Bitcoin-Explain to me how to buy these things (4 Viewers)

[RCon]

Modern fiat and banks are so unimaginably stupid alongside the invention of the blockchain that does all of it better and cheaper.

Modern fiat and banks have wasted hours of my life the last 2 days, and strained relationships with my clients by making their lives worse too.

First we had a client that we needed to pay $6285 to, but for personal reasons he needed it quickly. Faster than the 2-7 days of an ACH transfer, so he asked us to send via Zelle. Zelle, firstly, capped the amount we could send at $5000 because even though it's my money, they get to decide what we do with it. Then when the funds were sent, Zelle, which is usually instant, decided they were going to hold the funds for review and the client will receive them after review in 2+ days. So basically worthless, and the remaining $1285 had to go via slow ACH.

If solana or sui or a USD blockchain similar to those were our form of currency I could have moved that $6285 to the client in full, in 5 seconds, for pennies (most likely fractions of a penny).

Next, since our clients constantly complain about how slow our current ACH vendor is (quickbooks), and that it usually takes over a week to receive their funds after we schedule it, we decided to just schedule the ACH's direct from Chase since it's usually faster (but still several days). We pay $2.50 per transaction for this. On our first 12 attempts, all 12 were flagged as "under review". For each, I had to wait for a call, answer a slew of questions (do you know the recipient, etc), then go through 3 identity verification questions (what was your first car, etc). As if that wasn't annoying enough, on the 12th of those apparently I answered one of the verification questions wrong, the transaction was denied, and my account access locked. Which I then had to go through a whole separate department to re-verify identity and start over.

Now mind you, we have been banking with Chase for 20 years in various forms and have a lot of accounts with them, so we actually have a pretty decent banking relationship. And we still had to jump through all these hoops to move our own money.

It blows my mind that "we should spend millions or billions every month to pay people to manually, slowly, and inaccurately do what the blockchain can do instantly, automated, and virtually free" is still a majority viewpoint. It's so dumb that everyone is just happy to have a system where we have to get permission to use our own money, like we're a bunch of 8 year olds asking our parents if it's okay.

It sucks that people are ruining it with dumb crap like meme coins. But ignoring the blockchain because of that would be like if we just quit the internet because it was mostly chain emails and nigerian prince scams for a while.

I really disagree with this take. ACH or any of a dozen different existing methods could absolutely make payments instantly and for free. It's not the technology that prevents this. It's bank policies. Specifically, the banks want to take 3 days to make a payment. Why? If bank A deducts the amount from your account today and Bank B credits the amount to the payee's account in three days, that leaves three days where it's the banks not paying interest on your money. That adds up.

Ditto the fees. The technology doesn't cause fees. Bank policies do.

In short, the banks can already do exactly what blockchain does, they just choose not to.

 

[McBokonon]

l

Modern fiat and banks are so unimaginably stupid alongside the invention of the blockchain that does all of it better and cheaper.

Modern fiat and banks have wasted hours of my life the last 2 days, and strained relationships with my clients by making their lives worse too.

First we had a client that we needed to pay $6285 to, but for personal reasons he needed it quickly. Faster than the 2-7 days of an ACH transfer, so he asked us to send via Zelle. Zelle, firstly, capped the amount we could send at $5000 because even though it's my money, they get to decide what we do with it. Then when the funds were sent, Zelle, which is usually instant, decided they were going to hold the funds for review and the client will receive them after review in 2+ days. So basically worthless, and the remaining $1285 had to go via slow ACH.

If solana or sui or a USD blockchain similar to those were our form of currency I could have moved that $6285 to the client in full, in 5 seconds, for pennies (most likely fractions of a penny).

Next, since our clients constantly complain about how slow our current ACH vendor is (quickbooks), and that it usually takes over a week to receive their funds after we schedule it, we decided to just schedule the ACH's direct from Chase since it's usually faster (but still several days). We pay $2.50 per transaction for this. On our first 12 attempts, all 12 were flagged as "under review". For each, I had to wait for a call, answer a slew of questions (do you know the recipient, etc), then go through 3 identity verification questions (what was your first car, etc). As if that wasn't annoying enough, on the 12th of those apparently I answered one of the verification questions wrong, the transaction was denied, and my account access locked. Which I then had to go through a whole separate department to re-verify identity and start over.

