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Agree or Disagree? Donald Trump Controls The Republican Party And Republicans Must Yield To Him (1 Viewer)

I identify mostly Independent: Agree or Disagree? Donald Trump Controls The Republican Party And Rep

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Coach Beard said:
The RNC passed a resolution today that concluded:

“RESOLVED, That the Republican National Committee hereby formally censures Representatives Liz Cheney of Wyoming and Adam Kinzinger of Illinois and shall immediately cease any and all support of them as members of the Republican Party for their behavior which has been destructive to the institution of the U.S. House of Representatives, the Republican Party and our republic, and is inconsistent with the position of the Conference.”

This passed by voice vote.  It wasn’t close.  A resolution that would have formally kicked them both out of the House Republican Conference almost got out of committee.  This is the watered-down version than was compromised on and passed so easily they didn’t have to stop to count the votes.  
 

Read the Full Resolution Here
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Your bias is making you read into things that aren't there.  This has more to do with protesting the sham (like the impeachment BS before it) than it does with Trump "controlling" the GOP.

"To drive home their argument, RNC chair Ronna McDaniel reiterated in a statement that "Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger crossed a line. They chose to join [House Speaker] Nancy Pelosi in a Democrat-led persecution of ordinary citizens who engaged in legitimate political discourse that had nothing to do with violence at the Capitol. That's why Republican National Committee members and myself overwhelmingly support this resolution." "

""Republicans have to stand together and what has happened with the Jan. 6 investigation is that it has become a one-sided witch hunt, where they’re only going after Republicans," Steve Stepanek, the New Hampshire GOP chair and a one of the several dozen co-sponsors of the resolution, told Fox News. "We’re sending a message that we as a party are not going to support these individuals and we feel they should be censured.""

 
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Yeah, today hasn't been a very good day for the "It's not Trump's party anymore" crowd. Nevertheless, there's something I've been thinking about lately: I have no idea if we're going to end up with a Trump v. DeSantis primary in '24, but if we do, it will be a very interesting test of the main question of this thread, and in particular, of the issue that most animates the GOP base.

Trump is clearly all-in on "Stop the Steal". It's pretty much all he talks about at his rallies, and it seems to be the litmus test for any Republican he's considering endorsing (even as he pursues vengeance against Cheney, Kemp, and anyone else who has betrayed him on this issue). Meanwhile -- and I give him credit for this -- he has been pretty vocal about supporting the vaccine. Yes, he opposes any vaccine mandates, but that's usually his second sentence after saying something good about the shots themselves.

DeSantis, meanwhile, is pretty much the polar opposite. He hasn't contradicted Trump on any of the StS stuff, and he has pushed a voting restrictions bill through the FL legislature, but observing him up close, it doesn't seem to be something he goes out of his way to talk about. Meanwhile, he seems to be positioning himself as the leader of the opposition when it comes to vaccine mandates and Covid-related restrictions in general. I'm not going to rehash the debate about whether he's anti-vax, or functionally anti-vax, or whatever, but like I said, I watch the guy a lot, and it's been a good while since I've heard him say anything positive about the vaccine.

Clearly, both issues have resonance with the MAGA base, but given the two men's different points of emphasis, it will be fascinating to see which issue wins out. I honestly have no idea which one I'd put my chips on.

 
GOP is being torn asunder - in addition to the GOP censure and disowning of Cheney and Kinzinger, now Pence is coming out very forcefully:

Pence, in his remarks Friday, described Jan. 6, 2021, as “a dark day in the history of the United States Capitol.”

Pence was inside the building, presiding over the joint session of Congress to certify the presidential election, when a mob of Trump’s supporters violently smashed inside, assaulting police officers and hunting down lawmakers. Pence, who had released a statement earlier that day to make clear he had no authority to overturn the will of the voters, was rushed to safety as some rioters chanted “Hang Mike Pence!”

Pence framed his actions that day as in line with his duty as a constitutional conservative.

“The American people must know that we will always keep our oath to the Constitution, even when it would be politically expedient to do otherwise,” he told the group Friday. He noted that, under Article II Section One of the Constitution, “elections are conducted at the state level, not by Congress” and that “the only role of Congress with respect to the Electoral College is to open and count votes submitted and certified by the states. No more, no less.”

“Frankly there is no idea more un-American than the notion that any one person could choose the American president,” he added. “Under the Constitution, I had no right to change the outcome of our election. And Kamala Harris will have no right to overturn the election when we beat them in 2024.”

