Another "Stand Your Ground" Case in FL...it's a tough one. Your thoughts? (1 Viewer)

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Do I recall correctly that you’ve only ever lost one trial and you believed it to be nullification?

That was true in both counts. Since that time I have lost again to both a jury and to the bench.  As for motion practice, set backs are more common.  Unlikely my record will change much now.  I have moved on to doing Contracts, though I do, occasionally consult with police and prosecutors and could conceivably try a few more cases in the future.  Mostly now I am moving out to pasture, slowly.  The courtrooms now belong to the young lions of your generation, coming now into your full powers as you and your peers are.  They are no place for an old timer like me.

When I retire I may come full circle and do a bit of defense work from time to time.  It will be interesting if I can commit the mental trick of fully committing to zealous representation of the guilty, I mean clients who have been wrongfully accused or who have not been accorded their full panoply of rights.

 

[Zow]

That was true in both counts. Since that time I have lost again to both a jury and to the bench.  As for motion practice, set backs are more common.  Unlikely my record will change much now.  I have moved on to doing Contracts, though I do, occasionally consult with police and prosecutors and could conceivably try a few more cases in the future.  Mostly now I am moving out to pasture, slowly.

Sounds like you are either incredibly astute at taking cases to trial where you can clearly meet you burden, you’re a trial wizard, or some combination thereof. Either way it’s impressive. 

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Sounds like you are either incredibly astute at taking cases to trial where you can clearly meet you burden, you’re a trial wizard, or some combination thereof. Either way it’s impressive. 

I was fortunate that juries and the Courts often saw things as I might have hoped.   The cases more or less tried themselves, I just had to stay out of the way and wait for the Defendants to become their own worst enemies.  You might share that with your clients the next time they think they know better than your advice.  The fact is that I probably can't beat you or Henry Ford or any competent defense attorney at trial all that often, but I can wallop your clients. 

 

[[icon]]

DW remains one of my favorite reads on this forum and Is in my top 5 of FBG’s I’d love to sit down with over a few beers someday  

On the topic at hand, I’m about as vocal a 2A/CCW advocate as there is on these boards, but based on the evidence I’ve seen, this dickmitten in Florida needs to go to jail.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

DW remains one of my favorite reads on this forum and Is in my top 5 of FBG’s I’d love to sit down with over a few beers someday  

On the topic at hand, I’m about as vocal a 2A/CCW advocate as there is on these boards, but based on the evidence I’ve seen, this dickmitten in Florida needs to go to jail.

I would be pleased to stand for the first round.

 

[kutta]

I was fortunate that juries and the Courts often saw things as I might have hoped.   The cases more or less tried themselves, I just had to stay out of the way and wait for the Defendants to become their own worst enemies.  You might share that with your clients the next time they think they know better than your advice.  The fact is that I probably can't beat you or Henry Ford or any competent defense attorney at trial all that often, but I can wallop your clients. 

The best advice my dad ever gave me was, “You have to learn to keep your ... big ... mouth... shut!”

I have never been on trial, but I suspect that’s kind of what he had in mind for me.

 

[Chaos Commish]

DW remains one of my favorite reads on this forum and Is in my top 5 of FBG’s I’d love to sit down with over a few beers someday  

On the topic at hand, I’m about as vocal a 2A/CCW advocate as there is on these boards, but based on the evidence I’ve seen, this dickmitten in Florida needs to go to jail.

I doubt he ever goes to trial. Interpretations of that tape are understandably emotional. I think much of what I'm reading is mistaken. To be clear, I'd just as soon you shoot the shooter and we call it even, but he was knocked down violently. A bystander started getting out the way before the victim because he saw dickmitten going for his gun. Read that sentence again. The victim wasn't backing off as soon as the dude walking toward the fray. Go frame by frame. He did take a step and a half back as dickmitten pulled and fired but it is very very common for dickmittens to be trained to never pull unless they intend to fire. He got knocked on his ####, pulled and fired like he was taught in a state that considers this perfectly legal. Why would he go to trial?

 

[Bossman]

Where is the line here? I don't think this situation is what the law was intended for. At least I hope not.

a) What if the now dead guy didn't shove so hard ... and the clumsy gun guy didn't fall down ... Still justify a gun shot to the chest?

b) How about if now dead guy poked gun guy really hard with his index finger ... right in the chest ...  Does that justify deadly force?

c) What if was the woman who got out of the car and shoved gun guy to the ground ... ok to send her to her grave there?

d) If she hit him with here purse ... that justify deadly force?