Now mind you, we have been banking with Chase for 20 years in various forms and have a lot of accounts with them, so we actually have a pretty decent banking relationship. And we still had to jump through all these hoops to move our own money.

It blows my mind that "we should spend millions or billions every month to pay people to manually, slowly, and inaccurately do what the blockchain can do instantly, automated, and virtually free" is still a majority viewpoint. It's so dumb that everyone is just happy to have a system where we have to get permission to use our own money, like we're a bunch of 8 year olds asking our parents if it's okay.

It sucks that people are ruining it with dumb crap like meme coins. But ignoring the blockchain because of that would be like if we just quit the internet because it was mostly chain emails and nigerian prince scams for a while.

I really disagree with this take. ACH or any of a dozen different existing methods could absolutely make payments instantly and for free. It's not the technology that prevents this. It's bank policies. Specifically, the banks want to take 3 days to make a payment. Why? If bank A deducts the amount from your account today and Bank B credits the amount to the payee's account in three days, that leaves three days where it's the banks not paying interest on your money. That adds up.

Ditto the fees. The technology doesn't cause fees. Bank policies do.

In short, the banks can already do exactly what blockchain does, they just choose not to.

I think bank policies are part of what he takes issue with - the fact that the currency is domiciled at the bank itself which gives them the power to set policy on what is our own money, which is not the case with the true Libertarian ideal of blockchain. He’s not ignoring that at all.

I had my first transaction involving two banks who both adopted FedNow (I might have posted this already, can’t remember, not searching.) It was truly instantaneous, so it worked as designed. But, again, the banks themselves ultimately decide how much we can use that platform for.

 

[RCon]

Right, my point being that blockchain as a technology isn't particularly revolutionary. It's just another way to do things that we could already do.

 

[brun]

For anyone here get rich off Bitcoin? Any big scores?

Not a big score but I am profitable.
I changed from being trader-like to more investor-like. Not because being a trader is bad but because I wasn't any good at it. Now I'm mostly committed to a long term plan based on the halving cycle, meaning I plan (of course, plans can change) on selling my bitcoin & bitcoin ETFs the end of 2025 & buying back in mid 2027. Up until around last October I would add when I could buy the dip but stopped due to some unexpected medical and house bills.
Hopefully I'll eventually see the big score.

 

[Captain Cranks]

Right, my point being that blockchain as a technology isn't particularly revolutionary. It's just another way to do things that we could already do.

I think you're leaving out the important elements of decentralization and self custody. Blockchain allows full control of your assets. No middle man is necessary. You can argue that banks have the ability to make transactions a lot faster and cheaper, but they'll always be an unnecessary middle man.

 

[McBokonon]

Blockchain allows full control of your assets. No middle man is necessary

In the end, this all needs to get turned back into fiat, anyway, unless and until crypto becomes a ubiquitous, universally accepted currency without the crazy volatility we have now. I guess that’s the dream endgame?

 

[Captain Cranks]

Blockchain allows full control of your assets. No middle man is necessary

In the end, this all needs to get turned back into fiat, anyway, unless and until crypto becomes a ubiquitous, universally accepted currency without the crazy volatility we have now. I guess that’s the dream endgame?

Years down the road, sure. We still have a long way to go before we reach that kind of universal adoption.

Here's a scenario I ran into Monday that could have been prevented with crypto even without the USD offramp. I wanted to increase my company's posted collateral with a firm I trade with. When I went to send the wire I was rejected by my bank because it was President's Day. If it was completely self custody and the other firm was willing to accept crypto as collateral, I could have sent it to them in seconds without the need for a middleman. No approvals. No waiting. Complete control of my asset to send as I wish.

 

[Senor Schmutzig]

Ok, I'm in to the Bitcoin now.

