Alfred Morris, why is he rated so low (4 Viewers)

[Borden]

Likely not. Morris is what? 28? 29? So, yea, they are likely to look for a young draft pick to groom for the future.

Maybe later in the draft but I think Jerry is in full out Win Now mode. Every potential pick will have the question, "How much can he help us right now?" I think if they offensive skill positions it would need to be someone that could help out on special teams too.

 

[Chadstroma]

Maybe later in the draft but I think Jerry is in full out Win Now mode. Every potential pick will have the question, "How much can he help us right now?" I think if they offensive skill positions it would need to be someone that could help out on special teams too.

Agreed. Don't see him going early but any RB these days even in the later rounds, as they have been devalued, would potentially devalue Morris on the trading block.

 

[Borden]

Agreed. Don't see him going early but any RB these days even in the later rounds, as they have been devalued, would potentially devalue Morris on the trading block.

True. I think that the Cowboys have a bunch of late round comp picks too.

 

[Soulfly3]

He's 27. Won't turn 28 until almost the end of the 2016 season.

You're killing the vibe bro

 

[massraider]

For real, if you were trying to compile a depth chart of least exciting yet decent veteran backs, DMC and Morris would be a good start.  

I'm not knocking either player.  But geez.  

 

[Borden]

For real, if you were trying to compile a depth chart of least exciting yet decent veteran backs, DMC and Morris would be a good start.  

I'm not knocking either player.  But geez.  

Trust in their OL. Maybe too much. Didn't they re-sign the back ups too?

 

[massraider]

Trust in their OL. Maybe too much. Didn't they re-sign the back ups too?

Disappointed Donald Brown got away, I think.  

 

[Soulfly3]

When the system suited morris he averaged 4.8 and 4.6 ypc in 2012/13... Last two seasons, not as hot, but the team and system was also a mess (4.1/3.7)

Morris is not exciting... no. But he's a career 4.4ypc back, going to the home of possibly the best running o-line in the league

And most importantly, the guy was averaging 9+TDs per season in the 3 seasons prior to the poo-show that was this season for the Skins.

 

[Borden]

Disappointed Donald Brown got away, I think.  

Dunbar, Malena, McFadden, Morris, Smith, Turbin are all listed on the Cowboys website. Plus, Clutts at FB.

Turbin is listed still on the Cowboys website but is actually with Indy. Nod to tone1oc for that catch.

 

[tone1oc]

that's right. freakin' Turbin is there still as well. That lottery ticket just got a lot less valuable.

Actually he's on Indy. Lottery ticket still valuable.

 

[humpback]

If that is how your rookie drafts work and Alf isn't (at worst) the third pick in round one, your entire league is crazy.

His value is not a top 3 rookie pick, that's crazy.

 

[FF Ninja]

You come on, time to sit down and take a  reality break son.

Last year, when DMC landed in the holy grail he was going in usually late second of the early drafts when his comp was Randle who had done next to nothing and DMC offers way more upside in PPR leagues.

DMC, from the time he got the starting gig was one of the most productive backs in the NFL by almost every measure. Third in rushing yards, second in rushing first downs, top 3 in 20+ yard runs and 100 yard games.  That to me is way more proven than the comp he faced against Randle and DMC will 100% enter camp as the starter.

Alfred Morris is a non catching PPR player who even if he ran for 1200 yards is a non dependable RB3 which is the best he's been since his rookie year.

He always needs to sit down and take a break... his hobby is hyping players he owns. But don't let him liking Morris turn you off on the player. Comparing DMC last year to Morris this year is not a quality comparison. Randle was, at the time, still considered the favorite, by a large margin, to win the job while DMC was coming off three straight years of total garbage (8 games missed, 485 carries @ 3.3 yc, outplayed by Marcel Reese and Rashad Jennings).

We don't know for sure DMC will enter camp 100% as the starter. They might like to relegate him to the role they signed him for - 3rd down/spot duty. Nobody wants to rely on DMC for 20 touches a game. That's a recipe for disaster even if he did defy the odds and play all 16 games last year. You think they want to double down on that? I wouldn't.

Morris hasn't been utilized as a pass catcher, but that doesn't mean he's inept. Ivory had only caught 23 passes in 55 games until last year when he caught 30 in 15 games. Ingram had only caught 53 passes in 50 games until he caught 50 in 12 games. Morris has caught 47 in 64 games. I'm not saying Dallas is going to make him a 3 down back. I'm just challenging the thought that just because a guy hasn't caught passes that he can't.

And I know this is crazy, but not everyone plays PPR. Just a pet peeve, but it always irritates me when people bring PPR into the discussion as if it is the golden standard. There are a lot of 0 and 0.5 leagues where not catching a lot of passes fails to disqualify a guy as a fantasy player. Maybe it's weird to prefer a format where Bilal Powell can't be picked up off waivers and dominate a H2H matchup for a week?

