Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
This isn't quite right. It's being requested they be removed from the House Republican Conference, not the J6 Select Committee.
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Agree or Disagree? Donald Trump Controls The Republican Party And Republicans Must Yield To Him (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
sho nuff
Footballguy
quick-hands
Footballguy
He was speaking when the breach happened. Trump had no clue what was gonna occur. The first witness that should have been called was Pelosi. Since she was in charge of security. But she got to pick the Republicans on the committee. Talk about conflict of interest.
Now answer my question.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
By that logic, should all the GOP members of the Benghazi investigations have recused themselves? Should all the GOP members of the Clinton impeachment have recused themselves?
quick-hands
Footballguy
No because their party leader appointed them. I refer you back to how this has been done since the beginning of the republic.
This committee is a joke. And when the Republicans retake the house and open the biden Chinese investigation I hope they return to norms and let Pelosi pick her democrats.
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Rich Conway
Footballguy
If the GOP wanted a say in how it would operate, they shouldn't have blocked the formation of the bipartisan committee. I'm unaware of any provision in any legislation or set of operating procedures that calls for Cheney and Kinzinger to recuse themselves, as you suggested. Feel free to point me to something, though.
quick-hands
Footballguy
Blocked it? They where against it. But when Pelosi formed her committee they appointed sitting house of representatives to the committee.
Republicans can't block anything in the house.
Political witch hunt.
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
McQarthy has given away complete control of the process and the messaging. They'd better get Mark Meadows in front of the Committee ASAP to set the record straight.
Dickies
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the congressional oversight only apply to the Capitol Police and not the National Guard, which comes under the DoD? Wouldn't Hannity and Trump's family try to get in touch with Pelosi if they thought she could do something, rather than pleading with Trump and his staff?
Coach Beard
Footballguy
The first Congressional effort to form an investigation of 1/6 was assembling a nonpartisan commission, similar to how the 9/11 commission was formed. Forming a commission like that required passage in both chambers. Both parties negotiated how the commission would be formed, its scope, and approximate timeline. McCarthy’s three main demands on behalf of the House GOP were agreed to, including completing all work and publishing all findings by the end of the 2021 calendar year.
The bill to form the commission passed easily in the House with bipartisan support (252 votes for it). But when it went to the Senate, Trump expressed his opposition to the formation of any investigative body, McConnell and McCarthy withdrew their support, and the bill died in the Senate.
The 1/6 Select Committee was formed only after the 1/6 commission, which was agreed to by both parties and gave McCarthy the three main things he demanded be included, failed to take shape when Trump publicly said he didn’t want it to happen.
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quick-hands
Footballguy
Correct me if I'm wrong. But the national guard wasn't there till much later. And Pelosi didn't ask for help before the event. It was basically a skeleton crew.
quick-hands
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
The National Guard not being there till much later is an issue the DoD should answer for as they command the DC NG. Not Pelosi. Whether or not there were sufficient Capitol Police on duty is another issue. Was that Pelosi's fault? I don't know, but I'd love to find the reasons behind both issues, wouldn't you?
The D.C National Guard was formed in 1802 by President Thomas Jefferson to defend the newly created District of Columbia. As such, the Commanding General of the D.C. National Guard is subordinate solely to the President of the United States.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
The Maryland National Guard was reportedly ready and waiting for the word to go in as the situation escalated. I would really like to know the communications that were happening at that point. Did someone actively delay them?
Coach Beard
Footballguy
It’s evidence that Trump controls the Republican Party and Republicans must yield to him.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Negative. But if you need to sleep better at night then you go right ahead and make stuff up.
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
Well, there are facts.....and then there are lies. It's telling when folks keep repeating lies even after the truth has been shown to them repeatedly. Alternative facts are lies.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Of course. 100%.
By 2024 he'll be mostly irrelevant though, IMO.
We need to get somebody that's not 150 years old representing us too.
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dkp993
Footballguy
from your lips to gods ears
couldn’t agree more*.
Thats twice in one week. Watch out it’s getting crazy up in here.
