Bobby Wade is Minny's No. 1 wideout? (1 Viewer)

[Jiggyonthehut]

Arkansas was torn apart by USC...any of their corners drafted high in April? @Florida...he had a 10 yd average per catch and no TDs...not exactly dominating Bloom.@Clemson...I didn't see them in the ACC Title game in a year that showcased Wake Forrest and Ga Tech, now c'mon Bloom, you are way better than this.

1) Yes, Arkansas had Chris Houston drafted in the 2nd round. Rice OWNED him, where Bowe and Jarrett struggled, and Meachem only had modest success.2) Dominant no, but it shows that he wasnt automatically shut down by every good defense3) Again, it just shows more complexity than your assertion that Rice destroys the weakest teams and struggles again worthy competition.I just think there's more to the story than your portrayal of Rice.

I understand Bloom, I am in the camp that he will be a disaster in Minnesota...and with TJax as the QB, Rice apologists can milk a few extra seasons with the "He never had a Dan Marino throwing him the ball"...I just would like to settle it now when we look at these numbers. I highlighted most of the major SEC teams he went up against and he did pretty poor in most of them.Jarrett? Now there is a stud in the making... ...he roasted Michigan and they had a corner taken in the 1st round. He had 5 catches in the Arkansas game that was a 50-14 BLOWOUT! Not sure he had to really crank it up. Jarrett had the game saving catch against Notre Dame in 2005...that guy has had many many many big games, big catches, big plays...and the defenses knew he was coming. He was even injured for part of 2006 and managed to destroy records in 3 seasons at SC...walked in as a Frehamn and dominated...that is the guy I think got overlooked in the draft.

Note that this Jarrett was shut down by Chris Houston, a guy you seem to pay no credence to. MoP i hope you don't flame me for being a 5 digiter but please feel free to search for my contributions to the Pool. Houston was widely considered the top cover corner in this draft hands down and confirmed by those who actually watched his film. It came as a shock to many of us that he DIDN'T go in Round 1 of the draft.EDIT: Leon Hall is a fine corner but his man-coverage skills dont hold a flame to Houston's. Hall was wildly inconsistent and was burned by guys like Jarrett because he offered up too big of a cushion for them to use. And IIRC, Jarrett was covered mostly in man situations by Morgan Trent and not Leon Hall. Correct me if I'm wrong on this but this is what I saw from the Rose Bowl.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Arkansas was torn apart by USC...any of their corners drafted high in April? @Florida...he had a 10 yd average per catch and no TDs...not exactly dominating Bloom.@Clemson...I didn't see them in the ACC Title game in a year that showcased Wake Forrest and Ga Tech, now c'mon Bloom, you are way better than this.

1) Yes, Arkansas had Chris Houston drafted in the 2nd round. Rice OWNED him, where Bowe and Jarrett struggled, and Meachem only had modest success.2) Dominant no, but it shows that he wasnt automatically shut down by every good defense3) Again, it just shows more complexity than your assertion that Rice destroys the weakest teams and struggles again worthy competition.I just think there's more to the story than your portrayal of Rice.

I understand Bloom, I am in the camp that he will be a disaster in Minnesota...and with TJax as the QB, Rice apologists can milk a few extra seasons with the "He never had a Dan Marino throwing him the ball"...I just would like to settle it now when we look at these numbers. I highlighted most of the major SEC teams he went up against and he did pretty poor in most of them.Jarrett? Now there is a stud in the making... ...he roasted Michigan and they had a corner taken in the 1st round. He had 5 catches in the Arkansas game that was a 50-14 BLOWOUT! Not sure he had to really crank it up. Jarrett had the game saving catch against Notre Dame in 2005...that guy has had many many many big games, big catches, big plays...and the defenses knew he was coming. He was even injured for part of 2006 and managed to destroy records in 3 seasons at SC...walked in as a Frehamn and dominated...that is the guy I think got overlooked in the draft.

Note that this Jarrett was shut down by Chris Houston, a guy you seem to pay no credence to. MoP i hope you don't flame me for being a 5 digiter but please feel free to search for my contributions to the Pool. Houston was widely considered the top cover corner in this draft hands down and confirmed by those who actually watched his film. It came as a shock to many of us that he DIDN'T go in Round 1 of the draft.EDIT: Leon Hall is a fine corner but his man-coverage skills dont hold a flame to Houston's. Hall was wildly inconsistent and was burned by guys like Jarrett because he offered up too big of a cushion for them to use. And IIRC, Jarrett was covered mostly in man situations by Morgan Trent and not Leon Hall. Correct me if I'm wrong on this but this is what I saw from the Rose Bowl.

I think it is pretty hard to gauge Houston in a 50-14 blowout. Were the Trojans throwing the ball in the 3rd and 4th quarter a lot? I am going to try and pull up the game log over at Sportsline...hang on...It looks like Ryan Powdrell was the leading the receiver and he was the FullBack...although Booty was 24/35 for 265 yds...it was his 1st game under center and Steve Smith also did not light it up so it probably took him a game or two to start nailing the WRs with the ball...just an observation I remember about the game. If Houston shut Jarrett down a bit in that game, good for him but I am not going to even hint that Rice is close to or better than Jarrett...DJ broke all kinds of Pac-10 records for TD, rec yds, catches, the guy really left his mark...and if he and Booty were not on the same page in the 1st game they played together, they certainly were towards the 2nd half of the season after Jarrett came back form an injury too I might add.I don't want to turn the thread into a Jarrett vs Rice, and to me its not even a comparison. Rice did the bulk of his damage last season against inferior talent, there is no doubt about it. Some of Jarrett's numbers from last season were 11/136/2TD against Nebraska, 7/132/3TD against Nortre Dame, and 11/205/2TD against Michigan in the Rose Bowl...those are big time teams from big conferences, not Florida Atlantic and WoofWoof or whatever the poor school South Carolina scheduled last year. Jarrett is a much more accomplished WR who sent Keyshawn Johnson, a WR that is perrenial 70+ catch receiver in the NFL, he sent him straight to the booth...you can laugh but Jarrett is already making his presence felt.

