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8 police officers surround black student while picking up trash where he lives in Colorado (1 Viewer)

gianmarco said:
It is?

-- It's 16 minutes long

-- I see a black man with a bucket and trash clamp in front of where he lives

-- I see multiple police officers, one with a pistol drawn and another with a shotgun for almost the entirety of the video

-- I see an officer hand him his ID at the end that was obviously given to him before

-- I see officers disperse when someone else arrives and mentions profiling and dealing with it later without arresting him or ticketing him or fining him. And most importantly, without apologizing to him.

What, exactly, is out of context?

It's amazing the mental gymnastics that takes place sometimes to excuse poor behavior.
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You don't see the most important 5-10 minutes of the interaction, but don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.

 
gianmarco said:
The issue started before that camera is rolling. 
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So it's entirely possible that as the cops rolled up the jerk with the camera was baiting the cops by yelling for them to get the f out, calling them pigs, etc?

 
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Mookie said:
It's very easy for white people to demand compliance, but I, as a white male, would get pretty "uppity" if a cop drove up to my front lawn while I was trimming the hedges and asked to see my ID, and then engaged me in a stand off because I wasn't being compliant enough.  Leave me the #### alone!

That sort of thing would NEVER happen to me, but it happens to black men all the time.  Why are the rules different for black people?  Why is this harassment, and in some cases murder, tolerated?  In responding to this harassment and profiling, why do blacks need to be more compliant, docile, and polite if they are guaranteed equal rights of citizenship?  Is this treatment indicative of some remnants from our shared history?  What if the roles were reversed and black cops treated white men this way - would you still be demanding compliance and "yessir, right away sir, please and thank you for detaining me in this manner sir"?  
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I wouldn’t, but I’m also not a complete moron.

 
Mr.Pack said:
So it's entirely possible that as the cops rolled up the jerk with the camera was baiting the cops by yelling for them to get the f out, calling them pigs, etc?
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Absolutely.

It's also entirely possible that he's the lead cabaret singer for a Broadway show.

But, both are irrelevant to the fact that the officer stopped to ask a black man sitting on his porch if he belonged there. That's how it all started and it never should have. It's racial profiling and it's a big problem.

That seems to be the main issue that some aren't understanding.  Sure, guy with the camera could have kept his mouth shut. Sure, the student could have handed over his ID and then complied with the request to put down his "weapon". Then no backup is called, the officer investigates if he's allowed there, and then all ends well. No news story, no big deal.

Except it's still a big deal because the officer should have never stopped to begin with. Because with 99.9999% certainty, he stopped and investigated because he was black. Anyone can continue to argue with "well, yeah, but you can't say for sure" or "yeah, where's the video of it?". And I'll repeat that it goes to show why profiling is still a problem and isn't going away anytime soon. Because we don't condemn these actions enough.

 
gianmarco said:
Except it's still a big deal because the officer should have never stopped to begin with. Because with 99.9999% certainty, he stopped and investigated because he was black. Anyone can continue to argue with "well, yeah, but you can't say for sure" or "yeah, where's the video of it?". And I'll repeat that it goes to show why profiling is still a problem and isn't going away anytime soon. Because we don't condemn these actions enough.
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Or not enough people condemn this type of behavior, as evidence by several of the posters in here. The problem is racial profiling by cops, not law-abiding citizens that don't want to put their garbage clamps down. Some people are too dense or racist or understand this.

 
EYLive said:
Or not enough people condemn this type of behavior, as evidence by several of the posters in here. The problem is racial profiling by cops, not law-abiding citizens that don't want to put their garbage clamps down. Some people are too dense or racist or understand this.
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I do condemn people acting like complete dirtbags towards cops. 

 
Gally said:
I can totally understand the frustration and the anger in these situations and they shouldn't be that way.  However, if simply complying (no matter if there is a reason or no reason to be searched/asked for ID/etc) allows there to be no confrontation and no deaths then why not do it?  As someone posted earlier, if the search/detention was a problem then take the legal actions after the fact. 