Coach Beard
Footballguy
Both parties spent a couple months negotiating the 1/6 Commission. McCarthy got all the big things he demanded. It was a done deal negotiated in good faith by both sides. When the bill forming the 1/6 Commission went up for a vote in the House, 35 Republicans voted for it. 252 Yea votes is an extraordinary showing of bipartisanship for this era. After the 1/6 Commission published their report at the end of the year, Republicans in purple districts could run for re-election on it in 2022. Could campaign on their role in helping the American people learn the truth about what happened on 1/6 so it wouldn’t happen again.BladeRunner said:
It was a really good deal for Trump, too. Because of the end date McCarthy demanded, the commission would have to start wrapping up the investigative portion by around Thanksgiving 2021 to get all their findings published by the deadline. So a lot of damning evidence could have been stalled in court delays and not been included.
None of the tranches of documents the National Archives started handing over to the 1/6 Select Committee a couple weeks ago would have been included in the 1/6 Commission report because the courts wouldn’t have ruled on Trump’s claim of executive privilege in time.
But Trump didn’t want the 1/6 Commission formed and said so. GOP Congressional leadership could have followed through on the deal they made after months of work, a deal that would have been better for Trump than any commission or committee the House would form without bipartisan approval and no set end date. But instead they listened to Trump and made sure the 1/6 Commission never got to a vote in the Senate.
Saying this is evidence that Trump is the one running the GOP show is a more charitable interpretation than any that removes Trump from consideration. What’s the explanation if it isn’t Trump’s influence? That the GOP was too dumb to recognize what a great deal they made and backed out? The GOP as a whole was acting in bad faith all along and just trying to run some clock? The GOP wants Trump around holding rallies on weekends claiming the election was stolen and when he’s back in office he will pardon those convicted for offenses related to 1/6?
If there’s a better explanation than Trump’s influence and meddling, help me understand it.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
I appreciate your well thought out rebuttal to my post. Thanks - it's really good.
I'm not saying Trump doesn't have ANY influence in the GOP, because it's obvious he still does. My beef is the "Trump CONTROLS the GOP" argument. He doesn't as evidenced by politicians like Cheney and by people like me (the average conservative voter).
I believe those conservatives who hold onto Trump right now are mostly doing so because of the treatment Trump got during his Presidency with the sham investigations, accusations and unfair bias of the MSM. Now, Trump didn't do himself any favors either, but one cannot look at what happened between 2016-2020 and NOT see how everything was purposefully amped up to 11 to stoke the fires. Basically, Trump wasn't given a chance or a fair shake from Day 1 and that sticks in the craw of many of us conservatives.
Also, this continued relentless pursuit of "Get Trump" isn't helping either. I think going after past Presidents opens the door to more abuse of power in the future - the next time it might be your guy for one BS reason or another. If you want people to stop focusing on Trump, the you guys (and Congress) need to STOP FOCUSING ON TRUMP! This behavior is actually pushing conservatives towards Trump, not away from him.
Now, you and others may disagree with the above assessment but I can tell you from a conservative perspective that it is there and it is real.
However, I think more and more conservatives are coming to the realization that we need a better representative for us. Trump, IMO, was a flash in the pan that has now run it's course. As we get closer to 2024, his influence gets weaker and weaker. As new candidates emerge (like DeSantis) conservatives will pivot to the better (and younger) options.
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Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
This may be a more "meta" statement, but the two posts above provide excellent commentary.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Naturally, I take issue with the contention that the media and Democratic minorities in Congress prevented Trump from accomplishing good policies.
His personal unfitness was his undoing. He was ignorant and unwilling to become informed. He was openly deceitful (remember the stacks of papers at one press conference, all purporting to be Trump's health care plan? A plan that nobody was allowed to read?). That's just laughably stupid.
And if there was understandable massive resistance, bear in mind that that's at least partly attributable to our screwy election system that let the guy with three million fewer votes win in the first place. He never had a popular mandate and he did nothing to help himself procure one.
Lose this guy and move on, my Republican friends.
