A plea for civility in the PSF. (1 Viewer)

[Ghost Rider]

Those are your thoughts and feelings. Not everyone shares your thoughts and opinions.

This isn’t hard.

This is a thread about civility. I am telling you right here that I find that to be rude. My feelings aren't hurt, I will be fine if you laugh at a post of mine.

However, someone with genuine interest in having a rational discussion cares about how they are perceived. Communication is a two way street - what we say isn't always received the way we want. I'm telling you now - I perceive that as being rude. If that's what you want to put out to the world, so be it.

I imagine you don't care.

Ok let’s discuss this with civility….

You do you. I'm not going to stop you from being rude. If you want to be perceived as being a jerk, go for it.

You totally avoided my question.


You find it to be rude.

I don’t.

Why is your way the only way and mine isn’t? Why does what you think supersede what I think?

I’d like to answer this. Personally I don’t care about the laughing emoji one way or another, never have.

But as a general rule I have a problem with your position, which if I understand it correctly is: “I don’t care if someone else finds something I said offensive; so long as I don’t find it offensive, I’m going to continue to say it.” IMO, this sort of position contributes to an uncivil atmosphere. I think it’s better to respect other people’s concerns whether you agree with them or not. Again, not always, but as a general rule.

This is the world you want to live in- where you force your views on others. It’s not about not caring. You can’t please everyone.

I am saying that Indont think the laughing emoji is offensive. You think it is.

Who is right? Both? Neither?

How can you be so obtuse? Is it deliberate?

Hey that’s a direct quote from Stephen King’s novella “Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption”.

Indeed it is. I wasn't the first and won't be the last to use that quote. It seemed to apply to the silliness to which I was responding.

First you say Im being Obtuse.

Definition of obtuse​

1a: not pointed or acute : BLUNT
b(1)of an angle : exceeding 90 degrees but less than 180 degrees
(2): having an obtuse anglean obtuse triangle— see TRIANGLE ILLUSTRATION
cof a leaf : rounded at the free end
2a: lacking sharpness or quickness of sensibility or intellect : INSENSITIVE, STUPIDHe is too obtuse to take a hint.
b: difficult to comprehend : not clear or precise in thought or expressionIt is also, unfortunately, ill-written, and at times obtuse and often trivial.— Shirley Hazzard

Then you say my words and response was "silly".

Is this your version of being civil? People using the laughing emoji is not being civil, but calling me names is cool? Seems contradictory to your point, no?

Saying a post/behavior is silly is not name-calling. If I said you are a silly billy, that would be name-calling.

It's like if someone said to you, "stop acting stupid." They are not calling you names; they are commenting on your behavior. There is a difference.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

And I stand by what I wrote. If someone can't articulate an argument to agree or disagree with someone and chooses to laugh or cry instead...maybe message boards aren't the best form of communication for such a person.

Again, not everyone takes this forum as seriously as you do.

Some people pop in here once in awhile and use it as entertainment. Not everyone acts like they are saving humanity day to day in the PSF on fbg’s

Why does it bother you so much?

 

[timschochet]

Those are your thoughts and feelings. Not everyone shares your thoughts and opinions.

This isn’t hard.

This is a thread about civility. I am telling you right here that I find that to be rude. My feelings aren't hurt, I will be fine if you laugh at a post of mine.

However, someone with genuine interest in having a rational discussion cares about how they are perceived. Communication is a two way street - what we say isn't always received the way we want. I'm telling you now - I perceive that as being rude. If that's what you want to put out to the world, so be it.

I imagine you don't care.

Ok let’s discuss this with civility….

You do you. I'm not going to stop you from being rude. If you want to be perceived as being a jerk, go for it.

You totally avoided my question.


You find it to be rude.

I don’t.

Why is your way the only way and mine isn’t? Why does what you think supersede what I think?

I’d like to answer this. Personally I don’t care about the laughing emoji one way or another, never have.

But as a general rule I have a problem with your position, which if I understand it correctly is: “I don’t care if someone else finds something I said offensive; so long as I don’t find it offensive, I’m going to continue to say it.” IMO, this sort of position contributes to an uncivil atmosphere. I think it’s better to respect other people’s concerns whether you agree with them or not. Again, not always, but as a general rule.

This is the world you want to live in- where you force your views on others. It’s not about not caring. You can’t please everyone.

I am saying that Indont think the laughing emoji is offensive. You think it is.

Who is right? Both? Neither?

How can you be so obtuse? Is it deliberate?

Hey that’s a direct quote from Stephen King’s novella “Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption”.

Indeed it is. I wasn't the first and won't be the last to use that quote. It seemed to apply to the silliness to which I was responding.

First you say Im being Obtuse.

Definition of obtuse​

1a: not pointed or acute : BLUNT
b(1)of an angle : exceeding 90 degrees but less than 180 degrees
(2): having an obtuse anglean obtuse triangle— see TRIANGLE ILLUSTRATION
cof a leaf : rounded at the free end
2a: lacking sharpness or quickness of sensibility or intellect : INSENSITIVE, STUPIDHe is too obtuse to take a hint.
b: difficult to comprehend : not clear or precise in thought or expressionIt is also, unfortunately, ill-written, and at times obtuse and often trivial.— Shirley Hazzard

Then you say my words and response was "silly".

Is this your version of being civil? People using the laughing emoji is not being civil, but calling me names is cool? Seems contradictory to your point, no?

Saying a post/behavior is silly is not name-calling. If I said you are a silly billy, that would be name-calling.

It's like if someone said to you, "stop acting stupid." They are not calling you names; they are commenting on your behavior. There is a difference.

This is the same distinction I was attempting to make in my last post.

 

[(HULK)]

I nominate this guy as "agree to disagree" because it's probably close to the feeling and also no one will be upset by a sad banana (except our wives )

 

[sho nuff]

And I stand by what I wrote. If someone can't articulate an argument to agree or disagree with someone and chooses to laugh or cry instead...maybe message boards aren't the best form of communication for such a person.

