Brian Cox (1 Viewer)

[RKade]

Not sure if he qualifies as a "football analyst," but Bill Simmons (ESPN Page 2 columnist) has been saying this for years - usually in the context of fading Manning for gambling purposes in big games.

He's great and I completely agree. Since the Titans at Indy postseason you can pretty much guarantee easy $$$ from taking the team playing the Colts because every year people jump on the Indy bandwagon and usually have more talent so they are the favorites but like every year you can easily pick up some free coin by taking the dog...best part is you get the pts for free!

 

[Gr00vus]

Not sure if he qualifies as a "football analyst," but Bill Simmons (ESPN Page 2 columnist) has been saying this for years - usually in the context of fading Manning for gambling purposes in big games.

Now that's interesting. I wonder how that's worked out so far. Obviously he's lost all his playoff games, but what about regular season - and what about vs. the spread?

 

[Mungo Burrows]

Give me an average QB who can win playoff games over a QB who will throw three times as many yards then choke in the postseason any day of the week.

As long as Ray Lewis, Jamal Lewis, Jonathan Ogden, Peter Boulware and Co. come along for the ride!

 

[yetiknight]

Manning has had ONE home playoff game and played the Titans who went to the Super Bowl that year. His other playoff losses were on the road at Miami and the Jets. He played well in both the Tennessee and the Miami games but he stunk up the Meadowlands last season. We don't need to go into the whole thing about how they had a better record than the Jets and still had to go on the road to play them.He hasn't been good his whole career at taking his team down in the final seconds to win a game whether it is playoff or regular season. He had opportunities in his first two playoff games. One ended on a blocked field goal and the other died on of all things a dropped pass by Harrison. It may not be his fault, but it does seem to haunt him a bit.He has done some amazing things this year and his team has been in every game they have lost. Three plays go differently over the course of the season and they could be undefeated. And of course, it could go the other way and they could have six losses. Just plan on seeing Manning get at least one opportunity to prove Brian Cox wrong this year. Unfortunately, it will probably be on the road at Cincy or Baltimore(who's record will probably be worse). And if he pulls that off, he'll have to do it in KC, NE, or Tenn the following week. Just doesn't seem like his chances are good for this year.

 

[Joe Bryant]

he actually sees peyton manning for what he truly is: a good quarterback who cannot win the big game.as shown last week.

This sounds like something Cox would say.The question I'd have is define "big game". Playoff games? Then yes, he's without question got an argument. But big games "like last week?"Wins this season alone over Tennessee, Miami and a huge comeback against 2-1 Tampa Bay on Monday night don't qualify as "big games"? J

 

[iwascool]

Cox and Vanderjagt are right.It is amazing how defensive Sean Salsbury (sp?) got during the discussion. His body language by the end of the show sure looked like he was totally peeved at Cox.These "experts" don't like it when they get caught fawning over players.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I don't much like Peyton Manning, but I think it's silly to label him as mediocre based on the fact that he's made it into prior playoff games with ridiculously bad defenses. If the current defense is suspect; Dungy has "coached them up", but there smallish and finesse-based.

 

[matrix9280]

Manning has had ONE home playoff game and played the Titans who went to the Super Bowl that year. His other playoff losses were on the road at Miami and the Jets. He played well in both the Tennessee and the Miami games but he stunk up the Meadowlands last season. We don't need to go into the whole thing about how they had a better record than the Jets and still had to go on the road to play them.He hasn't been good his whole career at taking his team down in the final seconds to win a game whether it is playoff or regular season. He had opportunities in his first two playoff games. One ended on a blocked field goal and the other died on of all things a dropped pass by Harrison. It may not be his fault, but it does seem to haunt him a bit.He has done some amazing things this year and his team has been in every game they have lost. Three plays go differently over the course of the season and they could be undefeated. And of course, it could go the other way and they could have six losses. Just plan on seeing Manning get at least one opportunity to prove Brian Cox wrong this year. Unfortunately, it will probably be on the road at Cincy or Baltimore(who's record will probably be worse). And if he pulls that off, he'll have to do it in KC, NE, or Tenn the following week. Just doesn't seem like his chances are good for this year.

damn weren't you defending him before? give manning some kind of a chance. if they win against the titans who they've already beaten once this season then they should win the division and host at least 1 playoff game. you've gotta stop making these excuses for him too. there comes a time where you just have to get the job done.

