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Bobby Wade is Minny's No. 1 wideout? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Beaumont
- Start date
Beaumont
Footballguy
Vikings' receivers short on experience
BY DON SEEHOLZER
Pioneer Press
Article Last Updated: 05/24/2007 11:53:44 PM CDT
With the exception of Bobby Wade, the Vikings don't have a wide receiver with more than 61 NFL receptions, and nine of their 13 receivers have two years or fewer of NFL experience, but George Stewart is fine with that.
"Sure, I am," the Vikings' first-year wide receivers coach said Thursday. "With those guys, it's like anything else, when you add something new, it's a blank slate. Those guys are learning everything I'm teaching them now. If they fail to reach the level we want them to reach, you can put it on the ball coach. I will take full responsibility if they don't play well."
Stewart said it's too early to say who's starting, but Wade is the clear No. 1 by virtue of his 101 receptions in four seasons with the Chicago Bears and Tennessee Titans, with second-round draft choice Sidney Rice and former starter Troy Williamson considered the leading candidates for the other spot.
Rice and Williamson have looked good during this week's organized team activities, and offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell indicated Rice has made a strong impression.
"I like what I see," Bevell said. "He's really got great ball skills. He's still a young player; he's got a lot to learn. He still needs to learn better technique getting in and out of his cuts. But you can see just from the two weeks that they've been here that he's made those improvements and he'll continue to get better."
The rest of the receiving corps is a mixed bag, from draft choices Aundrae Allison and Chandler Williams to fifth-year veterans Billy McMullen and Randy Hymes to rookie free agent Todd Lowber, a former track star who never has played organized football.
Still, Stewart said he feels no need to add a proven veteran.
"I'm just trying to do the best I can with the guys I've got," he said. "We'll see where we are when we break training camp."
BY DON SEEHOLZER
Pioneer Press
Article Last Updated: 05/24/2007 11:53:44 PM CDT
With the exception of Bobby Wade, the Vikings don't have a wide receiver with more than 61 NFL receptions, and nine of their 13 receivers have two years or fewer of NFL experience, but George Stewart is fine with that.
"Sure, I am," the Vikings' first-year wide receivers coach said Thursday. "With those guys, it's like anything else, when you add something new, it's a blank slate. Those guys are learning everything I'm teaching them now. If they fail to reach the level we want them to reach, you can put it on the ball coach. I will take full responsibility if they don't play well."
Stewart said it's too early to say who's starting, but Wade is the clear No. 1 by virtue of his 101 receptions in four seasons with the Chicago Bears and Tennessee Titans, with second-round draft choice Sidney Rice and former starter Troy Williamson considered the leading candidates for the other spot.
Rice and Williamson have looked good during this week's organized team activities, and offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell indicated Rice has made a strong impression.
"I like what I see," Bevell said. "He's really got great ball skills. He's still a young player; he's got a lot to learn. He still needs to learn better technique getting in and out of his cuts. But you can see just from the two weeks that they've been here that he's made those improvements and he'll continue to get better."
The rest of the receiving corps is a mixed bag, from draft choices Aundrae Allison and Chandler Williams to fifth-year veterans Billy McMullen and Randy Hymes to rookie free agent Todd Lowber, a former track star who never has played organized football.
Still, Stewart said he feels no need to add a proven veteran.
"I'm just trying to do the best I can with the guys I've got," he said. "We'll see where we are when we break training camp."
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Banger
Footballguy
Ya, a whopping 101 catch's over 5 years. I'm not touching a Minny wr this year. You think Minny might run the ball a lot this year?
Beaumont
Footballguy
They are going to have a hard time doing that if/when they get down ...Minny is going to absolutely suck this year ...
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Banger and Beaumont both have an interesting slant on this.
1. The Vikes pas attack will be awful. Sorry but i am not a believer in Tavaris Jackson...you add in the fact they got rid of semi-decent vet WR like Travis Taylor and MRob, plus Jermaine Wiggins was sent on his way. They will be hard pressed to not have the worst passing offense in the league. And I have never liked the theory of "Someone has to catch it"...plus Troy Williamson looks awful, plus Sydney Rice is one of the biggest frauds at WR to come out in a long time...well maybe not that long but look at his game logs from last season...5 TD against some directional special needs Florida school, sorry but I am not impressed!
2. The Vikes spent their top pick on a RB...after they signed Chester to pretty big money last year, after they spent $49 million on Hutch...they are committed to running the ball. And they also stop the run quite well too I might add. 2.8 ypc their defense gave up last season with space eaters like Pat and Kevin Williams as their side by side DTs. I think Minnesota will be involved in a lot of low scoring games this season. I know their pass defense is not the best but you can't exactly run out the clock on them either.
I wouldn't bet a lot on any MN WRs this season...might not be a single one that breaks 50 catches.
1. The Vikes pas attack will be awful. Sorry but i am not a believer in Tavaris Jackson...you add in the fact they got rid of semi-decent vet WR like Travis Taylor and MRob, plus Jermaine Wiggins was sent on his way. They will be hard pressed to not have the worst passing offense in the league. And I have never liked the theory of "Someone has to catch it"...plus Troy Williamson looks awful, plus Sydney Rice is one of the biggest frauds at WR to come out in a long time...well maybe not that long but look at his game logs from last season...5 TD against some directional special needs Florida school, sorry but I am not impressed!
2. The Vikes spent their top pick on a RB...after they signed Chester to pretty big money last year, after they spent $49 million on Hutch...they are committed to running the ball. And they also stop the run quite well too I might add. 2.8 ypc their defense gave up last season with space eaters like Pat and Kevin Williams as their side by side DTs. I think Minnesota will be involved in a lot of low scoring games this season. I know their pass defense is not the best but you can't exactly run out the clock on them either.
I wouldn't bet a lot on any MN WRs this season...might not be a single one that breaks 50 catches.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
If by #1 they mean the guy that will catch the most number of balls this year, than that's probably an accurate statement.