His personal unfitness was his undoing. He was ignorant and unwilling to become informed. He was openly deceitful (remember the stacks of papers at one press conference, all purporting to be Trump's health care plan? A plan that nobody was allowed to read?). That's just laughably stupid.
And if there was understandable massive resistance, bear in mind that that's at least partly attributable to our screwy election system that let the guy with three million fewer votes win in the first place. He never had a popular mandate and he did nothing to help himself procure one.
Lose this guy and move on, my Republican friends.
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dkp993
Footballguy
Good well thought out posts by both you and @Coach Beard, thank you.
I would like to address one point though. There’s a whole other group you missed in this analysis that also are a major factor in Trumps relevance, if fact I’d say they are the most important factor. The large faction of the Conservative party that see him and treat him as a messiah. They are the only reason he’s relevant or has whatever power he has. They won’t stop focusing on Trump so the rest (congress and the media) continue their obsession. His power comes from his large dedicated base which is squarely in your backyard. Hell the Trump thread here never leaves page 1 and it’s usually in the top half of the page. Is some of that reason due to Trump haters, sure, no doubt. But the other reason is his followers are keeping it alive. It’s a perfect microcosm of what’s happening in the real world.
pinkham13
Footballguy
Coming from you, an operation warp speed supporter, this seems like double speak. You support Trump, the liar in chiefs, twit minded operation speed fully because now it’s under Biden. I can’t seem to reconcile how you can not support trump but support his disastrous untested unsafe and ineffective big Pharma shots. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study
dkp993
Footballguy
I know this sounds strange but just because I don’t support someone doesn’t mean I can’t acknowledge something good they’ve done. Crazy nowadays I know.
You and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on the shots. I have no interest in wasting my time on that discussion with you. It’s futile and will go no where.
From 2017-2021, Cheney voted in line with Trump’s position 92.9% of the time, according to FiveThirtyEight’s tracker, while Stefanik voted with the former president just 77.7% of the time.
The fact that Cheney was given the boot from her #3 position of the Republican House for electing to be on the 1/6 committee and Stefanik given the position for her new found allegiance to Trump as well the RNC Caucus looking to kick Cheney and Kinzinger out is all you need to know about this thread’s question.
The fact that Cheney was given the boot from her #3 position of the Republican House for electing to be on the 1/6 committee and Stefanik given the position for her new found allegiance to Trump as well the RNC Caucus looking to kick Cheney and Kinzinger out is all you need to know about this thread’s question.
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beef
Footballguy
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Hey Trump - I voted for you in 2016 because I liked your positions. But when I pulled the lever I pinched my nose, because I knew that you were a narcissistic idiot. After what I saw on January 6th you are dead to me. I don't care how good your policies are, the Office of President requires a modicum of respectability, and you my friend have none. I had hoped you'd learn from it, but you never did. So sail off into the sunset. You aren't needed here anymore.
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SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
The first statement doesn't preclude the second statement.
Rather than highlighting the moment when the breach happened, consider
a. the days and hours leading up to the beach and the statement made by Trump and his legions. look up the words foment and incite.
b. the moment of the breach, and a real and honest assessment of the violence that occurred against our nation.
c. the moments immediately following the breach and what Trump did not say and what Trump attempted to do.
Be careful what you say....Mike Pence's family is listening.
The General
Footballguy
Hopefully the @BladeRunner of the world are correct and this guy is long gone in 3 years.
But, today it’s hard for me to see how he isn’t at least somewhat heavily influencing what is going on in the party.
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
BladeRunner
Footballguy
I get it. You've made up your mind. Nothing's going to change it because, well, that's what you've been told to believe.
There is a reason why your cohorts in the media are purposefully putting this front and center and amping it up. Ask yourself why.
The RNC is going to vote on censuring Cheney and Kinzinger. You don’t do something like this unless you want to send a message. If you want to send a message you want the media to talk about it don’t you? Or are they doing it for an audience of one which is really sick?
Liz Cheney today..
"Leaders of the Republican Party have made themselves willing hostages to a man who admits he tried to overturn a presidential election and suggests he would pardon January 6 defendants, some of whom have been charged with seditious conspiracy," she said. "I’m a constitutional conservative and I do not recognize those in my party who have abandoned the Constitution to embrace Donald Trump. History will be their judge."