 

[The Grizzly One]

he actually sees peyton manning for what he truly is: a good quarterback who cannot win the big game.as shown last week.

Seriously what is off about this comment. It's merely factual. I love Manning and most teams would love to have him. But as of yet he hasn't won the big game.Not to say he wont though. I'll go out on a limb (yea right) an predict one day Peyton Manning will win some big games.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Seriously what is off about this comment. It's merely factual.

The question I'd have is define "big game". Playoff games? Then yes, he's without question got an argument. But big games "like last week?"Wins this season alone over Tennessee, Miami and a huge comeback against 2-1 Tampa Bay on Monday night don't qualify as "big games"?

 

[matrix9280]

This sounds like something Cox would say.The question I'd have is define "big game". Playoff games? Then yes, he's without question got an argument. But big games "like last week?"Wins this season alone over Tennessee, Miami and a huge comeback against 2-1 Tampa Bay on Monday night don't qualify as "big games"? J

last week the colts had a chance to have the inside track on a bye in the first round of the playoffs and they blew it. that's pretty big to me. they beat tennessee week 2 without making mcnair available to make a comeback. big deal. they pounded on miami with griese at qb. good win but not great. and that "miracle" comeback on monday night pretty much means nothing seeing as how tampa sucks now. what exactly do you mean by "that sounds like something cox would say"? you mean the truth right?

 

[yetiknight]

i stated what i thought was the probable outcome of the season for the colts. i haven't made any excuses for manning. i haven't brought up the defense once. but his THREE opportunities were all tough games to win and he DIDN"T get the job done. it will not be any easier this year. in fact, this year will be alot tougher IMO. so maybe in Dungy's third year manning will get the rest of his team to raise their game to another level and have a shot at winning it all. just my predictions. i happen to live in Indy and hope i am wrong about this year.i am actually a Giants fan. so this is mostly me venting.

 

[RKade]

Now that's interesting. I wonder how that's worked out so far. Obviously he's lost all his playoff games, but what about regular season - and what about vs. the spread?

If I recall correctly, the games are POSTSEASON games. Usually Indy is favored and I don't think they have EVER covered any spread (I believe when they played at Miami they weren't favored but didn't cover).Basically, not counting regular season games, if you want to make easy $$$$$ bet against Indy in the playoffs. The media and NFL loves Peyton and everyone thinks he is a top notch QB and will win it. Lots of $$$ is laid on Indy but the smart bettors know what the outcome will be, bet against them, take the pts that you don't need and count your money. I have since the Ten vs Indy game. It's become like my 2nd bonus of the year.Note: While I typically don't bet reg season games involving Indy, I couldn't pass up 4 pts and NE.

 

[mrspree15]

He played well in both the Tennessee and the Miami games but he stunk up the Meadowlands last season.

1999 ten L(16-19) 19- 43 227 yards 0 TDs 0 INTs (1 Rushing TD) 2000 mia L(17-23) 17-32 194 yards 1 TD 0 INTs 2002 nyj L(0-41) 14-31 137 yards 0 TDs 2 INTsI wouldn't call those first two "playing well," especially not for an "elite" QB. We don't need to address the Jets debacle.1999: Colts had 17th ranked D,2000: 15th 2002: 7th I'm not asking him to win a Superbowl with mediocre D's, just win a game.

 

[RKade]

This sounds like something Cox would say.The question I'd have is define "big game".  Playoff games? Then yes, he's without question got an argument. But big games "like last week?"Wins this season alone over Tennessee, Miami and a huge comeback against 2-1 Tampa Bay on Monday night don't qualify as "big games"?    J

last week the colts had a chance to have the inside track on a bye in the first round of the playoffs and they blew it. that's pretty big to me. they beat tennessee week 2 without making mcnair available to make a comeback. big deal. they pounded on miami with griese at qb. good win but not great. and that "miracle" comeback on monday night pretty much means nothing seeing as how tampa sucks now. what exactly do you mean by "that sounds like something cox would say"? you mean the truth right?