Again, not everyone takes this forum as seriously as you do.

Some people pop in here once in awhile and use it as entertainment. Not everyone acts like they are saving humanity day to day in the PSF on fbg’s

Why does it bother you so much?

You seem to be adding more to what I said than was in there.
I am not saving any humanity...this is a form of entertainment and communication.
Nor have I stated it bothers me at all. You seem bothered though that others may not find it a constructive form of communication.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Is it okay to when the guy that constantly asks gotcha questions but refuses to answer questions is telling others a message board isn’t for them?

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Is it okay to when the guy that constantly asks gotcha questions but refuses to answer questions is telling others a message board isn’t for them?

Seriously
What the **** is going on in here ??

 

[Shula-holic]

And I stand by what I wrote. If someone can't articulate an argument to agree or disagree with someone and chooses to laugh or cry instead...maybe message boards aren't the best form of communication for such a person.

Again, not everyone takes this forum as seriously as you do.

Some people pop in here once in awhile and use it as entertainment. Not everyone acts like they are saving humanity day to day in the PSF on fbg’s

Why does it bother you so much?

There are certainly times I comment when I should let stuff go. But at the end of the day I don’t remember ever being angry or upset over a post anyone made or any derogatory comment. It’s a message board. If you aren’t self assured enough in yourself and your positions to be able to laugh that stuff off at the end of the day it’s really a “you thing” and not on the board. Political boards are going to have disagreements.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Is it okay to when the guy that constantly asks gotcha questions but refuses to answer questions is telling others a message board isn’t for them?

Thank you for asking.

No.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Those are your thoughts and feelings. Not everyone shares your thoughts and opinions.

This isn’t hard.

This is a thread about civility. I am telling you right here that I find that to be rude. My feelings aren't hurt, I will be fine if you laugh at a post of mine.

However, someone with genuine interest in having a rational discussion cares about how they are perceived. Communication is a two way street - what we say isn't always received the way we want. I'm telling you now - I perceive that as being rude. If that's what you want to put out to the world, so be it.

I imagine you don't care.

Ok let’s discuss this with civility….

You do you. I'm not going to stop you from being rude. If you want to be perceived as being a jerk, go for it.

You totally avoided my question.


You find it to be rude.

I don’t.

Why is your way the only way and mine isn’t? Why does what you think supersede what I think?

I’d like to answer this. Personally I don’t care about the laughing emoji one way or another, never have.

But as a general rule I have a problem with your position, which if I understand it correctly is: “I don’t care if someone else finds something I said offensive; so long as I don’t find it offensive, I’m going to continue to say it.” IMO, this sort of position contributes to an uncivil atmosphere. I think it’s better to respect other people’s concerns whether you agree with them or not. Again, not always, but as a general rule.

This is the world you want to live in- where you force your views on others. It’s not about not caring. You can’t please everyone.

I am saying that Indont think the laughing emoji is offensive. You think it is.

Who is right? Both? Neither?

How can you be so obtuse? Is it deliberate?

Hey that’s a direct quote from Stephen King’s novella “Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption”.

Indeed it is. I wasn't the first and won't be the last to use that quote. It seemed to apply to the silliness to which I was responding.

First you say Im being Obtuse.

Definition of obtuse​

1a: not pointed or acute : BLUNT
b(1)of an angle : exceeding 90 degrees but less than 180 degrees
(2): having an obtuse anglean obtuse triangle— see TRIANGLE ILLUSTRATION
cof a leaf : rounded at the free end
2a: lacking sharpness or quickness of sensibility or intellect : INSENSITIVE, STUPIDHe is too obtuse to take a hint.
b: difficult to comprehend : not clear or precise in thought or expressionIt is also, unfortunately, ill-written, and at times obtuse and often trivial.— Shirley Hazzard

Then you say my words and response was "silly".

Is this your version of being civil? People using the laughing emoji is not being civil, but calling me names is cool? Seems contradictory to your point, no?

Saying a post/behavior is silly is not name-calling. If I said you are a silly billy, that would be name-calling.

It's like if someone said to you, "stop acting stupid." They are not calling you names; they are commenting on your behavior. There is a difference.

This response is EXACTLY the type of post that deserves a . And he said I was being obtuse. JFC.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Is it okay to when the guy that constantly asks gotcha questions but refuses to answer questions is telling others a message board isn’t for them?

Seriously
What the **** is going on in here ??

Who knows man. They really need to do something about the mental health problems in this country.

 

[Da Guru]

Those are your thoughts and feelings. Not everyone shares your thoughts and opinions.

This isn’t hard.

This is a thread about civility. I am telling you right here that I find that to be rude. My feelings aren't hurt, I will be fine if you laugh at a post of mine.

However, someone with genuine interest in having a rational discussion cares about how they are perceived. Communication is a two way street - what we say isn't always received the way we want. I'm telling you now - I perceive that as being rude. If that's what you want to put out to the world, so be it.

I imagine you don't care.

Ok let’s discuss this with civility….

You do you. I'm not going to stop you from being rude. If you want to be perceived as being a jerk, go for it.

You totally avoided my question.


You find it to be rude.

I don’t.

Why is your way the only way and mine isn’t? Why does what you think supersede what I think?

I’d like to answer this. Personally I don’t care about the laughing emoji one way or another, never have.

But as a general rule I have a problem with your position, which if I understand it correctly is: “I don’t care if someone else finds something I said offensive; so long as I don’t find it offensive, I’m going to continue to say it.” IMO, this sort of position contributes to an uncivil atmosphere. I think it’s better to respect other people’s concerns whether you agree with them or not. Again, not always, but as a general rule.

This is the world you want to live in- where you force your views on others. It’s not about not caring. You can’t please everyone.