I won $600 playing Super Bowl squares, and the winnings were sent to my Venmo because that's how I originally paid to get in. I already had $400 in my Venmo account, which is more than enough. I saw the Crypto button when in Venmo and thought, eh.....WTH. Thirty seconds later, I was an owner of .00607215 Bitcoin. When do I get rich?

 

[RCon]

Right, my point being that blockchain as a technology isn't particularly revolutionary. It's just another way to do things that we could already do.

I think you're leaving out the important elements of decentralization and self custody. Blockchain allows full control of your assets. No middle man is necessary. You can argue that banks have the ability to make transactions a lot faster and cheaper, but they'll always be an unnecessary middle man.

Aren't there plenty of other self-custody methods? Venmo, for instance? It's not exactly self-custody, but then, neither is Bitcoin/blockchain, as both of those rely on external systems remaining operable in the same form they are currently.

We're also ignoring the fact the blockchain isn't as secure/anonymous as it was once thought, right? As I understand it, there have been repeated instances of external parties learning who owned various crypto wallets.

 

[Captain Cranks]

Aren't there plenty of other self-custody methods? Venmo, for instance? It's not exactly self-custody, but then, neither is Bitcoin/blockchain, as both of those rely on external systems remaining operable in the same form they are currently.

We're also ignoring the fact the blockchain isn't as secure/anonymous as it was once thought, right? As I understand it, there have been repeated instances of external parties learning who owned various crypto wallets.

Venmo is still centralized and has limits on transactions. I could not have made the $100K collateral posting I was attempting to make on Presidents Day. Bitcoin is decentralized and the network can't be shut down unless the entire world's internet is shut down.

Security and anonymity are two different things. Regarding anonymity, the entire Bitcoin ledger going back to its inception is public. You can comb through every transaction of every wallet that's ever existed on the network. You may not know who the wallet belongs to, but tracing its activity and on/off ramps to fiat could give sufficient clues. As far as security, its existing encryption has never been broken and is expected to continue that way until nefarious actors gain access to quantum computers. The network is expected to be upgraded to a more sufficient encryption algorithm by then.

 

[Senor Schmutzig]

Ok, I'm in to the Bitcoin now.

I won $600 playing Super Bowl squares, and the winnings were sent to my Venmo because that's how I originally paid to get in. I already had $400 in my Venmo account, which is more than enough. I saw the Crypto button when in Venmo and thought, eh.....WTH. Thirty seconds later, I was an owner of .00607215 Bitcoin. When do I get rich?

I'm loving this crypto thing!

My minuscule piece of Bitcoin is already down $102.29 and (-16.75%) since I first bought it. AWESOME!

I am starting to see what all of the excitement is about! WOW!!!!

 

[brun]

Ok, I'm in to the Bitcoin now.

I won $600 playing Super Bowl squares, and the winnings were sent to my Venmo because that's how I originally paid to get in. I already had $400 in my Venmo account, which is more than enough. I saw the Crypto button when in Venmo and thought, eh.....WTH. Thirty seconds later, I was an owner of .00607215 Bitcoin. When do I get rich?

I'm loving this crypto thing!

My minuscule piece of Bitcoin is already down $102.29 and (-16.75%) since I first bought it. AWESOME!

I am starting to see what all of the excitement is about! WOW!!!!

Yep. Definitely not boring. Exciting when it goes up. Exciting when it goes down.

Bought a little more this morning. Wish I had more cash but have had some unexpected bills the last few months.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Right, my point being that blockchain as a technology isn't particularly revolutionary. It's just another way to do things that we could already do.

I think you're leaving out the important elements of decentralization and self custody. Blockchain allows full control of your assets. No middle man is necessary. You can argue that banks have the ability to make transactions a lot faster and cheaper, but they'll always be an unnecessary middle man.

Aren't there plenty of other self-custody methods? Venmo, for instance? It's not exactly self-custody, but then, neither is Bitcoin/blockchain, as both of those rely on external systems remaining operable in the same form they are currently.

We're also ignoring the fact the blockchain isn't as secure/anonymous as it was once thought, right? As I understand it, there have been repeated instances of external parties learning who owned various crypto wallets.

Venmo and blockchain are not even remotely comparable.