But I think MoP is pretty close when he says the max receptions for a MN WR is around 50.
But I think MoP is pretty close when he says the max receptions for a MN WR is around 50.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
This is pretty much the same situation as last year, and I'll give the same assessment. You want the safest pick? You want the guy most likely to get 750 yards and 6 TDs? Yeah, that would be Bobby Wade. But, even so, that's pretty much his ceiling and who wants that? Who has the best chance to break 1000 yards? I wouldn't bet on any of these guys, but Williamson is still the most likely to do that, but that chance of him doing it is nil.
Nobody in this passing game is worth taking up a space on your roster.
Nobody in this passing game is worth taking up a space on your roster.
Beaumont
Footballguy
My problem with Minny is they will be involved in low scoring games IF they can shove the ball down the other team's throat with 8,9 in the box. But they will have to pass, and Jackson is totally untested and threw 2 TDs and 4 picks last year with a QB rating in the 60s.
IMHO they will have some tight, low scoring games and they will have plenty of games where they have some turnovers/defensive slips and get totally blown out ...
Their front 7 are fine. But they have secondary issues and frankly T. Jackson/Wade/Williamson/Schiancoe are going to be extremely hard pressed to put up any sort of passing game out there ... BTW, I read/heard Schiancoe was dropping passes and was less than impressive in camp thus far ...
Its a train wreck folks ...
IMHO they will have some tight, low scoring games and they will have plenty of games where they have some turnovers/defensive slips and get totally blown out ...
Their front 7 are fine. But they have secondary issues and frankly T. Jackson/Wade/Williamson/Schiancoe are going to be extremely hard pressed to put up any sort of passing game out there ... BTW, I read/heard Schiancoe was dropping passes and was less than impressive in camp thus far ...
Its a train wreck folks ...
Beaumont
Footballguy
Wade is the man for the first time, so get him the ball
TOM POWERS
Article Last Updated: 05/24/2007 11:53:20 PM CDT
At some point, Vikings quarterback Tarvaris Jackson is going to have to do something other than hand off to Chester Taylor or Adrian Peterson. If he doesn't, all 11 defenders, plus the water boy, are going to be camped at the line of scrimmage waiting for the ball carrier.
Now, looking at the Vikings' receiving corps, you might be tempted to say: No, that's OK, just keep handing off and then punt if necessary. But the KAO (kick-### offense) isn't built that way. It's way too dynamic for that. So Tarvaris is going to be flinging that old pigskin.
And which receiver could most often be the lucky recipient of those tosses?
Bobby Wade, he's your man!
"It's really like I'm in heaven," Wade said after Thursday's practice at Winter Park. "The timing couldn't be better. It all fell right into place. I feel like I'm with the right team at the right time with the right coaches."
Well, he's with the right team, that's for sure. The Vikings are mighty thin at receiver. And anybody who shows he can catch the ball is going to be looking skyward for so many passes that he'll have a permanent crick in his neck.
Wade was signed as a free agent. He has four years of NFL experience, two with the Chicago Bears and two with the Tennessee Titans, and has shown flashes of being a good receiver, although he has operated mostly from the slot in three-wideout sets. He has caught 101 passes in his career for 1,199 yards and two touchdowns. His best year was in 2004 with the Bears, when he started 14 of 16 games and caught 42 passes for 481 yards.
He also has had a very checkered career as a kick returner. Over the years he has fumbled a whopping 15 times, almost all of them while returning kicks.
"Growing pains," Wade said. "Everybody has them."
Hey, don't even worry about it. Wade is too valuable as a receiver to return kicks here. The Vikings have other slugs to do the dirty work on special teams.
These first few practices, or organized team activities, or jam sessions, or whatever they call them, have featured an extraordinary number of dropped balls. Wade has not been among those with a case of the dropsies. Granted, these aren't knock-your-block-off practices, but he's still looked good.
"Bobby has done an excellent job since he's been here," wide receivers coach George Stewart said. "The thing I like about Bobby Wade is that he's an outstanding leader. He's taken those young guys under his wing, and he's trying to teach them pro football."
Those young guys? Wade is 26.
"Bobby Wade is a professional," Stewart continued. "Whether or not he's a starter, I can't answer that right now because it's too early."
I can answer that! At five years and $15 million, he's a starter.
What's interesting is Wade came to Minnesota for a visit and then signed on the dotted line, opting not to travel and chat with other teams that were interested.
"As far as the travel, if you've seen one facility you've seen them all," Wade said.
But Bobby, this facility is a dump.
"Yeah," he agreed with a chuckle. "I guess it was more about the coaches."
After the Vikings signed Wade, they continued to look for another receiver, engaging in a couple of highly publicized flirtations. Meanwhile, Wade was a very interested observer, sitting at home and watching it all unfold. Or not unfold. In the end, they signed no one, meaning Wade still was the man.
"Right, still me," he said. "I know they brought me here to play. I'm comfortable taking on a bigger role."
Wade was never "the man" with the Bears or the Titans. If he does have some early success in the KAO, he'll have to deal with double coverage, probably for the first time in his career.
"It could get rough," he agreed. "But that's why we have all these other threats. We've got a lot of weapons here. We just have to put them all together - hopefully, by the second week of camp, or at least by the second preseason game."
I guess I don't see all the weapons that he sees.
The other leading receivers in camp include Billy McMullen, Jason Carter, rookie Sidney Rice and Troy Williamson. The organization has high hopes for Rice. Last season, Williamson had more issues than Norman Bates in the movie "Psycho."
Rumor has it that the first few plays of the first exhibition game already have been scripted. Supposedly, we'll see something very different this time around:
Handoff to Chester Taylor, handoff to Chester Taylor, handoff to Chester Taylor, handoff to Adrian Peterson - see? that's different - handoff to Chester Taylor. And then, depending on how well those handoffs go, it could be time for Tarvaris Jackson to Bobby Wade.
It might be the start of something big.