 

[Soulfly3]

He always needs to sit down and take a break... his hobby is hyping players he owns.

If you play dynasty, and actively seek or draft a player, wouldnt the object be to hype them? 

I mean... if you made an effort to get them, you obviously have certain positive notions about them, no?

 

[FF Ninja]

For real, if you were trying to compile a depth chart of least exciting yet decent veteran backs, DMC and Morris would be a good start.  

I'm not knocking either player.  But geez.  

I doubt you would have described DMC as decent at this time last year. Not that there's anything wrong with that. His previous three years screamed "washed up".

 

[Soulfly3]

I doubt you would have described DMC as decent at this time last year. Not that there's anything wrong with that. His previous three years screamed "washed up".

Morris had 2 fantastic years, one decent and one trash.

Kind of different scenarios. 

 

[Soulfly3]

I doubt you would have described DMC as decent at this time last year. Not that there's anything wrong with that. His previous three years screamed "washed up".

Morris had 2 fantastic years, one decent and one trash.

Kind of different scenarios. 

 

[FF Ninja]

If you play dynasty, and actively seek or draft a player, wouldnt the object be to hype them? 

I mean... if you made an effort to get them, you obviously have certain positive notions about them, no?

No. No, it would not. You should be looking for level headed discussion so you can make an informed decision on what to do going forward. Relentlessly hyping a player in forums is just annoying and counterproductive.

 

[Shutout]

He always needs to sit down and take a break... his hobby is hyping players he owns. But don't let him liking Morris turn you off on the player. Comparing DMC last year to Morris this year is not a quality comparison. Randle was, at the time, still considered the favorite, by a large margin, to win the job while DMC was coming off three straight years of total garbage (8 games missed, 485 carries @ 3.3 yc, outplayed by Marcel Reese and Rashad Jennings).

We don't know for sure DMC will enter camp 100% as the starter. They might like to relegate him to the role they signed him for - 3rd down/spot duty. Nobody wants to rely on DMC for 20 touches a game. That's a recipe for disaster even if he did defy the odds and play all 16 games last year. You think they want to double down on that? I wouldn't.

Morris hasn't been utilized as a pass catcher, but that doesn't mean he's inept. Ivory had only caught 23 passes in 55 games until last year when he caught 30 in 15 games. Ingram had only caught 53 passes in 50 games until he caught 50 in 12 games. Morris has caught 47 in 64 games. I'm not saying Dallas is going to make him a 3 down back. I'm just challenging the thought that just because a guy hasn't caught passes that he can't.

And I know this is crazy, but not everyone plays PPR. Just a pet peeve, but it always irritates me when people bring PPR into the discussion as if it is the golden standard. There are a lot of 0 and 0.5 leagues where not catching a lot of passes fails to disqualify a guy as a fantasy player. Maybe it's weird to prefer a format where Bilal Powell can't be picked up off waivers and dominate a H2H matchup for a week?

Probably can't quantify this at all but it led me to everything I based my decision on re: the Cowboys running game last year and it worked.  I asked myself "what does Jerry Jones" want this team to look like and I remembered that he was absolutely man crushing over DMAC when he came out of his Alma mater.  I still think that rings true and I know Jerry likes his team to flash a certain way and I know Jerry likes to be right. 

For that reason and that reason only, I'm going to say DMAC is still the lead horse as long as he can hold up and they envision Morris as a Marion Barber type. 

In real life, this is a very effective, cost friendly, sound decision that should net plusses for the Cowboys.  In FF, this is about as far away as a splash play as they could have made.

Every year, someone starts one of those "bold prediction" threads. Mine is that Dallas will be a good team again this year and at some point DMAC will get hurt (that's not the bold part) and that the Cowboys will bring in Arian Foster to finish the job.  

 

[FF Ninja]

Probably can't quantify this at all but it led me to everything I based my decision on re: the Cowboys running game last year and it worked.  I asked myself "what does Jerry Jones" want this team to look like and I remembered that he was absolutely man crushing over DMAC when he came out of his Alma mater.  I still think that rings true and I know Jerry likes his team to flash a certain way and I know Jerry likes to be right. 

For that reason and that reason only, I'm going to say DMAC is still the lead horse as long as he can hold up and they envision Morris as a Marion Barber type. 

In real life, this is a very effective, cost friendly, sound decision that should net plusses for the Cowboys.  In FF, this is about as far away as a splash play as they could have made.

Every year, someone starts one of those "bold prediction" threads. Mine is that Dallas will be a good team again this year and at some point DMAC will get hurt (that's not the bold part) and that the Cowboys will bring in Arian Foster to finish the job.  

I love Foster, but I wouldn't trust an old, injury prone RB coming off an achilles injury. Besides, Kubiak in all of his loyalty will probably sign Foster to Denver. Kubes loves his old players and coaches.

