What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Anti-Semitism (1 Viewer)

Can you define globalist for us 
It’s generally used in opposition to a Nationalist.  Decreasing national laws and government institutions in favor of more global government and arbiters.

I don’t even see why people would be ashamed of being called a “Globalist”.  It’s not a bad thing.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
  Let's just say Wall Street, bankers and corporations are the culprits, who seek profit by exploiting workers in poor countries.  Cheap labor, the new slavery.  
Well they attempt to exploit labor everywhere including here. They have forgotten their obligation to their community and think they are only obligated to their stock prices. 

 
"Trump's America Is Not A Safe Place For Jews"

George Washington, in his 1790 letter to the Touro Synagogue in Newport, R.I., told Jews they would be safe in the new nation.

“The government of the United States . . . gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance,” he wrote. “May the children of the stock of Abraham who dwell in this land continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants — while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid.”

Though that assurance has been tested, the United States has endured as a safe haven for Jews.

Now President Trump has violated Washington’s compact. He has given sanction to bigotry and assistance to persecution. After the shooting in Pittsburgh, which the Anti-Defamation League believes is the deadliest anti-Semitic attack in U.S. history, there is no longer safety under the vine and fig tree.

I had been dreading and expecting this day, and more like it, for two years. This was more than predictable; it was predicted.

After Trump’s presidential campaign began with genteel anti-Semitism, progressed to dog whistles and ended with a full-throated targeting of Jewish “globalists,” I wrote on Election Day that the results would be coming in on the 78th anniversary of Kristallnacht, the infamous night of Nazi violence and vandalism against German Jews: “I pray that on this solemn anniversary, Americans tell Donald Trump and the world that we are never going back there.”

After Charlottesville, when Trump said there “were very fine people” marching among the neo-Nazis chanting “Jews will not replace us,” I wrote about my daughter’s fear of returning to Hebrew school because of violence; armed white supremacists had chanted “Sieg Heil” and forced worshipers to flee a Charlottesville synagogue.

Consider some of the many times Trump gave sanction to bigotry before 11 worshipers were shot dead at the Tree of Life:

Telling Jewish Republicans they wouldn’t support him “because I don’t want your money.”

Tweeting an image from an anti-Semitic message board with a Star of David atop a pile of cash.

Saying “I don’t have a message” for supporters who threatened anti-Semitic violence against a Jewish journalist, and Melania Trump saying the writer “provoked” the threats.

Branding his campaign with the “America First” slogan of the anti-Semitic pre-war movement.

Alleging that “blood suckers” and “a global power structure” including “international banks” are secretly plotting against ordinary Americans.

And, when urged by the Anti-Defamation League to stop using traditionally anti-Semitic tropes, repeating the tropes in an ad with images of prominent Jews, including George Soros.

Once in office, in addition to making common cause with the Nazis of Charlottesville, Trump stocked his administration with Stephen K. Bannon and other figures of the nationalist “alt-right;” hesitated to condemn the rise of anti-Semitic threats and vandalism; issued a Holocaust remembrance statement without mention of Jews; lamented the attempts to silence Alex Jones, who peddles anti-Semitic conspiracy theories; and, declaring himself a “nationalist,” increased verbal attacks on “globalists,” particularly Soros.

Supposedly, American Jews are protected by Trump’s daughter Ivanka marrying into the faith, or by Trump’s fondness for Israel’s nationalist policies.

But it doesn’t work that way. The ADL reports a 57 percent risein anti-Semitic incidents in 2017. Other groups Trump targets — African Americans, Latinos, Muslims — have long experienced this and worse; a man in Kentucky last week allegedly tried to enter a black church before killing two black people at a supermarket. It is the new normal, though, for Jewish journalists and public figures to endure routine threats, for unabashed anti-Semitism to flourish in social media — and now for Jews to fear for their safety in quiet places like Pittsburgh, where I lived and worshiped for three years.

Whatever Trump’s motives, his words and deeds inspire the hateful and the violent. The man accused of sending pipe bombs to a dozen favorite Trump targets (including Soros) eschewed politics, his family’s lawyer says, until he “found a father in Trump.” The accused Pittsburgh gunman, though apparently rejecting Trump for being insufficiently nationalist, embraced on social media the themes Trump has popularized: the “globalist” danger, immigrant “invaders that kill our people” and an “infestation” of undesirables.