TOM POWERS
Article Last Updated: 05/24/2007 11:53:20 PM CDT
At some point, Vikings quarterback Tarvaris Jackson is going to have to do something other than hand off to Chester Taylor or Adrian Peterson. If he doesn't, all 11 defenders, plus the water boy, are going to be camped at the line of scrimmage waiting for the ball carrier.
Now, looking at the Vikings' receiving corps, you might be tempted to say: No, that's OK, just keep handing off and then punt if necessary. But the KAO (kick-### offense) isn't built that way. It's way too dynamic for that. So Tarvaris is going to be flinging that old pigskin.
And which receiver could most often be the lucky recipient of those tosses?
Bobby Wade, he's your man!
"It's really like I'm in heaven," Wade said after Thursday's practice at Winter Park. "The timing couldn't be better. It all fell right into place. I feel like I'm with the right team at the right time with the right coaches."
Well, he's with the right team, that's for sure. The Vikings are mighty thin at receiver. And anybody who shows he can catch the ball is going to be looking skyward for so many passes that he'll have a permanent crick in his neck.
Wade was signed as a free agent. He has four years of NFL experience, two with the Chicago Bears and two with the Tennessee Titans, and has shown flashes of being a good receiver, although he has operated mostly from the slot in three-wideout sets. He has caught 101 passes in his career for 1,199 yards and two touchdowns. His best year was in 2004 with the Bears, when he started 14 of 16 games and caught 42 passes for 481 yards.
He also has had a very checkered career as a kick returner. Over the years he has fumbled a whopping 15 times, almost all of them while returning kicks.
"Growing pains," Wade said. "Everybody has them."
Hey, don't even worry about it. Wade is too valuable as a receiver to return kicks here. The Vikings have other slugs to do the dirty work on special teams.
These first few practices, or organized team activities, or jam sessions, or whatever they call them, have featured an extraordinary number of dropped balls. Wade has not been among those with a case of the dropsies. Granted, these aren't knock-your-block-off practices, but he's still looked good.
"Bobby has done an excellent job since he's been here," wide receivers coach George Stewart said. "The thing I like about Bobby Wade is that he's an outstanding leader. He's taken those young guys under his wing, and he's trying to teach them pro football."
Those young guys? Wade is 26.
"Bobby Wade is a professional," Stewart continued. "Whether or not he's a starter, I can't answer that right now because it's too early."
I can answer that! At five years and $15 million, he's a starter.
What's interesting is Wade came to Minnesota for a visit and then signed on the dotted line, opting not to travel and chat with other teams that were interested.
"As far as the travel, if you've seen one facility you've seen them all," Wade said.
But Bobby, this facility is a dump.
"Yeah," he agreed with a chuckle. "I guess it was more about the coaches."
After the Vikings signed Wade, they continued to look for another receiver, engaging in a couple of highly publicized flirtations. Meanwhile, Wade was a very interested observer, sitting at home and watching it all unfold. Or not unfold. In the end, they signed no one, meaning Wade still was the man.
"Right, still me," he said. "I know they brought me here to play. I'm comfortable taking on a bigger role."
Wade was never "the man" with the Bears or the Titans. If he does have some early success in the KAO, he'll have to deal with double coverage, probably for the first time in his career.
"It could get rough," he agreed. "But that's why we have all these other threats. We've got a lot of weapons here. We just have to put them all together - hopefully, by the second week of camp, or at least by the second preseason game."
I guess I don't see all the weapons that he sees.
The other leading receivers in camp include Billy McMullen, Jason Carter, rookie Sidney Rice and Troy Williamson. The organization has high hopes for Rice. Last season, Williamson had more issues than Norman Bates in the movie "Psycho."
Rumor has it that the first few plays of the first exhibition game already have been scripted. Supposedly, we'll see something very different this time around:
Handoff to Chester Taylor, handoff to Chester Taylor, handoff to Chester Taylor, handoff to Adrian Peterson - see? that's different - handoff to Chester Taylor. And then, depending on how well those handoffs go, it could be time for Tarvaris Jackson to Bobby Wade.
It might be the start of something big.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
That's a bit deceptive as the offense that the Vikes were running while he was in there was about as vanilla as I've ever seen an NFL offense be. He had little chance of success.
az_prof
Footballguy
I don't think we know who will be #1 yet. Could be Wade. Could be Williamson. Could be Rice. But I wouldn't be so quick to say TJax sucks. He did as well in his limited duty as Vince Young or Matt Leinart--and they had many more preseason reps as starter and better supporting cast.
Polyethylene Bag
Footballguy
Or your WR's have a problem getting open. Or only one side of the OL is any good.
I don't know where all this TJax hate is coming from, but it must be from people that haven't seen him play. He showed a lot of potential last year while the team was imploding around him. Yes he looked like a rookie, but he made a lot of passes that were just plain dropped, which doesn't show up in the stat line. Bottom line: it's WAAAAY too early to know how he's going to turn out, but having watched every snap he's been behind center I can say that there's no reason for all the hate.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Yeah well here's the thing...they can't all be good, do you know what I mean? They can't all throw for 4,000 yds and 25-30 TD can they? Few do anyways but there has to be someone at the bottem of the totem pole yes or no? And when you start looking around the league, its not hate that we have for TJax, its simply reality. now if he had Holt and Bruce, or Marvin and Reggie, I might have a slightly different view although I would be downgrading those WR too...but he has no veteran WR of real quality to throw to and he has a pair of frauds from South Carolina, and Jermaine Wiggins left too. What do you see as the upside for TJax in terms of FF this season? He has to be in the bottom 5 for sure...who would you have under him?Or your WR's have a problem getting open. Or only one side of the OL is any good.