 

[kensat30]

Honestly, Minnesota's passing game is stacking up to be the hands down worst in the NFL this coming season. They beefed up their o-line and running game the past two consecutive seasons and had the overwhelming #1 rushing D last season. Their Wrs are the worst in the league, and the starting Qb is one of the greenest in the league. Chances are they aren't going to pass the ball much, and when the do pass the ball it is going to get ugly.

Why on Earth would you consider drafting Bobby Wade, a marginal NFL WR on the multiple teams he's played for, as a fantasy WR. You'd be better off taking Sidney Rice and hoping for the rookie magic.

 

[Routilla]

I will be avoiding all MIN players like the plague. Even AP may become worthless by the time they figure out how to throw the ball(2008,2009,2010)?

 

[pigskin pimp]

Williamson is the player to have. DB's can't cover him. The kid is fast and can get open.

He just can't catch the ball.

But he's been working in the offseason to correct that. Eye doctors at Nike headquarters to help try to help his vision.

Hopefully his confidence is not shattered, his concentration skills improve, and the Vike's try to work more quick slants and/or screens to try to utilize his speed.

If Bobby Wade stays the #1 WR in Minny, it's going to be a long season.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

Some of Jarrett's numbers from last season were 11/136/2TD against Nebraska, 7/132/3TD against Nortre Dame, and 11/205/2TD against Michigan in the Rose Bowl...those are big time teams from big conferences, not Florida Atlantic and WoofWoof or whatever the poor school South Carolina scheduled last year.

You were on shaky ground already, but just lost all semblance of credibility by pulling any stats against ND into this discussion. ND's pass defense was absolutely horrific, far worse than Arkansas and some of the other teams you dismiss out of hand. Even bringing that up shows no intellectual honesty in your argument. You're just throwing out big name schools for effect.(Plus, ND isn't in a conference, big-time or otherwise)

 

[DWidmar]

There has been alot of talk about Rice and Jarrett in this thread. Let me first say that I am a Gamecock fan so I am going to be a little biased. Comparing their carreers is a little unfair and comparing how Rice got shut down in big games vs Jarrett is like comparing apples to oranges.

Jarrett played for USC (southern cal). He had plenty of talent around him at all positions. There were plenty of weapons that could take the pressure off of him and help him be able to get open. If you double cover Jarrett, then Steve Smith (also a 2nd round pick ) could burn you. They were a top team in the nation or right at the top for the last few years.

Rice played for USC (south carolina) where he was the top play maker on the team. If you shut him down there was not really not another outstanding playmaker that could make you pay. Taking two or three guys to shut him down was easy as there was not a big chance somebody else on the team could make you pay. They were far from the best team in the SEC much less the best team in the nation. The Qb's throwing the ball in South Carolina are far from NFL talent and aren't even tops in the SEC. The QB's at Southern Cal have been drafted to the NFL and Booty is a far superior talent then Blake Mitchell or Syville Newton. Now there are some good role players on the Gamecocks but nowhere near the talent of Southern Cal.

So in my opinion Rice made the most of his talent considering what the abilities were of those that played around him. It was easy for teams to commit to shut him down as there were not many other weapons on the team. Yet in some games he was able to overcome those odds and still manage to put up solid numbers.

If you watched him play it was easy to see he has big talent and ability. He makes some great moves, can adjust his body while the ball is in the air (sometimes is sick with this), has great leaping ability and shows great ball skills to get to the ball while it is in the air. Sometimes you have to watch players like this rather than just look at the stats to get a feel for what their abilities really are.

Now I am not saying he will be a stud but I like his chances and it will take some time. It seem that every year on this board we put all this pressure on these rookie wr's to make an impact but yet we all know it almost always takes three or four years to learn the pro game. Anyway just my 2 cents

 

[Butt-Head]

The Vikes are going to be a train wreck.

No established QB on the roster with any extensive experience outside of Bollinger. WR corps are in shambles. The defense can't stop anyone through the air. The best player on the team, Antoine Winfield is unhappy with the F.O. and head coach.

Ziggy Wilf is lost as an owner and has issues getting a stadium. He put Fran Foley in charge and compounded that embarrasment with hiring Rick Spielman (I'm a Bears fan and my brother is a Fins fan, we know have terrible he is) after he booted Foley. The roster is now full of developmental types and previous draft misses.

And to top it all off, Brad Childress comes across as the most rigid coach in the game. Stubborn is an understatement. You can believe in your players to a point, but to think you can turn a roster of chicken #### at the skill positions outside of the RBs into chicken salad, he is in for a long season.

I think he is the first coach to get fired this season after they win all of four games. But Bobby Wade is his #1 WR and didn't drop a pass while wearing shorts.