I know this is a simplistic way to look at these things but I would rather be alive and doing things to comply even if there is no reason for the investigation, than be dead and in the right because I didn't have to comply.
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Now imagine you have lived a life where your right I function like a normal human being is routinely questioned. Black folks report routinely report being targeted in department department stores, not being able to get a cab, being innordinately punished and confronted in school etc etc etc. white people ar great at isolating one event and pretending it’s the only thing that ever happened to a person. The reality for many black folks are things like this happen over and over and over again their whole lives.  That being understood you might understand some chippiness. White society tells them routinely in ways big and small that they don’t belong. 

 
If black people simply start throwing down their arms and being totally compliant EVERY time in EVERY situation... would that change the long-term behavior of cops toward black people?

 
Tom Skerritt said:
If black people simply start throwing down their arms and being totally compliant EVERY time in EVERY situation... would that change the long-term behavior of cops toward black people?
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Not sure what it has to do with black people.

In general when you are confronted by police - be totally compliant EVERY time.  Whether right or wrong, nothing good is going to come out of choosing that moment and time to fight it.

 
matuski said:
Not sure what it has to do with black people.

In general when you are confronted by police - be totally compliant EVERY time.  Whether right or wrong, nothing good is going to come out of choosing that moment and time to fight it.
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You can't imagine why black people might have disdain and distrust for cops?

 
Tom Skerritt said:
You can't imagine why black people might have disdain and distrust for cops?
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What does that have to do with anything.

Right, wrong, indifferent.  Black white purple.

When you find yourself receiving instructions from law enforcement, comply.

 
matuski said:
Enlighten me - how is a black person resisting police going to help themselves?

What does following instructions from law enforcement have to do with skin color?
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I'm white.  I've never had a conversation with my parents about how I need to act if I get pulled over or how to interact with a policeman. I don't plan on having that conversation with my kids.

Black families have that conversation. Because, for them, it could be a matter of life and death. And the discussion, from what I've learned, involves teaching them to be as compliant as possible. And most are. Because for every video like this we see, there are countless incidents of profiling/racism that don't get videoed and don't end in violence but still shouldn't have taken place. It's something black people live with THEIR ENTIRE LIVES. 

And yet it still happens. It's not going to get fixed by just saying "just follow orders". "Be compliant". "You have nothing to worry about if you're not doing anything wrong".

It takes incidents like this to make some people realize the problem exists and to make changes. Most of us here are white middle aged men who won't ever have a true understanding of what it's like. Yet we are just as responsible as that officer when we don't try to learn about it and try and help change the attitude. 

 
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gianmarco said:
I'm white.  I've never had a conversation with my parents about how I need to act if I get pulled over or how to interact with a policeman. I don't plan on having that conversation with my kids.

Black families have that conversation. Because, for them, it could be a matter of life and death. And the discussion, from what I've learned, involves teaching them to be as compliant as possible. And most are. Because for every video like this we see, there are countless incidents of profiling/racism that don't get videoed and don't end in violence but still shouldn't have taken place. It's something black people live with THEIR ENTIRE LIVES. 

And yet it still happens. It's not going to get fixed by just saying "just follow orders". "Be compliant". "You have nothing to worry about if you're not doing anything wrong".

It takes incidents like this to make some people realize the problem exists and to make changes. Most of us here are white middle aged men who won't ever have a true understanding of what it's like. Yet we are just as responsible as that officer when we don't try to learn about it and try and help change the attitude. 
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You made a long post here and managed to answer neither simple and straight forward question.  

At all.  As if I didn't even ask.

 
A Boulder Police officer encountered an extremely rude individual that claimed to be a student at a buddhist college. Officer Whitey thought this was suspicious since all of the other tibetan buddhists that he had previously encountered were very polite. After verifying ID and checking with the University they were able to determine that the individual was actually one of only two tibetan buddhists on the planet that act like complete jerks. 

Stay tuned for report at 11. We are pretty sure we found the second one. 

 
matuski said:
Enlighten me - how is a black person resisting police going to help themselves?