 

[Poncho]

I love Foster, but I wouldn't trust an old, injury prone RB coming off an achilles injury. Besides, Kubiak in all of his loyalty will probably sign Foster to Denver. Kubes loves his old players and coaches.

If foster fully recovers from his injury (I see no reason why he wont) he has proven to be one of the best RBs in the game. He is a older version of leveon bell imo. He would be gold in Denver and CJ Anderson being there would have no bearing....

 

[FF Ninja]

If foster fully recovers from his injury (I see no reason why he wont) he has proven to be one of the best RBs in the game. He is a older version of leveon bell imo. He would be gold in Denver and CJ Anderson being there would have no bearing....

Yes, Foster was one of the best RBs in the game for a while. The Bell comp is good. However, the achilles injury is huge. How can you be so sure that he'll recover in less than a year and be effective? The only RB I can think of with a blown achilles was LeShoure and he went from being an exciting prospect to a plodder. He never looked good again. Even several years removed from injury. On top of all of that, Foster has been injury plagued the last few years anyway. I'm a huge Foster fan, but I think it's over for him.

 

[massraider]

Achilles+old?

No thanks.

 

[Bri]

Yes, Foster was one of the best RBs in the game for a while. The Bell comp is good. However, the achilles injury is huge. How can you be so sure that he'll recover in less than a year and be effective? The only RB I can think of with a blown achilles was LeShoure and he went from being an exciting prospect to a plodder. He never looked good again. Even several years removed from injury. On top of all of that, Foster has been injury plagued the last few years anyway. I'm a huge Foster fan, but I think it's over for him.

Click the blue words, someone did their homework and the thread carried on nicely

 

[Poncho]

Achilles+old?

No thanks.

Well, chances is are if you have him already in a dynasty league I doubt you will just be dropping him for the heck of it. Don't see any reason to not be positive in march.....

 

[Hankmoody]

All I know is that now that Morris has more than a modicum of value I am selling now.

 

[FF Ninja]

Click the blue words, someone did their homework and the thread carried on nicely

Yeah, I think I recall that thread. This is almost uncharted territory for RBs to come back AND be productive. So for someone to say "I see no reason why he won't have a complete recovery" just seems woefully shortsighted.

 

[Borden]

Yeah, I think I recall that thread. This is almost uncharted territory for RBs to come back AND be productive. So for someone to say "I see no reason why he won't have a complete recovery" just seems woefully shortsighted.

I think the context that Poncho described it seems logical though. They bring him in later in the season and hope that he can give them a few good games as they make a playoff push. He can still rotate through and put up productive numbers. They don't need a bellcow for the entire season. 

 

[FF Ninja]

I think the context that Poncho described it seems logical though. They bring him in later in the season and hope that he can give them a few good games as they make a playoff push. He can still rotate through and put up productive numbers. They don't need a bellcow for the entire season. 

Yeah.. IF he can make a comeback. So far we don't have any RBs coming back and making a difference after an achilles injury, much less an older, injury prone RB. I hope Foster can make a comeback, but I'm betting against it.

 

[menobrown]

He always needs to sit down and take a break... his hobby is hyping players he owns. But don't let him liking Morris turn you off on the player. Comparing DMC last year to Morris this year is not a quality comparison. Randle was, at the time, still considered the favorite, by a large margin, to win the job while DMC was coming off three straight years of total garbage (8 games missed, 485 carries @ 3.3 yc, outplayed by Marcel Reese and Rashad Jennings).

I must disagree strongly with the bolded and why I would also disagree it's not a quality comparison. If it's not a quality comparison it's because Morris is not on same footing DMC was versus Randle last year.

As for Randle maybe it boils down to timing of the drafts. The rookie drafts I did all took place 1-2 weeks after the NFL draft. Most of them are FFPC leagues or high stakes FFPC players in private leagues that mostly mirror FFPC rules. In those leagues DMC was going in late second as a general rule, ahead of Randle at the time. If you drafted after camps opened this would have changed, but at the time of my rookie drafts it was not for sure not only not known who was the starter but DMC was going ahead of Randle.

And yes DMC was horrible  the previous 3 years but other than Dallas being good for just about any RB it's tailor made for a RB's like DMC who like Murray, and like Derrick Henry, are long striders who need good blocking to build a head of steam. So long story short Dallas is good for all RB's, some more than others.

).

We don't know for sure DMC will enter camp 100% as the starter. They might like to relegate him to the role they signed him for - 3rd down/spot duty. Nobody wants to rely on DMC for 20 touches a game. That's a recipe for disaster even if he did defy the odds and play all 16 games last year. You think they want to double down on that? I wouldn't.

No we don't know for sure if he will enter camp as the 100% starter but I'll be stunned if it's Morris. DMC did everything they asked him to do and Garrett is actually pretty loyal. You won't agree but it's his job to lose and he might still lose it to a drafted player. I also disagree they signed him to be  3rd down/spot duty , which I pretty much just addressed in my response to you saying at this point last year Randle as the sure thing starter. Fact is when Dunbar was playing he was almost always the third down back.