I am saying that Indont think the laughing emoji is offensive. You think it is.

Who is right? Both? Neither?

As I wrote I don’t personally find the laughing emoji offensive.

To answer your other questions:

1. I’m not trying to force any views on you. I do think you and everyone else should be polite, and that means avoiding offending other people if you can.

2. I don’t care who’s right. I care who’s civil.

Tim you never answered. Why did you say in the title there are "Attempts" to shut the forum down? What would the reason be in your mind?

JB is the one who posted that he is considering shutting it down.

I did answer. I think there are people here who deliberately post provocative and ugly stuff with the intent of getting reaction so that ultimately this place gets shut down. I think that some of these are the same people who have openly posted in this thread that they would like to see this forum shut down. I believe the only way to stop this from happening is if we all act much more civil towards each other.

That’s what I think; others may disagree.

What I asked is why do "you" think people want it shut down? You don`t have to name actual names.

I don`t get the logic as it seems here both sides come here to bicker and argue day in and day out. If Joe decided to shut it down who are they going to argue with?

 

[KarmaPolice]

But as usual, it's not about what Joe and mods want and being respectful of that, its about weak posters being "offended " by emojis.

It can be both.

I have zero doubt in my mind that 5 years ago we would have all agreed that the person that whines to mgmt and makes a big deal about somebody posting emojis in response to their political statements is definitely the less likable person than the person that clicks on the board provided emojis.

So while we may not like either behavior, if I had to pick one, that's not a hard choice.

You have a good point here, and Joe might not have started at that position, but came to it from reactions from posters. We probably don't agree on which poster is more annoying just on what you posted though. To me it's not just the emoji, really wgaf about them in a vacuum. Annoying posters to me overuse it in conjunction with basically contributing no opinions or conversations to topics at hand. I find it odd when there is a handful of frequent posters who I couldn't tell you zip about their positions on any topic in the psf. I could tell you which posters on the board they don't like though.

 

[timschochet]

Those are your thoughts and feelings. Not everyone shares your thoughts and opinions.

This isn’t hard.

This is a thread about civility. I am telling you right here that I find that to be rude. My feelings aren't hurt, I will be fine if you laugh at a post of mine.

However, someone with genuine interest in having a rational discussion cares about how they are perceived. Communication is a two way street - what we say isn't always received the way we want. I'm telling you now - I perceive that as being rude. If that's what you want to put out to the world, so be it.

I imagine you don't care.

Ok let’s discuss this with civility….

You do you. I'm not going to stop you from being rude. If you want to be perceived as being a jerk, go for it.

You totally avoided my question.


You find it to be rude.

I don’t.

Why is your way the only way and mine isn’t? Why does what you think supersede what I think?

I’d like to answer this. Personally I don’t care about the laughing emoji one way or another, never have.

But as a general rule I have a problem with your position, which if I understand it correctly is: “I don’t care if someone else finds something I said offensive; so long as I don’t find it offensive, I’m going to continue to say it.” IMO, this sort of position contributes to an uncivil atmosphere. I think it’s better to respect other people’s concerns whether you agree with them or not. Again, not always, but as a general rule.

This is the world you want to live in- where you force your views on others. It’s not about not caring. You can’t please everyone.

I am saying that Indont think the laughing emoji is offensive. You think it is.

Who is right? Both? Neither?

As I wrote I don’t personally find the laughing emoji offensive.

To answer your other questions:

1. I’m not trying to force any views on you. I do think you and everyone else should be polite, and that means avoiding offending other people if you can.

2. I don’t care who’s right. I care who’s civil.

Tim you never answered. Why did you say in the title there are "Attempts" to shut the forum down? What would the reason be in your mind?

JB is the one who posted that he is considering shutting it down.

I did answer. I think there are people here who deliberately post provocative and ugly stuff with the intent of getting reaction so that ultimately this place gets shut down. I think that some of these are the same people who have openly posted in this thread that they would like to see this forum shut down. I believe the only way to stop this from happening is if we all act much more civil towards each other.

That’s what I think; others may disagree.

What I asked is why do "you" think people want it shut down? You don`t have to name actual names.

I don`t get the logic as it seems here both sides come here to bicker and argue day in and day out. If Joe decided to shut it down who are they going to argue with?

I don’t know why they want it shut down. But it’s very clear they do. Many of them have posted in this thread that they would like to see it shut down.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Those are your thoughts and feelings. Not everyone shares your thoughts and opinions.

This isn’t hard.

This is a thread about civility. I am telling you right here that I find that to be rude. My feelings aren't hurt, I will be fine if you laugh at a post of mine.

However, someone with genuine interest in having a rational discussion cares about how they are perceived. Communication is a two way street - what we say isn't always received the way we want. I'm telling you now - I perceive that as being rude. If that's what you want to put out to the world, so be it.

I imagine you don't care.

Ok let’s discuss this with civility….

You do you. I'm not going to stop you from being rude. If you want to be perceived as being a jerk, go for it.

You totally avoided my question.


You find it to be rude.

I don’t.

Why is your way the only way and mine isn’t? Why does what you think supersede what I think?

I’d like to answer this. Personally I don’t care about the laughing emoji one way or another, never have.

But as a general rule I have a problem with your position, which if I understand it correctly is: “I don’t care if someone else finds something I said offensive; so long as I don’t find it offensive, I’m going to continue to say it.” IMO, this sort of position contributes to an uncivil atmosphere. I think it’s better to respect other people’s concerns whether you agree with them or not. Again, not always, but as a general rule.

This is the world you want to live in- where you force your views on others. It’s not about not caring. You can’t please everyone.

I am saying that Indont think the laughing emoji is offensive. You think it is.

Who is right? Both? Neither?

As I wrote I don’t personally find the laughing emoji offensive.

To answer your other questions:

1. I’m not trying to force any views on you. I do think you and everyone else should be polite, and that means avoiding offending other people if you can.

