Average college freshman reads at 7th grade level (2 Viewers)

[Christo]

The average U.S. college freshman reads at a seventh grade level, according to an educational assessment report.

“We are spending billions of dollars trying to send students to college and maintain them there when, on average, they read at about the grade 6 or 7 level, according to Renaissance Learning’s latest report on what American students in grades 9-12 read, whether assigned or chosen,” said education expert Dr. Sandra Stotsky..

Stotsky, a Professor Emerita at the University of Arkansas, served on the Common Core Validation Committee in 2009-10, during which she called the standards “inferior.” She claimed the Common Core left out the very standards needed to prepare students for STEM (science, technology, engineering, and math) careers.

“The average reading level for five of the top seven books assigned as summer reading by 341 colleges using Renaissance Learning’s readability formula was rated 7.56 [meaning halfway through seventh grade],” Stotsky told Breitbart Texas.

The study also found that most high school graduates don’t do much with mathematics past eighth-grade compared to students in other high-achieving countries.

In addition, the lack of “difficulty and complexity” found in high school reading material is indicative of what colleges can assign to students once they enter higher education and professors aren’t requiring incoming students read at a college level.

“Nor are [colleges] sending a signal to the nation’s high schools that high school level reading is needed for college readiness,” said Stotsky. “Indeed, they seem to be suggesting that a middle school level of reading is satisfactory, even though most college textbooks and adult literary works written before 1970 require mature reading skills.”

Stotsky claims that reading development starts in elementary school and acknowledges the importance of a student’s willingness to practice reading outside the classroom.

She adds that despite societal changes over the past 100 years, both male and female students have continued to read the same type of material as past generations. Girls tend to gravitate towards books about relationships and animals, while boys enjoy adventure stories, military exploits, superheroes, and historical nonfiction.

“For almost 100 years, there have been many surveys in this country of what children prefer to read. Despite changes in immigration patterns, family literacy, and cultural influences, what boys and girls like to read has been relatively stable,” said Stotsky.

According to Breitbart Texas, Stotsky is credited with creating the strongest set of k-12 academic standards in the country while working for the Massachusetts Department of Education, and is responsible for developing licensure tests for prospective teachers.

Follow the author of this article on Twitter: @MaggieLitCRO

http://campusreform.org/?ID=6174

Murica! #### Yeah!

 

[CletiusMaximus]

The average U.S. college freshman reads at a seventh grade level, according to an educational assessment report.

This strikes me as inherently false. Maybe I don't understand the meaning of the word "average."

 

[The General]

College...the new Middle School.

 

[renesauz]

As someone who went back to college in their 40's, I can attest to this. Kids coming out of High School now are nowhere near as adept at reading/writing as they were 25 years ago or earlier. I was astonished at how poorly most of my classmates could read and write.

My oldest recently graduated from HS with honors, but can't write worth a darn and stumbles reading anything out loud. A big part of the problem is that kids aren't forced to read much in school anymore. Many school systems strapped for cash don't even hand out textbooks to the kids. My middle child is a senior about to graduate, and she's written ONE book report in the last 2 years.

 

[Bucky86]

They read gooder then you think they do. Get of my lawn!

 

[Zow]

As someone who went back to college in their 40's, I can attest to this. Kids coming out of High School now are nowhere near as adept at reading/writing as they were 25 years ago or

earlier. I was astonished at how poorly most of my classmates could read and write.

My oldest recently graduated from HS with honors, but can't write worth a darn and

stumbles reading anything out loud. A big part of the problem is that kids aren't forced to read much in school anymore. Many school systems strapped for cash don't even hand out textbooks

to the kids. My middle child is a senior about to graduate, and she's written ONE book report in the last 2 years.

No.

 

[dparker713]

As someone who went back to college in their 40's, I can attest to this. Kids coming out of High School now are nowhere near as adept at reading/writing as they were 25 years ago or earlier. I was astonished at how poorly most of my classmates could read and write.

My oldest recently graduated from HS with honors, but can't write worth a darn and stumbles reading anything out loud. A big part of the problem is that kids aren't forced to read much in school anymore. Many school systems strapped for cash don't even hand out textbooks to the kids. My middle child is a senior about to graduate, and she's written ONE book report in the last 2 years.

