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Best Super Bowl winning Giants QB (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Pai Mei
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Jimmy James
Footballguy
Give me the backup.
Chaka
Footballguy
Simms legacy is hampered by Hostetler, Eli won a ring in his 4th year and has nothing but upside as far as his career numbers, he could easily surpass anything Simms ever accomplished statistically and he has already matched him in the most important aspect of being an NFL player.
Simms for tenure, Eli for potential, Hostetler for grit.
Simms for tenure, Eli for potential, Hostetler for grit.
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the 22/25 kinda kills this debate IMO
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
At this stage in Eli's career, it's not even close, Simms by a country mile.
HOWEVER, this easily beats wide right as the best win in franchise history, regardless of the QB.
HOWEVER, this easily beats wide right as the best win in franchise history, regardless of the QB.
Chaka
Footballguy
I have been looking at the numbers and it isn't even close. Eli by a mile. Simms career didn't even get off the ground until his 5th season. He started 34 out of his first 64 games (53.1%), while Eli started 55 of 64 (86%). If you compare Simms first, and only, three seasons starting 16 full games (his 5th, 6th & 7th), Eli still comes out on top with a higher completion % (55.4-54.8), TDs (71-65) & INTs (55-60). Simms had more yards (11360-10342), a better QB rating (77.1-75.6), although I am not certain how that is calculated, and more wins (33-29).
And most importantly one Super Bowl Championship each.
Mind you to remember that I am comparing when they both became full time starters for their teams (i.e. Simms 5th-7th seasons to Eli's 2-4th seasons).
Eli and it isn't even close.
And most importantly one Super Bowl Championship each.
Mind you to remember that I am comparing when they both became full time starters for their teams (i.e. Simms 5th-7th seasons to Eli's 2-4th seasons).
Eli and it isn't even close.
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Funny, I missed the part of the first post where it was specified that this was the "best SB winning QB in terms of statistical accomplishments in first three years as a starter" poll.Eli is scattershot, makes horrible decisions, and overthrows WRs like it's his job (and when you overthrow Plaxico Burress, you've REALLY got a problem with overthrows). Just because he had an awesome 4-game stretch doesn't make him a great QB all of a sudden, regardless of when that 4-game stretch came. If you wanted, I'm sure I could find an even better 4-game stretch at some point during Aaron Brooks' career.Simms wasn't a worldbeater, but he was reliable, which is more than can be said about Eli.I will say this about Eli, though- he's definitely one cool customer.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Why is everyone acting like Simms has just one Super Bowl ring?
Chaka
Footballguy
Because of a guy named Jeff Hostetler.
Koya
Footballguy
It's weird because while I LOVE that ring, I will always hold against Parcells how he treated Simms that year and after.
BaBastage
Footballguy
Eli did a great job of leading his team through the playoffs and the Superbowl against huge odds.The worst thing you can say about Eli is, "He has the potential for greatness". If he continues to lead his team to victory over the next couple of seasons, then I'll start considering him among the elite, but not before.Jeez, some people around here get swept up sometimes.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
Is this a challenge?
horadadude
Footballguy
Uh - Parcells was not the coach, the year after they won the second SB. A guy named Ray Handley was and he was the dolt that picked Hoss over Simms.
Koya
Footballguy
I did not like how Parcells handled Simms THAT season. And please, don't bring up the name Ray Handley - its been such a nice few days here.
horadadude
Footballguy
Can we get away from calling this a normal 4 game stretch. We are talking about the Wild Card game on the road; the Divisional Playoff Game on the road; The Conference Championship - on the road; and the Superbowl. If you want - throw in the last game of the year against New England and this would be a 5 game stretch. The only other QB that I can think of that even experienced that was Big Ben. This is 25% of a season and Eli is a huge reason why the Giants went as far as they did. This is a trend not an anomalyEli did a great job of leading his team through the playoffs and the Superbowl against huge odds.The worst thing you can say about Eli is, "He has the potential for greatness". If he continues to lead his team to victory over the next couple of seasons, then I'll start considering him among the elite, but not before.Jeez, some people around here get swept up sometimes.
Chaka
Footballguy
The voting suggests that people think about Simms like he was some super efficient, world beating QB. He was decent, above average, maybe even good for a 3 year period of his career. But he was also inaccurate, injury prone and not much of a playmaker.
He had an awesome performance in a Super Bowl, which he deserves props for but remember the outcome of that game was never in doubt.
Eli didn't complete 88% of his passes but he had a virtually mistake free game against, well you have an idea about the level of competition he was playing against. And his 4th quarter numbers (9 of 14 for 152 & 2 TDs) are as impressive as they get. But for completion percentage what Eli did in the Super Bowl is more impressive than what Simms did.
