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A-List Celebrity To Be Outed As A Sexual Predator (2 Viewers)

tom22406 said:
I agree it doesn't prove a thing but it very well could be a symptom of what was really going on with him.
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For sure! The point is, nobody should have strong convictions either way based on a few articles. My position is that we shouldn’t be so quick to judge and persecute. 

 
Sabertooth said:
I'm a bit foggy on the details but did Monica say it was forced?  I always thought Bill's deal with Monica was consensual between two adults.  If it wasn't he should have been arrested because that's rape.  
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What Louis C.K. did was consentual.  I’d wager what lauer did was consentual. I thought we were in the power dynamic era now

 
FTR, I personally think Lauer looks and acts like a total d-bag and if I were to wager a guess I’d say he’s guilty as hell. I just don’t want someone convicted based on what people THINK. I haven’t followed that closely but how many accusations are out there against Lauer? The more accusations out there the more likely the crime imo. 

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
FTR, I personally think Lauer looks and acts like a total d-bag and if I were to wager a guess I’d say he’s guilty as hell. I just don’t want someone convicted based on what people THINK. I haven’t followed that closely but how many accusations are out there against Lauer? The more accusations out there the more likely the crime imo. 
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I think it's a lot.  

 
Todem said:
If it is true.
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Of course it is. You are compelled to believe the accuser.- "modern feminist"

Actually based on the other lauer stuff, I assume it's true. I wouldn't be surprised to read he was giving them the Dutch oven treatments and the frothy walrus at the same time. I'm sure his wife and kids are proud

 
Sabertooth said:
I already did bud.  
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You essentially said that it's the MAGA crowd that's to blame for all of this happening. But I can't reconcile the point since it's liberal men that are bearing the brunt of these results.

So please...just try again.

 
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Rhythmdoctor said:
FTR, I personally think Lauer looks and acts like a total d-bag and if I were to wager a guess I’d say he’s guilty as hell. I just don’t want someone convicted based on what people THINK. I haven’t followed that closely but how many accusations are out there against Lauer? The more accusations out there the more likely the crime imo. 
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This is where I'm at. Bunch of people saying the same thing, ala Cosby, CK, etc and I'm more inclined to accept their word at face value.

And ftr, that video... Could be him thinking he's taking to himself (but with a mic) or good naturedly letting her know she's exposing herself. Or hes a lech.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
You essentially said that it's the MAGA crowd that's to blame for all of this happening. But I can't reconcile the point since it's liberal men that are bearing the brunt of these results.

So please...just try again.
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Gotcha.  Ok.  

Here's how I see it.  When Trump literally sexually harassed the woman on video, the right just went :shrug:   because obviously he can do anything and they just slurp it up.  This, predictably emboldened people.  Both people who act like this animal and also people who've been humiliated by people like Trump. 

You can see it right in the video.  He comes out of the bus.  The woman shakes his hand.  She doesn't reach in for a hug.  She doesn't want a hug.  She wants to stay professional.  Then Billy Bush literally makes her hug Donald, and then he makes her hug Billy.  It's gross and creepy.   But the Religious Right simply said "Benghazi!" and it didn't matter anymore.  

So now you have even more people acting like this squishy old ape.  And for every guy who acts like this, there is a woman forced to debase herself and accept it.  And people are getting more and more fed up with it.  Then the watershed moment happened with Harvey Weinstein.  Then Ben Affleck, and pretty soon the floodwaters broke.   Roy Moore's is a bit different because he's a pedophile, but the timing is conflating the two things. 

So women just got fed up and had enough.  And started feeling emboldened to come forward.   And they should.  Now is the time.  Society isn't doing to Matt Lauer's accusers what it did to Donald Trump's accusers.  They are not shrugging it off anymore.  So this is helping other women feel they won't be villified (like Trump's accusers and Monica before them).  Which is good.  

 
Sabertooth said:
You can see it right in the video.  He comes out of the bus.  The woman shakes his hand.  She doesn't reach in for a hug.  She doesn't want a hug.  She wants to stay professional.  Then Billy Bush literally makes her hug Donald, and then he makes her hug Billy.  It's gross and creepy.   
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But wasn't that all Billy Bush's fault then?