Book report? No one should be writing those past elementary school.

 

[cstu]

Average test scores of college freshman.

The number of people taking the SAT has gone up 50% in the past 20 years. If kids aren't getting smarter then it means more lower performing kids are taking the SAT and lowering the overall scores.

According to those academic experts, the threshold for being college-literate is a score of 400 on the SAT critical reading or writing test. Link

I don't see any schools on the link above that are enrolling student with a below 400 reading score.

 

[Andrew74]

When I taught college I was mortified at how poorly the students wrote but 7th grade is a little much.

 

[bushdocda]

That explains why college is so expensive.

And there's a app for reading probly.

 

[Sinn Fein]

If the average college freshman reads at a certain level, isn't that the de facto level for college freshmen?

 

[Cjw_55106]

Perhaps I’m at a fifth grade level? It says "latest report on what American students in grades 9-12 read, whether assigned or chosen,”.



What people choose to read, or are assigned to read doesn’t equate to their reading level IMO.



“The average reading level for five of the top seven books assigned as summer reading by 341 colleges using Renaissance Learning’s readability formula was rated 7.56 [meaning halfway through seventh grade],”



Again, this doesn’t mean a damn thing. Maybe I’d need to see the study, but the evidence presented isn’t convincing me of anything.

 

[NutterButter]

Where they at with math? They can learn to read on their own time.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Where they at with math? They can learn to read on their own time.

Are you a college Freshman?



The study also found that most high school graduates don’t do much with mathematics past eighth-grade compared to students in other high-achieving countries.

 

[NutterButter]

Where they at with math? They can learn to read on their own time.

Are you a college Freshman?

The study also found that most high school graduates dont do much with mathematics past eighth-grade compared to students in other high-achieving countries.

only in my dreams. The dumber kids are on average, the smarter my kid looks. Or am I thinking about this from the wrong perspective .

 

[Sabertooth]

As someone who went back to college in their 40's, I can attest to this. Kids coming out of High School now are nowhere near as adept at reading/writing as they were 25 years ago or

earlier. I was astonished at how poorly most of my classmates could read and write.

My oldest recently graduated from HS with honors, but can't write worth a darn and

stumbles reading anything out loud. A big part of the problem is that kids aren't forced to read much in school anymore. Many school systems strapped for cash don't even hand out textbooks

to the kids. My middle child is a senior about to graduate, and she's written ONE book report in the last 2 years.

No.

My experience is very similar. When I went back to school it was way different than my first time around.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Nothing wrong with thinking that way. Thinking another way wont change anything anyways.

 

[Sabertooth]

As someone who went back to college in their 40's, I can attest to this. Kids coming out of High School now are nowhere near as adept at reading/writing as they were 25 years ago or earlier. I was astonished at how poorly most of my classmates could read and write.

My oldest recently graduated from HS with honors, but can't write worth a darn and stumbles reading anything out loud. A big part of the problem is that kids aren't forced to read much in school anymore. Many school systems strapped for cash don't even hand out textbooks to the kids. My middle child is a senior about to graduate, and she's written ONE book report in the last 2 years.

Book report? No one should be writing those past elementary school.

Why's that?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Where they at with math? They can learn to read on their own time.

Glad you asked. A big part of my job during the summer involves working with incoming freshmen during new student orientation. This is a Midwestern public university -- our Carnegie classification is "research intensive" but think a step below the Big Ten. Not a top school, but not a satellite campus either. Pretty average, in other words.

The students I work with have selected a major in some flavor of economics or business. They're not engineering students, but they're also not aspiring psychology majors. All of them are going to have to take at least one semester of calculus and a semester of statistics. I probably personally meet with about 100-125 students per summer, and I've been doing this for several years now, so I feel pretty confident in my sample size. Our math department places students into an appropriate math course based on their high school preparation, ACT score, and in some cases a 30 minute test that they take during orientation.