Venmo is the opposite of self custody. Venmo is a company. A for-profit company, no less. When you have money in there, you are giving your money to a 3rd party to hold, and accepting their rules on what you can do with it, and even when you can get it back. You accept all that in their ToS when you sign up.

They restrict transactions on the regular. If I wanted to send you $10,000 right now through Venmo, chances are very high they would not allow that. They flag and restrict transactions all the time based on their own rules. You've sent too many this month. You logged in with a new IP. You can only send $xxxx per week, they think it's for business purposes so they want to charge you more for that, they think it's fantasy football winnings, etc.

Further, Venmo even holds people's funds all the time, preventing them from withdrawing. As is within their right, based on what you accept when you sign up with them. Namely that they're a 3rd party company that can decide what you are allowed to do with that money, so long as they comply with banking regulations.

If you only need to send 20 bucks to your buddy a couple times a year, you don't notice what Venmo is because Venmo simply doesn't care to worry about those small and infrequent transactions. But if you need to move real money, or move money regularly, you will start seeing

If I wanted to send everyone in this thread $10,000 and I tried to do it through Venmo, they would tell me to **** off, decline the transactions, and probably suspend withdrawals on my account for suspicious actiivty. If I wanted to send everyone in this thread 0.1 BTC right now, I could do it in seconds and no one could stop me, because it's my money and I can do whatever I want with it.

 

[Captain Cranks]

If I wanted to send everyone in this thread 0.1 BTC right now, I could do it in seconds and no one could stop me, because it's my money and I can do whatever I want with it.

I'm not so sure. We're gonna need to test this out.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

If I wanted to send everyone in this thread 0.1 BTC right now, I could do it in seconds and no one could stop me, because it's my money and I can do whatever I want with it.

I'm not so sure. We're gonna need to test this out.

Sorry I tested the $10,000 via venmo instead. Didn't work

 

[brun]

If I wanted to send everyone in this thread 0.1 BTC right now, I could do it in seconds and no one could stop me, because it's my money and I can do whatever I want with it.

I'm not so sure. We're gonna need to test this out.

Sorry I tested the $10,000 via venmo instead. Didn't work

It took a while but I got mine. Thanks!

 

[eoMMan]

Ok, I'm in to the Bitcoin now.

I won $600 playing Super Bowl squares, and the winnings were sent to my Venmo because that's how I originally paid to get in. I already had $400 in my Venmo account, which is more than enough. I saw the Crypto button when in Venmo and thought, eh.....WTH. Thirty seconds later, I was an owner of .00607215 Bitcoin. When do I get rich?

I'm loving this crypto thing!

My minuscule piece of Bitcoin is already down $102.29 and (-16.75%) since I first bought it. AWESOME!

I am starting to see what all of the excitement is about! WOW!!!!

See, but if you went all in on doodooweimaranercoin, you'd be up 1,234%.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Anybody have a non-political reason why this is a good thing for crypto? I mean I appreciate the 15% pump in my Coinbase account, but really don’t understand the justification for this - especially the inclusion of XRP, SOL, and ADA.

https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/1896259848863691010?s=46&t=tS1wbZTBOsairGgZED-fNQ

And gotta love that there was front running, of course. Wonder whose buddy was in on that.

 

[Big League Chew]

Anybody have a non-political reason why this is a good thing for crypto? I mean I appreciate the 15% pump in my Coinbase account, but really don’t understand the justification for this - especially the inclusion of XRP, SOL, and ADA.

https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/1896259848863691010?s=46&t=tS1wbZTBOsairGgZED-fNQ

And gotta love that there was front running, of course. Wonder whose buddy was in on that.

Idk why they included BTC and ETH. They’re just a store of value ¯\_(シ)_/¯. Atleast XRP has utility

 

[Redwes25]

Anybody have a non-political reason why this is a good thing for crypto? I mean I appreciate the 15% pump in my Coinbase account, but really don’t understand the justification for this - especially the inclusion of XRP, SOL, and ADA.

https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/1896259848863691010?s=46&t=tS1wbZTBOsairGgZED-fNQ

And gotta love that there was front running, of course. Wonder whose buddy was in on that.