2. I don’t care who’s right. I care who’s civil.

Tim you never answered. Why did you say in the title there are "Attempts" to shut the forum down? What would the reason be in your mind?

JB is the one who posted that he is considering shutting it down.

I did answer. I think there are people here who deliberately post provocative and ugly stuff with the intent of getting reaction so that ultimately this place gets shut down. I think that some of these are the same people who have openly posted in this thread that they would like to see this forum shut down. I believe the only way to stop this from happening is if we all act much more civil towards each other.

That’s what I think; others may disagree.

What I asked is why do "you" think people want it shut down? You don`t have to name actual names.

I don`t get the logic as it seems here both sides come here to bicker and argue day in and day out. If Joe decided to shut it down who are they going to argue with?

I don’t know why they want it shut down. But it’s very clear they do. Many of them have posted in this thread that they would like to see it shut down.

You think that the very people who come here day in and day out want to make it so they cant come here day in and day out?

I never even thought of of the idea but if I were Joseph, I would close it down.


Another question, aren't there other places/forums that are better suited for these discussions? A fantasy football board is your ideal place to discuss politics?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Again, not everyone takes this forum as seriously as you do.

Some people pop in here once in awhile and use it as entertainment.

How are those that are popping in here to be entertained entertaining themselves? Are they enjoying the "serious" discussion? Or are they mocking or interrupting that conversation? I'm pretty certain that the board owner ideally wants this place to be where people can have discussions involving people that disagree. That seems to be less likely with most varieties of posting to be entertained. As opposed to posting because you have something to say.

 

[Da Guru]

Those are your thoughts and feelings. Not everyone shares your thoughts and opinions.

This isn’t hard.

This is a thread about civility. I am telling you right here that I find that to be rude. My feelings aren't hurt, I will be fine if you laugh at a post of mine.

However, someone with genuine interest in having a rational discussion cares about how they are perceived. Communication is a two way street - what we say isn't always received the way we want. I'm telling you now - I perceive that as being rude. If that's what you want to put out to the world, so be it.

I imagine you don't care.

Ok let’s discuss this with civility….

You do you. I'm not going to stop you from being rude. If you want to be perceived as being a jerk, go for it.

You totally avoided my question.


You find it to be rude.

I don’t.

Why is your way the only way and mine isn’t? Why does what you think supersede what I think?

I’d like to answer this. Personally I don’t care about the laughing emoji one way or another, never have.

But as a general rule I have a problem with your position, which if I understand it correctly is: “I don’t care if someone else finds something I said offensive; so long as I don’t find it offensive, I’m going to continue to say it.” IMO, this sort of position contributes to an uncivil atmosphere. I think it’s better to respect other people’s concerns whether you agree with them or not. Again, not always, but as a general rule.

This is the world you want to live in- where you force your views on others. It’s not about not caring. You can’t please everyone.

I am saying that Indont think the laughing emoji is offensive. You think it is.

Who is right? Both? Neither?

As I wrote I don’t personally find the laughing emoji offensive.

To answer your other questions:

1. I’m not trying to force any views on you. I do think you and everyone else should be polite, and that means avoiding offending other people if you can.

2. I don’t care who’s right. I care who’s civil.

Tim you never answered. Why did you say in the title there are "Attempts" to shut the forum down? What would the reason be in your mind?

JB is the one who posted that he is considering shutting it down.

I did answer. I think there are people here who deliberately post provocative and ugly stuff with the intent of getting reaction so that ultimately this place gets shut down. I think that some of these are the same people who have openly posted in this thread that they would like to see this forum shut down. I believe the only way to stop this from happening is if we all act much more civil towards each other.

That’s what I think; others may disagree.

What I asked is why do "you" think people want it shut down? You don`t have to name actual names.

I don`t get the logic as it seems here both sides come here to bicker and argue day in and day out. If Joe decided to shut it down who are they going to argue with?

I don’t know why they want it shut down. But it’s very clear they do. Many of them have posted in this thread that they would like to see it shut down.

Joe is the one who said he is considering shutting it down. A couple of others just agreed with him.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Another question, aren't there other places/forums that are better suited for these discussions? A fantasy football board is your ideal place to discuss politics?

This place has taken some seriously loses over the years. But there are still ridiculously smart people that post here. People that challenge one's beliefs if you let them. So maybe, just maybe a fantasy football board simply attracts those people.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Another question, aren't there other places/forums that are better suited for these discussions? A fantasy football board is your ideal place to discuss politics?

This place has taken some seriously loses over the years. But there are still ridiculously smart people that post here. People that challenge one's beliefs if you let them. So maybe, just maybe a fantasy football board simply attracts those people.

Wouldn't it be better if we all got along like we used to? @rockaction and I disagree adamantly on politics but we get along swimmingly in the FFA. He is one of my most favorite posters. In here, not so much.

Is it really worth it?

 

[rockaction]

and I disagree adamantly on politics

On some things we do indeed disagree. On other things we agree, though. I have no problem with your stance on "wokeness" and other things of that ilk. I have no problem with a high self-resiliency, low-taxation state. I'm not heavy into LGBT+ rights, because of what the "T" entails and what the more radical fringes of the other initials advocate. I don't have a bootstrapping argument problem. My stance on BLM and other social issues like that is moderate, at best. I'd get run out of modern liberal circles. MSNBC wouldn't have me. CNN wouldn't either. Heck, most corporations would want to fire me because I'm too conservative for woke capital.

But your point is taken, and it's good that we get along in other parts of the forum. I enjoy that and appreciate you as a human, STEADY.

 

[timschochet]

Those are your thoughts and feelings. Not everyone shares your thoughts and opinions.

This isn’t hard.

This is a thread about civility. I am telling you right here that I find that to be rude. My feelings aren't hurt, I will be fine if you laugh at a post of mine.

