Booting a fired co-worker from a league (mid-season, didnt pay) (1 Viewer)

[TLEF316]

So I'm in a semi-competitive work league. Nothing crazy ($100 buy in, mix of people that are serious, semi-serious and some that are just in it for the banter) but its fun. I dont actually work in the department anymore but I (along with a few other people that used to) still play in the league.

On Wednesday, one of the members of the league was fired from the company. Apparently this person was on thin ice for a while and they finally decided to let them go. The team was 8-0 going into this week (mostly thanks to Mahomes,  4th in points. The rest of their team really isn't anything special)

On Sunday morning, the owner went to set up their team, only to find that the commissioner had locked them out of the league.  His reasoning was that "having them still in it creates an awkward situation".   Plus, it turns out that they hadn't paid their entry fee (not uncommon in this league. Usually the non-money winners end up paying at the end. A big pet peeve of mine, btw. I paid at the draft)

Normally, I would say that locking them out of a league was a HUGE **** move. You're basically taking away the chance at a decent payday for someone that you just fired (commish wasn't this person's direct manager, but probably had some input in the firing) But when you consider that they didnt pay, I feel like its MAYBE justified..

 My thoughts are just to have them somehow pay via pay-pal or Venmo now (to avoid the awkward situation of having to meet with them to pay) and just let them finish out the year. If they dont want to do that, then the commish (whose team is in last) should just run it for the rest of the year (with the prize money going towards an end of the year bar tab or something if they win) 

Thoughts?

 

[shadyridr]

total **** move

 

[Caesar]

total **** move

/thread.

 

[shoecrew22]

Commish is an #######. So is everyone else if you let it happen.

Take your L and move on.

 

[brun]

Don't think his team's record should make a difference, nor his employment status.

Personally,  I would actively recruit replacements for any owners who haven't paid by the due date. However it sounds like your league is very loose on requiring payment. So I don't think that reasoning can be applied either.

So, it's just because the commissioner thinks it's awkward? Yes, a #### move that makes it more awkward. Commissioner is weird.

 

[Doug B]

However it sounds like your league is very loose on requiring payment. So I don't think that reasoning can be applied either.

Very important to note, because some leagues are very strict on this point and some leagues are not. People will come into this thread and harp on "didn't pay" ... but in this particular case, the "didn't pay" thing has no weight at all because it was never a hard requirement in the OP's league.

 

[Go DC Yourself]

Commish is an #######. So is everyone else if you let it happen.

Take your L and move on.

Perhaps the Commish needs to be informed that others who haven't paid won't until locked out fired guy is reinstated if he pays promptly.

 

[TLEF316]

Very important to note, because some leagues are very strict on this point and some leagues are not. People will come into this thread and harp on "didn't pay" ... but in this particular case, the "didn't pay" thing has no weight at all because it was never a hard requirement in the OP's league.

Yeah the league is not at all strict about this. So for that reason, I'd agree that it really shouldn't hold any weight. 

 

[iamkoza]

so what is the commish's plan for managing the team? very shortsighted. should have let the guy finish the season. there is no good way to run a league owned team (ask david stern)

i ran in to this exact situation in a work league during the inaugural season. guy got fired midway through. luckily it was only a $20 entry fee and was a very casual league the first year because the guy never paid.

i learned my lesson and the next year required payment before the draft.  Actually this year had a original league member (11 years) turn in his 2 weeks on the day of the draft. he didnt tell anyone prior to the draft. but since he paid he's been an active league member this year, but this will likely be his last year.

 

[zftcg]

On top of all that, the dude just lost his job. Way to kick him when he's down.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

total **** move

 

[Devil_Dog]

**** move...let the guy pay and continue to play, at least for the rest of the season.  

 

[Birdie048]

If the league does not require payment before the draft/start of season, there should be no grounds to lock him out... regardless of his employment situation.  My league was/is in a similar situation (I am commish) and we lost 3 of 12 owners to termination last year.  Only 1 left by his choice, primarily due to his relocation (from local NC to AZ).  We require $ before trades are allowed or owner to participate in draft.  Owners are notified of replacements will be found if no $ received 3 days before draft.  