Polyethylene Bag
Footballguy
I agree that the WR situation is obviously going to be an issue, no one is arguing that. I disagree that Sidney Rice is a fraud and think he will be a solid #1 in a year or two, although he can't be expected to step in as a rookie and carry this offense. At any rate, to answer your question, I would rank these QB's below him:Jason CampbellJake DelhommeByron LeftwichMatt SchaubTrent Green (If he doesn't end up starting for MIA then insert Cleo Lemon's name here)Chris SimmsBrodie CroyleFrye/QuinnMcCown/RussellThat would put him at #23.Yeah well here's the thing...they can't all be good, do you know what I mean? They can't all throw for 4,000 yds and 25-30 TD can they? Few do anyways but there has to be someone at the bottem of the totem pole yes or no? And when you start looking around the league, its not hate that we have for TJax, its simply reality. now if he had Holt and Bruce, or Marvin and Reggie, I might have a slightly different view although I would be downgrading those WR too...but he has no veteran WR of real quality to throw to and he has a pair of frauds from South Carolina, and Jermaine Wiggins left too. What do you see as the upside for TJax in terms of FF this season? He has to be in the bottom 5 for sure...who would you have under him?Or your WR's have a problem getting open. Or only one side of the OL is any good.I don't know where all this TJax hate is coming from, but it must be from people that haven't seen him play. He showed a lot of potential last year while the team was imploding around him. Yes he looked like a rookie, but he made a lot of passes that were just plain dropped, which doesn't show up in the stat line. Bottom line: it's WAAAAY too early to know how he's going to turn out, but having watched every snap he's been behind center I can say that there's no reason for all the hate.
Beaumont
Footballguy
He is vying for the bottom 3 and has the least tools to work with ...ETA: I dont hate on the guy. He is going into his second year, his third start ever, and was a developmental project coming out ...
I think he has performed up to expectations. I do, however, think too much is being asked of him too early ...
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Jason Campbell: 10 TD in 5 starts last season, his 1st ever...I don't like him much either but I'd take him over TJAX for sure.Jake Delhomme: He has thrown for over 20 TD already in his career and has Steve Smith...you can't be serious.Byron Leftwich: Again not my favorite but he is leaps and bounds better than TJax at this stage.Matt Schaub: Has only looked like Superman when under center.Trent Green: Has thrown for 4,000 yds 3 seasons in a row till last season...again you cannot be serious.Chris Simms: Now you're working towards his neighborhood.Brodie Croyle: Huard is starting so just insert Jim Sorgi here while you are at it.Frye/Quinn: They all live on the same street.McCown/Russell: I like McCown a lot better.I agree that the WR situation is obviously going to be an issue, no one is arguing that. I disagree that Sidney Rice is a fraud and think he will be a solid #1 in a year or two, although he can't be expected to step in as a rookie and carry this offense. At any rate, to answer your question, I would rank these QB's below him:Jason CampbellJake DelhommeByron LeftwichMatt SchaubTrent Green (If he doesn't end up starting for MIA then insert Cleo Lemon's name here)Chris SimmsBrodie CroyleFrye/QuinnMcCown/RussellThat would put him at #23.Yeah well here's the thing...they can't all be good, do you know what I mean? They can't all throw for 4,000 yds and 25-30 TD can they? Few do anyways but there has to be someone at the bottem of the totem pole yes or no? And when you start looking around the league, its not hate that we have for TJax, its simply reality. now if he had Holt and Bruce, or Marvin and Reggie, I might have a slightly different view although I would be downgrading those WR too...but he has no veteran WR of real quality to throw to and he has a pair of frauds from South Carolina, and Jermaine Wiggins left too. What do you see as the upside for TJax in terms of FF this season? He has to be in the bottom 5 for sure...who would you have under him?Or your WR's have a problem getting open. Or only one side of the OL is any good.I don't know where all this TJax hate is coming from, but it must be from people that haven't seen him play. He showed a lot of potential last year while the team was imploding around him. Yes he looked like a rookie, but he made a lot of passes that were just plain dropped, which doesn't show up in the stat line. Bottom line: it's WAAAAY too early to know how he's going to turn out, but having watched every snap he's been behind center I can say that there's no reason for all the hate.
Re FF-
There's enormous value here. Granted I don't know which WR or TE but someone is leading that team in receptions and is going real late in drafts.
Shiancoe and Williamson have a ton of talent and(eh well some) NFL experience so I usually grab one of them.
To equal some of the rec stats some are predicting Tavaris will have to throw over 100 INTs or they'll have to run 7-800 times. Ya gotta give them something.
Re adding a vet QB-why? There's not much about this O that's built to win now, a veteran QB would seem lonely out there and Tavaris would get no experience. They seemed to purposely get young this offseason and got rid of their older TEs and WR too. It's time for Vikes fans to embrace them building for the future.
There's enormous value here. Granted I don't know which WR or TE but someone is leading that team in receptions and is going real late in drafts.
Shiancoe and Williamson have a ton of talent and(eh well some) NFL experience so I usually grab one of them.
To equal some of the rec stats some are predicting Tavaris will have to throw over 100 INTs or they'll have to run 7-800 times. Ya gotta give them something.
Re adding a vet QB-why? There's not much about this O that's built to win now, a veteran QB would seem lonely out there and Tavaris would get no experience. They seemed to purposely get young this offseason and got rid of their older TEs and WR too. It's time for Vikes fans to embrace them building for the future.