After the shooting, Trump read from the teleprompter the proper denunciation of anti-Semitism. But proceeding with a rally mere hours after the massacre, he galvanized the crowd with the same complaint the alleged Pittsburgh killer cited in social media before the carnage: the migrant caravan. Trump told the crowd, “No caravans, right? We don’t want caravans. We’re not having caravans.”

“Build the wall!” the crowd chanted.

Trump closed with his usual vow to fight “others” who are trying to “destroy our proud American heritage.” White supremacists get the message.

On Shabbat, Jewish custom says, God gives each of us a “neshamah yeteirah,” an extra soul for rejuvenation on the day of rest. But this Shabbat, we lost 11 souls. And our Jewish and American souls will continue to be so drained — unless our president changes his ways, or we change our president.
 
Nearly every time I read one of our Founders I become ashamed by my relative lack of literacy. When communication was less readily at hand one had to, I presume, craft with great care each individual communication.
Don't be too ashamed.  They were better writers but they didn't believe black people were fully human.  We have a leg up on them.

 
Yes. The "very successful " stereotype is one of the worst. 
I'm sure that even though large swaths of the populace hate Jews so much that they wish them dead, at least Jewish people can take solace that others think they're really good at running businesses. 

 
Ridiculous. As if violence against Jews just started. Plus this guy hated Trump. 
I listen to a few shows on the radio while driving to work in the morning, for me it’s a real mix. One of them is a local tea party station, and this morning the topic was of course this.

One caller pointed out that Bowers had the right information about the caravan, he just couldn’t handle it appropriately. And he said that of Sayoc too, he was right about those folks, he just couldn’t contain his anger he guessed.

I dunno, if someone is the enemy of the people, if they’re truly ‘evil’, or if they’re funding an invasion of our country which will destroy our republic, if someone believes that, then what is the proper response for them? 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is a pretty heavy topic, so I figured it was worth posting this inspirational video of a Pittsburgh Muslim leader speaking out after the synagogue shooting.
Thank you. It bothered me greatly that when Pence spoke on Saturday he continually mentioned Jews and Christians, synagouges and churches, but not once did he mention Muslims and mosques. It’s as if to a man like Pence they simply don’t exist. 

 
Well they attempt to exploit labor everywhere including here. They have forgotten their obligation to their community and think they are only obligated to their stock prices. 
Executives of corporations have a fiduciary responsibility to their stock holders that trumps obligations to community. Although there can be some overlap in that doing good for the community is in the best fiduciary interests of the stockholders. 

 
Henry Ford said:
He specifically denounced his history of antisemitic remarks. 
He was happy to meet with Farrakhan less than three years earlier, along with the CBC.  I doubt Farrakhan changed his stance in that time. 

 
timschochet said:
Thank you. It bothered me greatly that when Pence spoke on Saturday he continually mentioned Jews and Christians, synagouges and churches, but not once did he mention Muslims and mosques. It’s as if to a man like Pence they simply don’t exist. 
Of course. This administration has proven that over and over. 

Trump continuously says that he won 52% of the woman vote. When in actuality, he won 52% of the white woman vote. But that's all that matters to the administration - white people. Non-white people don't rate.

(And yes, I know that there are some white Muslims but not in Trump world).

 
The incredible PR job the Romans managed to make Christians blame Jews for the death of Jesus is amazing. 
Wasn't that hard to do that. In fact, they didn't even need to try. Most of the gentile christians were pagans to start with, and many of them already disliked Jews. A religion that suggested that the Jews screwed up and didn't recognize their own messiah would have legs in their circles just for laughs. 

 
Wasn't that hard to do that. In fact, they didn't even need to try. Most of the gentile christians were pagans to start with, and many of them already disliked Jews. A religion that suggested that the Jews screwed up and didn't recognize their own messiah would have legs in their circles just for laughs. 
Learn history 

 
Executives of corporations have a fiduciary responsibility to their stock holders that trumps obligations to community. Although there can be some overlap in that doing good for the community is in the best fiduciary interests of the stockholders. 
Yeah that's a relatively new take on business responsibility driven mostly by people who only care about their own pockets. And really it's just a fig leaf to do crappy stuff for an extra dime.

 
timschochet said:
Thank you. It bothered me greatly that when Pence spoke on Saturday he continually mentioned Jews and Christians, synagouges and churches, but not once did he mention Muslims and mosques. It’s as if to a man like Pence they simply don’t exist. 
We talking about when he spoke here and referred to "places of worship" or are we talking about here where he only mentioned churches and temples one time when he was repeating something the president said? 