Pence also acknowledged the lingering anger among many in Trump’s base. But, he said: “The truth is, there’s more at stake than our party or political fortunes. Men and women, if we lose faith in the Constitution, we won’t just lose elections — we’ll lose our country.”

 
Lots of biased interpretation going on here in order to further The MessageTM.   We know you can't tout anything Biden has done so you got to manufacture something else.

 
Sinn Fein said:
GOP is being torn asunder - in addition to the GOP censure and disowning of Cheney and Kinzinger, now Pence is coming out very forcefully:

Pence, in his remarks Friday, described Jan. 6, 2021, as “a dark day in the history of the United States Capitol.”

Pence was inside the building, presiding over the joint session of Congress to certify the presidential election, when a mob of Trump’s supporters violently smashed inside, assaulting police officers and hunting down lawmakers. Pence, who had released a statement earlier that day to make clear he had no authority to overturn the will of the voters, was rushed to safety as some rioters chanted “Hang Mike Pence!”

Pence framed his actions that day as in line with his duty as a constitutional conservative.

“The American people must know that we will always keep our oath to the Constitution, even when it would be politically expedient to do otherwise,” he told the group Friday. He noted that, under Article II Section One of the Constitution, “elections are conducted at the state level, not by Congress” and that “the only role of Congress with respect to the Electoral College is to open and count votes submitted and certified by the states. No more, no less.”

“Frankly there is no idea more un-American than the notion that any one person could choose the American president,” he added. “Under the Constitution, I had no right to change the outcome of our election. And Kamala Harris will have no right to overturn the election when we beat them in 2024.”

Pence also acknowledged the lingering anger among many in Trump’s base. But, he said: “The truth is, there’s more at stake than our party or political fortunes. Men and women, if we lose faith in the Constitution, we won’t just lose elections — we’ll lose our country.”
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Rino and traitor!

 
BladeRunner said:
Except they aren't on your side.  :shrug:

What you have is opinions, innuendo and extreme bias in interpretation.  I stand by my post above.
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And yet you passed on the opportunity to dispute any facts in the fact patterns I’ve posted in multiple replies.  

If you’re interested in substantive discussion, I’m here for it.  If all you have to offer is calling me delusional and biased without addressing substance, I’m done with you.

 
Coach Beard said:
And yet you passed on the opportunity to dispute any facts in the fact patterns I’ve posted in multiple replies.  

If you’re interested in substantive discussion, I’m here for it.  If all you have to offer is calling me delusional and biased without addressing substance, I’m done with you.
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You listed one example and extrapolated that out to "TRUMP CONTROLS THE PARTY".  :shrug:  

Also, I don't remember calling you any of those things.  In fact, I actually complimented your post above.

 
Coach Beard said:
The bummer is it didn’t have to be this way.  

There was an easy path to victory for Republicans in 2016 by embracing immigration reform.  Take the Reagan/GHWB path of positioning immigration demand as proof America is a shining beacon on a hill.  Or the Rubio path of codifying the DACA-like deal he helped negotiate to actually becoming law after it got so close on the last attempt.  Or the Kasich path of finding the millions here illegally who have living peaceful lives and working jobs, put them on payment plans for any monies owed, get them documented, and let them live freely and safely and raise their kids here and have the better life they came here for.
 

Any combo of these would have been an easy win over Hillary Clinton.  

The party chose Build A Wall And Mexico Will Pay For It spoken by the man who made himself famous in the party by making it popular to claim Obama wasn’t really an American and wasn’t rightfully elected President.  

It’s been all downhill since then.  Or since David Bowie died.  I’ll have the double check the calendar on that.
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The word disinformation did not appear in English dictionaries until 1939.[14][1][2] English use increased in 1986, after revelations that the Reagan Administration engaged in disinformation against Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi.[15] By 1990, it was pervasive in U.S. politics;[16] and by 2001 referred generally to lying and propaganda.[17][18]

 
Man it would be awesome if Trump can't stop his retaliation with those that wronged him, brings in a bunch of crazies to run in mid-terms and ends up throwing blue cold water on the Red Wave.

 
joffer said:
Coach Beard said:
The bummer is it didn’t have to be this way.  

There was an easy path to victory for Republicans in 2016 by embracing immigration reform.  Take the Reagan/GHWB path of positioning immigration demand as proof America is a shining beacon on a hill.  Or the Rubio path of codifying the DACA-like deal he helped negotiate to actually becoming law after it got so close on the last attempt.  Or the Kasich path of finding the millions here illegally who have living peaceful lives and working jobs, put them on payment plans for any monies owed, get them documented, and let them live freely and safely and raise their kids here and have the better life they came here for.
 