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az_prof
Footballguy
I don't doubt that he will struggle at times this year. I figure he will come in around #25 this year. But people who havent' seen him play or who haven't compared him fairly to other young QBs underestimate his long term, Dynasty value. He is talented, and while his WRs are young, the Vikings did a good job of drafting several young guys who will improve. Also, I think Williamson will improve with his eye-training from Nike, and reports out of mini-camps are very positive for him.Yeah well here's the thing...they can't all be good, do you know what I mean? They can't all throw for 4,000 yds and 25-30 TD can they? Few do anyways but there has to be someone at the bottem of the totem pole yes or no? And when you start looking around the league, its not hate that we have for TJax, its simply reality. now if he had Holt and Bruce, or Marvin and Reggie, I might have a slightly different view although I would be downgrading those WR too...but he has no veteran WR of real quality to throw to and he has a pair of frauds from South Carolina, and Jermaine Wiggins left too. What do you see as the upside for TJax in terms of FF this season? He has to be in the bottom 5 for sure...who would you have under him?Or your WR's have a problem getting open. Or only one side of the OL is any good.I don't know where all this TJax hate is coming from, but it must be from people that haven't seen him play. He showed a lot of potential last year while the team was imploding around him. Yes he looked like a rookie, but he made a lot of passes that were just plain dropped, which doesn't show up in the stat line. Bottom line: it's WAAAAY too early to know how he's going to turn out, but having watched every snap he's been behind center I can say that there's no reason for all the hate.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
a #1 WR is still a #1 WR.. he could be a bye week filler for a very good $$$$$$$
Polyethylene Bag
Footballguy
Huard may or may not be the starter come week 1, but Croyle will be under center fairly early in the season, if not week 1.With regard to your "you cannot be serious" comments, Dodds' projections are that TJax will outperform Delhomme, Leftwich, Schaub, and Green as well so not only am I serious, but I am not alone.Jason Campbell: 10 TD in 5 starts last season, his 1st ever...I don't like him much either but I'd take him over TJAX for sure.Jake Delhomme: He has thrown for over 20 TD already in his career and has Steve Smith...you can't be serious.Byron Leftwich: Again not my favorite but he is leaps and bounds better than TJax at this stage.Matt Schaub: Has only looked like Superman when under center.Trent Green: Has thrown for 4,000 yds 3 seasons in a row till last season...again you cannot be serious.Chris Simms: Now you're working towards his neighborhood.Brodie Croyle: Huard is starting so just insert Jim Sorgi here while you are at it.Frye/Quinn: They all live on the same street.McCown/Russell: I like McCown a lot better.I agree that the WR situation is obviously going to be an issue, no one is arguing that. I disagree that Sidney Rice is a fraud and think he will be a solid #1 in a year or two, although he can't be expected to step in as a rookie and carry this offense. At any rate, to answer your question, I would rank these QB's below him:Jason CampbellJake DelhommeByron LeftwichMatt SchaubTrent Green (If he doesn't end up starting for MIA then insert Cleo Lemon's name here)Chris SimmsBrodie CroyleFrye/QuinnMcCown/RussellThat would put him at #23.Yeah well here's the thing...they can't all be good, do you know what I mean? They can't all throw for 4,000 yds and 25-30 TD can they? Few do anyways but there has to be someone at the bottem of the totem pole yes or no? And when you start looking around the league, its not hate that we have for TJax, its simply reality. now if he had Holt and Bruce, or Marvin and Reggie, I might have a slightly different view although I would be downgrading those WR too...but he has no veteran WR of real quality to throw to and he has a pair of frauds from South Carolina, and Jermaine Wiggins left too. What do you see as the upside for TJax in terms of FF this season? He has to be in the bottom 5 for sure...who would you have under him?Or your WR's have a problem getting open. Or only one side of the OL is any good.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
VERY
TecmoBeast
Footballguy
I think Troy Williamson is the guy to get of this bunch. He's been working hard to improve his catching. There was a news bit not too long ago about one eye being weaker than the other. He's working at it and not being a baby about it. I believe his confidence will be back and he's flashed big plays before.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
All this uncertainty at WR leads me to valuing Shiancoe pretty highly......
If I told you last year you'd write that.....
gman8343
What would Lemmy do?
I kinda like him too - he's basically free right now. I got him in I think the 13th round of a startup dynasty league recently. The guy hasn't shown much yet, but if what I read is true about corrective eye surgery and his offseason work to improve his concentration and that does lead to more catches, he could be a nice value. I'm not convinced yet, but I'm (very) cautiously optimistic.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
How many Minny WRs did everyone have on their rosters last yr.... probably none... and the passing is going to be worst..
But hey.. its worth a filer...
But hey.. its worth a filer...
Weiner Dog
Footballguy
Sidney is still way too raw and Wade is...well...Wade. As a result, Williamson is extremely undervalued in redraft and, especially, keeper/dynasty leagues. Keep in mind that recent 1st-rounders like Javon Walker, Santana Moss and Reggie Wayne did not "break out" until the 3rd or 4th years.For whatever reason, 1st-round WR's have a higher-than-normal "bust" rate. Williamson will probably be grouped with Terrell, Rogers, etc until he lives up to his original lottery draft billing. However, unlike guys like Terrell and Rogers, Williamson seems intent on improving himself. This cannot be ignored.
Warhogs
Footballguy
One thing to keep in mind when looking at T Jackson's stats from last season and using them to look at this year. If I remember correctly one of the full games he started was in Green Bay last year with horrible weather. I am going off of what I recollect so I could be wrong?
Anyway, you probably will not be drafting a starting WR for FF from Minny but there is certainly value to be found in the Minny situation if you draft the right guy. Bobby Wade might be a great value pick late in drafts.
Anyway, you probably will not be drafting a starting WR for FF from Minny but there is certainly value to be found in the Minny situation if you draft the right guy. Bobby Wade might be a great value pick late in drafts.
msommer
Footballguy
He will have 10 games in domes. On top his December schedule is not bad in terms of weather: Detroit, @SF, CHI, WAS, @DEN - only week 17 looks like it might be bad weather - but that is largely irrelevant for FF purposes.