Good stuff there. Miami had Griese for crying out loud and Indy beat the Titans FOR THE FIRST TIME UNDER MANNING in an early meaningless game (week 2). So because Peyton finally beats the Titans like one out of 13 times it means something. Part of me actually would like for them to win against Titans and get into the postseason. I want them riding HIGH going in so once again, bet the dog and clean up!Edit: why is TB even mentioned in here? Hard to imagine but they are one of the worst teams.

 

[matrix9280]

i stated what i thought was the probable outcome of the season for the colts. i haven't made any excuses for manning. i haven't brought up the defense once. but his THREE opportunities were all tough games to win and he DIDN"T get the job done. it will not be any easier this year. in fact, this year will be alot tougher IMO. so maybe in Dungy's third year manning will get the rest of his team to raise their game to another level and have a shot at winning it all. just my predictions. i happen to live in Indy and hope i am wrong about this year.i am actually a Giants fan. so this is mostly me venting.

see that's kind of the problem with having manning around. he's an unrestricted free agent this season and i'd assume that the colts have to resign him. he's already the highest paid qb right now. now he's going to cost more? the colts can pretty much forget about getting any defensive help in free agency next year. i guess you have to keep manning around to be competitive everyyear but you just have to wonder if he's worth if he keeps losing big games.

 

[daveR]

Trade ya Tim Couch...

 

[matrix9280]

Trade ya Tim Couch...

i probably would too. i mean someday manning will be worth his huge salary and win a playoff game right?

 

[djcolts]

I've always enjoyed his takes. He's certainly not afraid to say what's on his mind, and he's not wishy-washy like everybody else on ESPN. And he DOES get it. He's one of the few analysts out there with the ability to think outside the box.

He also said "Sit Manning" last week for FFL advice on Sportscenter. He's no genius.

 

[Joe Bryant]

This sounds like something Cox would say.The question I'd have is define "big game".  Playoff games? Then yes, he's without question got an argument. But big games "like last week?"Wins this season alone over Tennessee, Miami and a huge comeback against 2-1 Tampa Bay on Monday night don't qualify as "big games"?     J

last week the colts had a chance to have the inside track on a bye in the first round of the playoffs and they blew it. that's pretty big to me. they beat tennessee week 2 without making mcnair available to make a comeback. big deal. they pounded on miami with griese at qb. good win but not great. and that "miracle" comeback on monday night pretty much means nothing seeing as how tampa sucks now. what exactly do you mean by "that sounds like something cox would say"? you mean the truth right?

Good stuff there. Miami had Griese for crying out loud and Indy beat the Titans FOR THE FIRST TIME UNDER MANNING in an early meaningless game (week 2). So because Peyton finally beats the Titans like one out of 13 times it means something. Part of me actually would like for them to win against Titans and get into the postseason. I want them riding HIGH going in so once again, bet the dog and clean up!Edit: why is TB even mentioned in here? Hard to imagine but they are one of the worst teams.

LOLThat's exactly what I'm saying. If Manning had lost any one of those games (TEN, MIA, TB) we'd be hearing "the can't win the big game" talk from the talking heads. Those were all big games, including a 2-1 Tampa Bay on the Monday Night Stage with a huge comeback. When he wins those games, people forget and wait for the next loss that fits into their conventional wisdom soundbite. But I doubt that will ever change.J

 

[yetiknight]

i think the original purpose of this post was to give brian cox some props for having the guts to say something that has been said by just about everybody in or around the NFL.if the colts lose to the titans this week i hope i don't see a repeat thread of how Merril Hoge or Deion Sanders finally said what nobody else had the guts to say. this thread should go away at least until the playoffs.

 

[matrix9280]

i think the original purpose of this post was to give brian cox some props for having the guts to say something that has been said by just about everybody in or around the NFL.

what are you talking about? everybody else gives manning too much credit. bryan cox was the only one to tell it like it is. i had forgot about this too until you reminded me.