I'm not defending anything said or done on that bus, but the woman reporter wasn't on the bus, if i recall correctly she had never even met DT before that moment. DT, talks #### on the bus, but as soon as he gets off, he's seemingly professional until BB makes her hug him. Then as they walk through the set, BB is the one instigating things. DT is just walking side by side with her....not like he's behind her checking out her ### or making 12 year old type jokes. 

I'm failing to see how you are basing your whole argument on THAT part of the clip? Sure what he was recorded saying BEFORE that is bad, but nothing AFTER he got off the bus paints DT in a pervy light...if anything it makes BB look like the perv

You would think for a guy who claims "I just walk up and grab them by the p---y" he wouldn't be afraid to walk off a bus and go grab a simple hug. 

 
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Doug B said:
You are correct. I maintain that there are categorical differences between ( a ) Bill Clinton's actions with Lewinsky and ( b ) Matt Lauer's actions, Harvey Weinstein's actions, Bill Cosby's actions, Roman Polanski's actions, and so on. Those differences are not absolutely exculpatory, but I think they can be treated as mitigating circumstances. Mitigating -- not absolving. Others' mileage may vary.
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What about Bill’s actions to Paula Jones, Kathleen Wiley, etc?

 
glvsav37 said:
But wasn't that all Billy Bush's fault then?

I'm not defending anything said or done on that bus, but the woman reporter wasn't on the bus, if i recall correctly she had never even met DT before that moment. DT, talks #### on the bus, but as soon as he gets off, he's seemingly professional until BB makes her hug him. Then as they walk through the set, BB is the one instigating things. DT is just walking side by side with her....not like he's behind her checking out her ### or making 12 year old type jokes. 

I'm failing to see how you are basing your whole argument on THAT part of the clip? Sure what he was recorded saying BEFORE that is bad, but nothing AFTER he got off the bus paints DT in a pervy light...if anything it makes BB look like the perv
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Totally agree.  Donald SAID something inappropriate in the bus.  Lots of people seem to think he "admitted" actually doing something, as if it were a confession.  It is beyond arguable, IMO - it's different.  Certainly the tape after they get off the bus looks much worse for Bush than Trump.  If anything, he comes across as a gentleman compared to Bush's boorish behavior in public...when actual harassment was possible, even dangled right in front of his face, Trump did nothing untoward.  But he's been convicted in the media as if he HAD actually grabbed her by the ##### on the way into the studio (and his so-called racism is even more laughable imo).

Does it make me as guilty of harassment as Donald if I state the above?  Does it make me a racist?

Now we've got Matt Lauer with a crude comment caught on tape.  Folks in this thread talking about how it was an inappropriate comment.  Just giving their opinions, but others are treating that as if they were in a position to convict or fire the guy.

It appears to be lost on some of you so I'll just go ahead and say it: the standard of "holding an opinion" changes with the severity of the consequences for holding that opinion.  If I'm in charge of firing Matt Lauer, my opinion of that tape has far weightier consequences than if I'm in charge of nothing but my post on a message board.

The my level of conviction and willingness to express my opinions will be different under different circumstances. :o

The absurd thing to me is the extreme imagination necessary to work up the outrage that people feel in allowing themselves to conflate the two totally different scenarios.

You might say that in the case of Trump, the consequences are that he became president.  OK, fair point and the weight of holding an opinion is heavier in that situation than in this.  And voters, hopefully, took it that much more seriously in deciding what conclusions to draw from the Trump tape than from the Lauer tape.

Funny that the level of outrage from those who disagree with the conclusions seems to be about the same in both cases.

 
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Psychopav said:
Now we've got Matt Lauer with a crude comment caught on tape.  Folks in this thread talking about how it was an inappropriate comment.  Just giving their opinions, but others are treating that as if they were in a position to convict or fire the guy.
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and I'm going to add this unpopular observation....with the Lauer clip...you actually see the words come out of is mouth, lips move and eyes stare. 

with the trump/bus tape, all of the really nasty stuff is only a recording, played over a far away shot of the bus pulling up to the studio lot. Not inside, from the outside. In today's day and technology, where you can literally do anything on video, there isn't the slightest chance that the 'grab her by' audio is cobbled together and dubbed over an otherwise generic shot of their bus pulling up to the lot?  

Again, If he was talking like that on the bus and as soon as the door opens, he pounces on the female greeter and gets all handsy, I would say OK. But otherwise, it seems to me like a dude who was talking a lot of #### a bout kicking someones ### before going into the club and then took one look at the bouncer and shrunk like a wilting flower

 
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glvsav37 said:
But wasn't that all Billy Bush's fault then?