I'll take a link, since I tried to find it independently and was only able to find those two clips, which are admittedly very short. 

 
I did. That's why I left christianity after 30+ years of being one. The version of history christianity teaches it's members isn't correct. 
Today’s Christianity teaches many things that aren’t true.  Jesus being a Jew and being killed by the Romans at the request of the Jews...that’s what clearly happened. 

 
shader said:
Today’s Christianity teaches many things that aren’t true.  Jesus being a Jew and being killed by the Romans at the request of the Jews...that’s what clearly happened. 
I 100% believe the Romans killed him.... because he had a following that believed he would rid the holy land of of its Roman occupation. The fact that the Jewish establishment also didn't like that his following believed he was the next anointed king of Israel wasn't even necessary at the time for Rome to do it. Killing Jesus didn't do much though, as the anti-roman occupation movement just continued to gain steam for the next few decades until Rome finally just kicked the Jews out of Jerusalem and Judea completely. That's when the gentile version of Christianity grew unopposed. To the original believers, Jesus was never a savior of the world who died to pay for our sins. To them he was the next anointed king of Israel who would re-unite the 12 tribes of Israel, and rid the holy land of foreign occupation. When Rome killed him, Jesus's brother James became the next leader because he was the next in line to the thrown via inheritance. That's why he became the leader of believers in Jerusalem after Jesus was killed even though he was not an apostle. Paul then meshed Jesus with existing pagan religious concepts to form the "gospel" christians believe today, that Jesus died for all men to pay for their sins so they could go to heaven if they believed in him. Paul would tell whoever he was talking to what they wanted to hear, so for many years the believers in Jerusalem didn't even know what Paul was out teaching because he would tell them what they want to hear and then turn around and tell gentiles what they want to hear to get them to believe in his gospel (he admits he didn't get his gospel from the apostles in Galatians 1:12). As soon as the Asians (who Paul admits all rejected him in 2 Timothy 1:15) called him out on it in front of the Jerusalem leaders, Paul and Jerusalem had nothing more to do with each other. But shortly after that Rome overthrew Jerusalem and eventually all of Judea too. At that point there is no Israel anymore. There's no country for Jesus (or his brother James through inheritance) to be King over anymore. That whole movement died off... and Paul's version grew unopposed... but they literally have nothing to do with each other as Paul made his gospel up, and the four gospels were written by followers of Paul after Jerusalem fell and the original belief died off. The gospels, despite what the church teaches, are NOT eyewitness accounts of what happened to Jesus at all. They were written to rewrite history to support Paul's gospel that he made up (claimed he got through visions). 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I 100% believe the Romans killed him.... because he had a following that believed he would rid the holy land of of its Roman occupation. The fact that the Jewish establishment also didn't like that his following believed he was the next anointed king of Israel wasn't even necessary at the time for Rome to do it. Killing Jesus didn't do much though, as the anti-roman occupation movement just continued to gain steam for the next few decades until Rome finally just kicked the Jews out of Jerusalem and Judea completely. That's when the gentile version of Christianity grew unopposed. To the original believers, Jesus was never a savior of the world who died to pay for our sins. To them he was the next anointed king of Israel who would re-unite the 12 tribes of Israel, and rid the holy land of foreign occupation. When Rome killed him, Jesus's brother James became the next leader because he was the next in line to the thrown via inheritance. That's why he became the leader of believers in Jerusalem after Jesus was killed even though he was not an apostle. Paul then meshed Jesus with existing pagan religious concepts to form the "gospel" christians believe today, that Jesus died for all men to pay for their sins so they could go to heaven if they believed in him. Paul would tell whoever he was talking to what they wanted to hear, so for many years the believers in Jerusalem didn't even know what Paul was out teaching because he would tell them what they want to hear and then turn around and tell gentiles what they want to hear to get them to believe in his gospel (he admits he didn't get his gospel from the apostles in Galatians 1:12). As soon as the Asians (who Paul admits all rejected him in 2 Timothy 1:15) called him out on it in front of the Jerusalem leaders, Paul and Jerusalem had nothing more to do with each other. But shortly after that Rome overthrew Jerusalem and eventually all of Judea too. At that point there is no Israel anymore. There's no country for Jesus (or his brother James through inheritance) to be King over anymore. That whole movement died off... and Paul's version grew unopposed... but they literally have nothing to do with each other as Paul made his gospel up, and the four gospels were written by followers of Paul after Jerusalem fell and the original belief died off. The gospels, despite what the church teaches, are NOT eyewitness accounts of what happened to Jesus at all. They were written to rewrite history to support Paul's gospel that he made up (claimed he got through visions). 
That’s an interesting theory but wholly unsupported by facts.  I think many of the lies of some of today’s christian churches have taken you to some odd spots in your thinking.