What does following instructions from law enforcement have to do with skin color?
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Thanks for the 2 snarky responses when I tried to lay out answers to your questions.  I read the questions just fine and answered them.  But, I'll be more clear

1)  How is a black person resisting police going to help themselves?  Individually, it won't.  Collectively, it will help themselves immensely.  Resistance to profiling by police (i.e. they get stopped, harassed, and their rights infringed on more than non-blacks) is one of the only ways they can bring light to the problem and help eliminate it.  Non-resistance hasn't gotten them anywhere since the problem is still prevalent.  And your question didn't specify "as an individual".  Resisting and recording these events repeatedly allows people that don't go through this to see how big of a problem it is.  Maybe, one day, after we've seen enough of these incidents, we can start to make even further changes.  Bodycams are a start.  And that started because of wrongful deaths in situations very similar to this one. 

2)  What does following instructions from law enforcement have to do with skin color?  It has everything to do with skin color when the instructions given have to do with skin color.  Because white males aren't given the same instructions nor at the same frequency as black people.  Again, a white guy sitting there isn't even approached.  And if he was, once he produced a student ID, that cop is gone.

To give an extreme example, imagine a police officer camped out at the end of your street that pulls you over every single day and asks for your drivers license and registration.  You've done nothing wrong.  He looks at it and lets you go.  Every day.  Are you going to follow instructions and respond politely during the 5th stop as you did the 1st stop?  The 10th stop?  The 20th stop?  They are just simple instructions and you've done nothing wrong, so just hand over your stuff every time you're stopped and keep your mouth shut, right?   Or, imagine you are actually taken out of your car and asked to put your hands on it while he runs a check on you the first time he stops you.  Keeps you there for 30 minutes, guns drawn.  Sure, you'll follow instructions.  Now, he stops you again a couple days later.  You going to respond the same way? 

And before you say "well, I'll just call his supervisor and report it" or "I'll just file a lawsuit and address this", have you noticed how often police get prosecuted in these types of encounters?

 
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gianmarco said:
Thanks for the 2 snarky responses when I tried to lay out answers to your questions.  I read the questions just fine and answered them.  But, I'll be more clear

1)  How is a black person resisting police going to help themselves?  Individually, it won't.  Collectively, it will help themselves immensely.  Resistance to profiling by police (i.e. they get stopped, harassed, and their rights infringed on more than non-blacks) is one of the only ways they can bring light to the problem and help eliminate it.  Non-resistance hasn't gotten them anywhere since the problem is still prevalent.  And your question didn't specify "as an individual".  Resisting and recording these events repeatedly allows people that don't go through this to see how big of a problem it is.  Maybe, one day, after we've seen enough of these incidents, we can start to make even further changes.  Bodycams are a start.  And that started because of wrongful deaths in situations very similar to this one. 

2)  What does following instructions from law enforcement have to do with skin color?  It has everything to do with skin color when the instructions given have to do with skin color.  Because white males aren't given the same instructions nor at the same frequency as black people.  Again, a white guy sitting there isn't even approached.  And if he was, once he produced a student ID, that cop is gone.

To give an extreme example, imagine a police officer camped out at the end of your street that pulls you over every single day and asks for your drivers license and registration.  You've done nothing wrong.  He looks at it and lets you go.  Every day.  Are you going to follow instructions and respond politely during the 5th stop as you did the 1st stop?  The 10th stop?  The 20th stop?  They are just simple instructions and you've done nothing wrong, so just hand over your stuff every time you're stopped and keep your mouth shut, right?   Or, imagine you are actually taken out of your car and asked to put your hands on it while he runs a check on you the first time he stops you.  Keeps you there for 30 minutes, guns drawn.  Sure, you'll follow instructions.  Now, he stops you again a couple days later.  You going to respond the same way? 

And before you say "well, I'll just call his supervisor and report it" or "I'll just file a lawsuit and address this", have you noticed how often police get prosecuted in these types of encounters?
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This.  It's funny to me middle age white guys are giving advice to comply every time when our demographics aren't the frequent target of this police profiling. 

 
gianmarco said:
Thanks for the 2 snarky responses when I tried to lay out answers to your questions.  I read the questions just fine and answered them.  But, I'll be more clear

1)  How is a black person resisting police going to help themselves?  Individually, it won't.  Collectively, it will help themselves immensely.  Resistance to profiling by police (i.e. they get stopped, harassed, and their rights infringed on more than non-blacks) is one of the only ways they can bring light to the problem and help eliminate it.  Non-resistance hasn't gotten them anywhere since the problem is still prevalent.  And your question didn't specify "as an individual".  Resisting and recording these events repeatedly allows people that don't go through this to see how big of a problem it is.  Maybe, one day, after we've seen enough of these incidents, we can start to make even further changes.  Bodycams are a start.  And that started because of wrongful deaths in situations very similar to this one. 