However, someone with genuine interest in having a rational discussion cares about how they are perceived. Communication is a two way street - what we say isn't always received the way we want. I'm telling you now - I perceive that as being rude. If that's what you want to put out to the world, so be it.

I imagine you don't care.

Ok let’s discuss this with civility….

You do you. I'm not going to stop you from being rude. If you want to be perceived as being a jerk, go for it.

You totally avoided my question.


You find it to be rude.

I don’t.

Why is your way the only way and mine isn’t? Why does what you think supersede what I think?

I’d like to answer this. Personally I don’t care about the laughing emoji one way or another, never have.

But as a general rule I have a problem with your position, which if I understand it correctly is: “I don’t care if someone else finds something I said offensive; so long as I don’t find it offensive, I’m going to continue to say it.” IMO, this sort of position contributes to an uncivil atmosphere. I think it’s better to respect other people’s concerns whether you agree with them or not. Again, not always, but as a general rule.

This is the world you want to live in- where you force your views on others. It’s not about not caring. You can’t please everyone.

I am saying that Indont think the laughing emoji is offensive. You think it is.

Who is right? Both? Neither?

As I wrote I don’t personally find the laughing emoji offensive.

To answer your other questions:

1. I’m not trying to force any views on you. I do think you and everyone else should be polite, and that means avoiding offending other people if you can.

2. I don’t care who’s right. I care who’s civil.

Tim you never answered. Why did you say in the title there are "Attempts" to shut the forum down? What would the reason be in your mind?

JB is the one who posted that he is considering shutting it down.

I did answer. I think there are people here who deliberately post provocative and ugly stuff with the intent of getting reaction so that ultimately this place gets shut down. I think that some of these are the same people who have openly posted in this thread that they would like to see this forum shut down. I believe the only way to stop this from happening is if we all act much more civil towards each other.

That’s what I think; others may disagree.

What I asked is why do "you" think people want it shut down? You don`t have to name actual names.

I don`t get the logic as it seems here both sides come here to bicker and argue day in and day out. If Joe decided to shut it down who are they going to argue with?

I don’t know why they want it shut down. But it’s very clear they do. Many of them have posted in this thread that they would like to see it shut down.

You think that the very people who come here day in and day out want to make it so they cant come here day in and day out?

I never even thought of of the idea but if I were Joseph, I would close it down.


Another question, aren't there other places/forums that are better suited for these discussions? A fantasy football board is your ideal place to discuss politics?

I have no idea. But I’ve sampled other discussion boards and by far this has been the best one I’ve seen. But then, I don’t want a board in which most of the people agree with me. And despite the complaints of some, that’s never been the case here.

 

[HellToupee]

Everyone is missing the nuance

Another question, aren't there other places/forums that are better suited for these discussions? A fantasy football board is your ideal place to discuss politics?

i like the accounts that just registrar and immediately start posting in here

 

[Joe Bryant]

I don’t know why they want it shut down. But it’s very clear they do. Many of them have posted in this thread that they would like to see it shut down

I'm not sure how you couldn't know why folks have said they'd like to see it shut down. The people who posted have been pretty clear about why. @Capella gave you an answer as soon as you posted:

it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point? You’re fooling yourself saying there is great discussion here, it’s kind of a hellhole.

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

That may not fit with the "extreme trolls would like to get this place shut down" narrative. But it seemed pretty clear on what he was saying and why.

 

[Joe Bryant]

But there are still ridiculously smart people that post here. People that challenge one's beliefs if you let them. So maybe, just maybe a fantasy football board simply attracts those people.

Agreed. I'm convinced a big part of us being able to attract (and keep) smart posters is our moderating. We made it a respectful place to be and discuss.

In my opinion, that's gradually eroded over the years in the PSF with the passive aggressive snarkiness and condescending shots.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

and I disagree adamantly on politics

On some things we do indeed disagree. On other things we agree, though. I have no problem with your stance on "wokeness" and other things of that ilk. I have no problem with a high self-resiliency, low-taxation state. I'm not heavy into LGBT+ rights, because of what the "T" entails and what the more radical fringes of the other initials advocate. I don't have a bootstrapping argument problem. My stance on BLM and other social issues like that is moderate, at best. I'd get run out of modern liberal circles. MSNBC wouldn't have me. CNN wouldn't either. Heck, most corporations would want to fire me because I'm too conservative for woke capital.

But your point is taken, and it's good that we get along in other parts of the forum. I enjoy that and appreciate you as a human, STEADY.

Back at you. It sounds like we’re closer than I thought.

Also, how much can you ever dislike somebody who uses one of my most favorite high-brow insults, troglodyte?

 

[timschochet]

I don’t know why they want it shut down. But it’s very clear they do. Many of them have posted in this thread that they would like to see it shut down

I'm not sure how you couldn't know why folks have said they'd like to see it shut down. The people who posted have been pretty clear about why. @Capella gave you an answer as soon as you posted:

it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point? You’re fooling yourself saying there is great discussion here, it’s kind of a hellhole.

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

That may not fit with the "extreme trolls would like to get this place shut down" narrative. But it seemed pretty clear on what he was saying and why.

Yes he was clear. Not everybody has the same motive.

Look Joe I don’t want to believe the “extreme trolls” narrative. I’d be happy if I was wrong. Quite possibly I am.

 

[GoBirds]

Everyone is missing the nuance

Another question, aren't there other places/forums that are better suited for these discussions? A fantasy football board is your ideal place to discuss politics?

i like the accounts that just registrar and immediately start posting in here

That’s just the guys like JD that were supposed to be banned but then are able to come back with multiple accounts, same schtick.

 

[sho nuff]

Is it okay to when the guy that constantly asks gotcha questions but refuses to answer questions is telling others a message board isn’t for them?

Seriously
What the **** is going on in here ??

Who knows man. They really need to do something about the mental health problems in this country.

Are you insinuating I have mental health problems?