The "uncomfortableness" the commish is claiming is his own issue and should not impact another owners ability to participate.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

total **** move

+1

seems petty, vindictive and childish to boot. 

Let the man play. If he’s paid his dues in the past there’s no reason to assume he wouldn’t this year, and even if he’s new to the league you said some team managers pay at the end and that’s allowed. That’s just reaching for an excuse to screw the dude. 

What a completely crappy thing to do to someone - spitting in their face after they’ve been fired is adding insult to injury and straight cheating them out of a chance to win.

tbe lack of integrity by the commish on display here is truly staggering. 

If this dude was on thin ice and the petty AF commish was so gutless to not be able to handle having him in the league after firing him, he shouldn’t have been invited back this year. 

But he was. So that commish is a gutless tool and this is indeed a total **** move. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

On top of all that, the dude just lost his job. Way to kick him when he's down.

This exactly. 

 

[fightingillini]

total **** move

Agree

 

[zftcg]

This exactly. 

When I first posted that, I was thinking in terms of taking away an activity that he presumably enjoys. But one more aspect: Someone who has just been fired has potentially had their financial situation thrown into disarray. Honestly, if I were in the league I might even consider taking up a collection among other owners to pay the dude's fee as a gesture of goodwill.

Now, maybe the guy was a doosh who no one liked and he got fired for taking a dump on his boss' desk or something. Fine. But they should still have a little empathy. The fact that the commish is in management makes it even worse.

 

[top dog]

I would not be in that league next year if I were you.  Total tool move.  

 

[Lehigh98]

Thoughts?

I think that's terrible, did someone go over to his house and kick his dog too?

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

There has to be some form of discipline. To the commissioner, I mean. Totally inappropriate move.

Commissioner should be voted out of his position (not the league) and someone else should take over. At the very least, someone should bring it up for a vote. Even if he wins the vote, it's an embarrassment and a sign that such behavior is seen as unacceptable by many in the league. 

Call to vote this week and explain why. If you're the only one who feels this way, go radio silent, finish out the year and leave the league. 

 

[need2know]

Find a way to put that guy back in the league

 

[Gally]

Being that the commish is in management he may not have had a say in freezing this guy out.  There are implications tied to the company if this is a work league and there are different levels of people participating in the league.  This could have been mandated if this was not a cordial transaction of letting this guy go and the company may want to limit his contact with other workers.

I am not saying it was the right thing to do but having it be a work league with management involved could lead to other layers that just letting the guy continue in the league.  This was a firing and not someone quitting on good terms.  There may be animosity that the company is trying to avoid. 

Still a crap move and the guy should be allowed to finish out the season but I know some companies that get overly worried about lawsuits etc with people getting fired. 

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

Everyone else in the league that has not paid should also be kicked out.  That'll show 'em.

 

[TLEF316]

Being that the commish is in management he may not have had a say in freezing this guy out.  There are implications tied to the company if this is a work league and there are different levels of people participating in the league.  This could have been mandated if this was not a cordial transaction of letting this guy go and the company may want to limit his contact with other workers.

I am not saying it was the right thing to do but having it be a work league with management involved could lead to other layers that just letting the guy continue in the league.  This was a firing and not someone quitting on good terms.  There may be animosity that the company is trying to avoid. 

Still a crap move and the guy should be allowed to finish out the season but I know some companies that get overly worried about lawsuits etc with people getting fired. 

Per the commish this is pretty much the exact situation. Contact with league members (which vary significantly in terms of their position with the company. We're talking sr. Vps down to basically entry level people) was the main reason for the move. The lack of payment just made it an easier decision.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

There has to be some form of discipline. To the commissioner, I mean. Totally inappropriate move.

Commissioner should be voted out of his position (not the league) and someone else should take over. At the very least, someone should bring it up for a vote. Even if he wins the vote, it's an embarrassment and a sign that such behavior is seen as unacceptable by many in the league. 