I would be hard pressed to take a Vikes WR at all.

 

[Illegal Pants Downfield]

Jarrett had the game saving catch against Notre Dame in 2005...that guy has had many many many big games, big catches, big plays...and the defenses knew he was coming.

Well...defenses knew it was either going to be Jarrett or Steve Smith.Well...Jarrett or Steve Smith or Reggie Bush.

Maybe Jarrett or Steve Smith or Reggie Bush or Mike Williams.

Certainly they would only have to worry about Jarrett or Steve Smith or Reggie Bush or Mike Williams or Matt Leinart.

At the most, they'd have to worry about anyone other than Jarrett or Smith or Bush or Williams or Leinart or Lendale White...

My attempt at homage to "The Jerk" (all I need is this paddleball...) aside, this argument sucks. (caveat: I don't even know if Williams & Jarrett played at the same time, etc., so if they didn't - forgive me, but you get my point)

That's a whole boatload of players drafted in the 1st & 2nd rounds of the NFL draft over the past couple years. And to say that opposing defenses "knew Jarrett was coming and still couldn't stop him" is ridiculous. Defenses constantly had 3, 4, 5 and more top-level talents to try to defend on USC's offense. And that doesn't even mention their offensive line, etc.

In fact, even though I have no reason to care either way in a Rice vs. Jarrett argument, I think you just made a great point for why Rice is actually potentially the better talent - even as the primary (hell...maybe even the "only") weapon on the Gamecocks, he put up decent numbers. Rice was the one that defenses "knew was coming", not Jarrett.

I've read alot of your stuff over the past couple years, MOP and generally you make some pretty good points. This is not one of them. You're way off the mark with this post...

 

[Dhizz]

It's not that his Freshman year doesn't count but should we also go back to high school? Pop Warner? Two Hand Touch in the street? I tossed out the member number as most folks wading into the SP tend to not come across as a tool right away...you have saved us the time from having to discover it on our own. J/K, relax a bit, you're entertaining...but I would encourage you to not talk down to folks that have logged a lot of time in here...usually doesn't end well and you get a vacation...I'm not trying to flame a fire here so again, relax a bit. If you can't admit Rice comes with serious doubts and question marks, then we just agree to disagree...but be prepared...threads have a funny way of getting bumped in here long after the posts have been tossed around.And I compete with Bloom in Dyansty Leagues, we're SP friends at the very least and have a lot of respect for what the other posts in here....he also has a very nice site of his own that he has been developiing. I am not disrespecting him, just voicing one of those rare difference of opinions he and I have. Good luck in here.

1) Rice's freshman year wasn't 3 years ago. It was two. He only played for two years. So bringing up his freshman stats against 3-4 elite Ds, is fairly important.2) You just touted Jarrets freshman year. Against who? Jarret plays a good D 1-2 times a year. The Pac-10? Seriously? I don't want to hear about Jarrets box scores when he played with SS and had elite QBs throwing him the ball, elite o-line, running a pro style offense.3) The only thing you've said about those WRs, is just box scores. Tell me what you see in them. Routes? Catching? Blocking? Breaks? Deep ball? Over the middle? Quickness? Speed? Hands? The most you've said is "big catches". 4) Spurrier jinx? And you're hyping a USC WR? Come on. Mike Williams? Is there anything else to be said? Spurrier had over hyped players because of the monster offense they had. They'd toss up 40-50-60, and WRs/QBs would have insane production. Spurrier hasn't even sniffed that kind of system/talent at SC. Now at USC, they have more talent, better coaching, then every team they play in the PAC-10. Jarret is more likely to be a product of the system. So it's hilarious you mention the Spurrier flops, then go tout a USC WR in the Carrol era. 5) You actually talked about Ds knew Jarret was coming, and still couldn't stop him. You gotta be joking. USC has elite weapons. You can't double cover Jarret, but you can triple cover Rice, and still not be worried about anyone else beating you. It's a laughable arguement. 6) You actually used the ND game as evidence. That's hilarious. You said Rice only had 7 catches for 70 yards AGAINST FLORIDA, but man check out Jarrets game against ND! You're just not making much sense.You simply don't like Rice. You love Jarret. But your arguments for each are fluff, contain no real discussion about their physical, mental or receiving abilities, just pulling box scores and "big catches" and "the ND game". It's fine you like Jarret. And fine you don't like Rice. But to claim Rice is an awful WR, it's laughable. The fact he was drafted at 44 with only 2 years of college, pretty much says it all. The guy has talent, he would have been a top 15 pick next year by most accounts, and he has all the physical tools to be a great WR. Just go read the scouting on this guy. Rice grades out very high. Jarret was in an ideal situation, and Rice was in a bad situation. Regardless, Rice will be the best WR on the Vikings by week 8. Wade just isn't a good WR.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Some of Jarrett's numbers from last season were 11/136/2TD against Nebraska, 7/132/3TD against Nortre Dame, and 11/205/2TD against Michigan in the Rose Bowl...those are big time teams from big conferences, not Florida Atlantic and WoofWoof or whatever the poor school South Carolina scheduled last year.