 

[Mitchie]

I don’t know why they want it shut down. But it’s very clear they do. Many of them have posted in this thread that they would like to see it shut down

I'm not sure how you couldn't know why folks have said they'd like to see it shut down. The people who posted have been pretty clear about why. @Capella gave you an answer as soon as you posted:

it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point? You’re fooling yourself saying there is great discussion here, it’s kind of a hellhole.

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

That may not fit with the "extreme trolls would like to get this place shut down" narrative. But it seemed pretty clear on what he was saying and why.

I've posted this before but don't understand why any posters would want it shut down. If they don't like it, seems easy enough to just stay out of the forum. Maybe they just don't have the self-control to do that, like not wanting a pack of cigarettes lying around when trying to stop smoking but not sure if that should impact the rest of us.

Now with that said I could completely understand why you would want to shut it down.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Is it okay to when the guy that constantly asks gotcha questions but refuses to answer questions is telling others a message board isn’t for them?

Seriously
What the **** is going on in here ??

Who knows man. They really need to do something about the mental health problems in this country.

Are you insinuating I have mental health problems?

Nope. I was talking about @Ghost Rider

 

[dkp993]

Another question, aren't there other places/forums that are better suited for these discussions? A fantasy football board is your ideal place to discuss politics?

This place has taken some seriously loses over the years. But there are still ridiculously smart people that post here. People that challenge one's beliefs if you let them. So maybe, just maybe a fantasy football board simply attracts those people.

Wouldn't it be better if we all got along like we used to? @rockaction and I disagree adamantly on politics but we get along swimmingly in the FFA. He is one of my most favorite posters. In here, not so much.

Is it really worth it?

See that’s what I enjoy and is also a better reflexion of life, we don’t always have to agree. If fact in our disagreements we learn more. It’s all about being respectful. Some of my favorite people here I disagree with.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Agreed. I'm convinced a big part of us being able to attract (and keep) smart posters is our moderating. We made it a respectful place to be and discuss.

In my opinion, that's gradually eroded over the years in the PSF with the passive aggressive snarkiness and condescending shots.

How do I say that I know that the moderation policies are effective without seemingly bragging? But Joe, my first season of fantasy football was the year prior to Cheatsheets. I first encountered your name, and @Maurile Tremblay 's, and few others (some that were here those early years) on whatever those internet groups were called way back then. There was no way in hell I would enter those conversations. I was never on any other fantasy forums but sort of heard of them. I had no intention of ever posting here either, but about 24 hours after Football Guys was born on 5/2/01 I was (bragging again) member #121. I ventured into the waters, and it was safe and productive. This place was different. And it still is.

That being said I'm guessing that just like how a fantasy football site brings in some smart people, it also brings those "trash talkers" which is expressed here in that snarkiness.

I have no clue what you and your moderators put up with to make this work. I am sure I have created work from time to time and may be even one of those that tip toes the line. I hope not, but we all have our moments. And I have had them. Sorry about those, but the point being I'm not going to argue over whether it is "worth it". Or tell you how to fix anything as if I will know better. But I am going to hope that at the end of the day you decide that it is worth it. And hope that political flareups stop happening during your "silly season" (meaning when you're slammed).

 

[Da Guru]

I don’t know why they want it shut down. But it’s very clear they do. Many of them have posted in this thread that they would like to see it shut down

I'm not sure how you couldn't know why folks have said they'd like to see it shut down. The people who posted have been pretty clear about why. @Capella gave you an answer as soon as you posted:

it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point? You’re fooling yourself saying there is great discussion here, it’s kind of a hellhole.

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

That may not fit with the "extreme trolls would like to get this place shut down" narrative. But it seemed pretty clear on what he was saying and why.

Yes he was clear. Not everybody has the same motive.

Look Joe I don’t want to believe the “extreme trolls” narrative. I’d be happy if I was wrong. Quite possibly I am.

I think you are looking for some sort of conspiracy theory that does not exist.

When you say people post stuff to get the PSF shut down that is incorrect. Those type of posts have been going on for years here. That is just the way it has evolved here. It is not any worse now than the last 5 years. It has been bad for a long time. The FFA and SP are not like that at all.

Capella`s post pretty much summed it up.

 

[Joe Bryant]

How do I say that I know that the moderation policies are effective without seemingly bragging? But Joe, my first season of fantasy football was the year prior to Cheatsheets. I first encountered your name, and @Maurile Tremblay 's, and few others (some that were here those early years) on whatever those internet groups were called way back then. There was no way in hell I would enter those conversations. I was never on any other fantasy forums but sort of heard of them. I had no intention of ever posting here either, but about 24 hours after Football Guys was born on 5/2/01 I was (bragging again) member #121. I ventured into the waters, and it was safe and productive. This place was different. And it still is.

That being said I'm guessing that just like how a fantasy football site brings in some smart people, it also brings those "trash talkers" which is expressed here in that snarkiness.

I have no clue what you and your moderators put up with to make this work. I am sure I have created work from time to time and may be even one of those that tip toes the line. I hope not, but we all have our moments. And I have had them. Sorry about those, but the point being I'm not going to argue over whether it is "worth it". Or tell you how to fix anything as if I will know better. But I am going to hope that at the end of the day you decide that it is worth it. And hope that political flareups stop happening during your "silly season" (meaning when you're slammed).

Thanks GB.

That's a far cry better than the other messages I get.

This one from a few hours ago "Eat a ####, Joe. You lost my business forever when you decided to censor people for stating their opinions on your message board. Communist don’t get my business"

Oh well.

 

[dkp993]

I don’t know why they want it shut down. But it’s very clear they do. Many of them have posted in this thread that they would like to see it shut down

I'm not sure how you couldn't know why folks have said they'd like to see it shut down. The people who posted have been pretty clear about why. @Capella gave you an answer as soon as you posted:

it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point? You’re fooling yourself saying there is great discussion here, it’s kind of a hellhole.