Call to vote this week and explain why. If you're the only one who feels this way, go radio silent, finish out the year and leave the league. 

Remember: commish is likely a peer/manager/person of influence over the rest of the league members too. 

Which makes it even more douchey that he’s commish. 

 

[everydayj]

/thread.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Per the commish this is pretty much the exact situation. Contact with league members (which vary significantly in terms of their position with the company. We're talking sr. Vps down to basically entry level people) was the main reason for the move. The lack of payment just made it an easier decision.

That’s a terrible reason. 

Who cares if he got fired & can have contact through the league.

sounds more like booting the 8-0 team because they didn’t want to lose to an ex-employee to me. 

There’s zero valid excuse here. 

Wait - are you the commish? Because it’s starting to sound like you’re defending the move.  

 

[everydayj]

total **** move

 

[Gally]

That’s a terrible reason. 

Who cares if he got fired & can have contact through the league.

sounds more like booting the 8-0 team because they didn’t want to lose to an ex-employee to me. 

There’s zero valid excuse here. 

I guess you haven't been around corporations before.  The bean counters/lawyers are very freaked anytime you fire someone.  There are lots of procedures needed to ensure the fired employee doesn't have contact with current employees or other interactions (a company fantasy league for instance) especially if this was not a cordial parting of the ways.  If the fired employee is not happy and has issues there are possible lawsuits etc that need to be protected against.

I am not saying this is the right thing to do.  I am saying that the corporate lawyers/accountants/management really don't care about a fantasy football league and probably don't have any idea that the guy is 8-0.  It is very unfortunate but I am far from surprised that management is going this route.  Add in that there is money involved and if the commish tries to collect from a just fired employee I am sure there could be ramifications that could be problematic. 

 

[habsfan]

Being that the commish is in management he may not have had a say in freezing this guy out.  There are implications tied to the company if this is a work league and there are different levels of people participating in the league.  This could have been mandated if this was not a cordial transaction of letting this guy go and the company may want to limit his contact with other workers.

I am not saying it was the right thing to do but having it be a work league with management involved could lead to other layers that just letting the guy continue in the league.  This was a firing and not someone quitting on good terms.  There may be animosity that the company is trying to avoid. 

Still a crap move and the guy should be allowed to finish out the season but I know some companies that get overly worried about lawsuits etc with people getting fired. 

These are valid concerns/risks but they all existed prior to this person being fired. Maybe this office shouldn't have a league at all? Unless there is a "You're immediately out of the league if you leave the company" rule, you basically have a commish making decisions by the seat of his/her pants...

 

[Deamon]

Very tricky situation.  My first reaction was that it was a brutal move and shouldn't have been done.  That is still likely the case, but I can see where having him in could be a potential issue.

1.  Maybe you shouldn't assume, but I'm going to assume that the guy isn't going to pay if he doesn't win the league.  You really think he's going to etransfer his old manager $100 once he loses the league of a company that just fired him?  That payment is likely gone.

2.  We don't know the context of the league.  What if there's some work chat going on in the chat room or message board?  What if it's a trash talk league and someone lets a "your team sucks worse than John did at his job!" comment slip and he legally uses that against them? 

Maybe there's a solution here? 

Make a post that everyone has to pay by next week or they will be locked out of the league.  That way he has to pay.  (Even though collecting payment could be weird and there would be contact with said manager/commish).

Also, lock him off the message board/league chat, or simply disable it.  Have a chat with the others in the league to watch what they say in there too.

I'd try these two things before kicking him out because that just seems ruthless to boot an 8-0 team out.  Definitely an awkward situation though.

 

[Gally]

These are valid concerns/risks but they all existed prior to this person being fired. Maybe this office shouldn't have a league at all? Unless there is a "You're immediately out of the league if you leave the company" rule, you basically have a commish making decisions by the seat of his/her pants...