2)  What does following instructions from law enforcement have to do with skin color?  It has everything to do with skin color when the instructions given have to do with skin color.  Because white males aren't given the same instructions nor at the same frequency as black people.  Again, a white guy sitting there isn't even approached.  And if he was, once he produced a student ID, that cop is gone.

To give an extreme example, imagine a police officer camped out at the end of your street that pulls you over every single day and asks for your drivers license and registration.  You've done nothing wrong.  He looks at it and lets you go.  Every day.  Are you going to follow instructions and respond politely during the 5th stop as you did the 1st stop?  The 10th stop?  The 20th stop?  They are just simple instructions and you've done nothing wrong, so just hand over your stuff every time you're stopped and keep your mouth shut, right?   Or, imagine you are actually taken out of your car and asked to put your hands on it while he runs a check on you the first time he stops you.  Keeps you there for 30 minutes, guns drawn.  Sure, you'll follow instructions.  Now, he stops you again a couple days later.  You going to respond the same way? 

And before you say "well, I'll just call his supervisor and report it" or "I'll just file a lawsuit and address this", have you noticed how often police get prosecuted in these types of encounters?
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Nothing snarky about it.  You did not answer either questions in those posts above.

None of this has ANYTHING to do with my basic and simple position.  I am well aware of historical injustices with minorities.  Irrelevant.

50 stops.  Comply.  100 stops. Comply.

I would assume at some point between these stops you would seek other avenues to address the situation.  THIS is the time and place for all this stuff you are writing a thesis about.  NOT when you are being pulled over or detained.

During that stop?  During the 500th stop?  You comply.  There is no scenario where you win resisting.  There is no upside.  And this has nothing to do with your skin color.

 
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matuski said:
Nothing snarky about it.  You did not answer either questions in those posts above.

None of this has ANYTHING to do with my basic and simple position.  I am well aware of historical injustices with minorities.  Irrelevant.

50 stops.  Comply.  100 stops. Comply.

I would assume at some point between these stops you would seek other avenues to address the situation.  THIS is the time and place for all this stuff you are writing a thesis about.  NOT when you are being pulled over or detained.

During that stop?  During the 500th stop?  You comply.  There is no scenario where you win resisting.  There is no upside.  And this has noting to do with your skin color.
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Really?  What are you a robot?    

 
Also - I am white.  My dad did have that conversation with me.

I cross my hands and hold them against the top of my steering wheel so the cop can see them.  I say "yes officer", "thank you officer".  I tell the officer "im going to reach for the glove compartment" before I reach for the glove compartment.

Not because I'm white, because I am not stupid.

 
Pipes said:
This.  It's funny to me middle age white guys are giving advice to comply every time when our demographics aren't the frequent target of this police profiling. 
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"Hey lady, just say 'no' when he insists of having sex with you persistently when you two are alone."

 
matuski said:
Nothing snarky about it.  You did not answer either questions in those posts above.

None of this has ANYTHING to do with my basic and simple position.  I am well aware of historical injustices with minorities.  Irrelevant.

50 stops.  Comply.  100 stops. Comply.

I would assume at some point between these stops you would seek other avenues to address the situation.  THIS is the time and place for all this stuff you are writing a thesis about.  NOT when you are being pulled over or detained.

During that stop?  During the 500th stop?  You comply.  There is no scenario where you win resisting.  There is no upside.  And this has nothing to do with your skin color.
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You don't think so?  I'm guessing there will be some policy changes and some sensitivity training in the Boulder police department because of this.  It may or may not help but it's a start. 

 
Pipes said:
You don't think so?  I'm guessing there will be some policy changes and some sensitivity training in the Boulder police department because of this.  It may or may not help but it's a start. 
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No.

This video is a perfect example of how not to act when in this scenario.

