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Baby it's Cold Outside (1 Viewer)

it's crazy to me that people seem to truly believe that a song, written in 1953, sung by one of the absolutely most popular and influential artists of the day, which appeared in a mainstream movie is explicitly and obviously about date rape.

and not only did Dean Martin croon about date rape but the very idea of raping women was so widely accepted that the song was so beloved and popular song that it became a Christmas standard.

and only NOW in 2018 did the truth of this horror get exposed.

it was in the movie Elf, for #### sake. Elf came out in 2003. it's ostensibly a kid's movie. we're supposed to believe that a song blatantly about rape is featured in a Will Ferrell Christmas kid's comedy?

what has the world come to? how did this happen?

 
It's probably 90% fake controversy so content providers have content and can get clicks/ratings. It works perfect for either side of the argument: outrage over a rapey song or outrage over PC culture. When everything runs 24/7, we have to find things to make important or scandalous that really aren't. There is nothing wrong with a station saying "the lyrics to this song seem kind of odd and don't necesarily fit into the themes of what we want our holiday music to be". That is fine and nobody should get angry about that (except for whomever is making $$$ off royalties). There is also nothing wrong with another station saying "looking at the context of the song in it's time, place and the movie it was in, we see nothing wrong with the song and will keep playing it." Both are perfectly fine approaches and any conversations stemming from it are just excuses to be mad and push content or a preconveived agenda. 

 
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it's crazy to me that people seem to truly believe that a song, written in 1953, sung by one of the absolutely most popular and influential artists of the day, which appeared in a mainstream movie is explicitly and obviously about date rape.

and not only did Dean Martin croon about date rape but the very idea of raping women was so widely accepted that the song was so beloved and popular song that it became a Christmas standard.

and only NOW in 2018 did the truth of this horror get exposed.

it was in the movie Elf, for #### sake. Elf came out in 2003. it's ostensibly a kid's movie. we're supposed to believe that a song blatantly about rape is featured in a Will Ferrell Christmas kid's comedy?

what has the world come to? how did this happen?
I really don't give a #### about the faux outrage about the song. But this faux outrage about the faux outrage about the song is pretty bad.

Lots of things in our past reflect the culture that date rape was just what guys do. Heck, even John Hughes movies reflect that culture. 

 
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I'm honestly lost on this. I think the song is fine, but hate the song. I love Zooey in Elf. So conflicted, but without the politicking.  

 
I really don't give a #### about the faux outrage about the song. But this faux outrage about the faux outrage about the song is pretty bad.

Lots of things in our past reflect the culture that date rape was just what guys do. Heck, even John Hughes movies reflect that culture. 
but i'm actually outraged 🙂

 
though, i will say if i learned anything from my friend's time as an executive at a major television broadcaster it's that all it takes is ONE person to complain about something being inappropriate and that "offensive" thing can get pulled immediately.

wish i still had the email chain he forwarded me years ago. presumably old lady wrote to complain about content on a channel geared primarily towards people from tween to 20s. the initial email was ridiculous.. followed by the ripple effect of the original pinging from department to department, to executive level, to PR, to Risk.. who determined that they couldn't chance this lady's complaint snowballing.... better to pull the plug asap.

all because one old bat got offended by Butthead or whatever it was

 
though, i will say if i learned anything from my friend's time as an executive at a major television broadcaster it's that all it takes is ONE person to complain about something being inappropriate and that "offensive" thing can get pulled immediately.

wish i still had the email chain he forwarded me years ago. presumably old lady wrote to complain about content on a channel geared primarily towards people from tween to 20s. the initial email was ridiculous.. followed by the ripple effect of the original pinging from department to department, to executive level, to PR, to Risk.. who determined that they couldn't chance this lady's complaint snowballing.... better to pull the plug asap.

all because one old bat got offended by Butthead or whatever it was
Wife has worked PR for 3 fortune 500 companies. So many examples of this. I have heard some ridiculous things. 

 
It’s time to bring an end to the Rape Anthem Masquerading As Christmas Carol

Hi there! Former English nerd/teacher here. Also a big fan of jazz of the 30s and 40s.

So. Here’s the thing. Given a cursory glance and applying today’s worldview to the song, yes, you’re right, it absolutely sounds like a rape anthem.