I estimate that about a third of our students place into what is unambiguously remedial math. This is not "college algebra." It's learning out to factor, how to solve two linear equations in two unknowns, how to graph a line, etc. My son was doing this stuff in middle school. Admittedly, he's working ahead of grade, but all of this is material that students should have absolutely mastered very early in high school at the latest.

About half of our students get placed into "college algebra." I attended a more selective college, and that would have been a remedial course at my school. But it seems to be pretty normal at my current university and peer institutions. Again, I'm not talking about MIT and Stanford -- we're talking about average, run-of-the-mill college students. They apparently have to go to college to learn about trigonometry, logarithms, matrix operations, etc. They're not learning it in high school.

About 20%, give or take, get placed directly into calculus. After all these years, it still amazes me that these students are the exception, not the rule. My counterparts in engineering of all places also despair at the number of their incoming freshmen who don't place into calculus. Obviously their students fare better in this area in mine, but they're nowhere near 100%.

Finally, my colleagues and I can tell you from experience that even students who manage to stumble through college-level math courses still find themselves incapable of calculating a slope if the variables in question are Q and P instead of x and y.

 

[McGarnicle]

Plenty of project management jobs out there.

 

[lod01]

Give it another decade or so and it will be down to a 5th grade level.

 

[Ned]

Plenty of project management jobs out there.

If I had a nickel for every ditzy PM I know...

 

[Ilov80s]

I wonder what % of the US population attends college as opposed to other nations. I see a lot of kids pushed towards college that have no business going there. Ofcourse some college will take them because they want the money.

 

[Sabertooth]

I agree. If I were 18 right now I'd be looking into trades to be honest. There aren't going to be many plumbers or electricians left in 15 more years. They will be able to write their own checks.

 

[Guest]

Stotsky claims that reading development starts in elementary school and acknowledges the importance of a student’s willingness to practice reading outside the classroom.

That's kind of a big deal.

 

[Ilov80s]

I agree. If I were 18 right now I'd be looking into trades to be honest. There aren't going to be many plumbers or electricians left in 15 more years. They will be able to write their own checks.

Our education policies are quite poor in my opinion. It baffles me that we aren't searching out and training the future skilled labor force. Instead, we often waste time with college prep and often beat any interest in learning out of them.

 

[gianmarco]

Where they at with math? They can learn to read on their own time.

Glad you asked. A big part of my job during the summer involves working with incoming freshmen during new student orientation. This is a Midwestern public university -- our Carnegie classification is "research intensive" but think a step below the Big Ten. Not a top school, but not a satellite campus either. Pretty average, in other words.

The students I work with have selected a major in some flavor of economics or business. They're not engineering students, but they're also not aspiring psychology majors. All of them are going to have to take at least one semester of calculus and a semester of statistics. I probably personally meet with about 100-125 students per summer, and I've been doing this for several years now, so I feel pretty confident in my sample size. Our math department places students into an appropriate math course based on their high school preparation, ACT score, and in some cases a 30 minute test that they take during orientation.

I estimate that about a third of our students place into what is unambiguously remedial math. This is not "college algebra." It's learning out to factor, how to solve two linear equations in two unknowns, how to graph a line, etc. My son was doing this stuff in middle school. Admittedly, he's working ahead of grade, but all of this is material that students should have absolutely mastered very early in high school at the latest.

About half of our students get placed into "college algebra." I attended a more selective college, and that would have been a remedial course at my school. But it seems to be pretty normal at my current university and peer institutions. Again, I'm not talking about MIT and Stanford -- we're talking about average, run-of-the-mill college students. They apparently have to go to college to learn about trigonometry, logarithms, matrix operations, etc. They're not learning it in high school.

About 20%, give or take, get placed directly into calculus. After all these years, it still amazes me that these students are the exception, not the rule. My counterparts in engineering of all places also despair at the number of their incoming freshmen who don't place into calculus. Obviously their students fare better in this area in mine, but they're nowhere near 100%.

Finally, my colleagues and I can tell you from experience that even students who manage to stumble through college-level math courses still find themselves incapable of calculating a slope if the variables in question are Q and P instead of x and y.

You better mind your P's and Q's, Mister.