It becomes a different concern when there is someone that was just fired participating.  The concern is a retaliation/lawsuit situation from someone being fired.  It has nothing specifically to do with the fantasy league and having various levels of management involved with the league.  Once you fired the person the company now shifts to block that employee from company access in fear of retaliation.  Add in that he owes money and that is another item that could be used in lawsuits (I know that sounds dumb but people love to sue these days). 

It is somewhat surprising that this is a company sanctioned league.  At my old company we have had a league in play since 1997.  However, it is not company sanctioned and it completed outside of work.  We have had management inquire about the league but since it is done outside of work they couldn't do anything to prevent it.  They just didn't want it company sanctioned. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Question. I think these kinds of threads can be helpful and interesting. But they are the commissioner equivalent of "who should I start?". 

What do you guys think about allowing commissioners to use the Shark Pool for a "Here's what happened in my league - what do you guys think we should do?" type questions?

Edit - added a poll question here https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/772100-commisssioner-what-would-you-do-questions-in-the-shark-pool/

 

[habsfan]

Question. I think these kinds of threads can be helpful and interesting. But they are the commissioner equivalent of "who should I start?". 

What do you guys think about allowing commissioners to use the Shark Pool for a "Here's what happened in my league - what do you guys think we should do?" type questions?

An assistant manager sub-forum?

As a commish I enjoy these questions / issues but not sure they belong here.

 

[Gally]

Question. I think these kinds of threads can be helpful and interesting. But they are the commissioner equivalent of "who should I start?". 

What do you guys think about allowing commissioners to use the Shark Pool for a "Here's what happened in my league - what do you guys think we should do?" type questions?

Maybe have a "Commish Corner" forum or subforum. 

 

[Tommy Collins]

Sounds like the 8-0 record had a lot to do with it.

Otherwise, if others don't pay, why is it a problem for this guy? How would it be awkward if he got fired? They don't have to see the guy in person anymore, since when did Social media/text/chat get "awkward" just because people don't work together? Does your league consistently talk about work-related things (if so, why tf?)?  Were there any warnings about this (ala "if you don't pay this week I'm locking you out")? Just seems a bit harsh for a league lenient on payment to stick it to a guy who happens to be undefeated. When does the Commish play this guy? 

 

[habsfan]

It becomes a different concern when there is someone that was just fired participating.  The concern is a retaliation/lawsuit situation from someone being fired.  It has nothing specifically to do with the fantasy league and having various levels of management involved with the league.  Once you fired the person the company now shifts to block that employee from company access in fear of retaliation.  Add in that he owes money and that is another item that could be used in lawsuits (I know that sounds dumb but people love to sue these days). 

It is somewhat surprising that this is a company sanctioned league.  At my old company we have had a league in play since 1997.  However, it is not company sanctioned and it completed outside of work.  We have had management inquire about the league but since it is done outside of work they couldn't do anything to prevent it.  They just didn't want it company sanctioned. 

My point was that employees being in a work league and leaving the company (regardless of terms/circumstances) is a standing / ongoing risk. In a decent-sized company, it's not some wacky confluence of events that no one could ever anticipate. If you live in England you should own an umbrella. If you run a work league you should know how you're going to manage this sort of thing.

 

[TLEF316]

That’s a terrible reason. 

Who cares if he got fired & can have contact through the league.

sounds more like booting the 8-0 team because they didn’t want to lose to an ex-employee to me. 

There’s zero valid excuse here. 

Wait - are you the commish? Because it’s starting to sound like you’re defending the move.  

No, not the commish.

 

[Gally]

My point was that employees being in a work league and leaving the company (regardless of terms/circumstances) is a standing / ongoing risk. In a decent-sized company, it's not some wacky confluence of events that no one could ever anticipate. If you live in England you should own an umbrella. If you run a work league you should know how you're going to manage this sort of thing.

Big difference between someone leaving on their own accord under good circumstances and someone being fired who could go after the company if a wrongful termination lawsuit. 