Regardless of skin color - yelling and cursing at officers, and not complying with simple instructions (drop whatever is in your hands) - bad choices.

 
Pipes said:
You don't think so?  I'm guessing there will be some policy changes and some sensitivity training in the Boulder police department because of this.  It may or may not help but it's a start. 
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Are people somehow under the impression these kids are yelling and cursing at cops so they can achieve sensitivity training?  

Shouting gay slurs at officers because they are concerned about how minorities are treated? :lmao:

 
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matuski said:
Are people somehow under the impression these kids are yelling and cursing at cops so they can achieve sensitivity training?  

Shouting gay slurs at officers because they are concerned about how minorities are treated? :lmao:
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Where did I say he acted appropriately during the video?  I responded to your post about there is no upside for not complying 100% of the time.  This is getting national attention so there was some upside even if the trash picker upper and his buddy contributed to the problem.

 
matuski said:
Also - I am white.  My dad did have that conversation with me.

I cross my hands and hold them against the top of my steering wheel so the cop can see them.  I say "yes officer", "thank you officer".  I tell the officer "im going to reach for the glove compartment" before I reach for the glove compartment.

Not because I'm white, because I am not stupid.
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This. Same here and the same conversation I've had with my kids.

The poster above that said he won't have this conversation with his kids is making a mistake in my opinion, I don't care if they're black white or purple.

It's just common sense and common courtesy

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
This. Same here and the same conversation I've had with my kids.

The poster above that said he won't have this conversation with his kids is making a mistake in my opinion, I don't care if they're black white or purple.

It's just common sense and common courtesy
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How do we know this didn't initially happen?  The cop did get his ID. 

 
Pipes said:
How do we know this didn't initially happen?  The cop did get his ID. 
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What we see on the video is it not happening.  The evidence on the video is a demonstration of the opposite.

If you want to imagine a scenario where it happened before the video started, go nuts.

 
matuski said:
What we see on the video is it not happening.  The evidence on the video is a demonstration of the opposite.

If you want to imagine a scenario where it happened before the video started, go nuts.
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See this is where we differ.  You are focused on the video and I agree the detainee and friend don't look good here.  Many of us are focused on what happened before the video and the fact the video should never have been taken in the first place because...

1.  The police drive by a see someone picking up trash, in broad daylight and move on or

2.  The police after stopping and talking to the man, even getting his id, see he's no threat and move on

Many of us our angry because neither one of the two things happened.  That's the issue to most of us not that actual video itself.

 
gianmarco said:
I'm white.  I've never had a conversation with my parents about how I need to act if I get pulled over or how to interact with a policeman. I don't plan on having that conversation with my kids.

Black families have that conversation. Because, for them, it could be a matter of life and death. And the discussion, from what I've learned, involves teaching them to be as compliant as possible. And most are. Because for every video like this we see, there are countless incidents of profiling/racism that don't get videoed and don't end in violence but still shouldn't have taken place. It's something black people live with THEIR ENTIRE LIVES. 
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White families have that conversation too.  You are just making stuff up at this point.

 
Pipes said:
See this is where we differ.  You are focused on the video and I agree the detainee and friend don't look good here.  Many of us are focused on what happened before the video and the fact the video should never have been taken in the first place because...

1.  The police drive by a see someone picking up trash, in broad daylight and move on or

2.  The police after stopping and talking to the man, even getting his id, see he's no threat and move on

Many of us our angry because neither one of the two things happened.  That's the issue to most of us not that actual video itself.
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We don't differ on any of that at all.  Take the worst possible scenario you can imagine regarding what happened before the video started.

Has nothing to do with my advice and comments regarding behavior when interacting with law enforcement.  

 
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Pipes said:
See this is where we differ.  You are focused on the video and I agree the detainee and friend don't look good here.  Many of us are focused on what happened before the video and the fact the video should never have been taken in the first place because...

1.  The police drive by a see someone picking up trash, in broad daylight and move on or

2.  The police after stopping and talking to the man, even getting his id, see he's no threat and move on

Many of us our angry because neither one of the two things happened.  That's the issue to most of us not that actual video itself.
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Exactly. I'm not nearly as upset about the video as I am upset that there IS a video.

 
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