 

[Ilov80s]

Stotsky claims that reading development starts in elementary school and acknowledges the importance of a students willingness to practice reading outside the classroom.

That's kind of a big deal.

Huge deal. Kids read a lot outside of school, but it's FB, Tweets, texts written by other kids. It does seem to be getting slightly better. When I started teaching, I rarely saw any kids with their own personal books. Now, thanks to Harry Potter, Twilight, Hunger Games and the other high quality teen fiction, almost half the kids in school are reading something on their own. Lots of kids have a book with them and when they are done with their work will read it. Hopefully this trend continues and is a positive sign for the future.

 

[spreagle]

You have to be able to think to read at a high level. My middle school kid recently won a poetry/writing contest somehow and all the kids who placed had to read their poem. It was shocking and sad how poorly almost all the kids read THEIR OWN WRITING. 8th graders sounded like 3rd graders. Slow and quiet and stuttering like they were reading it for the first time. And these were supposedly the smart kids. I won't even get into the lousy content, I knew exactly what the content was going to be for some kids if you know what I mean. Something very very wrong is happening to the kids, its like they've been stripped of the ability to think, no wonder they can't read. I will give them credit that they've figured out how to game the system ... if I read or write about THIS then the teacher won't even dare to give me anything other than an A.

 

[Sabertooth]

I agree. If I were 18 right now I'd be looking into trades to be honest. There aren't going to be many plumbers or electricians left in 15 more years. They will be able to write their own checks.

Our education policies are quite poor in my opinion. It baffles me that we aren't searching out and training the future skilled labor force. Instead, we often waste time with college prep and often beat any interest in learning out of them.

Agreed. I think parents need to take the bull by the horns in terms of educating their kids. That and a little teaching about interpersonal communications would set your kids up for success big time.

 

[dino259]

I agree. If I were 18 right now I'd be looking into trades to be honest. There aren't going to be many plumbers or electricians left in 15 more years. They will be able to write their own checks.

Our education policies are quite poor in my opinion. It baffles me that we aren't searching out and training the future skilled labor force. Instead, we often waste time with college prep and often beat any interest in learning out of them.

My oldest is only in 2nd grade and I would have no problem with him going into a trade. I also have no problem with him going to college, but just find something he likes. He's good in math so far. He is supposed to read 30 minutes a night at home. It is really hard to get all that in with supper and early bed time, but he enjoys it. Hope he stays with it. Need to keep it fun for him.

 

[trogg78]

Dolts like Em clearly bringing the average down.

 

[Sabertooth]

You have to be able to think to read at a high level. My middle school kid recently won a poetry/writing contest somehow and all the kids who placed had to read their poem. It was shocking and sad how poorly almost all the kids read THEIR OWN WRITING. 8th graders sounded like 3rd graders. Slow and quiet and stuttering like they were reading it for the first time. And these were supposedly the smart kids. I won't even get into the lousy content, I knew exactly what the content was going to be for some kids if you know what I mean. Something very very wrong is happening to the kids, its like they've been stripped of the ability to think, no wonder they can't read. I will give them credit that they've figured out how to game the system ... if I read or write about THIS then the teacher won't even dare to give me anything other than an A.

Not to be a but you have to wonder if there is an overriding reason that we seem to be dumbing down and making everything "fair."

 

[Sand]

Perhaps I’m at a fifth grade level? It says "latest report on what American students in grades 9-12 read, whether assigned or chosen,”.

What people choose to read, or are assigned to read doesn’t equate to their reading level IMO.

“The average reading level for five of the top seven books assigned as summer reading by 341 colleges using Renaissance Learning’s readability formula was rated 7.56 [meaning halfway through seventh grade],”

Again, this doesn’t mean a damn thing. Maybe I’d need to see the study, but the evidence presented isn’t convincing me of anything.

Exactly.

Whether or not the reading level of college freshmen sucks or not, this article is a steaming pile.

 

[NutterButter]

So looking up some stats, I find that 3.3 million students are expected to graduate from high school this year with like 2 million going to college. If say 25% of that instead went into a trade, is there enough demand to absorb that .5M along with the 1.3M that already aren't going to college?

