep, although the concealed part is hard wearing a t-shirt & gym shorts.

can be done though. (small glock)

I think pepper gel is the move for these types of situations.  It will stop the bs real quick: 

https://www.amazon.com/SABRE-RED-Pepper-GEL-Orientation/dp/B07GVSHG61

 

[Zow]

That's what I told him.

I miss that dude, even though he was a Kobe fan.  One of the few people in my real life that I could just talk about basketball with for hours.  Need to call him and catch up.

Yeah but does he call it a "goal"? Be honest. 

 

[Zow]

Love to see him try and collect on an assault charge after the kid assaulted and battered his victim.

I genuinely don't know what you're saying here. Collect on an assault charge?

My legal premise here is that if Jayrod filed a police report and the kid was charged the kid have a very viable self-defense claim under criminal law. With that premise in mind, I don't know what it is that you're trying to say here. I promise you I'm not being flippant. 

 

[Cjw_55106]

I genuinely don't know what you're saying here. Collect on an assault charge?

My legal premise here is that if Jayrod filed a police report and the kid was charged the kid have a very viable self-defense claim under criminal law. With that premise in mind, I don't know what it is that you're trying to say here. I promise you I'm not being flippant. 

I could very well be off base, but I think he's trying to claim that it wasnt self defense and he'd like to see the kid try to "collect" (lawsuit?) on an assault claim. In his mind (again, just trying to piece things together) if Jayrod didnt assault him, its not self defense. 

I definitely disagree with that assessment, and apologies if Im interpreting his posts wrong.