You were on shaky ground already, but just lost all semblance of credibility by pulling any stats against ND into this discussion. ND's pass defense was absolutely horrific, far worse than Arkansas and some of the other teams you dismiss out of hand. Even bringing that up shows no intellectual honesty in your argument. You're just throwing out big name schools for effect.(Plus, ND isn't in a conference, big-time or otherwise)

Did they play in the Sugar Bowl? Florida Atlantic certainly didn't...neither did Woofwoof...don't act like ND isn't a powerhouse school with TV rights and whatnot...you putting me down like that MB because I used them as an example is ignorant on your part as well. I know their pass defense isn't top notch but it isn't like they don't have a roster full of blue chippers...again Florida Atlantic and Wofford, gimme a break!

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Jarrett had the game saving catch against Notre Dame in 2005...that guy has had many many many big games, big catches, big plays...and the defenses knew he was coming.

Well...defenses knew it was either going to be Jarrett or Steve Smith.Well...Jarrett or Steve Smith or Reggie Bush.

Maybe Jarrett or Steve Smith or Reggie Bush or Mike Williams.

Certainly they would only have to worry about Jarrett or Steve Smith or Reggie Bush or Mike Williams or Matt Leinart.

At the most, they'd have to worry about anyone other than Jarrett or Smith or Bush or Williams or Leinart or Lendale White...

My attempt at homage to "The Jerk" (all I need is this paddleball...) aside, this argument sucks. (caveat: I don't even know if Williams & Jarrett played at the same time, etc., so if they didn't - forgive me, but you get my point)

That's a whole boatload of players drafted in the 1st & 2nd rounds of the NFL draft over the past couple years. And to say that opposing defenses "knew Jarrett was coming and still couldn't stop him" is ridiculous. Defenses constantly had 3, 4, 5 and more top-level talents to try to defend on USC's offense. And that doesn't even mention their offensive line, etc.

In fact, even though I have no reason to care either way in a Rice vs. Jarrett argument, I think you just made a great point for why Rice is actually potentially the better talent - even as the primary (hell...maybe even the "only") weapon on the Gamecocks, he put up decent numbers. Rice was the one that defenses "knew was coming", not Jarrett.

I've read alot of your stuff over the past couple years, MOP and generally you make some pretty good points. This is not one of them. You're way off the mark with this post...

Mike WIlliams hasn't been on the team the last 2 years, and Steve Smith is a good but not great WR, hard worker. Jarrett is much more of a threat.

 

[Illegal Pants Downfield]

Jarrett had the game saving catch against Notre Dame in 2005...that guy has had many many many big games, big catches, big plays...and the defenses knew he was coming.

<snip>(caveat: I don't even know if Williams & Jarrett played at the same time, etc., so if they didn't - forgive me, but you get my point)

</snip>

Mike WIlliams hasn't been on the team the last 2 years, and Steve Smith is a good but not great WR, hard worker. Jarrett is much more of a threat.

Good selective reading, there MOP. And I think, at the college level, a guy that gets drafted in the 2nd round of the NFL draft, probably counts as a bit more than a "good but not great WR".

It's one thing to favor Jarrett over Rice. I don't think anybody's going to begrudge you that. But your reasoning is seriously just getting silly in this thread, and I'm checking out of this trip.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

Rice is so far from a finished product I can't believe he could possibly be WR#1 or #2 this year. Unless Minnesota is that shallow at WR depth, and as the title says "Wade No 1" leads me to believe anything is possible. But Rice's route running is akin to sand lot football. I am a huge SEC fan and my school is in the SEC, so I have seen his act plenty, no bias for me. He makes good adjustments to badly thrown balls, which he saw plenty of, and he has nice hands and a good knack for making some plays. That said you can rarely get away with sloppy and poor route running in the NFL unless you are a burner. Last I checked he isn't, in fact he provides very little after the catch. I expect a very non-consistent impact from Rice this season (maybe a few redzone tds), perhaps down the line, but I don't think he is even draftable in a standard 12 team 16 player league.

As for Wade being the No 1 in Minnesota. Ahcck... TJax had better be a quantum leap improved this offseason or it is going to be tough sledding for the minny passing game.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Rice is so far from a finished product I can't believe he could possibly be WR#1 or #2 this year. Unless Minnesota is that shallow at WR depth, and as the title says "Wade No 1" leads me to believe anything is possible. But Rice's route running is akin to sand lot football. I am a huge SEC fan and my school is in the SEC, so I have seen his act plenty, no bias for me. He makes good adjustments to badly thrown balls, which he saw plenty of, and he has nice hands and a good knack for making some plays. That said you can rarely get away with sloppy and poor route running in the NFL unless you are a burner. Last I checked he isn't, in fact he provides very little after the catch. I expect a very non-consistent impact from Rice this season (maybe a few redzone tds), perhaps down the line, but I don't think he is even draftable in a standard 12 team 16 player league. As for Wade being the No 1 in Minnesota. Ahcck... TJax had better be a quantum leap improved this offseason or it is going to be tough sledding for the minny passing game.

Voice of reason

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Jarrett had the game saving catch against Notre Dame in 2005...that guy has had many many many big games, big catches, big plays...and the defenses knew he was coming.

<snip>(caveat: I don't even know if Williams & Jarrett played at the same time, etc., so if they didn't - forgive me, but you get my point)

</snip>

Mike WIlliams hasn't been on the team the last 2 years, and Steve Smith is a good but not great WR, hard worker. Jarrett is much more of a threat.

Good selective reading, there MOP. And I think, at the college level, a guy that gets drafted in the 2nd round of the NFL draft, probably counts as a bit more than a "good but not great WR".