But if you’re of the belief that the gospels aren’t eyewitness accounts, it’s pretty silly to continue the discussion. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
That’s an interesting theory but wholly unsupported by facts.  I think many of the lies of some of today’s christian churches have taken you to some odd spots in your thinking.

But if you’re of the belief that the gospels aren’t eyewitness accounts, it’s pretty silly to continue the discussion. 
If you're of the belief that the gospels ARE eyewitness accounts, then I agree it's pretty silly to continue the discussion, as no one outside of believers believes they are at all. 

 
If you're of the belief that the gospels ARE eyewitness accounts, then I agree it's pretty silly to continue the discussion, as no one outside of believers believes they are at all. 
Not a surprise that “non-believers” feel that way.  Let’s not try and score points on the way out.  We just don’t agree.  Pretty simple.

 
Seeing as Islam wasnt around yet, was everyone in the Middle East at that point considered Jewish? 
In the Middle East? Absolutely not.

In Jerusalem, it was heavily Jewish, but not everyone in Jerusalem was Jewish. 

It should also be noted that Jews are technically only one of the 12 tribes of Israel.... they are the tribe of Judah. 

 
What were the other people considered? Pagans? 
Nusairism, Manichaeism, Sabianism, Bábism, Yazidism, Mandaeism, Gnosticism, Yarsanism, Samaritanism, Shabakism, Ishikism, Ali-Illahism, Alevism, Yazdânism, Zoroastrianism... just to name a few. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Would they be tribes? What type of god did they worship? And thanks 
Tribes of Israel? No. The Jews are the remnants of Israel after 10 of the tribes of Israel were lost after their land was conquered by the Assyrians in 8th century BC (I think). The return of the lost tribes was associated with the messiah. 

The many religions and gods being worshiped in the middle east prior to Christianity and Islam is a very, VERY broad subject. I wouldn't even consider Judaism to be a major subject of the study.  

 
Tribes of Israel? No. The Jews are the remnants of Israel after 10 of the tribes of Israel were lost after their land was conquered by the Assyrians in 8th century BC (I think). The return of the lost tribes was associated with the messiah. 

The many religions and gods being worshiped in the middle east prior to Christianity and Islam is a very, VERY broad subject. I wouldn't even consider Judaism to be a major subject of the study.  
It’s not. There has never been a time when Judaism wasn’t a very small minority of people. 