az_prof
Footballguy
I'm not sure how "raw" Rice is. He dominated in the SEC. Williamson was raw. Rice is a natural WR. Rice is "inexperienced". After training camp, 4 preseason games, 4 more regular season games, Rice will be the best WR on the Vikings. The only negative on Rice is that he needs to go up for the ball with more authority. Needs to shield defenders off. Needs to time his jumps better. He has a 35" vert, 6'3 frame, but doesn't maximize it. Coaching and focus should help, it doesn't worry me.Jeff has Rice at #4 on his rookie rankings. And I can't really argue with that. If he would have stayed in College, he'd be a top 15 pick next year. Before last year, people debated Calvin/Rice - who was better. Naturally most tabbed Calvin as the better WR, but it was not a landslide. Rice has all the tools, VERY young, just needs experience and coaching. Rice is going to dominate Williamson at every turn, and Wade will be carrying his bags on road trips. Rice is a guy you want to go get now, get for cheap, and just let him work his way up the Vikings depth chart - trust me it won't take him long.Sidney is still way too raw and Wade is...well...Wade. As a result, Williamson is extremely undervalued in redraft and, especially, keeper/dynasty leagues. Keep in mind that recent 1st-rounders like Javon Walker, Santana Moss and Reggie Wayne did not "break out" until the 3rd or 4th years.For whatever reason, 1st-round WR's have a higher-than-normal "bust" rate. Williamson will probably be grouped with Terrell, Rogers, etc until he lives up to his original lottery draft billing. However, unlike guys like Terrell and Rogers, Williamson seems intent on improving himself. This cannot be ignored.
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FavreCo
Footballguy
Needs a QB though. Bobby Wade as a #1. That is so comical. These guys and Miami are pathetic.
Gopher State
Footballguy
If you want a cheap long shot the kid Todd Lowber is turning heads in the vikes minicamp, he burned Whitaker for a 60 yard td, and Sharper for long gain. He is a rookie world class track star, big question as he has never played football before, but he is catching everything in minicamp. If he sticks with the team, he could surprise.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Who did Rice dominate exactly??? Almost all of the SEC teams he faced he bombed last season. @MSU...2 catches 13 ydsI'm not sure how "raw" Rice is. He dominated in the SEC. Williamson was raw. Rice is a natural WR. Rice is "inexperienced". After training camp, 4 preseason games, 4 more regular season games, Rice will be the best WR on the Vikings. The only negative on Rice is that he needs to go up for the ball with more authority. Needs to shield defenders off. Needs to time his jumps better. He has a 35" vert, 6'3 frame, but doesn't maximize it. Coaching and focus should help, it doesn't worry me.Sidney is still way too raw and Wade is...well...Wade. As a result, Williamson is extremely undervalued in redraft and, especially, keeper/dynasty leagues. Keep in mind that recent 1st-rounders like Javon Walker, Santana Moss and Reggie Wayne did not "break out" until the 3rd or 4th years.
For whatever reason, 1st-round WR's have a higher-than-normal "bust" rate. Williamson will probably be grouped with Terrell, Rogers, etc until he lives up to his original lottery draft billing. However, unlike guys like Terrell and Rogers, Williamson seems intent on improving himself. This cannot be ignored.
Jeff has Rice at #4 on his rookie rankings. And I can't really argue with that. If he would have stayed in College, he'd be a top 15 pick next year. Before last year, people debated Calvin/Rice - who was better. Naturally most tabbed Calvin as the better WR, but it was not a landslide. Rice has all the tools, VERY young, just needs experience and coaching.
Rice is going to dominate Williamson at every turn, and Wade will be carrying his bags on road trips. Rice is a guy you want to go get now, get for cheap, and just let him work his way up the Vikings depth chart - trust me it won't take him long.
GEORGIA ...3 catches 31 yds
AUBURN...4 catches 48 yds
@Kentucky...1 catch 15 yds
Tennessee...3 catches 52 yds
Pretty lousy numbers really...I can understand not tearing up LSU or Auburn, but Miss St and Kentucky...c'mon!
Let's look at his big games
He had 151 yds against Wofford...WOFFORD?
161 yds and 5 TDs against Florida Atlantic...Yippee!
2 TD against Middle Tennessee State
139 yds and a TD @ Houston
Pretty weak opponents IMO...
Welcome to the Shark Pool Dhizz,
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Okay okay, I'll educated you. This time is free.@UGA 5 catches for 70 yards 1 tdWho did Rice dominate exactly??? Almost all of the SEC teams he faced he bombed last season. @MSU...2 catches 13 ydsI'm not sure how "raw" Rice is. He dominated in the SEC. Williamson was raw. Rice is a natural WR. Rice is "inexperienced". After training camp, 4 preseason games, 4 more regular season games, Rice will be the best WR on the Vikings. The only negative on Rice is that he needs to go up for the ball with more authority. Needs to shield defenders off. Needs to time his jumps better. He has a 35" vert, 6'3 frame, but doesn't maximize it. Coaching and focus should help, it doesn't worry me.
For whatever reason, 1st-round WR's have a higher-than-normal "bust" rate. Williamson will probably be grouped with Terrell, Rogers, etc until he lives up to his original lottery draft billing. However, unlike guys like Terrell and Rogers, Williamson seems intent on improving himself. This cannot be ignored.
Jeff has Rice at #4 on his rookie rankings. And I can't really argue with that. If he would have stayed in College, he'd be a top 15 pick next year. Before last year, people debated Calvin/Rice - who was better. Naturally most tabbed Calvin as the better WR, but it was not a landslide. Rice has all the tools, VERY young, just needs experience and coaching.
Rice is going to dominate Williamson at every turn, and Wade will be carrying his bags on road trips. Rice is a guy you want to go get now, get for cheap, and just let him work his way up the Vikings depth chart - trust me it won't take him long.
GEORGIA ...3 catches 31 yds
AUBURN...4 catches 48 yds
@Kentucky...1 catch 15 yds
Tennessee...3 catches 52 yds
Pretty lousy numbers really...I can understand not tearing up LSU or Auburn, but Miss St and Kentucky...c'mon!
Let's look at his big games
He had 151 yds against Wofford...WOFFORD?
161 yds and 5 TDs against Florida Atlantic...Yippee!
2 TD against Middle Tennessee State
139 yds and a TD @ Houston
Pretty weak opponents IMO...
Welcome to the Shark Pool Dhizz,
Alabama 5 catches for 74 yards 1 td
@Auburn 3 catches 63 yards for 1 td
@Tenn 8 catches for 112 yards 2 tds
Florida 5 catches for 112 yards 0 tds
As a freshman? In the SEC? On a team with very questionable talent. Hello?