Yes there is an ongoing risk of this happening but the company seems to be stepping in and telling the commish what to do.  For the company this little fantasy league is meaningless and they don't really care about the guy they just fired and his team.  They also likely don't care about anybody else in the league having an opinion on the matter.  They are trying to protect their assets from an employee that was terminated (possibly on bad terms). 

Now if the commish is just doing this on his own accord because the guy isn't with the company anymore and the parting was as cordial as a firing could be with the guy wanting to maintain his participation then there might be some justification to push back.  But if the company lawyer said, you must remove the fired individual from the company sanctioned league then there really isn't anything else that can be done. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I guess you haven't been around corporations before.  The bean counters/lawyers are very freaked anytime you fire someone.  There are lots of procedures needed to ensure the fired employee doesn't have contact with current employees or other interactions (a company fantasy league for instance) especially if this was not a cordial parting of the ways.  If the fired employee is not happy and has issues there are possible lawsuits etc that need to be protected against.

I am not saying this is the right thing to do.  I am saying that the corporate lawyers/accountants/management really don't care about a fantasy football league and probably don't have any idea that the guy is 8-0.  It is very unfortunate but I am far from surprised that management is going this route.  Add in that there is money involved and if the commish tries to collect from a just fired employee I am sure there could be ramifications that could be problematic. 

I worked in healthcare for 12 years. I’m extremely familiar with how highly regulated corporations run.

In that environment it would be considered grossly irresponsible for SVPs & senior managers to play in a fantasy football league for money with subordinates.

so the entire league is an ethical cluster#### of epic proportions, if you’re gonna analyze that aspect.

But since the league exists already, they should avoid further disaster by just letting it play out. 

Because now this ex-employee might have a pretty good case for a hostile work environment based on retaliation. “I got bad reviews from my boss because I was beating his boss in a fantasy football”. 

Booting him from the league creates substantial exposure for this company, IMO. 

That’s if we’re gonna look at this from the corporate standpoint. 

In general it’s just a #### move by the commish. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Question. I think these kinds of threads can be helpful and interesting. But they are the commissioner equivalent of "who should I start?". 

What do you guys think about allowing commissioners to use the Shark Pool for a "Here's what happened in my league - what do you guys think we should do?" type questions?

Edit - added a poll question here https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/772100-commisssioner-what-would-you-do-questions-in-the-shark-pool/

A “commish questions” sub-forum of the assistant coach forum would be an excellent place for these. 

I think they add value to those of us who commission leagues, but I agree they don’t belong in this forum. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Big difference between someone leaving on their own accord under good circumstances and someone being fired who could go after the company if a wrongful termination lawsuit. 

Yes there is an ongoing risk of this happening but the company seems to be stepping in and telling the commish what to do.  For the company this little fantasy league is meaningless and they don't really care about the guy they just fired and his team.  They also likely don't care about anybody else in the league having an opinion on the matter.  They are trying to protect their assets from an employee that was terminated (possibly on bad terms). 

Now if the commish is just doing this on his own accord because the guy isn't with the company anymore and the parting was as cordial as a firing could be with the guy wanting to maintain his participation then there might be some justification to push back.  But if the company lawyer said, you must remove the fired individual from the company sanctioned league then there really isn't anything else that can be done. 

lol - I replied without seeing your post. We said almost the exact same thing.  

 

[runner06]

Question. I think these kinds of threads can be helpful and interesting. But they are the commissioner equivalent of "who should I start?". 

What do you guys think about allowing commissioners to use the Shark Pool for a "Here's what happened in my league - what do you guys think we should do?" type questions?

Edit - added a poll question here https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/772100-commisssioner-what-would-you-do-questions-in-the-shark-pool/

95% of the commissioner questions probably should be posted in a separate forum, but this particular one is probably the most interesting one I've ever seen on this forum.

 

[Devil_Dog]

I guess you haven't been around corporations before.  The bean counters/lawyers are very freaked anytime you fire someone.  There are lots of procedures needed to ensure the fired employee doesn't have contact with current employees or other interactions (a company fantasy league for instance) especially if this was not a cordial parting of the ways.  If the fired employee is not happy and has issues there are possible lawsuits etc that need to be protected against.