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

That may not fit with the "extreme trolls would like to get this place shut down" narrative. But it seemed pretty clear on what he was saying and why.

Yes he was clear. Not everybody has the same motive.

Look Joe I don’t want to believe the “extreme trolls” narrative. I’d be happy if I was wrong. Quite possibly I am.

I think you are looking for some sort of conspiracy theory that does not exist.

When you say people post stuff to get the PSF shut down that is incorrect. Those type of posts have been going on for years here. That is just the way it has evolved here. It is not any worse now than the last 5 years. It has been bad for a long time. The FFA and SP are not like that at all.

Capella`s post pretty much summed it up.

Look, I think you Guru and Cap are fantastic posters, really do. But if you have such strong feelings about the PSF why come in?

While I’m not on Tim’s shut done theory I will say I’ve been a bit surprised by some posters here reaction. There are PSF regulars (post here every day multiple times) who are saying it should be shut down. That makes zero sense and I can understand how Tim could think how he does. It leads one to think there are motivations at play.*

Maybe if one thinks this place is a cesspool or not worthy of being around should fine a better way to spend their time?



*again for clairity I’m not saying that anyone is doing it I’m just saying I can understand how someone could think that.

 

[jon_mx]

The laughing emoji is not what is offensive, it is the lack of a substantive arguement to explain what issue you are taking. You can hate every post I have ever made, but I back my posts up with an arguement explaining what exceptions I am taking to the point and why I think it is wrong. The most ignorant posts are those which just dismiss posts without making any point. Of course I just got two weeks off for calling such posts ignorant.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I think one thing that's especially sad about the "Eat a ####" message above is this particular person had been someone I'd communicated with in super friendly terms with over the years. Not a ton but we'd had 3-4 really nice interactions laughing about Random Shots stuff and such. Then next thing I know, he's sending me messages like that.

That's a bummer.

 

[Da Guru]

I don’t know why they want it shut down. But it’s very clear they do. Many of them have posted in this thread that they would like to see it shut down

I'm not sure how you couldn't know why folks have said they'd like to see it shut down. The people who posted have been pretty clear about why. @Capella gave you an answer as soon as you posted:

it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point? You’re fooling yourself saying there is great discussion here, it’s kind of a hellhole.

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

That may not fit with the "extreme trolls would like to get this place shut down" narrative. But it seemed pretty clear on what he was saying and why.

Yes he was clear. Not everybody has the same motive.

Look Joe I don’t want to believe the “extreme trolls” narrative. I’d be happy if I was wrong. Quite possibly I am.

I think you are looking for some sort of conspiracy theory that does not exist.

When you say people post stuff to get the PSF shut down that is incorrect. Those type of posts have been going on for years here. That is just the way it has evolved here. It is not any worse now than the last 5 years. It has been bad for a long time. The FFA and SP are not like that at all.

Capella`s post pretty much summed it up.

Look, I think you Guru and Cap are fantastic posters, really do. But if you have such strong feelings about the PSF why come in?

While I’m not on Tim’s shut done theory I will say I’ve been a bit surprised by some posters here reaction. There are PSF regulars (post here every day multiple times) who are saying it should be shut down. That makes zero sense and I can understand how Tim could think how he does. It leads one to think there are motivations at play.*

Maybe if one thinks this place is a cesspool or not worthy of being around should fine a better way to spend their time?



*again for clairity I’m not saying that anyone is doing it I’m just saying I can understand how someone could think that.

I go the the FFA and read the SP most of the time and still check in here. Not nearly as much in the PSF anymore just because of basically what Capella said. With the coming elections you know dam well it will be a cesspool of chest thumping one way or the other.

I never said shut it down, Just would not be surprised if it happened.

 

[Joe Bryant]

And that maybe goes back to the person who asked earlier if the boards cost our business money. It certainly seems to with that former customer.

 

[The Big Donkey]

How do I say that I know that the moderation policies are effective without seemingly bragging? But Joe, my first season of fantasy football was the year prior to Cheatsheets. I first encountered your name, and @Maurile Tremblay 's, and few others (some that were here those early years) on whatever those internet groups were called way back then. There was no way in hell I would enter those conversations. I was never on any other fantasy forums but sort of heard of them. I had no intention of ever posting here either, but about 24 hours after Football Guys was born on 5/2/01 I was (bragging again) member #121. I ventured into the waters, and it was safe and productive. This place was different. And it still is.

That being said I'm guessing that just like how a fantasy football site brings in some smart people, it also brings those "trash talkers" which is expressed here in that snarkiness.

I have no clue what you and your moderators put up with to make this work. I am sure I have created work from time to time and may be even one of those that tip toes the line. I hope not, but we all have our moments. And I have had them. Sorry about those, but the point being I'm not going to argue over whether it is "worth it". Or tell you how to fix anything as if I will know better. But I am going to hope that at the end of the day you decide that it is worth it. And hope that political flareups stop happening during your "silly season" (meaning when you're slammed).

Thanks GB.

That's a far cry better than the other messages I get.

This one from a few hours ago "Eat a ####, Joe. You lost my business forever when you decided to censor people for stating their opinions on your message board. Communist don’t get my business"

Oh well.

Joe, you have done so much good for the fantasy football community and your own community with the bbq, and probably additional things I don't know about. It's sad to me that you would get message like that.

 

[belljr]

I'm not very political and really am left and right on a variety of issues. I have been called a far left liberal if I make a point that might support that side on something. :

The main issue I see is almost everyone just posts what about, your side did this, or just gotchas without real discussion.

Most dont want to have a real discussion or talk about policies. Hell most people won't denounce crazies if they're on their side.