Rice had a rough 2nd year. The Gamecocks had a number of issues. No weapons, horrible QB, double coverage on Rice most of the time.
And yes, Rice was one of the top WRs in the SEC. He dominated in his freshmen year.
Incase you don't watch much college football, freshmen rarely come into the SEC and put up those kinds of numbers. On a bad team, against very good teams. Yes his 2nd year was a little rough, but it's a lot more then "Rice was okay in the SEC". I have no problems with saying Rice was dominant in college, in the SEC. He's an elite talent, did it against elite teams, and had a very questionable supporting cast.
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How convenient that you leave out:11/4 Arkansas L 26-20 7 126 18.0 28 1 11/11 @Florida L 17-16 7 72 10.3 15 11/25 @Clemson W 31-28 8 103 12.9 20 Three quality games against good competition.What do they have in common? Rice had Blake Mitchell throwing to him instead Syvelle Newton. Rice did struggle against top competition last year, but some of that is on Newton, who was the SEC's version of Reggie Ball.Who did Rice dominate exactly??? Almost all of the SEC teams he faced he bombed last season. @MSU...2 catches 13 ydsGEORGIA ...3 catches 31 ydsAUBURN...4 catches 48 yds@Kentucky...1 catch 15 ydsTennessee...3 catches 52 ydsPretty lousy numbers really...I can understand not tearing up LSU or Auburn, but Miss St and Kentucky...c'mon!Let's look at his big gamesHe had 151 yds against Wofford...WOFFORD?161 yds and 5 TDs against Florida Atlantic...Yippee!2 TD against Middle Tennessee State139 yds and a TD @ HoustonPretty weak opponents IMO...Welcome to the Shark Pool Dhizz,
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I didn't even say he was OK in the SEC...he was plain awful against real competition last season so what is the excuse? You are not educating me, you are simply pulling numbers out of your (bleep) to try and help your arguement. The facts are he was pretty pathetic against real teams last year and had explosive games against extremely weak competition minus a game or two that Bloom will come along and post anytime.Okay okay, I'll educated you. This time is free.@UGA 5 catches for 70 yards 1 tdWho did Rice dominate exactly??? Almost all of the SEC teams he faced he bombed last season. @MSU...2 catches 13 yds
GEORGIA ...3 catches 31 yds
AUBURN...4 catches 48 yds
@Kentucky...1 catch 15 yds
Tennessee...3 catches 52 yds
Pretty lousy numbers really...I can understand not tearing up LSU or Auburn, but Miss St and Kentucky...c'mon!
Let's look at his big games
He had 151 yds against Wofford...WOFFORD?
161 yds and 5 TDs against Florida Atlantic...Yippee!
2 TD against Middle Tennessee State
139 yds and a TD @ Houston
Pretty weak opponents IMO...
Welcome to the Shark Pool Dhizz,
Alabama 5 catches for 74 yards 1 td
@Auburn 3 catches 63 yards for 1 td
@Tenn 8 catches for 112 yards 2 tds
Florida 5 catches for 112 yards 0 tds
As a freshman? In the SEC? On a team with very questionable talent. Hello?
Rice had a rough 2nd year. The Gamecocks had a number of issues. No weapons, horrible QB, double coverage on Rice most of the time.
And yes, Rice was one of the top WRs in the SEC. He dominated in his freshmen year.
Incase you don't watch much college football, freshmen rarely come into the SEC and put up those kinds of numbers. On a bad team, against very good teams. Yes his 2nd year was a little rough, but it's a lot more then "Rice was okay in the SEC".
Add in the fact he is coming out of Steve Spurrier's program...he sent tons of WR to the NFL from the University of Florida and very few panned out. Darrell Jackson was probably the best of the bunch but there were lots more Reidel Anthonys and Jacquez Green types...now he didn't recruit Rice but I would judge Rice's progress last season as pretty meh...who cares what he did 3 years ago...is that how you construct your FF teams??? Stats form 3 years ago??? This session is free but next time I am charging you...also you might want to pick up some floaties for your arms before you jump back in the pool friend.
You been dishing it around here all morning and that 27,000+ member number means you are either brand new or you are a reincarnation of a banned member...neither is real positive when you are flinging posts around like this today...might want to ease it up a bit friend.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Arkansas was torn apart by USC...any of their corners drafted high in April?How convenient that you leave out:11/4 Arkansas L 26-20 7 126 18.0 28 1 11/11 @Florida L 17-16 7 72 10.3 15 11/25 @Clemson W 31-28 8 103 12.9 20 Three quality games against good competition.What do they have in common? Rice had Blake Mitchell throwing to him instead Syvelle Newton. Rice did struggle against top competition last year, but some of that is on Newton, who was the SEC's version of Reggie Ball.Who did Rice dominate exactly??? Almost all of the SEC teams he faced he bombed last season. @MSU...2 catches 13 ydsGEORGIA ...3 catches 31 ydsAUBURN...4 catches 48 yds@Kentucky...1 catch 15 ydsTennessee...3 catches 52 ydsPretty lousy numbers really...I can understand not tearing up LSU or Auburn, but Miss St and Kentucky...c'mon!Let's look at his big gamesHe had 151 yds against Wofford...WOFFORD?161 yds and 5 TDs against Florida Atlantic...Yippee!2 TD against Middle Tennessee State139 yds and a TD @ HoustonPretty weak opponents IMO...Welcome to the Shark Pool Dhizz,
@Florida...he had a 10 yd average per catch and no TDs...not exactly dominating Bloom.@Clemson...I didn't see them in the ACC Title game in a year that showcased Wake Forrest and Ga Tech, now c'mon Bloom, you are way better than this.