 
If you're of the belief that the gospels ARE eyewitness accounts, then I agree it's pretty silly to continue the discussion, as no one outside of believers believes they are at all. 
Pretty hard to think of them as eyewitness accounts given the time they were written. Also believe the current thinking is Mark is the first written (30 to 40 years after Jesus's death) with Mathew and Luke basically all rewrites of Mark with a few additions and John was written even latter (like 60 years after Jesus's death).  Hard to see how they were eyewitness accounts.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I 100% believe the Romans killed him.... because he had a following that believed he would rid the holy land of of its Roman occupation. The fact that the Jewish establishment also didn't like that his following believed he was the next anointed king of Israel wasn't even necessary at the time for Rome to do it. Killing Jesus didn't do much though, as the anti-roman occupation movement just continued to gain steam for the next few decades until Rome finally just kicked the Jews out of Jerusalem and Judea completely. That's when the gentile version of Christianity grew unopposed. To the original believers, Jesus was never a savior of the world who died to pay for our sins. To them he was the next anointed king of Israel who would re-unite the 12 tribes of Israel, and rid the holy land of foreign occupation. When Rome killed him, Jesus's brother James became the next leader because he was the next in line to the thrown via inheritance. That's why he became the leader of believers in Jerusalem after Jesus was killed even though he was not an apostle. Paul then meshed Jesus with existing pagan religious concepts to form the "gospel" christians believe today, that Jesus died for all men to pay for their sins so they could go to heaven if they believed in him. Paul would tell whoever he was talking to what they wanted to hear, so for many years the believers in Jerusalem didn't even know what Paul was out teaching because he would tell them what they want to hear and then turn around and tell gentiles what they want to hear to get them to believe in his gospel (he admits he didn't get his gospel from the apostles in Galatians 1:12). As soon as the Asians (who Paul admits all rejected him in 2 Timothy 1:15) called him out on it in front of the Jerusalem leaders, Paul and Jerusalem had nothing more to do with each other. But shortly after that Rome overthrew Jerusalem and eventually all of Judea too. At that point there is no Israel anymore. There's no country for Jesus (or his brother James through inheritance) to be King over anymore. That whole movement died off... and Paul's version grew unopposed... but they literally have nothing to do with each other as Paul made his gospel up, and the four gospels were written by followers of Paul after Jerusalem fell and the original belief died off. The gospels, despite what the church teaches, are NOT eyewitness accounts of what happened to Jesus at all. They were written to rewrite history to support Paul's gospel that he made up (claimed he got through visions). 
Relevant to this topic: I highly recommend Reza Aslan's Zealot, about the historical Jesus. One thing I learned is that, as you say, the development of what we think of as Christianity was largely the work of Paul years after Jesus' death, but also that his positioning of the religion was very much in response to the failed uprising against the Romans in 70 AD. After that, Jerusalem was destroyed and Judaism was banned. So, while the movement led by James immediately after Jesus' death had been a Jewish movement designed to appeal to other Jews, Paul sought to appeal to Gentiles and also shift blame for Jesus' death to the Jews, not because he hated them but because it was politically much safer than blaming the Romans.

 
The brand of anti-isreal rhetoric and positions taken by the more radical leftists groups such as BLM and the Green Party crosses the line into anti-Semitism.  Jewish people need to fear the left much more than the right, IMHO.  I would watch the Democratic platform in the next election because there is a good chance they will be moving towards more anti-isreal positions. 
Being against zionism really has nothing to do with antisemitism.  It might drift into antisemitism from certain segments, which is wrong and horrible, but it really shouldn't.  Israel does not own the Jewish identity. 

 
Being against zionism really has nothing to do with antisemitism.  It might drift into antisemitism from certain segments, which is wrong and horrible, but it really shouldn't.  Israel does not own the Jewish identity. 
First a definition- being against Zionism means being against the existence of the State of Israel. It is not the same as being a critic of the State of Israel, or of its current policies. If you are an anti-Zionist, you would prefer it if the state of Israel did not exist. 

Now theoretically you are correct: being anti-Zionist does not make you anti-Semitic. I wrote that in the OP. But in practical terms I have never encountered an anti-Zionist who didn’t also turn out to be an anti-Semite. 

 
First a definition- being against Zionism means being against the existence of the State of Israel. It is not the same as being a critic of the State of Israel, or of its current policies. If you are an anti-Zionist, you would prefer it if the state of Israel did not exist. 

Now theoretically you are correct: being anti-Zionist does not make you anti-Semitic. I wrote that in the OP. But in practical terms I have never encountered an anti-Zionist who didn’t also turn out to be an anti-Semite. 
That's not true.  Being against Zionism can happen in multiple ways, but most commonly it means opposition to Israel in its current form, which is really a supremacist ethnostate.  Israel has the right to exist just like any other state.  It does not have the right to ethnically cleanse people for being the wrong race.  

 
First a definition- being against Zionism means being against the existence of the State of Israel. It is not the same as being a critic of the State of Israel, or of its current policies. If you are an anti-Zionist, you would prefer it if the state of Israel did not exist. 

Now theoretically you are correct: being anti-Zionist does not make you anti-Semitic. I wrote that in the OP. But in practical terms I have never encountered an anti-Zionist who didn’t also turn out to be an anti-Semite. 
You probably have, but anti-zionists who are not anti-semitic aren't going to be as vocal as a person who is both anti-semitic and anti-zionist. Jews are great people... but I think the world would be better off if Israel was not established as a country in the last century. Not that I don't think they should have a country of their own. I would be fine if they established their own country in say Arizona or something. It's where they had to establish it that is the problem.   

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top