It's one thing to favor Jarrett over Rice. I don't think anybody's going to begrudge you that. But your reasoning is seriously just getting silly in this thread, and I'm checking out of this trip.

The more emoticons the worse the post usually..."A guy gets drafted in the 2nd round of the NFL counts as a bit more" ??? Yep, no one ever taken in the 1st or 2nd round of the NFL was ever a reach, complete bust, or total project...we've never seen that happen. That is as weak a debate stance as you can get. You are entitled to your opinions of the thread though. Good luck.

 

[jurb26]

Why in the world do so many care if Rice or Jarrett is better? Is Jarrett playing in Minn?

 

[Traders2001]

They havent had a QB to throw to their receivers for the last 3 years .

 

[FavreCo]

You simply don't like Rice. You love Jarret. But your arguments for each are fluff, contain no real discussion about their physical, mental or receiving abilities, just pulling box scores and "big catches" and "the ND game".

It's fine you like Jarret. And fine you don't like Rice. But to claim Rice is an awful WR, it's laughable. The fact he was drafted at 44 with only 2 years of college, pretty much says it all. The guy has talent, he would have been a top 15 pick next year by most accounts, and he has all the physical tools to be a great WR. Just go read the scouting on this guy. Rice grades out very high. Jarret was in an ideal situation, and Rice was in a bad situation.

Regardless, Rice will be the best WR on the Vikings by week 8. Wade just isn't a good WR.

Easily. He's already the best. He was when they announced his name. Their problems are:A. The don't have a QB yet, and they don't realize it either.

B. If they can't see that, how long will it take them to insert Rice and put Wade where he belongs: the bench.

Rice is far better than Jarrett. Had they both stayed 1 more year, Rice would have gone top 15. Jarrett would still fall to the 2nd. He is so slow it's painful.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

Some of Jarrett's numbers from last season were 11/136/2TD against Nebraska, 7/132/3TD against Nortre Dame, and 11/205/2TD against Michigan in the Rose Bowl...those are big time teams from big conferences, not Florida Atlantic and WoofWoof or whatever the poor school South Carolina scheduled last year.

You were on shaky ground already, but just lost all semblance of credibility by pulling any stats against ND into this discussion. ND's pass defense was absolutely horrific, far worse than Arkansas and some of the other teams you dismiss out of hand. Even bringing that up shows no intellectual honesty in your argument. You're just throwing out big name schools for effect.(Plus, ND isn't in a conference, big-time or otherwise)

Did they play in the Sugar Bowl? Florida Atlantic certainly didn't...neither did Woofwoof...don't act like ND isn't a powerhouse school with TV rights and whatnot...you putting me down like that MB because I used them as an example is ignorant on your part as well. I know their pass defense isn't top notch but it isn't like they don't have a roster full of blue chippers...again Florida Atlantic and Wofford, gimme a break!

Just because a school has tv rights deals doesn't mean it plays good defense. ND's defense has been atrocious and their success has been almost entirely due to the offensive production and scheduling. But I'm not saying they were worse than everyone SC played. Sure they were probably better on pass defense than Wofford, but not Arkasas, Florida, Clemson and other teams you've mentioned. I'm an alumnus and watched most of the games, and, money and recruits or not, ND was simply not good at all on pass defense. Similarly, just because the pac-10 is a "big time conference" that doesn't mean they've played stellar pass defense the last few years either. On the other hand, the ACC (which you seem to dismiss re: teams like Clemson) had a relatively down year, but more of the teams were better on defense than offense. I'll let others carry the torch for the fact that USoCal had many more weapons to defend, etc.

Name recognition does not equal production, especially in one isolated phase of the game. I realize you like to agitate around here with stupid arguments like this once in a while, so I'll admit: you-> <-me. but your argument still sucks.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Some of Jarrett's numbers from last season were 11/136/2TD against Nebraska, 7/132/3TD against Nortre Dame, and 11/205/2TD against Michigan in the Rose Bowl...those are big time teams from big conferences, not Florida Atlantic and WoofWoof or whatever the poor school South Carolina scheduled last year.

You were on shaky ground already, but just lost all semblance of credibility by pulling any stats against ND into this discussion. ND's pass defense was absolutely horrific, far worse than Arkansas and some of the other teams you dismiss out of hand. Even bringing that up shows no intellectual honesty in your argument. You're just throwing out big name schools for effect.(Plus, ND isn't in a conference, big-time or otherwise)

Did they play in the Sugar Bowl? Florida Atlantic certainly didn't...neither did Woofwoof...don't act like ND isn't a powerhouse school with TV rights and whatnot...you putting me down like that MB because I used them as an example is ignorant on your part as well. I know their pass defense isn't top notch but it isn't like they don't have a roster full of blue chippers...again Florida Atlantic and Wofford, gimme a break!

Just because a school has tv rights deals doesn't mean it plays good defense. ND's defense has been atrocious and their success has been almost entirely due to the offensive production and scheduling. But I'm not saying they were worse than everyone SC played. Sure they were probably better on pass defense than Wofford, but not Arkasas, Florida, Clemson and other teams you've mentioned. I'm an alumnus and watched most of the games, and, money and recruits or not, ND was simply not good at all on pass defense. Similarly, just because the pac-10 is a "big time conference" that doesn't mean they've played stellar pass defense the last few years either. On the other hand, the ACC (which you seem to dismiss re: teams like Clemson) had a relatively down year, but more of the teams were better on defense than offense. I'll let others carry the torch for the fact that USoCal had many more weapons to defend, etc.