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So because Spurrier took over, Rice is going to be a bust? That's the out of the box thinking I come to the shark pool for. His freshmen year doesn't count? Are you an NFL scout? That's gold. *lol* Member number theory? Is that all you have left? I'm right because I signed up here a long time ago. That pretty much sums up your argument. So Spurrier jinx, and you've been at FBG a long time. Wow, I got owned. Thanks for dishing it out.I didn't even say he was OK in the SEC...he was plain awful against real competition last season so what is the excuse? You are not educating me, you are simply pulling numbers out of your (bleep) to try and help your arguement. The facts are he was pretty pathetic against real teams last year and had explosive games against extremely weak competition minus a game or two that Bloom will come along and post anytime. Add in the fact he is coming out of Steve Spurrier's program...he sent tons of WR to the NFL from the University of Florida and very few panned out. Darrell Jackson was probably the best of the bunch but there were lots more Reidel Anthonys and Jacquez Green types...now he didn't recruit Rice but I would judge Rice's progress last season as pretty meh...who cares what he did 3 years ago...is that how you construct your FF teams??? Stats form 3 years ago??? This session is free but next time I am charging you...also you might want to pick up some floaties for your arms before you jump back in the pool friend.You been dishing it around here all morning and that 27,000+ member number means you are either brand new or you are a reincarnation of a banned member...neither is real positive when you are flinging posts around like this today...might want to ease it up a bit friend.
So anyone who did anything against Arkansas, discount it, because USC crushed them. (I'll write these nuggets down)Only had 7 catches for a 10 yard average. *lol* Average yard per catch, in one game? And that's an argument? Against Florida. One of the best Ds in the nation. Only 7 catches. I see now, Rice is so overrated. With all that gamecock talent, how can he only produce 7 catches for 10 yard average.OMG Rice put up numbers against a team that never got to the title game. Discount that.So we know the rules, only games in title games, against top 5 programs, or USC count. Makes scouting very easy.And I love you lecturing Bloom about what he knows. That's rich.Arkansas was torn apart by USC...any of their corners drafted high in April?
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Chris Houston was drafted 41st overall.Arkansas was torn apart by USC...any of their corners drafted high in April?
1) Yes, Arkansas had Chris Houston drafted in the 2nd round. Rice OWNED him, where Bowe and Jarrett struggled, and Meachem only had modest success.2) Dominant no, but it shows that he wasnt automatically shut down by every good defense3) Again, it just shows more complexity than your assertion that Rice destroys the weakest teams and struggles again worthy competition.I just think there's more to the story than your portrayal of Rice.Arkansas was torn apart by USC...any of their corners drafted high in April?
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
It's not that his Freshman year doesn't count but should we also go back to high school? Pop Warner? Two Hand Touch in the street? I tossed out the member number as most folks wading into the SP tend to not come across as a tool right away...you have saved us the time from having to discover it on our own. J/K, relax a bit, you're entertaining...but I would encourage you to not talk down to folks that have logged a lot of time in here...usually doesn't end well and you get a vacation...I'm not trying to flame a fire here so again, relax a bit. If you can't admit Rice comes with serious doubts and question marks, then we just agree to disagree...but be prepared...threads have a funny way of getting bumped in here long after the posts have been tossed around.And I compete with Bloom in Dyansty Leagues, we're SP friends at the very least and have a lot of respect for what the other posts in here....he also has a very nice site of his own that he has been developiing. I am not disrespecting him, just voicing one of those rare difference of opinions he and I have. Good luck in here.So because Spurrier took over, Rice is going to be a bust? That's the out of the box thinking I come to the shark pool for. His freshmen year doesn't count? Are you an NFL scout? That's gold. *lol* Member number theory? Is that all you have left? I'm right because I signed up here a long time ago. That pretty much sums up your argument. So Spurrier jinx, and you've been at FBG a long time. Wow, I got owned. Thanks for dishing it out.I didn't even say he was OK in the SEC...he was plain awful against real competition last season so what is the excuse? You are not educating me, you are simply pulling numbers out of your (bleep) to try and help your arguement. The facts are he was pretty pathetic against real teams last year and had explosive games against extremely weak competition minus a game or two that Bloom will come along and post anytime. Add in the fact he is coming out of Steve Spurrier's program...he sent tons of WR to the NFL from the University of Florida and very few panned out. Darrell Jackson was probably the best of the bunch but there were lots more Reidel Anthonys and Jacquez Green types...now he didn't recruit Rice but I would judge Rice's progress last season as pretty meh...who cares what he did 3 years ago...is that how you construct your FF teams??? Stats form 3 years ago??? This session is free but next time I am charging you...also you might want to pick up some floaties for your arms before you jump back in the pool friend.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Right around Rice's spot...good info, thanks.Chris Houston was drafted 41st overall.Arkansas was torn apart by USC...any of their corners drafted high in April?
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I understand Bloom, I am in the camp that he will be a disaster in Minnesota...and with TJax as the QB, Rice apologists can milk a few extra seasons with the "He never had a Dan Marino throwing him the ball"...I just would like to settle it now when we look at these numbers. I highlighted most of the major SEC teams he went up against and he did pretty poor in most of them.Jarrett? Now there is a stud in the making...1) Yes, Arkansas had Chris Houston drafted in the 2nd round. Rice OWNED him, where Bowe and Jarrett struggled, and Meachem only had modest success.2) Dominant no, but it shows that he wasnt automatically shut down by every good defense3) Again, it just shows more complexity than your assertion that Rice destroys the weakest teams and struggles again worthy competition.I just think there's more to the story than your portrayal of Rice.Arkansas was torn apart by USC...any of their corners drafted high in April?
...he roasted Michigan and they had a corner taken in the 1st round. He had 5 catches in the Arkansas game that was a 50-14 BLOWOUT! Not sure he had to really crank it up. Jarrett had the game saving catch against Notre Dame in 2005...that guy has had many many many big games, big catches, big plays...and the defenses knew he was coming. He was even injured for part of 2006 and managed to destroy records in 3 seasons at SC...walked in as a Frehamn and dominated...that is the guy I think got overlooked in the draft.
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