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Coach Beard
Footballguy
Thanks for the compliment. It’s easy to write well thought-out rebuttals when the facts are on your side.
Liz Cheney’s journey the last couple years is an excellent example of Trump being the one in charge of the GOP. Cheney voted with Trump over 90% of the time when he was President. In the previous session she was the House Republican Conference chair, third-ranking among House Republicans, a position held by many who went on to become Speaker, plus a few future Vice Presidents. It’s the highest-ranking House position a female Republican has ever held.
Then Cheney voted for the second impeachment of Trump.
Wyoming GOP censures her for voting for impeachment.
House Republicans from other states, including Matt Gaetz, start showing up in Wyoming to drum up support for primary challengers to oust Cheney from office.
House Republicans remove her as House Republican Chair.
Voting with Trump over 90% of the time wasn’t sufficiently loyal enough to stay in power. Nor was having very close ties to pretty much all Republican leadership of the past 35 years.
Then Cheney accepted an invitation to join the 1/6 Select Committee.
Wyoming GOP votes to no longer recognize Cheney as a Republican.
Tomorrow, the RNC will vote to censure Cheney (and Adam Kinzinger) for participating in the 1/6 Select Committee. A resolution to boot them from the House Republican conference came really close to making it out of committee for a vote. Censure is the “watered-down” version of this resolution.
So you’re offering Liz Cheney as evidence that Trump doesn’t control the GOP, when the GOP in Cheney’s own state no longer recognizes her as a Republican, the RNC spent hours this week trying to decide how to punish Cheney for being on the 1/6 Select Committee, Trump allies from all over the country are tripping over each other to distance themselves from Cheney and get her out of office and the party, and Trump’s PAC will spend millions on a primary challenge against Cheney this year.
What about that looks like support of Cheney’s present and future in the Republican Party to you? She went from highest-ranking Republican woman in the House to being on the business end of party-led efforts at the state and national level to get rid of her. In less than a year. In a political party that stood firm in support of House Republicans facing felony charges while running for re-election the last couple cycles, so it’s not like the participation bar is set very high if you’re willing to defer to Trump.
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Rich Conway
Footballguy
"Legitimate political discourse"
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Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
It should be the end of the GOP as a serious political party in this country. They are fringe cowards unworthy of their station in our history anymore. Maybe they should try reading a book instead of burning them.
Yes I'm livid.
Coach Beard
Footballguy
The RNC passed a resolution today that concluded:
“RESOLVED, That the Republican National Committee hereby formally censures Representatives Liz Cheney of Wyoming and Adam Kinzinger of Illinois and shall immediately cease any and all support of them as members of the Republican Party for their behavior which has been destructive to the institution of the U.S. House of Representatives, the Republican Party and our republic, and is inconsistent with the position of the Conference.”
This passed by voice vote. It wasn’t close. A resolution that would have formally kicked them both out of the House Republican Conference almost got out of committee. This is the watered-down version than was compromised on and passed so easily they didn’t have to stop to count the votes.
Read the Full Resolution Here
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SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Coach Beard
Footballguy
The bummer is it didn’t have to be this way.
There was an easy path to victory for Republicans in 2016 by embracing immigration reform. Take the Reagan/GHWB path of positioning immigration demand as proof America is a shining beacon on a hill. Or the Rubio path of codifying the DACA-like deal he helped negotiate to actually becoming law after it got so close on the last attempt. Or the Kasich path of finding the millions here illegally who have living peaceful lives and working jobs, put them on payment plans for any monies owed, get them documented, and let them live freely and safely and raise their kids here and have the better life they came here for.
Any combo of these would have been an easy win over Hillary Clinton.
The party chose Build A Wall And Mexico Will Pay For It spoken by the man who made himself famous in the party by making it popular to claim Obama wasn’t really an American and wasn’t rightfully elected President.
It’s been all downhill since then. Or since David Bowie died. I’ll have the double check the calendar on that.
joffer
Footballguy
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