 

[spreagle]

You have to be able to think to read at a high level. My middle school kid recently won a poetry/writing contest somehow and all the kids who placed had to read their poem. It was shocking and sad how poorly almost all the kids read THEIR OWN WRITING. 8th graders sounded like 3rd graders. Slow and quiet and stuttering like they were reading it for the first time. And these were supposedly the smart kids. I won't even get into the lousy content, I knew exactly what the content was going to be for some kids if you know what I mean. Something very very wrong is happening to the kids, its like they've been stripped of the ability to think, no wonder they can't read. I will give them credit that they've figured out how to game the system ... if I read or write about THIS then the teacher won't even dare to give me anything other than an A.

Not to be a but you have to wonder if there is an overriding reason that we seem to be dumbing down and making everything "fair."

I don't think there is a conspiracy, I think kids are getting dumber because they have fewer and fewer real world problem solving opportunities. Problem solving gets your brain working. Everything is given to kids these days so that even simple problem solving opportunities are rare. Some simple problem solving opportunities I had as a kid that no longer exist: 1) how to deliver 200 newspapers I could barely carry every Wednesday (kids don't deliver papers anymore we have the internet now), 2) how to stop my minnow trap from getting repeatedly stolen (the few kids who fish use plastics now), 3) how to make my bow shoot more accurately (good luck shooting in your backyard in the city without the cops showing up), 4) how to procure lumber and plan the tree fort (good luck finding a tree off your property to pound nails in, that's not allowed anymore), 5) how to fill my blueberry buckets as fast as I could so I wouldn't be in the woods all day getting eaten by mosquitoes (try getting a kid to find and pick a wild berry these days, it is hopeless, just go to the grocery store they will say). All problems have been "solved" leaving few remaining problems for the kids to solve. Except racism of course everyone is working really hard on that one.

 

[Ilov80s]

So looking up some stats, I find that 3.3 million students are expected to graduate from high school this year with like 2 million going to college. If say 25% of that instead went into a trade, is there enough demand to absorb that .5M along with the 1.3M that already aren't going to college?

More important is how many of these people graduate and with what degrees. Is there demand for another liberal arts degree? Worst case is 2 years of college, not cut it and drop out with debt and no degree.

 

[wazoo11]

You have to be able to think to read at a high level. My middle school kid recently won a poetry/writing contest somehow and all the kids who placed had to read their poem. It was shocking and sad how poorly almost all the kids read THEIR OWN WRITING. 8th graders sounded like 3rd graders. Slow and quiet and stuttering like they were reading it for the first time. And these were supposedly the smart kids. I won't even get into the lousy content, I knew exactly what the content was going to be for some kids if you know what I mean. Something very very wrong is happening to the kids, its like they've been stripped of the ability to think, no wonder they can't read. I will give them credit that they've figured out how to game the system ... if I read or write about THIS then the teacher won't even dare to give me anything other than an A.

Not to be a but you have to wonder if there is an overriding reason that we seem to be dumbing down and making everything "fair."

It's almost as if kids are taught in a way to please their teachers/parents without building any self confidence.

Schools in general aren't doing enough to get kids actively interested in reading to what they enjoy as subjects.

 

[Ilov80s]

You have to be able to think to read at a high level. My middle school kid recently won a poetry/writing contest somehow and all the kids who placed had to read their poem. It was shocking and sad how poorly almost all the kids read THEIR OWN WRITING. 8th graders sounded like 3rd graders. Slow and quiet and stuttering like they were reading it for the first time. And these were supposedly the smart kids. I won't even get into the lousy content, I knew exactly what the content was going to be for some kids if you know what I mean. Something very very wrong is happening to the kids, its like they've been stripped of the ability to think, no wonder they can't read. I will give them credit that they've figured out how to game the system ... if I read or write about THIS then the teacher won't even dare to give me anything other than an A.

Not to be a but you have to wonder if there is an overriding reason that we seem to be dumbing down and making everything "fair."

It's almost as if kids are taught in a way to please their teachers/parents without building any self confidence.