There is none.

 

[McBokonon]

Anybody have a non-political reason why this is a good thing for crypto? I mean I appreciate the 15% pump in my Coinbase account, but really don’t understand the justification for this - especially the inclusion of XRP, SOL, and ADA.

https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/1896259848863691010?s=46&t=tS1wbZTBOsairGgZED-fNQ

And gotta love that there was front running, of course. Wonder whose buddy was in on that.

If you’re a hypothetical billionaire investment banker who might hold the title of Crypto Czar and owned a ton of this stuff prior to the announcement, this is quite the lucky turn of events!

 

[Desert_Power]

Anybody have a non-political reason why this is a good thing for crypto? I mean I appreciate the 15% pump in my Coinbase account, but really don’t understand the justification for this - especially the inclusion of XRP, SOL, and ADA.

https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/1896259848863691010?s=46&t=tS1wbZTBOsairGgZED-fNQ

And gotta love that there was front running, of course. Wonder whose buddy was in on that.

If you’re a hypothetical billionaire investment banker who might hold the title of Crypto Czar and owned a ton of this stuff prior to the announcement, this is quite the lucky turn of events!

That would be quite the coincidence. Seems like oversight has been Sacked.

 

[SFBayDuck]

I mean I appreciate the 15% pump in my Coinbase account,

Nevermind.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Anyone have any experience with Crypto taxes? Sold a fair amount at a significant gain in 2024 and my record keeping wasn't as good as it should have been. Any software recommendations? Can TurboTax sort out coinbase to cold storage and then back again to sell?

 

[brun]

Anyone have any experience with Crypto taxes? Sold a fair amount at a significant gain in 2024 and my record keeping wasn't as good as it should have been. Any software recommendations? Can TurboTax sort out coinbase to cold storage and then back again to sell?

I've used Cointracker the last couple years. There is a cost, based on how many transactions you had. It's one of the apps that works with turbotax.
You'll probably be surprised at how many transactions you've had.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Anyone have any experience with Crypto taxes? Sold a fair amount at a significant gain in 2024 and my record keeping wasn't as good as it should have been. Any software recommendations? Can TurboTax sort out coinbase to cold storage and then back again to sell?

I've used Cointracker the last couple years. There is a cost, based on how many transactions you had. It's one of the apps that works with turbotax.
You'll probably be surprised at how many transactions you've had.

Thanks, I'll check it out. Gonna try and get this taken care of this weekend. I thought coinbase would track transactions a bit better and i only tracked my overall cost basis, but not the individual buys. Moved everything to cold storage and then back to coinbase years later, but only half. I have no idea which transactions made their way back. I think coinbase was set to last in first out, but i have no idea what the cold storage wallet moved back to coinbase in that regard. Anything to make this less of a headache would be great. Thanks again.

 

[Sand]

Anyone have any experience with Crypto taxes? Sold a fair amount at a significant gain in 2024 and my record keeping wasn't as good as it should have been. Any software recommendations? Can TurboTax sort out coinbase to cold storage and then back again to sell?

Koinly is what I used.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Well, Crypto taxes were about as much fun as i thought. There's got to be a circle of hell reserved specially for coinbase and turbotax, but atleast they're done.

Good luck to anyone else that was as dumb as me and didn't keep their own records on a spreadsheet.

 

[BassNBrew]

Well bitcoin seems to just be following the stock market. Can someone explain why that is?

 

[Nugget]

Well bitcoin seems to just be following the stock market. Can someone explain why that is?

Everyone is going to cash for the trade war?

 

[BassNBrew]

Well bitcoin seems to just be following the stock market. Can someone explain why that is?

Everyone is going to cash for the trade war?

I thought Bitcoin was an alternative form of cash.

 

[Sand]

Well bitcoin seems to just be following the stock market. Can someone explain why that is?

Everyone is going to cash for the trade war?

I thought Bitcoin was an alternative form of cash.

BTC is a risk asset, same as gold. Tether = cash.

 

[cubd8]

Well bitcoin seems to just be following the stock market. Can someone explain why that is?