BUT! Let’s look closer!

“Hey what’s in this drink” was a stock joke at the time, and the punchline was invariably that there’s actually pretty much nothing in the drink, not even a significant amount of alcohol.

See, this woman is staying late, unchaperoned, at a dude’s house. In the 1940’s, that’s the kind of thing Good Girls aren’t supposed to do — and she wants people to think she’s a good girl. The woman in the song says outright, multiple times, that what other people will think of her staying is what she’s really concerned about: “the neighbors might think,” “my maiden aunt’s mind is vicious,” “there’s bound to be talk tomorrow.” But she’s having a really good time, and she wants to stay, and so she is excusing her uncharacteristically bold behavior (either to the guy or to herself) by blaming it on the drink — unaware that the drink is actually really weak, maybe not even alcoholic at all. That’s the joke. That is the standard joke that’s going on when a woman in media from the early-to-mid 20th century says “hey, what’s in this drink?” It is not a joke about how she’s drunk and about to be raped. It’s a joke about how she’s perfectly sober and about to have awesome consensual sex and use the drink for plausible deniability because she’s living in a society where women aren’t supposed to have sexual agency.

Basically, the song only makes sense in the context of a society in which women are expected to reject men’s advances whether they actually want to or not, and therefore it’s normal and expected for a lady’s gentleman companion to pressure her despite her protests, because he knows she would have to say that whether or not she meant it, and if she really wants to stay she won’t be able to justify doing so unless he offers her an excuse other than “I’m staying because I want to.” (That’s the main theme of the man’s lines in the song, suggesting excuses she can use when people ask later why she spent the night at his house: it was so cold out, there were no cabs available, he simply insisted because he was concerned about my safety in such awful weather, it was perfectly innocent and definitely not about sex at all!) In this particular case, he’s pretty clearly right, because the woman has a voice, and she’s using it to give all the culturally-understood signals that she actually does want to stay but can’t say so.** She states explicitly that she’s resisting because she’s supposed to, not because she wants to: “I ought to say no no no…” She states explicitly that she’s just putting up a token resistance so she’ll be able to claim later that she did what’s expected of a decent woman in this situation: “at least I’m gonna say that I tried.”** And at the end of the song they’re singing together, in harmony, because they’re both on the same page and they have been all along.

So it’s not actually a song about rape - in fact it’s a song about a woman finding a way to exercise sexual agency in a patriarchal society designed to stop her from doing so. But it’s also, at the same time, one of the best illustrations of rape culture that pop culture has ever produced. It’s a song about a society where women aren’t allowed to say yes…which happens to mean it’s also a society where women don’t have a clear and unambiguous way to say no.
 
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I really don't give a #### about the faux outrage about the song. But this faux outrage about the faux outrage about the song is pretty bad.

Lots of things in our past reflect the culture that date rape was just what guys do. Heck, even John Hughes movies reflect that culture. 
Who is outraged?  People are mocking the blind aledgance to the me too movement.  The hypersensitivity that is expected to be shown to certain groups.  

 
Will TNT or whoever shows Elf this season edit that scene out? Maybe not “will” they but “when” will they edit it out?

 
Will TNT or whoever shows Elf this season edit that scene out? Maybe not “will” they but “when” will they edit it out?


Well he is creeping in the shower un-invited.  Stop this rape culture!  Ban the whole movie.  It's the only way to be sure.

(well that and nuking the planet from orbit)

 
Wait a minute, trying to verbally convince a woman to extend the length of a date is now date rape? I have three sons that are not of dating age. When they are, they are so screwed and not in a dating kind of way. 

 
I hear it almost daily on the two stations here in Minnesota. Love it, especially since Will and Zooey performed it in Elf.
Speaking of Zooey... I am a BIG fan of the She & Him version of this song where they have the roles reversed. 
She & Him also did an excellent rendition of a somewhat obscure '60s song called "The Coldest Night Of The Year" (which itself was an attempt to re-write "Baby It's Cold Outside").

 
From one of @Keerock's holiday mixtapes, I was introduced to the Lady Antebellum version.  It's in steady rotation at my house/in the car this time of year.

 
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