No they do not want to give DMC 20 touches a game, that we agree on. He and Morris should actually make a nice complement together and it's a really nice signing by Dallas but two things about that are negatives to Morris fantasy value.

First off I strongly believe he's the complement back to DMC. Secondly in 2013-2014 Morris averaged almost 17 carries a game for an average of 1,174 yards rushing and still could not average 12 fantasy points a game. So when people rip me or think I'm trolling for saying he's a third round rookie pick this is part of what I'm getting at. His rookie year he put up amazing stats but even when he's been a 1,000 yard rusher the next two years he's been an average fantasy player and I guarantee if you've owned him in a PPR fantasy league you were always looking for someone else to start over him or never quite felt comfortable using him. I know because I've owned him for two years and still own him on a team of mine that is weak at RB and I still never only use him out of sheer desperation and I'm talking about when he was the full time RB. 

t.

Morris hasn't been utilized as a pass catcher, but that doesn't mean he's inept. Ivory had only caught 23 passes in 55 games until last year when he caught 30 in 15 games. Ingram had only caught 53 passes in 50 games until he caught 50 in 12 games. Morris has caught 47 in 64 games. I'm not saying Dallas is going to make him a 3 down back. I'm just challenging the thought that just because a guy hasn't caught passes that he can't.

And I know this is crazy, but not everyone plays PPR. Just a pet peeve, but it always irritates me when people bring PPR into the discussion as if it is the golden standard. There are a lot of 0 and 0.5 leagues where not catching a lot of passes fails to disqualify a guy as a fantasy player. Maybe it's weird to prefer a format where Bilal Powell can't be picked up off waivers and dominate a H2H matchup for a week?

DMC and Dunbar are both better pass catching RB's then Morris and Dallas does not utilize their RB's heavily in the passing game. They were 20th last year with 99 targets to RB's and 25th the season before with 92. I don't expect Morris to get much of that pie.

I only mentioned PPR for two reasons. It's all I play and when I said that Morris now moved up to a third round rookie draft pick I felt the need to say it was PPR as I would guess his value is higher in non-PPR leagues. 

Appreciate you responding in a well thought out manner. For me Morris is a volume dependent back who won't get the volume, won't catch a lot of passes, but has RB2 upside if DMC falters or gets hurt. That to me is generally third round rookie value for a 27 year old RB, maybe due to weakness of this draft he climbs up to back of second like DMC did last year.  That's as high as I see him going but stands to fall further if they draft someone decent.

 

[Borden]

Well posted menobrown. 

"it's tailor made for a RB's like DMC who like Murray, and like Derrick Henry, are long striders who need good blocking to build a head of steam" This like you said is suitable for any RB but I think this is exactly how you'd want Alf going about his business too. Yeah, the read option scheme is where he excelled but if you can get Alf out there to where down defenses and pick 10+ chucks in which gets lace into a secondary it's going to net positive results. The other thing that you mentioned is that Dallas is a low RB pass team, which seems to fit exactly Morris's MO. 

If Romo and Dez are both healthy this season it improves there chances of being in a position to grind out games. The Cowboys also only had 8 rushing TDs last year (DMC had 3) and this could be where Alf makes his biggest mark. 7 of their 8 rushing TDs came inside the opponents 10. DMC had 15 att and 3 TD, Randle had 4 for 3, Turbin had 4 for 1. With both Turbin and Randle got and likely an uptick in scoring chance if Dez and Romo can stay healthy it could lead to some very lucrative touches for Morris. It's never a good idea to try and predict TDs but it's worth noting this potential situation.

 

[menobrown]

Click the blue words, someone did their homework and the thread carried on nicely

I trust Dr. Chao:

David J. Chao, MD ‏@ProFootballDoc  Mar 11
David J. Chao, MD Retweeted Brent Ross

True.Mmany examples of good recovery My ranking of better to worst for lower extremity recovery Achilles>ACL>Patella
David J. Chao, MD ‏@ProFootballDoc  Mar 20
#ArianFoster 'doing great' per brother/trainer. http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Arian-Foster-doing-great-in-recovery-from-torn-6923823.php?cmpid=twitter-desktop … >I tsource but believable to be ready for 2016 after Achilles.

 

[tone1oc]

FYI: If you paste the link to a tweet it will format it nicely so we don't have these types of trainwrecks ^^^^^^

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

 Is this the Alfred Morris thread?  What the hell are you clowns talking about in here ?

 

[menobrown]

FYI: If you paste the link to a tweet it will format it nicely so we don't have these types of trainwrecks ^^^^^^

Appreciate the heads up, will do it like that next time but information should I wanted to relay should have come across.

 

[massraider]

You should google Dr. Chao before you trust him. 

 

[menobrown]

You should google Dr. Chao before you trust him. 

You should not allow what you read about someone on google to  determine whether you trust them.