Any combo of these would have been an easy win over Hillary Clinton.  

The party chose Build A Wall And Mexico Will Pay For It spoken by the man who made himself famous in the party by making it popular to claim Obama wasn’t really an American and wasn’t rightfully elected President.  

It’s been all downhill since then.  Or since David Bowie died.  I’ll have the double check the calendar on that.
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for me it started in 2008 with Palin and the Tea Party
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So, I've been doing some light reading and trying to understand how far behind the GOP the Dems are on this path to destruction.  My first task is to figure out where all this began and I THINK all this likely started with Pat Buchanan's primary of Bush.  This is where I'm seeing the first cracks of dissent within the party....especially on social issues.

 
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Data point from my television watching in Georgia tonight.

Back to back commercials from the two Republican Governor candidates.  Brian Kemp and David Perdue.  Both commercials had about half of it being Trump video clips - Kemp accusing Perdue of being in bed with China and Perdue playing the clips on Trump going after Kemp and endorsing Perdue.

At least in Georgia,  it appears the candidates think being a Trump ally is a path to victory.

 
AAABatteries said:
Data point from my television watching in Georgia tonight.

Back to back commercials from the two Republican Governor candidates.  Brian Kemp and David Perdue.  Both commercials had about half of it being Trump video clips - Kemp accusing Perdue of being in bed with China and Perdue playing the clips on Trump going after Kemp and endorsing Perdue.

At least in Georgia,  it appears the candidates think being a Trump ally is a path to victory.
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They both know that these "Trumpier than thou" postures in the primary will also cost them some votes in the general. They're just banking on it not costing them so many votes that they end up losing. I hate that game but I have a sinking feeling their political calculus is probably correct.

 
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VandyMan said:
They both know that these "Trumpier than thou" postures in the primary will also cost them some votes in the general. They're just banking on it not costing them so many votes that they end up losing. I hate that game but I have a sinking feeling their political calculus is probably correct.
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Agree - it was just funny watching back to back commercials where both guys are falling over themselves to attract the Trump vote.  I do think Kemp will pivot if he's the nominee - Perdue may lean in to it.

 
@BladeRunnerhas absolutely nailed this topic and been ahead of the curve since jump street. #respect 

Too bad most of what he posted fell on deaf ears. Lib media now beginning to catch up, however.

Several prominent candidates backed by Trump went down in defeat as five states held primaries.

While the contests showed Trump's waning influence among the party's base, particularly following the loss of Trump-backed Nebraska Republican gubernatorial candidate Charles Herbster amid sexual assault allegations, election deniers had a big night whether they were backed by Trump or not.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cawthorns-loss-highlights-trumps-waning-influence-but-election-deniers-win-big-in-gop-primaries/ar-AAXpZkE?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnbfcL

 
Stoneworker said:
@BladeRunnerhas absolutely nailed this topic and been ahead of the curve since jump street. #respect 

Too bad most of what he posted fell on deaf ears. Lib media now beginning to catch up, however.

Several prominent candidates backed by Trump went down in defeat as five states held primaries.

While the contests showed Trump's waning influence among the party's base, particularly following the loss of Trump-backed Nebraska Republican gubernatorial candidate Charles Herbster amid sexual assault allegations, election deniers had a big night whether they were backed by Trump or not.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cawthorns-loss-highlights-trumps-waning-influence-but-election-deniers-win-big-in-gop-primaries/ar-AAXpZkE?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnbfcL
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Moderates everywhere are praying that the thesis is correct.  And that DeSantis gets hit by a bus.

 
The Commish said:
SHOCKED SHOCKED SHOCKED SHOCKED!!!!

-----that the reality is in between the claims of "guy is in complete control" and "guy has no influence whatsoever"

Who'd have thunk it :lol:  
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You can make up wtf question you want to suit your narrative, but the actual poll question was pretty clear. And 89% of liberals those who voted and identified as liberal agreed with the question as it was presented.  :shrug:

Donald Trump Controls The Republican Party And Republicans Must Yield To Him

 
Stoneworker said:
@BladeRunnerhas absolutely nailed this topic and been ahead of the curve since jump street. #respect 

Too bad most of what he posted fell on deaf ears. Lib media now beginning to catch up, however.

Several prominent candidates backed by Trump went down in defeat as five states held primaries.