 

[Mrskoal333]

Cox is an idiot and they should fire him with Michael Irvin (The Mouthmaker)

 

[tdoss]

that'll be a while. the reason i said something is because brian cox finally had the guts to say something about it. unlike every single other football analyst out there.

Wonder if he's being racist?

 

[yetiknight]

i think the original purpose of this post was to give brian cox some props for having the guts to say something that has been said by just about everybody in or around the NFL.

what are you talking about? everybody else gives manning too much credit. bryan cox was the only one to tell it like it is. i had forgot about this too until you reminded me.

you really don't pay attention to much do you? every playoff game he has lost has resulted in endless commentary about how he can't win the "big game". it is a tired comment. when jim mora coached the colts, manning and mora were suddenly be grouped together as people who never won the "big game".the subject is an old tired subject. people like to talk about really good or great players that for some reason never get it done when it counts. manning may end his career eclipsing every one of dan marino's records. and if he never wins the super bowl, they will be like siamese twins who did everything but win it all. there are a whole lot more players who haven't won big games than ones who have. the only reason this is worth mentioning is because you would expect the best quarterback in the league from every other standpoint to be able to provide the spark a team needs to win in a huge game. but manning is not that kind of a quarterback. he is great but he doesn't have that thing that guys like montana and bradshaw had and favre and pennington have now.

 

[Mrskoal333]

i think the original purpose of this post was to give brian cox some props for having the guts to say something that has been said by just about everybody in or around the NFL.

what are you talking about? everybody else gives manning too much credit. bryan cox was the only one to tell it like it is. i had forgot about this too until you reminded me.

you really don't pay attention to much do you? every playoff game he has lost has resulted in endless commentary about how he can't win the "big game". it is a tired comment. when jim mora coached the colts, manning and mora were suddenly be grouped together as people who never won the "big game".the subject is an old tired subject. people like to talk about really good or great players that for some reason never get it done when it counts. manning may end his career eclipsing every one of dan marino's records. and if he never wins the super bowl, they will be like siamese twins who did everything but win it all. there are a whole lot more players who haven't won big games than ones who have. the only reason this is worth mentioning is because you would expect the best quarterback in the league from every other standpoint to be able to provide the spark a team needs to win in a huge game. but manning is not that kind of a quarterback. he is great but he doesn't have that thing that guys like montana and bradshaw had and favre and pennington have now.

Pennington? :wacko:

 

[matrix9280]

i think the original purpose of this post was to give brian cox some props for having the guts to say something that has been said by just about everybody in or around the NFL.

what are you talking about? everybody else gives manning too much credit. bryan cox was the only one to tell it like it is. i had forgot about this too until you reminded me.

you really don't pay attention to much do you? every playoff game he has lost has resulted in endless commentary about how he can't win the "big game". it is a tired comment. when jim mora coached the colts, manning and mora were suddenly be grouped together as people who never won the "big game".the subject is an old tired subject. people like to talk about really good or great players that for some reason never get it done when it counts. manning may end his career eclipsing every one of dan marino's records. and if he never wins the super bowl, they will be like siamese twins who did everything but win it all. there are a whole lot more players who haven't won big games than ones who have. the only reason this is worth mentioning is because you would expect the best quarterback in the league from every other standpoint to be able to provide the spark a team needs to win in a huge game. but manning is not that kind of a quarterback. he is great but he doesn't have that thing that guys like montana and bradshaw had and favre and pennington have now.

no one ever says anything bad about manning. it's like a passing comment that they brush off and say oh eventually he'll come through. who said anything about him winning the super bowl? i'm just wondering if he can win a playoff game. i don't even care about that right now. he'll show me something if he goes out and beats the titans this week. if he does that then the colts basically win the division. then i'll forget about manning choking in the playoffs for a little while. maybe.