 

[cockroach]

You should not allow what you read about someone on google to  determine whether you trust them.

Just put in a call to have my PI run a background check on him and my secretary is going to try to schedule a 1 on 1 so I can really determine if I can trust this Sacred Chao guy.

 

[dansav]

Trying to get pumped about this landing spot for Morris.  Just can't......

3-headed monster with McFadden, Morris and Dunbar..

also If you listened to red heads press conference this morning he mentioned that morris was pretty average with nothing to flashy about him. 

 

[Shutout]

Trying to get pumped about this landing spot for Morris.  Just can't......

3-headed monster with McFadden, Morris and Dunbar..

also If you listened to red heads press conference this morning he mentioned that morris was pretty average with nothing to flashy about him. 

Plus if you listen to Jerry Jones from last night, he pretty much said everything I did yesterday afternoon.  He loves DMAC. He sees DMAC as that "flash" guy that can bring what others can't. DMAC is going to be the lead. 

To me, it is perfectly clear that Morris' value is capped until an injury occurs and my thought is that the COwboys really lost their season last year due to not having that "next man up" that was competent enough to hold down the fort when starters in multiple positions missed time. I think they are thinking of that pretty hard and heavy. I wouldn't be surprised to see them somehow carry 3 QBs and 4 RBs this year, as hard as that is to manage.

 

[Dope]

My guess is that unless Dallas drafts one of the top 5 or 6 RBs that Alfred wins the primary job in training camp.

 

[-CE-]

Plus if you listen to Jerry Jones from last night, he pretty much said everything I did yesterday afternoon.  He loves DMAC. He sees DMAC as that "flash" guy that can bring what others can't. DMAC is going to be the lead. 

To me, it is perfectly clear that Morris' value is capped until an injury occurs and my thought is that the COwboys really lost their season last year due to not having that "next man up" that was competent enough to hold down the fort when starters in multiple positions missed time. I think they are thinking of that pretty hard and heavy. I wouldn't be surprised to see them somehow carry 3 QBs and 4 RBs this year, as hard as that is to manage.

How do you have a "next man up" for positions like an elite-game-changing-hall-of-fame-WR or 10-year-competent-starting QB?  You can't.  Did the Cowboys season go down last year because of injury?  Yea, probably.  You know what?  Nothing they can do about it.  You lose Dez Bryant, what do you say??  "Hey, thank god we had the cap room to sign Demayrius Thomas and Julio Jones last offseason."

This is hilarious.  You can carry fifteen QB's but it won't matter because one is named Romo and the other fourteen are dog crap.  There are about 20 competent QB's in the league and only 10 of those that can make their teams win some games (nearly) by themselves.  That's why guys who look pretty flawed like Brock Osweiler have multiple teams willing to pay them $15MM+/year.  If your starting QB goes down and your backup isn't named Brady, you're done for the year.

Back to the Alfred Morris situation, I think Dallas is one of the best landing spots for him.  DMC is actually a year older than Morris and DMC has 200+ more career carries (400+ touches when you add in his catches).  I really don't care what Jerry Jones says today because when the chips fall and the game is on the line the coaches will make the decisions.  I think that decision will initially be DMC but he'll also be on a short leash.  Ultimately I think at the first sign of a nagging injury or inefficient play will lead the team to stick Morris in there and have DMC relegated to change of pace duties on a 5-10 carry workload.  I basically think you're going to see DMC fade in the early season and Morris assume the lead back duties.  

I haven't touched Morris in a redraft other than his rookie year because he always looked like a downhill back with no pass catching value.  But he is a RB who values the "shortest distance between two points" type of mentality that coaches love.  He isn't going to hit a home run like DMC, but he also isn't going to fumble the ball (0 fumbles in 200+ carries last season) and he'll pick you up that extra yard or two that DMC loses by changing direction or going down at first contact.  In a redraft today I wouldn't touch DMC... but if Morris falls and my roster is rounded out... I'm looking at him.  In a dynasty if I have Morris I'm just going to quietly keep him on the bench knowing that as the season draws near he's going to get his chance behind the best offensive line in the game.

 

[Shutout]

How do you have a "next man up" for positions like an elite-game-changing-hall-of-fame-WR or 10-year-competent-starting QB?  You can't.  Did the Cowboys season go down last year because of injury?  Yea, probably.  You know what?  Nothing they can do about it.  You lose Dez Bryant, what do you say??  "Hey, thank god we had the cap room to sign Demayrius Thomas and Julio Jones last offseason."

This is hilarious.  You can carry fifteen QB's but it won't matter because one is named Romo and the other fourteen are dog crap.  There are about 20 competent QB's in the league and only 10 of those that can make their teams win some games (nearly) by themselves.  That's why guys who look pretty flawed like Brock Osweiler have multiple teams willing to pay them $15MM+/year.  If your starting QB goes down and your backup isn't named Brady, you're done for the year.