Name recognition does not equal production, especially in one isolated phase of the game. I realize you like to agitate around here with stupid arguments like this once in a while, so I'll admit: you-> <-me. but your argument still sucks.

Brett Favre was the QB for Southern Miss in the early 90s...who did he march in and beat while at Southern Miss? The correct answer is Florida State. Why does that matter? FSU was perhaps only 2nd to Miami as the premier college football program. To me, it matters when guys go up against big schools and come away with big games. I am working on a new RB article, not sure exactly when I will have it finished but the majority of guys that do extremely well in the NFL come from big time college programs, not FAU, Wofford, and the like. They come from Texas, Tennessee, Miami, or big time conferences...of course there are exceptions. I just didn't see where Rice put up anything special against the top programs and even the mediocre programs in the SEC last year. You and a few others can say I am fishing but I'm not...I just am calling it like I see it, sorry we don't see eye to eye on this. And the thread is about Bobby Wade as the No.1 WR in Minnesota...how about we could all agree that the WR1 in Minnesota probably ranks about No.32 or dead last for desirability of all WR1 spots in the NFL. SOme may still disagree even with that statement.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

And the thread is about Bobby Wade as the No.1 WR in Minnesota...how about we could all agree that the WR1 in Minnesota probably ranks about No.32 or dead last for desirability of all WR1 spots in the NFL. SOme may still disagree even with that statement.

I might take Wade ahead of any Titan and possibly any Jaguar or Falcon receiver. What a trainwreck those four corps are.

 

[Dhizz]

FBG rookie rankings

#4 WR Sidney Rice, MIN

 

[pizzatyme]

And the thread is about Bobby Wade as the No.1 WR in Minnesota...how about we could all agree that the WR1 in Minnesota probably ranks about No.32 or dead last for desirability of all WR1 spots in the NFL. SOme may still disagree even with that statement.

I might take Wade ahead of any Titan and possibly any Jaguar or Falcon receiver. What a trainwreck those four corps are.

While this may be true, Wade is still no better than #32 as there are several #2 WRs on other teams that would go ahead of him, any Titans, Falcons, or Jags WRs.

 

[cstu]

Williamson is the player to have. DB's can't cover him. The kid is fast and can get open.He just can't catch the ball.But he's been working in the offseason to correct that. Eye doctors at Nike headquarters to help try to help his vision.Hopefully his confidence is not shattered, his concentration skills improve, and the Vike's try to work more quick slants and/or screens to try to utilize his speed.If Bobby Wade stays the #1 WR in Minny, it's going to be a long season.

By all accounts, Williamson had a outright horrible season last year. Despite that, he still had more receptions than Wade and only had 6 less yards and 2 fewer TD's. Wade is in his 6th season and Williamson his 3rd, so if I'm going to guess which one becomes the #1 this year I'm going to go with Williamson. Rice is the wild card here, but I think at the very least he'll beat out Wade for a starting job during the season. The passing game will suck regardless and I don't expect any Vikings WR to break 700 yards.To think Wade will have a "career year" (50 catches, 500 yards) on this team is far-fetched IMO. If you're going to own a Vikings WR then get one with some upside.

 

[Lash]

But I wouldn't be so quick to say TJax sucks. He did as well in his limited duty as Vince Young

[giggle]hehehheeehehehe [/giggling]

Williamson will probably be grouped with Terrell, Rogers, etc until he lives up to his original lottery draft billing.

[voice=Butthead] huuhhuhhhuh, he said 'lottery'[/voice]

 

[Biabreakable]

Vikings' Williamson tries to rebuild trust

Print this | E-mail this | Comments on this article: 0

Posted: July 28, 2007

Associated Press

MANKATO, Minn. -- The first ball thrown to Troy Williamson on the first live drill of Minnesota's training camp this week traveled right through his hands.

Sarcastic laughs and comments burst from the bleachers, providing an audible reminder of the challenge Williamson has this season, trying to recreate a trust from Vikings fans and teammates that, yes, he actually can catch.

"The only thing I've got to tell them is pretty much just watch the games. I'm pretty sure they'll do that anyway," Williamson said. "We'll see, and everything else is going to pan out, because I worked too hard during the offseason not to have a good year."

Terrell Owens led the NFL last season with 17 dropped passes, according to sports researcher Stats, Inc. Williamson was tied for second place with 11 drops.

He sure doesn't sound worried. In fact, the very next pass after the drop on that first day came to him. That one he caught, along with several others in tight coverage over the balance of practice.

This is exactly what coach Brad Childress and others close to the 24-year-old have been expecting, even if it will probably take a half-dozen touchdowns and a whole bunch of long gains on Sundays this fall for anyone outside the Vikings locker room to lose that skepticism.

"The guy has improved, and I can't wait for it to manifest itself on the football field," said Childress, who has been effusive in his praise of Williamson's offseason work habits.

Now in his third year after Minnesota traded Randy Moss to Oakland and used the seventh overall draft pick to take him out of South Carolina, Williamson estimated he has caught almost 20,000 balls since that miserable 2006 season ended. He spent hours and hours at Minnesota's practice facility and even used a machine to feed him passes at home.

"He would be the first one to tell you that it was rock bottom last year, but you can either stay and wallow around it or you can pick yourself up and work to get better, and he decided to do the latter," Childress said.