How does it please the teachers? I think in general teachers don't like having to spoon feed the kids and bend over backwards to demands. It's a lot more work for teachers. We have school of choice (like vouchers, etc) where parents have many options for where their kid will attend school. If the classes are too challenging or the kids are asked to do too much, parents can just pull their kid out. The most financially successful approach as a school would be to just let the kids do whatever and give them all good grades. If the customers are happy, what does it matter if they learn anything?

 

[Thorn]

Perhaps I’m at a fifth grade level? It says "latest report on what American students in grades 9-12 read, whether assigned or chosen,”.

What people choose to read, or are assigned to read doesn’t equate to their reading level IMO.

“The average reading level for five of the top seven books assigned as summer reading by 341 colleges using Renaissance Learning’s readability formula was rated 7.56 [meaning halfway through seventh grade],”

Again, this doesn’t mean a damn thing. Maybe I’d need to see the study, but the evidence presented isn’t convincing me of anything.

That was my reaction, too. We're basing "reading level" on what they are assigned or chose to read? I don't think that indicates ability.

 

[BassNBrew]

Different times. I spent a day creating a FORTRAN program to do what kids today can do in Excel or on their phone.

What I find interesting is when I ask a kid to get me a Phillips screwdriver and they have no clue.

When I was in school I took classes in typing, drafting, hunter's education, sewing, wood shop, cooking, and small engine repair.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I don't think there is a conspiracy, I think kids are getting dumber because they have fewer and fewer real world problem solving opportunities. Problem solving gets your brain working. Everything is given to kids these days so that even simple problem solving opportunities are rare. Some simple problem solving opportunities I had as a kid that no longer exist: 1) how to deliver 200 newspapers I could barely carry every Wednesday (kids don't deliver papers anymore we have the internet now), 2) how to stop my minnow trap from getting repeatedly stolen (the few kids who fish use plastics now), 3) how to make my bow shoot more accurately (good luck shooting in your backyard in the city without the cops showing up), 4) how to procure lumber and plan the tree fort (good luck finding a tree off your property to pound nails in, that's not allowed anymore), 5) how to fill my blueberry buckets as fast as I could so I wouldn't be in the woods all day getting eaten by mosquitoes (try getting a kid to find and pick a wild berry these days, it is hopeless, just go to the grocery store they will say). All problems have been "solved" leaving few remaining problems for the kids to solve. Except racism of course everyone is working really hard on that one.

Sometimes our internet goes out and the kids have to unplug it and plug it back in so they can play Minecraft.

 

[Cjw_55106]

I don't think there is a conspiracy, I think kids are getting dumber because they have fewer and fewer real world problem solving opportunities. Problem solving gets your brain working. Everything is given to kids these days so that even simple problem solving opportunities are rare. Some simple problem solving opportunities I had as a kid that no longer exist: 1) how to deliver 200 newspapers I could barely carry every Wednesday (kids don't deliver papers anymore we have the internet now), 2) how to stop my minnow trap from getting repeatedly stolen (the few kids who fish use plastics now), 3) how to make my bow shoot more accurately (good luck shooting in your backyard in the city without the cops showing up), 4) how to procure lumber and plan the tree fort (good luck finding a tree off your property to pound nails in, that's not allowed anymore), 5) how to fill my blueberry buckets as fast as I could so I wouldn't be in the woods all day getting eaten by mosquitoes (try getting a kid to find and pick a wild berry these days, it is hopeless, just go to the grocery store they will say). All problems have been "solved" leaving few remaining problems for the kids to solve. Except racism of course everyone is working really hard on that one.

Sometimes our internet goes out and the kids have to unplug it and plug it back in so they can play Minecraft.

Top of the class IMO.

 

[jhib]

Perhaps I’m at a fifth grade level? It says "latest report on what American students in grades 9-12 read, whether assigned or chosen,”.

What people choose to read, or are assigned to read doesn’t equate to their reading level IMO.

“The average reading level for five of the top seven books assigned as summer reading by 341 colleges using Renaissance Learning’s readability formula was rated 7.56 [meaning halfway through seventh grade],”

Again, this doesn’t mean a damn thing. Maybe I’d need to see the study, but the evidence presented isn’t convincing me of anything.