I'm not defending anything said or done on that bus, but the woman reporter wasn't on the bus, if i recall correctly she had never even met DT before that moment. DT, talks #### on the bus, but as soon as he gets off, he's seemingly professional until BB makes her hug him. Then as they walk through the set, BB is the one instigating things. DT is just walking side by side with her....not like he's behind her checking out her ### or making 12 year old type jokes. 

I'm failing to see how you are basing your whole argument on THAT part of the clip? Sure what he was recorded saying BEFORE that is bad, but nothing AFTER he got off the bus paints DT in a pervy light...if anything it makes BB look like the perv

You would think for a guy who claims "I just walk up and grab them by the p---y" he wouldn't be afraid to walk off a bus and go grab a simple hug. 
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  Right after Billy makes this woman hug Trump, Trump returns the favor.  So it’s on both.  And if I recall, Billy did lose his job, right? 

 
Sabertooth said:
  Right after Billy makes this woman hug Trump, Trump returns the favor.  So it’s on both.  And if I recall, Billy did lose his job, right? 
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so its protocol now that if someone of the opposite sex goes to hug me hello, I should throw my hands up and say "sorry. this makes me uncomfortable"

really?? your argument is really dragging the bottom of the believablity barrel. 

 
glvsav37 said:
so its protocol now that if someone of the opposite sex goes to hug me hello, I should throw my hands up and say "sorry. this makes me uncomfortable"

really?? your argument is really dragging the bottom of the believablity barrel. 
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At the very least, it's debatable.  It doesn't make you a rapist to believe the opposite of what Sabertooth believes.

I disagree that this is about politics.  It's about interpersonal relationships.  I have a friend on facebook who posted yesterday:

"And to anyone who supports him who still actually reads my posts, I no longer care what you think.  Your silence in the face of his hatred, his divisiveness and his destructive behavior is appalling.  your complicit acceptance disgusts me.  By allowing him to continue on becasue 'that's just him' makes you an accessory.  You are now the racist.  you are now the sexual predator.  You are now the bully.

Justify it all you want.  Call me angry and judgmental all you want.  I no longer care.  Your acceptance of his evil negates the validity of your opinion."

Is that politics?  Or is it just super judgmental?

 
glvsav37 said:
so its protocol now that if someone of the opposite sex goes to hug me hello, I should throw my hands up and say "sorry. this makes me uncomfortable"

really?? your argument is really dragging the bottom of the believablity barrel. 
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Shut your whore mouth.  All this is Trump's fault.  End of story.

 
Todem said:
Maybe this should be moved to the political forum. It’s getting hot in here.
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An excellent point.

Fred, as one of the chief architects of the political forum, what was your plan for threads like this? 

Great question, Fred.  I have always maintained that important current events belong in the ffa. However, when they begin to degenerate into partisan bickering, as is so often the case, we move them to the politics forum where they can be discussed by the people most interested. 

Take this thread for example. It was quite a rousing discussion, and now people are taking about Trump and Pelosi.  Is this the end?  Not yet, but it's teetering.  

I'm going to make a ruling - if this continues to degenerate into red vs blue, we'll ask for this thread to go to the politics forum so the interested parties can continue their version of the discussion. Then, if current events continue, someone can start a new ffa thread if they do desire.  

Thank you for helping to make the ffa great again. 

Cheers

Fred

 
RUSF18 said:
Your father's math stinks. 
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He's an engineer. I'm pretty sure he figured using his usual precision might take away from the pure comedy of his statement. 

Poor guy is a comic genius and all he got were crickets. 

 
Todem said:
Maybe this should be moved to the political forum. It’s getting hot in here.
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So let's take off all our.... oh wait, probably shouldn't play that song anymore.

 
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glvsav37 said:
so its protocol now that if someone of the opposite sex goes to hug me hello, I should throw my hands up and say "sorry. this makes me uncomfortable"

really?? your argument is really dragging the bottom of the believablity barrel. 
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You have a choice.  You are not obligated to touch people.  Did you see any indication that she wanted a hug before Billy pretty much told her to hug Creeper Don.  

 
I think any public apology in these cases comes of a phony PR garbage IMO. They are doing it to save face because they got caught, I don't put a whole lot of stock into them. It's really a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. 

 
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