Back to the Alfred Morris situation, I think Dallas is one of the best landing spots for him.  DMC is actually a year older than Morris and DMC has 200+ more career carries (400+ touches when you add in his catches).  I really don't care what Jerry Jones says today because when the chips fall and the game is on the line the coaches will make the decisions.  I think that decision will initially be DMC but he'll also be on a short leash.  Ultimately I think at the first sign of a nagging injury or inefficient play will lead the team to stick Morris in there and have DMC relegated to change of pace duties on a 5-10 carry workload.  I basically think you're going to see DMC fade in the early season and Morris assume the lead back duties.  

I haven't touched Morris in a redraft other than his rookie year because he always looked like a downhill back with no pass catching value.  But he is a RB who values the "shortest distance between two points" type of mentality that coaches love.  He isn't going to hit a home run like DMC, but he also isn't going to fumble the ball (0 fumbles in 200+ carries last season) and he'll pick you up that extra yard or two that DMC loses by changing direction or going down at first contact.  In a redraft today I wouldn't touch DMC... but if Morris falls and my roster is rounded out... I'm looking at him.  In a dynasty if I have Morris I'm just going to quietly keep him on the bench knowing that as the season draws near he's going to get his chance behind the best offensive line in the game.

It is obvious that the intention is not to say a team that has Brady should have a "next man up" the quality of Aaron Rodgers.  Don't be so ridiculous and so literal. 

What I am speaking of is what should be obvious. It has been the long-standing theory of teams and GMs around the league that if you are a good team doing a good job, you are able to replace talent with talent, relatively speaking and that is very necessary in a sport with such a high injury rate. So, the next man up should be a good fit and reasonably talented. 

The lack of talent behind Romo last year absolutely killed them and it was painfully obvious to anyone who knows anything about football just how desperate they were and appeared in all their renditions of how they tried to talk up the guy they traded for, the guy they had, the guys they have had over the past few years, etc. They have done a very POOR job of having any type of replacement talent behind their starters.  They have no answer for Romo, they had none behind Ware, they had none at LB, secondary, and so on and on.  They simply have not been good at it in contrast to how some teams.

I guess we could blah blah blah about it all day but it is obvious. There are some teams that never look past the front lines and there are teams that make a point to see the value in guys like DWIL, Fitzpatrick, a special teamer LB that none of us pay attention to until he's needed. etc. 

 

[FreeBaGeL]

What I am speaking of is what should be obvious. It has been the long-standing theory of teams and GMs around the league that if you are a good team doing a good job, you are able to replace talent with talent, relatively speaking and that is very necessary in a sport with such a high injury rate. So, the next man up should be a good fit and reasonably talented. 

The lack of talent behind Romo last year absolutely killed them and it was painfully obvious to anyone who knows anything about football just how desperate they were and appeared in all their renditions of how they tried to talk up the guy they traded for, the guy they had, the guys they have had over the past few years, etc. They have done a very POOR job of having any type of replacement talent behind their starters.  They have no answer for Romo, they had none behind Ware, they had none at LB, secondary, and so on and on.  They simply have not been good at it in contrast to how some teams.

This is all hindsight though.  Going into last year most people would probably have said that Weeden and Cassel were two of the better backups QBs in the league.  It's not like Dallas was ignoring the position, it's just that good backup QBs are backup QBs for a reason.  Because they're bad starting QBs.

And McFadden WAS the backup at RB to start the season, and he performed well when the starter went down the tank.

 

[-CE-]

It is obvious that the intention is not to say a team that has Brady should have a "next man up" the quality of Aaron Rodgers.  Don't be so ridiculous and so literal. 

What I am speaking of is what should be obvious. It has been the long-standing theory of teams and GMs around the league that if you are a good team doing a good job, you are able to replace talent with talent, relatively speaking and that is very necessary in a sport with such a high injury rate. So, the next man up should be a good fit and reasonably talented. 

The lack of talent behind Romo last year absolutely killed them and it was painfully obvious to anyone who knows anything about football just how desperate they were and appeared in all their renditions of how they tried to talk up the guy they traded for, the guy they had, the guys they have had over the past few years, etc. They have done a very POOR job of having any type of replacement talent behind their starters.  They have no answer for Romo, they had none behind Ware, they had none at LB, secondary, and so on and on.  They simply have not been good at it in contrast to how some teams.

I guess we could blah blah blah about it all day but it is obvious. There are some teams that never look past the front lines and there are teams that make a point to see the value in guys like DWIL, Fitzpatrick, a special teamer LB that none of us pay attention to until he's needed. etc. 