I am not saying this is the right thing to do.  I am saying that the corporate lawyers/accountants/management really don't care about a fantasy football league and probably don't have any idea that the guy is 8-0.  It is very unfortunate but I am far from surprised that management is going this route.  Add in that there is money involved and if the commish tries to collect from a just fired employee I am sure there could be ramifications that could be problematic. 

I've worked in corporate america my whole life (almost 30 yrs) and I've never experienced what you are describing.  People get fired all the time and there's never any procedures or guidelines limiting interactions with that person.  What we do on our own time is our business.  I think it goes without saying that I can't discuss work related topics with that person but have never been told to (or suggested to) limit my interactions.  

 

[[scooter]]

Would the Commish have locked his team if he was 0-8?

Real D move.

 

[JoeSteeler]

If the league does not require payment before the draft/start of season, there should be no grounds to lock him out.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Would the Commish have locked his team if he was 0-8?

Real D move.

That’s what I’m wondering. 

He specifically called that out, which really raises that question. 

Maybe he got fired for beating his boss. If I were him, that’s probably what I’d be telling an employment attorney right about now. 

 

[Gally]

I've worked in corporate america my whole life (almost 30 yrs) and I've never experienced what you are describing.  People get fired all the time and there's never any procedures or guidelines limiting interactions with that person.  What we do on our own time is our business.  I think it goes without saying that I can't discuss work related topics with that person but have never been told to (or suggested to) limit my interactions.  

Difference here is it appears to be a company sanctioned league.  Not a non-company league that has many company members done after work hours.  If the company sanctioned the league then it would be no different than the company message board that a fired employee would be removed from because he no longer works there.  Nowhere has been said how the firing was taken.  There may have been a really messy transaction and the company doesn't want to have any ties to the ex-employee.

We had a guy get fired and he locked himself in the break room and went on the PA system bad mouthing individuals and leadership.  He then also sent off emails from his company phone before they disabled his account.  There are messy firings that can come back to rear their heads especially in larger companies with deep pockets.  We were told to not communicate in anyway with said individual.  It happens. 

I agree it wasn't a good move and shouldn't be done.  I am just giving possible reasons why the Commish was forced to remove the guy.  If that is not the case and the guy just booted him from the league it is a terrible move. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Difference here is it appears to be a company sanctioned league.  Not a non-company league that has many company members done after work hours.  If the company sanctioned the league then it would be no different than the company message board that a fired employee would be removed from because he no longer works there. 

What company would sanction a gambling event? Seems unlikely at best that this was an official company sanctioned league. 

We had a guy get fired and he locked himself in the break room and went on the PA system bad mouthing individuals and leadership.  He then also sent off emails from his company phone before they disabled his account.  There are messy firings that can come back to rear their heads especially in larger companies with deep pockets.  We were told to not communicate in anyway with said individual.  It happens. 

Topic aside, that must have been *awesome*.  I mean, other than the obviously frightening aspect that the person coulda gone postal or something - sounds like it was more like this:

https://youtu.be/hTOKJTRHMdw

 

 

[Gally]

What company would sanction a gambling event? Seems unlikely at best that this was an official company sanctioned league. 

Topic aside, that must have been *awesome*.  I mean, other than the obviously frightening aspect that the person coulda gone postal or something - sounds like it was more like this:

https://youtu.be/hTOKJTRHMdw

 

It was hilarious and was obvious there was no impending danger at that time.  There was worry about retaliation later but once cooler heads prevailed it blew over fairly quickly.    Most people were cracking up and of course it changed policy with regards to letting people go.  Everything gets locked down and company property taken away and now they are ushered out the door with someone collecting personal items and having them delivered within the week. 

I have no idea regarding the company sanctioning the league from the OP.  It was just a side I could see a large corporation taking to limit exposure after the fact if the firing was not cordial.