Getting married in February helped improve Williamson's outlook, too, but it was multiple visits he made to Nike headquarters in Oregon at the coach's suggestion that really boosted his confidence.

There, he worked with sports vision specialists to identify a problem with his eyes, which are 20-20 but with imbalanced strength. That can cause difficulty focusing on a football speeding through the air past all sorts of different colors. Williamson was prescribed exercises for his eyes, which he has performed as ardently as all those thousands of receiving drills. Pleased by his experience, the team even hosted a team of Nike specialists in the spring for vision tests of about 60 players.

Former Vikings receiver Jake Reed overcame some problems with his sight in the 1990s and eventually had four consecutive 1,000-yard seasons. Williamson has a long way to go before approaching that, though.

Through two seasons, he has only 827 yards and two touchdowns -- and none last year. With the untested Tarvaris Jackson destined to be the starting quarterback and the similarly unproven Bobby Wade as the other receiver on top of Minnesota's depth chart, Williamson won't have anywhere to hide. He's being heavily counted on to help open up a passing game that was lifeless last season while the Vikings went 6-10.

"Troy's done so much work this offseason to get himself mentally and physically ready, so I'm excited to see the player he'll become this year," said Wade, who has only two NFL touchdowns himself over four seasons with Chicago and Tennessee.

There was that word again: work. Dedication is an important component of professional success, but it doesn't equal production. That's where Williamson must make strides and pull his statistics closer to his incredible speed if he is to be remembered for anything but all those drops.

Often reclusive in his first and second years, Williamson displayed a side of him that was confident, engaging and even boastful when a group of reporters asked him about his status among the fastest players in the league.

I'm No. 1. You decide who No. 2 is," Williamson said.

It won't matter, of course, unless he can hang on to the ball.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=246976

 

[FunkyPlutos]

Hopefully Wade becomes a stud...caught an autographed ball the he threw into the crowd after practice on opening day of training camp!!

 

[In The Zone]

I'm mostly a lurker but this argument has compelled me to post a reply. I have seen every play of Rice's college career and a couple of his HS games(Gaffney) and I can tell you the he is far from a fraud. This guy has serious skills and IMO was a steal of a draft pick by Minnesota. I'm not gonna repeat everything already said in this thread about defenses, covered by 2,3, and 5 guys, surrounding talent because to me it's obvious. What I will add is this. Some speak of the Spurrier Jinx and I just laugh. Rice was actually a Lou Holtz recruit and he dominated his RS freshman year in a system which he has never played in before.

I do think however that he, along with Williamson both left college at least a year early. If Troy would have stayed 1 more season @ Carolina then Rice probably would have had his breakout year last season and would probably still be a Gamecock today.

Also, Rice smashed a few of Sterling Sharpe's records while only playing 2 seasons at Carolina. That should tell you something right there.

I agree with what someone else said that Rice doesn't have big time speed but if/when he bulks up some and with some NFL experience he will learn to run crisper routes and use his body to shield defenders. His body control while going after the ball is awesome and he doesn't drop many balls.

One more thing. What big time talent did TO, Jerry Rice and a few others face in thier college days? Something to mull over a bit.

Oh yea, on a side note you should see this guy on the B-ball court. Unbelievable.

 

[The Hank]

Picked him up in the 15th round in a 16 team league. Both Williamson and Rice went before him, heard Wade was the #1 from FBG, thought why the heck not picked him up.

I was just wondering whats the latest from camp MINNY homers?

 

[strong]

Any word from Minny homers on the shake down of the starting receivers?

I'm still intrigued by Rice and his playing time...

 

[The Hank]

Any word from Minny homers on the shake down of the starting receivers? I'm still intrigued by Rice and his playing time...

 

[cobalt_27]

At any rate, to answer your question, I would rank these QB's below him:Jason CampbellJake DelhommeByron LeftwichMatt SchaubTrent Green (If he doesn't end up starting for MIA then insert Cleo Lemon's name here)Chris SimmsBrodie CroyleFrye/QuinnMcCown/RussellThat would put him at #23.

WTF are you smoking?I have a permanent spot open in any league for you. That's a lifetime pass just for you.

 

[Mr. Peterson]

At any rate, to answer your question, I would rank these QB's below him:Jason CampbellJake DelhommeByron LeftwichMatt SchaubTrent Green (If he doesn't end up starting for MIA then insert Cleo Lemon's name here)Chris SimmsBrodie CroyleFrye/QuinnMcCown/RussellThat would put him at #23.

WTF are you smoking?I have a permanent spot open in any league for you. That's a lifetime pass just for you.

Has to be the worst line in the FBG forums.....

 

[teamroc]

It's not that his Freshman year doesn't count but should we also go back to high school? Pop Warner? Two Hand Touch in the street? I tossed out the member number as most folks wading into the SP tend to not come across as a tool right away...you have saved us the time from having to discover it on our own. J/K, relax a bit, you're entertaining...but I would encourage you to not talk down to folks that have logged a lot of time in here...usually doesn't end well and you get a vacation...I'm not trying to flame a fire here so again, relax a bit. If you can't admit Rice comes with serious doubts and question marks, then we just agree to disagree...but be prepared...threads have a funny way of getting bumped in here long after the posts have been tossed around.And I compete with Bloom in Dyansty Leagues, we're SP friends at the very least and have a lot of respect for what the other posts in here....he also has a very nice site of his own that he has been developiing. I am not disrespecting him, just voicing one of those rare difference of opinions he and I have. Good luck in here.