It's always zomg but this was ok how can you now believe this. People are still railing and quoting **** from 2 years ago about COVID. This was said in 2020 how come it changed now. Idk because it was something we never seen before. It's just exhausting watching the same dumb arguments and talking points over and over about team red vs blue. Team red feels this way so I have to go down with the ship and be snarky about it. Team blue said this so better stick with them on the soap box. It's bizarre, cult like and crazy that people won't admit they are wrong/ changed their mind/or even think about a point "against their side"

80% of the crap people get worked up over aren't even actual freaking policies. It's all red meat talking points.

Anyway that's my outsider take that no one asked for

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Thanks GB.

That's a far cry better than the other messages I get.

This one from a few hours ago "Eat a ####, Joe. You lost my business forever when you decided to censor people for stating their opinions on your message board. Communist don’t get my business"

Oh well.

Customer is always right

Okay maybe not.

Customer is not always right, but you try to make them think they are

Okay, sometimes you can't win for losing.

Sorry that this place that I enjoy cost you that moment.

 

[jamny]

How do I say that I know that the moderation policies are effective without seemingly bragging? But Joe, my first season of fantasy football was the year prior to Cheatsheets. I first encountered your name, and @Maurile Tremblay 's, and few others (some that were here those early years) on whatever those internet groups were called way back then. There was no way in hell I would enter those conversations. I was never on any other fantasy forums but sort of heard of them. I had no intention of ever posting here either, but about 24 hours after Football Guys was born on 5/2/01 I was (bragging again) member #121. I ventured into the waters, and it was safe and productive. This place was different. And it still is.

That being said I'm guessing that just like how a fantasy football site brings in some smart people, it also brings those "trash talkers" which is expressed here in that snarkiness.

I have no clue what you and your moderators put up with to make this work. I am sure I have created work from time to time and may be even one of those that tip toes the line. I hope not, but we all have our moments. And I have had them. Sorry about those, but the point being I'm not going to argue over whether it is "worth it". Or tell you how to fix anything as if I will know better. But I am going to hope that at the end of the day you decide that it is worth it. And hope that political flareups stop happening during your "silly season" (meaning when you're slammed).

Thanks GB.

That's a far cry better than the other messages I get.

This one from a few hours ago "Eat a ####, Joe. You lost my business forever when you decided to censor people for stating their opinions on your message board. Communist don’t get my business"

Oh well.

That person really should be ashamed of themselves. Pathetic and sorry you have to deal with that Joe.

 

[tymarsas]

Thanks GB.

That's a far cry better than the other messages I get.

This one from a few hours ago "Eat a ####, Joe. You lost my business forever when you decided to censor people for stating their opinions on your message board. Communist don’t get my business"

Oh well.

I'm sorry you have to deal with stuff like that.

I'd love to see the PSF keep going. It provides me with entertainment and perspectives that I might not otherwise hear. I enjoy the forum regardless of how bad it gets.

But based on this message, it would probably be a good idea to shut it down. It is clearly a net negative to your business. And we can't even agree on what is considered rude. If we can't agree on what makes for civil conversation then there is little hope that this forum will ever improve. The message you quoted makes it obvious that regardless of moderation this will always be a negative to the business. I'd hate to see it go, but it makes sense imo.

 

[The General]

I think one thing that's especially sad about the "Eat a ####" message above is this particular person had been someone I'd communicated with in super friendly terms with over the years. Not a ton but we'd had 3-4 really nice interactions laughing about Random Shots stuff and such. Then next thing I know, he's sending me messages like that.

That's a bummer.

They can eat a ****! I’ll say it for you

 

[Joe Bryant]

Hey Folks. I'm sorry, I didn't mean that to sound so whiny as it did. And it did sound whiny.

I get lots of uncomfortable mail. I'm sure most anyone who runs a public type business like ours does. I'm not unique there.

I think the thing that really stuck out and the point I meant to make was the change. This person had previously sent really friendly and fun emails to me talking about how much he loved Random shots and we shared some talk about other goofy stuff. As recently as 2020. But somehow, enough changed for him on our forums that he'd now feel this about me/FBG. I admittedly care too much about pleasing people but that just seems sad to me it would change that much.

 

[moleculo]

PSF, on it's own, is clearly a negative because it draws attention away from the other forums. No one joins FBG because of the PSF. However, it's a necessary negative because it keeps the slag out of the FFA, and by extension, the shark pool.

Personally, I find a lot of value here. I enjoy reading opinions from both sides. There are some shark cookies here, much better commentary and insight than one can find on the typical news shows. It's a good thing to challenge one's opinions and understand their validity.

I would hate having to find another site for the same discussions. Read it is even more of a cesspool - 100s of thousands of people whom I haven't discussed things with for years, competing for the most karma (which comes mostly from snark). It's much worse.

 

[Rubiobot]

In addition to the things already said, there are some posts that are toxic and almost seems designed to rile people up instead of being said in a more respectful way which would generate more respectful responses. That's what caused that last thread to get locked up.

 

[Rubiobot]

Hey Folks. I'm sorry, I didn't mean that to sound so whiny as it did. And it did sound whiny.

I get lots of uncomfortable mail. I'm sure most anyone who runs a public type business like ours does. I'm not unique there.

I think the thing that really stuck out and the point I meant to make was the change. This person had previously sent really friendly and fun emails to me talking about how much he loved Random shots and we shared some talk about other goofy stuff. As recently as 2020. But somehow, enough changed for him on our forums that he'd now feel this about me/FBG. I admittedly care too much about pleasing people but that just seems sad to me it would change that much.

It's my life experience that suggests that person might have more serious life issues that caused him to, for lack of a better word, snap. It could have just been the so called straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[Joe Bryant]

It's my life experience that suggests that person might have more serious life issues that caused him to, for lack of a better word, snap. It could have just been the so called straw that broke the camel's back.

Absolutely. You just never know what's going on with someone. "Hurt people hurt people" is a true thing I believe. I choose to take that tact with the off the scale feedback I get.