Doesn't someone with a gun have to give the target the opportunity to back off? ... "stop or I'll shoot" seems like it would have ended the situation right there.

b) and d) seem borderline ... but it's FLA so probably still good.

.

What if there were audio ... and instead of saying "stop or I'll shoot" ... gun guy was saying "now yer gonna git it"

Would that change the law? Would he still not be charged?

Would this change anyones opinion that gun guys motive was not self defense but was retaliation?

Because that's what it strikes me as ... retaliation for being pushed to the ground. 

.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Stories like this really make you lose faith in humanity. This scenario had to involve three crappy people to occur. Each person taking it to the next level of crap. 

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

The best advice my dad ever gave me was, “You have to learn to keep your ... big ... mouth... shut!”

I have never been on trial, but I suspect that’s kind of what he had in mind for me.

I like the Ron White bit on him getting arrested as a young, drunk, man.  His bit ends with him being advised he had the right to remain silent, and after a pregnant pause he starts back in by saying "but unfortunately I did not have the ability to remain silent.

 

[Bossman]

I like the Ron White bit on him getting arrested as a young, drunk, man.  His bit ends with him being advised he had the right to remain silent, and after a pregnant pause he starts back in by saying "but unfortunately I did not have the ability to remain silent.

they call me ... "Tater Salad".

 

[doowain]

Can we just saw Florida off at the Georgia border and wave as it floats away?

 

[VT700GUY]

Standard of that law is that the insecure white male who the legislation was written for must feel afraid of serious bodily injury or death when shooting a (usually) unarmed black man.  

Here, any causal observer of the recording will not reasonably assume that the confrontation would progress to any further harm to the shooter.  (Guy who was shot backed away.) 

The law is written to protect the feelings of the shooter, however, not what’s reasonable, which is what makes it divorced from any reasonable standard of what is necessary and prudent if you have basic regard for human life.  

Of course the law assumes black people are scary and should know better/get what’s coming to them.  And the skeered white man, like the customer, is always right.  

You sound like a fool with this nonsense.  

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

You sound like a fool with this nonsense.  

While I do disagree with his assessment I would not dismiss him as a fool.  He embodies a position reached based upon some very real and visceral events.  Understanding him is important.  Dismissing him as you have does not reach him. 

 

[VT700GUY]

While I do disagree with his assessment I would not dismiss him as a fool.  He embodies a position reached based upon some very real and visceral events.  Understanding him is important.  Dismissing him as you have does not reach him. 

I'm most certainly not saying he is a fool.  I'm saying that continuing to repeat this nonsense makes him sound like one. 

 I'm sure there are some individuals who hold racist beliefs, but to think an entire law making body is making laws based on racial beliefs is tinfoil hat stuff and it prevents any positive discourse.  

 

[jon_mx]

While I do disagree with his assessment I would not dismiss him as a fool.  He embodies a position reached based upon some very real and visceral events.  Understanding him is important.  Dismissing him as you have does not reach him. 

Projecting motives and spewing rhetoric is not all that helpful though.   Not a huge fan of exaggerations and gross extrapolations.   There is a point in there, but it gets lost. 

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Can we just saw Florida off at the Georgia border and wave as it floats away?

If we're gonna do all that sawin, we may as well include Alabama and everything south of Macon as well.    

Vaya con dios, Terror Island.    Say hi to Cuba when you float past.  

:waves handkerchief:

 

[doowain]

If we're gonna do all that sawin, we may as well include Alabama and everything south of Macon as well.    

Vaya con dios, Terror Island.    Say hi to Cuba when you float past.  

:waves handkerchief:

In that case, forget waving. They're gettin' the bird. 

#byefelicia

 

[Mr.Pack]

I believe 100% in this law. But this case, no. he video is pretty clear. He was pushed, the aggressor backed down then was shot.

I call BS here. Guy should be charged with murder

 

[dutch]

Not so fast, my friends...

 

[eoMMan]

Not so fast, my friends...

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Let's say I get into a verbal confrontation with this guy and I goad him into losing his ####.  Can I legally shoot him since I've seen him in action before and can reasonably fear for my life?