Funny way of getting bumped?S. Rice 6 catches for 75 yards and 1 TD.How's Jarret looking? How's that article on looking at box scores of ranked teams?Rice is already the best WR the Vikings have. And the guy is 21 years old. Get ready for a Santonio Holmes type finish to his rookie year.In dynasty leagues, get Rice NOW.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

It's not that his Freshman year doesn't count but should we also go back to high school? Pop Warner? Two Hand Touch in the street? I tossed out the member number as most folks wading into the SP tend to not come across as a tool right away...you have saved us the time from having to discover it on our own. J/K, relax a bit, you're entertaining...but I would encourage you to not talk down to folks that have logged a lot of time in here...usually doesn't end well and you get a vacation...I'm not trying to flame a fire here so again, relax a bit. If you can't admit Rice comes with serious doubts and question marks, then we just agree to disagree...but be prepared...threads have a funny way of getting bumped in here long after the posts have been tossed around.And I compete with Bloom in Dyansty Leagues, we're SP friends at the very least and have a lot of respect for what the other posts in here....he also has a very nice site of his own that he has been developiing. I am not disrespecting him, just voicing one of those rare difference of opinions he and I have. Good luck in here.

Funny way of getting bumped?S. Rice 6 catches for 75 yards and 1 TD.How's Jarret looking? How's that article on looking at box scores of ranked teams?Rice is already the best WR the Vikings have. And the guy is 21 years old. Get ready for a Santonio Holmes type finish to his rookie year.In dynasty leagues, get Rice NOW.

He had a garbage TD when GB was up 23-9, The Vikes passing game is a joke, you want to get fired up over it, go ahead. I think Dwayne Bowe is showing some serious skills in KC.BTW: Don't be shy, I post a weekly QB and RB thread, I don't think the SHark Pool would ever accuse me of ducking so please make sure and visit in on those threads and banter with us.

 

[teamroc]

He had a garbage TD when GB was up 23-9, The Vikes passing game is a joke, you want to get fired up over it, go ahead. I think Dwayne Bowe is showing some serious skills in KC.BTW: Don't be shy, I post a weekly QB and RB thread, I don't think the SHark Pool would ever accuse me of ducking so please make sure and visit in on those threads and banter with us.

Bowe? Who even mentioned him? You were pimping Jarret before the season, and saying Rice had "serious issues". Seems Rice is killing Jarret. Who said you were ducking?You looked at some SC box scores, figured out Rice sucks, then chose to share that opinion. You were clearly wrong then, and it's only gotten worse.I love how Rice's career downside is the Viking pass attack, but Bowe/Jarret, way to pick the powerhouse pass attacks. Carr and Huard! Lovely.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

What I really liked about Rice was how he went up and got the ball aggressively. Even more impressive was, after catching his first career TD pass, he just looks ticked off and throws the ball down - doesn't celebrate or run the ball to the souvenir bin - just runs to the sideline and gets on the hands team for the onside kick. That is a sign of someone taking his job seriously (especially being only 21 years old). The kid has a bright future - I think we see plenty more jump balls the rest of the season.

 

[Righetti]

[He had a garbage TD when GB was up 23-9,

did you see the play? I only saw the highlights but from what I saw he had some fantastic body control, great leaping ability and although I did not watch the game it was a big play as it was the only chance they had to get back into that game.calling it "garbage TD" because it came late in a game does not take away from the catch..

 

[Righetti]

What I really liked about Rice was how he went up and got the ball aggressively. Even more impressive was, after catching his first career TD pass, he just looks ticked off and throws the ball down - doesn't celebrate or run the ball to the souvenir bin - just runs to the sideline and gets on the hands team for the onside kick. That is a sign of someone taking his job seriously (especially being only 21 years old). The kid has a bright future - I think we see plenty more jump balls the rest of the season.

we need a :greatpost: smilie

 

[Illegal Pants Downfield]

calling it "garbage TD" because it came late in a game does not take away from the catch..

That was a helluva grab by Rice, regardless of what the game clock/scoreboard said...

 

[zamboni]

Too bad the QB situation is so poor, as I'd like to see what this kid could do with a viable passing game. In any event, I'm going to take a flier on him - sometimes you never know.

 

[OCC]

He had a garbage TD when GB was up 23-9, The Vikes passing game is a joke, you want to get fired up over it, go ahead. I think Dwayne Bowe is showing some serious skills in KC.

BTW: Don't be shy, I post a weekly QB and RB thread, I don't think the SHark Pool would ever accuse me of ducking so please make sure and visit in on those threads and banter with us.

Bloom posted this today -Rice easily could have had Bowe's numbers from last week, if not better. Go get this guy right now if he's on waivers in your redraft league:

1) His body control in the red zone is just as sick as it was at south carolina, i expect him to be the first second and third option inside the 20.

2) Childress seems to have installed a "go deep 5-10 times a game" vertical offense, and Tarvaris has the arm to make it work. Rice will get most of those targets, and he showed last week that he can get behind the defense. Holcomb horribly overthrew him early on what should have been a long TD.

3) Rice was the main target on the attempted game tying drive.

Rice turned 21 right before the season started. He's nowhere close to mature physically or mentally as a WR, yet its already pretty clear that this guy is going to be a star.