While the contests showed Trump's waning influence among the party's base, particularly following the loss of Trump-backed Nebraska Republican gubernatorial candidate Charles Herbster amid sexual assault allegations, election deniers had a big night whether they were backed by Trump or not.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cawthorns-loss-highlights-trumps-waning-influence-but-election-deniers-win-big-in-gop-primaries/ar-AAXpZkE?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnbfcL
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I can't remember what I voted at the time, but I will say I'm less certain of Trump's hold on the party than I was a few months ago.

Still, get back to me when Trump runs for, and loses, the '24 nomination. Acting like it's a done deal based on a few failed primary endorsements risks making you look like DeSean Jackson or Nick Young.

 
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ignatiusjreilly said:
I can't remember what I voted at the time, but I will say I'm less certain of Trump's hold on the party than I was a few months ago.

Still, get back to me when Trump runs for, and loses, the '24 nomination. Acting like it's a done deal based on a few failed primary endorsements risks making you look like DeSean Jackson or Nick Young.
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Please.

Go back and read @BladeRunner's posts and to some extent my own throughout the thread.

There is an entire logic and progressive fact pattern with the recent primaries being only the latest data point.

Get to me when you have a better idea of what the Disagree votes were using to inform their opinions. Back in January.

No one is saying he's out of the party. But a left-biased media source saying Trump's influence is dying is indeed significant.

 
Stoneworker said:
Please.

Go back and read @BladeRunner's posts and to some extent my own throughout the thread.

There is an entire logic and progressive fact pattern with the recent primaries being only the latest data point.

Get to me when you have a better idea of what the Disagree votes were using to inform their opinions. Back in January.

No one is saying he's out of the party. But a left-biased media source saying Trump's influence is dying is indeed significant.
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They are all saying that because it's fake news.  Read the article a little closer, very few Trump backed contestants lost and the two guys listed had serious character issues.  This is classic find a guy Trump backed that lost (you aren't going to win them all) and parrot out that Trump has lost his influence.  If you concentrate on the number that has won, it tells a very different story.  

 
Stoneworker said:
Please.

Go back and read @BladeRunner's posts and to some extent my own throughout the thread.

There is an entire logic and progressive fact pattern with the recent primaries being only the latest data point.

Get to me when you have a better idea of what the Disagree votes were using to inform their opinions. Back in January.

No one is saying he's out of the party. But a left-biased media source saying Trump's influence is dying is indeed significant.
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Why do you keep acting like it's a settled matter? I think we would all agree that if he wins the nomination again in '24 that would suggest he still retains a great deal of control over the party, no? And as of right now, we have no idea whether that will happen or not.

I'm also not sure why you think that liberals are so invested in the idea that Trump controls the party. As long as we're assigning reading, I would urge you to go back and read the posts from me and many others about the fact that we would much rather Trump go away than continue to retain any influence. Hell, a conservative here started an entire thread trying to puzzle out why so many liberals didn't want to see Trump as the nominee given that, as this poster surmised, he'd be easier to beat. 

The reason I think Trump still retains significant influence over the party is not some sort of wish fulfillment, it's because spineless party leaders such as Kevin McCarthy continue to kiss his ring.

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
Why do you keep acting like it's a settled matter? I think we would all agree that if he wins the nomination again in '24 that would suggest he still retains a great deal of control over the party, no? And as of right now, we have no idea whether that will happen or not.

I'm also not sure why you think that liberals are so invested in the idea that Trump controls the party. As long as we're assigning reading, I would urge you to go back and read the posts from me and many others about the fact that we would much rather Trump go away than continue to retain any influence. Hell, a conservative here started an entire thread trying to puzzle out why so many liberals didn't want to see Trump as the nominee given that, as this poster surmised, he'd be easier to beat. 

The reason I think Trump still retains significant influence over the party is not some sort of wish fulfillment, it's because spineless party leaders such as Kevin McCarthy continue to kiss his ring.
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There were very, very few people who voted Disagree in the original poll. And the reason I think liberals are so invested in the idea that Trump controls the party through empirical evidence endlessly arguing with them in this very thread that Trump had even a smidgeon less than complete control.

All good. I've said my piece. Carry on.

 
Stoneworker said:
There were very, very few people who voted Disagree in the original poll. And the reason I think liberals are so invested in the idea that Trump controls the party through empirical evidence endlessly arguing with them in this very thread that Trump had even a smidgeon less than complete control.

All good. I've said my piece. Carry on.
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Yeah, let's revisit the question in the summer of 2024. Like I said, I genuinely hope you're right. That ****er's gotta geaux!