Exactly. I don't know if was intentional or not, but the wording used isn't all that clear. "Reading at a 7th grade level" is language typically used to describe the ability of the reader, which is how most people are taking this. But it seems the news here is that the freshmen are typically reading material that is written at a 7th grade level. Yeah, "reading at a 7th grade level" can be used to communicate that, but is still a poor choice of wording (unless you want more attention paid to your study, of course).

I'm pretty sure I have the ability to read at a significantly higher level than 7th grade, but I'd still choose Harry Potter over some academic snoozer of a book.

 

[kentric]

Perhaps I’m at a fifth grade level? It says "latest report on what American students in grades 9-12 read, whether assigned or chosen,”.

What people choose to read, or are assigned to read doesn’t equate to their reading level IMO.

“The average reading level for five of the top seven books assigned as summer reading by 341 colleges using Renaissance Learning’s readability formula was rated 7.56 [meaning halfway through seventh grade],”

Again, this doesn’t mean a damn thing. Maybe I’d need to see the study, but the evidence presented isn’t convincing me of anything.

My daughter had to read and analyze 'The Canterbury Tales'. When she came to me for assistance, I was no help to her at all to her. Perhaps the assigned work was TCT and that's how they came to the 7th grade conclusion. haha

 

[Guest]

Different times. I spent a day creating a FORTRAN program to do what kids today can do in Excel or on their phone.

What I find interesting is when I ask a kid to get me a Phillips screwdriver and they have no clue.

When I was in school I took classes in typing, drafting, hunter's education, sewing, wood shop, cooking, and small engine repair.

Maybe getting off topic and I hope this doesn't come off as "get off my lawn". I was changing the oil in the family vehicles when I was 12. I don't think my 20 year old son knows how to change the oil in his vehicle. That's my failure, not his. Maybe that's the point.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Different times. I spent a day creating a FORTRAN program to do what kids today can do in Excel or on their phone.

What I find interesting is when I ask a kid to get me a Phillips screwdriver and they have no clue.

When I was in school I took classes in typing, drafting, hunter's education, sewing, wood shop, cooking, and small engine repair.

Maybe getting off topic and I hope this doesn't come off as "get off my lawn". I was changing the oil in the family vehicles when I was 12. I don't think my 20 year old son knows how to change the oil in his vehicle. That's my failure, not his. Maybe that's the point.

I'm 41 and I've never changed my own oil. Doesn't seem like it's an important skill to have.

 

[NutterButter]

So looking up some stats, I find that 3.3 million students are expected to graduate from high school this year with like 2 million going to college. If say 25% of that instead went into a trade, is there enough demand to absorb that .5M along with the 1.3M that already aren't going to college?

More important is how many of these people graduate and with what degrees. Is there demand for another liberal arts degree? Worst case is 2 years of college, not cut it and drop out with debt and no degree.

Absolutely. I was just addressing the alternative solution that many on this board mention. If there's not demand to absorb so many tradesman year after year, how better off are we? I still think the debt thing is a little over blown. Sure there's people that graduate with enormous debt but if the average is in the high 20K's for a 20 year low interest loan, how big of a deal is that.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Different times. I spent a day creating a FORTRAN program to do what kids today can do in Excel or on their phone.

What I find interesting is when I ask a kid to get me a Phillips screwdriver and they have no clue.

When I was in school I took classes in typing, drafting, hunter's education, sewing, wood shop, cooking, and small engine repair.

Maybe getting off topic and I hope this doesn't come off as "get off my lawn". I was changing the oil in the family vehicles when I was 12. I don't think my 20 year old son knows how to change the oil in his vehicle. That's my failure, not his. Maybe that's the point.

I'm 41 and I've never changed my own oil. Doesn't seem like it's an important skill to have.

I dont know if its important or not, but for me, the cost involved to having others do it vs the effort on my part (getting rid of the oil seems like a pain) isnt worth the $6 savings.

 

[D_House]

When is critical reading taught? IE at what grade level would most students reading this article be able to appreciate that its conclusions do not match the evidence presented?