Partly because it's in being traded on the stock market with ETF's. Some investors also view it as a risk asset, similar to tech stocks. It's also very liquid - 24/7 trading so tends to now lead when there's macro events where people want dollars. The general makeup of holders now are people who don't sell and embrace the volatility and the ETF's. It's early to tell how that all plays out, but if you can't take the 30% drops, you won't get the 80% gains (at least historically and continuing over the past year).

Bitcoin hit 107-108K and then had slowly fallen back to the mid/upper 70's to now back around 85K. It was initially ahead (as in losing value) of the stock market, then seemed to stabilize some in the low 80's while the broader market was getting destroyed. Some had started to speculate that perhaps Bitcoin de-coupling from the market, but a day later, it dropped by 7%. All in all, bitcoin has dropped over 30%, about 10% lower than the stock market, but the timing was not in sync.

 

[cubd8]

Right, my point being that blockchain as a technology isn't particularly revolutionary. It's just another way to do things that we could already do.

I think you're leaving out the important elements of decentralization and self custody. Blockchain allows full control of your assets. No middle man is necessary. You can argue that banks have the ability to make transactions a lot faster and cheaper, but they'll always be an unnecessary middle man.

Aren't there plenty of other self-custody methods? Venmo, for instance? It's not exactly self-custody, but then, neither is Bitcoin/blockchain, as both of those rely on external systems remaining operable in the same form they are currently.

We're also ignoring the fact the blockchain isn't as secure/anonymous as it was once thought, right? As I understand it, there have been repeated instances of external parties learning who owned various crypto wallets.

I use coinkite for my self-custody. It's not hard, but I don't move back/forth so have to re-teach myself. I totally understand why that's a turn-off for people. I know some people are much more comfortable just buying through ETF's, or buying on major exchanges (like Coinbase) where you may think there's no risk compared to other exchages.

 

[Captain Cranks]

New ATH.

 

[brun]

New ATH.

So, pizza tomorrow?

 

[Dezbelief]

2nd suspect arrested in SoHo torture case, officials say beatings, drugs and gun used

Like co-defendant John Woeltz, the second suspect is expected to face charges of kidnapping, assault and unlawful imprisonment, police sources said.

abcnews.go.com

Woeltz, a crypto entrepreneur, was arrested Friday after a tourist from Italy told police he was tortured in the suspect's SoHo apartment for more than two weeks, according to police.

The alleged 28-year-old victim told police he arrived in New York from Italy on May 6 and went to Woeltz's home. Woeltz allegedly took the man's passport, police said.

The alleged victim told police that Woeltz, 38, and another person beat him, used electric shock and hanged him off a ledge after he refused to provide his bitcoin password, according to the criminal complaint.

The alleged victim was able to escape Friday morning, running to a traffic enforcement officer for help, and was taken to the hospital, police said.

When police responded to the home, they found multiple Polaroid pictures of the alleged victim being tied up and tortured in Woeltz's apartment, as well as multiple torture items in view, according to police sources.

A gun was recovered in the home, police said.

 

[Desert_Power]

2nd suspect arrested in SoHo torture case, officials say beatings, drugs and gun used

Like co-defendant John Woeltz, the second suspect is expected to face charges of kidnapping, assault and unlawful imprisonment, police sources said.

abcnews.go.com

Woeltz, a crypto entrepreneur, was arrested Friday after a tourist from Italy told police he was tortured in the suspect's SoHo apartment for more than two weeks, according to police.

The alleged 28-year-old victim told police he arrived in New York from Italy on May 6 and went to Woeltz's home. Woeltz allegedly took the man's passport, police said.

The alleged victim told police that Woeltz, 38, and another person beat him, used electric shock and hanged him off a ledge after he refused to provide his bitcoin password, according to the criminal complaint.

The alleged victim was able to escape Friday morning, running to a traffic enforcement officer for help, and was taken to the hospital, police said.

When police responded to the home, they found multiple Polaroid pictures of the alleged victim being tied up and tortured in Woeltz's apartment, as well as multiple torture items in view, according to police sources.

A gun was recovered in the home, police said.

This story is crazy and I'm sure there will be more to come.