You're missing the "relatively speaking" point.  It doesn't matter if they carry 3 QB's, if Romo goes down, they are done.  I'm not taking it literal, I'm pointing out that your entire logic is flawed if you think the Cowboys are going to "Keep 3 QB's" as opposed to having actual players that actually help at other positions.  The Cowboys were desperate to keep Kyle Orton's corpse as their backup for years.  You don't replace the talent of Dez Bryant or Tony Romo in this league.  Period.  Does that mean you don't have a backup QB?  No, but it means being realistic and not throwing away cap money and roster spaces for guys that serve as nothing more than fodder if they ever do have to play.  You go on to mention no depth at LB or secondary, etc - how are they going to accomplish that when they are wasting money and roster spots by keeping 3 QB's and 4 RB's like you said?  

You're not going to replace that "talent with talent" because the "next man up" ####### sucks and that's why you were able to sign him for cheap as the backup.  That's why no other team offered him more money in FA or selected him a round before the Cowboys did, because he ####### sucks.  You can't replace a starting QB in this league unless your starter was a dog turd to begin with and you're just upgrading to a cat turd when you insert your backup.  That's why you have career backups like Kellen Clemens who played for 10 years but only started 21 games - he's competent, sure.  He knows the lingo and can be a locker room guy and will hold that clipboard like a mother####er.  That's also why you have teams desperate to take a chance on any QB who shows the slightest signs of a heartbeat like Osweiler, with an 86 QB rating and 10-6 TD:INT ratio last year... and they sign him to far more than he's worth... and then you figure out that you just got Matty Flynn'd.

Anyway, I just take exception with your point that there is some sort of "next man up" in Dallas' situation last year when you talk about losing Tony Romo and Dez Bryant.  I think you compounded it by suggesting to take away from other positions on the roster to reinforce the QB/RB positions when that wouldn't have done any good for Dallas last year.

 

[Shutout]

This is all hindsight though.  Going into last year most people would probably have said that Weeden and Cassel were two of the better backups QBs in the league.  It's not like Dallas was ignoring the position, it's just that good backup QBs are backup QBs for a reason.  Because they're bad starting QBs.

And McFadden WAS the backup at RB to start the season, and he performed well when the starter went down the tank.

Well, I lm not going to say I'm smarter than anyone or know things others don't but I can promise you I have said for years that Dallas is crazy to think that they have anyone behind Romo.  I couldn't believe they kept Weeden after seeing him prior and I thought the Cassell move was completely terrible timing.  I can't remember if it was Fitzmagic or Hoyer but I remember before the season started thinking "even one of the Texans guys would be a better move".  Again, Not saying I know anything but I honestly have been looking at this team for a long time and questioning their moves in some areas.

DMAC as a backup is depending how you view it. I know there was discussion in the offseason as to who would emerge..that many thought no way Randle would have a lead gig, and I am on record from the beginning in some of these threads as to saying Jerry Jones has always loved DMAC and will get in the picture...by design or by necessity.  Not arguing to make a case, just saying I don't think that is much of a topic to push either way. It was what it was. the Cowboys got caught in a series of personnel decisions and none of them panned out, really. 

 

[Shutout]

You're missing the "relatively speaking" point.  It doesn't matter if they carry 3 QB's, if Romo goes down, they are done.  I'm not taking it literal, I'm pointing out that your entire logic is flawed if you think the Cowboys are going to "Keep 3 QB's" as opposed to having actual players that actually help at other positions.  The Cowboys were desperate to keep Kyle Orton's corpse as their backup for years.  You don't replace the talent of Dez Bryant or Tony Romo in this league.  Period.  Does that mean you don't have a backup QB?  No, but it means being realistic and not throwing away cap money and roster spaces for guys that serve as nothing more than fodder if they ever do have to play.  You go on to mention no depth at LB or secondary, etc - how are they going to accomplish that when they are wasting money and roster spots by keeping 3 QB's and 4 RB's like you said?  

You're not going to replace that "talent with talent" because the "next man up" ####### sucks and that's why you were able to sign him for cheap as the backup.  That's why no other team offered him more money in FA or selected him a round before the Cowboys did, because he ####### sucks.  You can't replace a starting QB in this league unless your starter was a dog turd to begin with and you're just upgrading to a cat turd when you insert your backup.  That's why you have career backups like Kellen Clemens who played for 10 years but only started 21 games - he's competent, sure.  He knows the lingo and can be a locker room guy and will hold that clipboard like a mother####er.  That's also why you have teams desperate to take a chance on any QB who shows the slightest signs of a heartbeat like Osweiler, with an 86 QB rating and 10-6 TD:INT ratio last year... and they sign him to far more than he's worth... and then you figure out that you just got Matty Flynn'd.

Anyway, I just take exception with your point that there is some sort of "next man up" in Dallas' situation last year when you talk about losing Tony Romo and Dez Bryant.  I think you compounded it by suggesting to take away from other positions on the roster to reinforce the QB/RB positions when that wouldn't have done any good for Dallas last year.

I'll be honest. Stopped reading when you started repeating the stuff you said 1st time. Figured I can discuss with you or I can rely on what I have heard actual NFL GMs discuss in regards to their philosophies of team building over the years.  Just trying to help but you have to be willing to listen to understand the philosophy side of it.