 
Stoneworker said:
The Commish said:
SHOCKED SHOCKED SHOCKED SHOCKED!!!!

-----that the reality is in between the claims of "guy is in complete control" and "guy has no influence whatsoever"

Who'd have thunk it :lol:  
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You can make up wtf question you want to suit your narrative, but the actual poll question was pretty clear. And 89% of liberals those who voted and identified as liberal agreed with the question as it was presented.  :shrug:

Donald Trump Controls The Republican Party And Republicans Must Yield To Him
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Has nothing to do at all with the comment you quoted. :shrug:   

And I'm sure you are now well aware I was in the "independent and on the fence" side.  You're barking up the wrong tree.

 
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I think Trump may have less influence now than some people may think. Republicans don't need Trump to defeat whoever the Democrat's put up now. Thanks to the Democrats themselves. 

Personally I would love to see both Paul and DeSantis primary him. I think they both may have the cahones to do it. Rand Paul v whoever dems put up and Tulsi running 3rd party would be my dream campaign. 

Yep I'm one of those guys.

 
rustycolts said:
I think Trump may have less influence now than some people may think. Republicans don't need Trump to defeat whoever the Democrat's put up now. Thanks to the Democrats themselves. 

Personally I would love to see both Paul and DeSantis primary him. I think they both may have the cahones to do it. Rand Paul v whoever dems put up and Tulsi running 3rd party would be my dream campaign. 

Yep I'm one of those guys.
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You're likely right.  Would be interesting to do this poll again.  And I don't think DeSantis would ever challenge him.  Either Trump doesn't run or DeSantis waits his turn IMO.

 
Stoneworker said:
The Commish said:
SHOCKED SHOCKED SHOCKED SHOCKED!!!!

-----that the reality is in between the claims of "guy is in complete control" and "guy has no influence whatsoever"

Who'd have thunk it :lol:  
Click to expand...
You can make up wtf question you want to suit your narrative, but the actual poll question was pretty clear. And 89% of liberals those who voted and identified as liberal agreed with the question as it was presented.  :shrug:

Donald Trump Controls The Republican Party And Republicans Must Yield To Him
Click to expand...


Not to call out @Joe Bryant because its his poll and he can word it however he wants, but the wording -  "Donald Trump Controls The Republican Party And Republicans Must Yield To Him" - made it difficult for me to vote in the poll. That language is too strong and not what I believe.  But I think I posted in this thread topic and elsewhere long ago that Republican candidates are going to have to disclaim the election results and support Trump in order to have a chance in most primary elections this Spring. I think that was born out over the past several months and again last night. I also said if Trump runs, he wins the GOP primary in 2024 easily unless something extraordinary happens between now and then and still believe that. I think many on the right are more afraid of Trump than those on the left. A moderate Republican knows they will have to vote for Trump if he's the nominee and I think that is a huge concern that is causing some cognitive dissonance on the right these days. For example, if Trump runs and DeSantis doesn't back down, it will get ugly because The Donald will pull no punches.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Not to call out @Joe Bryant because its his poll and he can word it however he wants, but the wording -  "Donald Trump Controls The Republican Party And Republicans Must Yield To Him" - made it difficult for me to vote in the poll. That language is too strong and not what I believe.  But I think I posted in this thread topic and elsewhere long ago that Republican candidates are going to have to disclaim the election results and support Trump in order to have a chance in most primary elections this Spring. I think that was born out over the past several months and again last night. I also said if Trump runs, he wins the GOP primary in 2024 easily unless something extraordinary happens between now and then and still believe that. I think many on the right are more afraid of Trump than those on the left. A moderate Republican knows they will have to vote for Trump if he's the nominee and I think that is a huge concern that is causing some cognitive dissonance on the right these days. For example, if Trump runs and DeSantis doesn't back down, it will get ugly because The Donald will pull no punches.
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Yeah, right now DeSantis seems to be the go to guy for Republican voters tired of being tarred with the embarrassment of Trump. But until he gets within hailing distance of Donald in the polls, he's just wishful thinking for a few who have a shred of dignity.

Last I saw, The Don had him about doubled up.

 
roadkill1292 said:
Yeah, right now DeSantis seems to be the go to guy for Republican voters tired of being tarred with the embarrassment of Trump. But until he gets within hailing distance of Donald in the polls, he's just wishful thinking for a few who have a shred of dignity.

Last I saw, The Don had him about doubled up.
Click to expand...


Gotta keep it amped because SIDEZ!!!

Smart people look at trends.

 
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