Eli loses votes because he is not a very likable character, because of the whole San Diego draft day thing and, frankly he comes off as a doofus. Simms benefits from reputation votes from those who never really saw him play and nostalgia votes from those that did, but I am shocked that Simms is winning by such a wide margin.
He had an awesome performance in a Super Bowl, which he deserves props for but remember the outcome of that game was never in doubt.
Eli didn't complete 88% of his passes but he had a virtually mistake free game against, well you have an idea about the level of competition he was playing against. And his 4th quarter numbers (9 of 14 for 152 & 2 TDs) are as impressive as they get. But for completion percentage what Eli did in the Super Bowl is more impressive than what Simms did.
Eli loses votes because he is not a very likable character, because of the whole San Diego draft day thing and, frankly he comes off as a doofus. Simms benefits from reputation votes from those who never really saw him play and nostalgia votes from those that did, but I am shocked that Simms is winning by such a wide margin.
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Chaka
Footballguy
Did Simms achieve greatness in your opinion?Eli did a great job of leading his team through the playoffs and the Superbowl against huge odds.The worst thing you can say about Eli is, "He has the potential for greatness". If he continues to lead his team to victory over the next couple of seasons, then I'll start considering him among the elite, but not before.Jeez, some people around here get swept up sometimes.
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BaBastage
Footballguy
I didn't monitor Simms' career while he was playing, but based on NFL.com regular season stats: (I apologize this won't display well in HTML)Passer Rating, Eli #Games, Eli %, Simms # Games, Simms %50-69 15 33% 39 28%70-89 17 37% 42 30%90-109 8 17% 36 26%110-119 5 11% 15 11%120+ 1 2% 7 5%Sims clearly has an edge in passer rating. Is that "Great". I don't know, it's a subjective term. Was Phil more "Clutch"? Again, I can't say, I didn't watch him closely.All I can say is that Simms' sampling is 13 years, and Eli's is 4. I'm just saying I need to see more out of Eli, that's all. (He had a phenominal postseason run, but let's not forget he set the most incompletions in a game record this year iirc.)Also, I know these are regular season stats only. That wasn't intentional, I didn't realize postseason stats were available until halfway through the collection, and I've already spent more time on this stupid thread than its' worth.Chaka said:
Chaka
Footballguy
I am not even sure why you posted those numbers, Eli is a 4th year player so all his numbers are going to be skewed by his first season or two. But I can see your point for sure.But as was pointed out to me earlier this thread is about NYG Super Bowl winning QBs, who had the most impressive performance?I rank them Eli, Hoss, Simms.I didn't monitor Simms' career while he was playing, but based on NFL.com regular season stats: (I apologize this won't display well in HTML)Passer Rating, Eli #Games, Eli %, Simms # Games, Simms %50-69 15 33% 39 28%70-89 17 37% 42 30%90-109 8 17% 36 26%110-119 5 11% 15 11%120+ 1 2% 7 5%Sims clearly has an edge in passer rating. Is that "Great". I don't know, it's a subjective term. Was Phil more "Clutch"? Again, I can't say, I didn't watch him closely.All I can say is that Simms' sampling is 13 years, and Eli's is 4. I'm just saying I need to see more out of Eli, that's all. (He had a phenominal postseason run, but let's not forget he set the most incompletions in a game record this year iirc.)Also, I know these are regular season stats only. That wasn't intentional, I didn't realize postseason stats were available until halfway through the collection, and I've already spent more time on this stupid thread than its' worth.Chaka said:
Koya
Footballguy
Performance IN the Super Bowl?Simms was 22/25 for goodness sake.
Chaka
Footballguy
With 3 TDs and no picks!!!
Was the last 5 games Reggie Bush put up in 2006 a trend, too?Sometimes, a split is just a split and not an indication of some deeper change.Can we get away from calling this a normal 4 game stretch. We are talking about the Wild Card game on the road; the Divisional Playoff Game on the road; The Conference Championship - on the road; and the Superbowl. If you want - throw in the last game of the year against New England and this would be a 5 game stretch. The only other QB that I can think of that even experienced that was Big Ben. This is 25% of a season and Eli is a huge reason why the Giants went as far as they did. This is a trend not an anomalyEli did a great job of leading his team through the playoffs and the Superbowl against huge odds.The worst thing you can say about Eli is, "He has the potential for greatness". If he continues to lead his team to victory over the next couple of seasons, then I'll start considering him among the elite, but not before.Jeez, some people around here get swept up sometimes.