I will say...again...yes, it is obvious you don't replace elite players with elite player usually.  We know this..You're getting stuck on this.  Every team has a next man up philosophy.  Many coaches refer to it as exactly that.  FOr some people working in the NFL, that is literally their job.  You're kidding yourself if you don't see that. 

Just for reference:. I say 3 QBs with the mindset of:

Romo

Finding a competent backup (they should have learned that you just can't pick any journeyman QB and it will work...especially when you have a contending team. There is a REASON why the vast majority of these guys have 10 different uni's in their closets). 

having a young development talent (no intention to play the man but they should have learned last year that they NEED to start preparing).

If the Cowboys have learned nothing, they should at least know that they have failed to have any type of realistic contingency plan for ROmo for a while now and their season derailed last year because of it. Kind of odd for a team that has a HC who spent his entire career as a backup QB. 

 

[-CE-]

Well, I lm not going to say I'm smarter than anyone or know things others don't but I can promise you I have said for years that Dallas is crazy to think that they have anyone behind Romo.  I couldn't believe they kept Weeden after seeing him prior and I thought the Cassell move was completely terrible timing.  I can't remember if it was Fitzmagic or Hoyer but I remember before the season started thinking "even one of the Texans guys would be a better move".  Again, Not saying I know anything but I honestly have been looking at this team for a long time and questioning their moves in some areas.

Figured I can discuss with you or I can rely on what I have heard actual NFL GMs discuss in regards to their philosophies of team building over the years. 

Just for reference:. I say 3 QBs with the mindset of:

Romo

Finding a competent backup (they should have learned that you just can't pick any journeyman QB and it will work...especially when you have a contending team. There is a REASON why the vast majority of these guys have 10 different uni's in their closets). 

having a young development talent (no intention to play the man but they should have learned last year that they NEED to start preparing).

If the Cowboys have learned nothing, they should at least know that they have failed to have any type of realistic contingency plan for ROmo for a while now and their season derailed last year because of it. Kind of odd for a team that has a HC who spent his entire career as a backup QB. 

::eyeroll::

Listen man, all backup QB's suck.  They all suck. 1/3 of the starting QB's in this league suck but you somehow think Dallas is going to have some super powered backup QB?  Your contingency plan for losing Romo has to be:

1) spend a high draft pick to acquire a starting caliber QB that you can develop behind Romo and insert as the starter if Romo goes down or

2) nothing.  You sign someone that you hope has the upside of not ####ting the bed every time he gets trotted out there, but make no mistake - your season is over if that starter isn't coming back.  

You know if the Cowboys had the mindset of #1 two years back you'd be dealing with the Johnny ####### Football situation right now?  So Brian Hoyer was the answer for the Cowboys backup QB position?  Ask Houston Texans fans what they think of Brian Hoyer... 15 for 34 with 0 TD's and 4 INT's during a 0-30 blowout back in January is what they think of him.  He got benched for Ryan Mallet before winning his job back and then Houston jumped at the chance to overpay Osweiler so they no longer had to start Hoyer.  That's because Hoyer sucks.  That's because Hoyer is what you can expect from backup QB talent.

Mike Glennon and AJ McCarron currently have the highest trade value as backup (to their team) QB's... http://www.cincyjungle.com/2016/3/21/11275570/aj-mccarron-ranked-as-quarterback-with-2nd-best-trade-potential-in-nfl 

You know what it would have cost the Cowboys to get one of those guys?  A 2nd or 3rd round draft pick ahead of the Bengals/Bucs in the 2015/2013 years.  Brian Hoyer and Zach Mettenberger are ranked 4th and 5th!!!  These also aren't QB's that are going to hit the FA market and get signed by the Cowboys to backup Romo... because they are going to sign somewhere else for more money with a team paying them to be their starter.

Simply put, I don't think you understand the supply/demand market for the costs or efficiency of the NFL's QB market.  You can spend that #4 overall pick this year on Geoff or Wentz if you want to, but then you're losing out on a supremely talented defensive player who has the potential to be an immediate impact for your team and an all-pro for 10 years.  You could do what Denver and New England have done, draft a QB in the 2nd-4th rounds and develop him behind your starter... but then you still get guys like Cassell, Mallet, Flynn and soon to add Osweiler to the list of people that sounded good on paper.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I wish they would change the original thread title.

 

[discountdoublecheck]

So anyway.... this Alfred Morris guy, he plays for Dallas now. Obviously this is a great for Morris' dynasty owners (like myself). Let's hope this means they don't draft a running back. Can't wait to see Morris behind that line. 

 

[Alex P Keaton]

So anyway.... this Alfred Morris guy, he plays for Dallas now. Obviously this is a great for Morris' dynasty owners (like myself). Let's hope this means they don't draft a running back. Can't wait to see Morris behind that line. 

Sell high now