 

[matrix9280]

i think the original purpose of this post was to give brian cox some props for having the guts to say something that has been said by just about everybody in or around the NFL.

what are you talking about? everybody else gives manning too much credit. bryan cox was the only one to tell it like it is. i had forgot about this too until you reminded me.

you really don't pay attention to much do you? every playoff game he has lost has resulted in endless commentary about how he can't win the "big game". it is a tired comment. when jim mora coached the colts, manning and mora were suddenly be grouped together as people who never won the "big game".the subject is an old tired subject. people like to talk about really good or great players that for some reason never get it done when it counts. manning may end his career eclipsing every one of dan marino's records. and if he never wins the super bowl, they will be like siamese twins who did everything but win it all. there are a whole lot more players who haven't won big games than ones who have. the only reason this is worth mentioning is because you would expect the best quarterback in the league from every other standpoint to be able to provide the spark a team needs to win in a huge game. but manning is not that kind of a quarterback. he is great but he doesn't have that thing that guys like montana and bradshaw had and favre and pennington have now.

Pennington? :wacko:

pennington's won a playoff game. and i think you forgot the

 

[Mrskoal333]

i think the original purpose of this post was to give brian cox some props for having the guts to say something that has been said by just about everybody in or around the NFL.

what are you talking about? everybody else gives manning too much credit. bryan cox was the only one to tell it like it is. i had forgot about this too until you reminded me.

you really don't pay attention to much do you? every playoff game he has lost has resulted in endless commentary about how he can't win the "big game". it is a tired comment. when jim mora coached the colts, manning and mora were suddenly be grouped together as people who never won the "big game".the subject is an old tired subject. people like to talk about really good or great players that for some reason never get it done when it counts. manning may end his career eclipsing every one of dan marino's records. and if he never wins the super bowl, they will be like siamese twins who did everything but win it all. there are a whole lot more players who haven't won big games than ones who have. the only reason this is worth mentioning is because you would expect the best quarterback in the league from every other standpoint to be able to provide the spark a team needs to win in a huge game. but manning is not that kind of a quarterback. he is great but he doesn't have that thing that guys like montana and bradshaw had and favre and pennington have now.

Pennington? :wacko:

pennington's won a playoff game. and i think you forgot the

He put Pennington in the same class as Farve, Montana, and Bradshaw. :wacko:

 

[matrix9280]

yeah he's definitely not there. yet.

 

[yetiknight]

it may only last a week, but living in indy, on three different occasions i have listened to the national media declare that manning can't win the big game. i didn't pay that much attention to him in college but i am fully aware of his big game woes there because they keep getting brought up as his list of failures gets longer. losing the pats game was huge. and what happens? you start hearing ghosts of all of the big games in manning's past.as for him just winning a playoff game, he may win one this year. but if he plays cincy and wins then loses in KC, NE, Tenn then you will still here the same old story from guys like cox who can't think of anything better to say. and unfortunately somebody has to say it. he will inevitably win in the playoffs sooner or later. that won't satisfy critics because there job is to point out his failures.

 

[yetiknight]

i think the original purpose of this post was to give brian cox some props for having the guts to say something that has been said by just about everybody in or around the NFL.

what are you talking about? everybody else gives manning too much credit. bryan cox was the only one to tell it like it is. i had forgot about this too until you reminded me.

you really don't pay attention to much do you? every playoff game he has lost has resulted in endless commentary about how he can't win the "big game". it is a tired comment. when jim mora coached the colts, manning and mora were suddenly be grouped together as people who never won the "big game".the subject is an old tired subject. people like to talk about really good or great players that for some reason never get it done when it counts. manning may end his career eclipsing every one of dan marino's records. and if he never wins the super bowl, they will be like siamese twins who did everything but win it all. there are a whole lot more players who haven't won big games than ones who have. the only reason this is worth mentioning is because you would expect the best quarterback in the league from every other standpoint to be able to provide the spark a team needs to win in a huge game. but manning is not that kind of a quarterback. he is great but he doesn't have that thing that guys like montana and bradshaw had and favre and pennington have now.

Pennington? :wacko:

pennington's won a playoff game. and i think you forgot the

He put Pennington in the same class as Farve, Montana, and Bradshaw. :wacko:

fair enough, substitute mcnair if you want. i was actually going for someone a little further down the food chain. i still see something special in pennington that makes him seemingly play over his head. thats why people are comparing him to montana. but i wouldn't say he is destined for the HOF yet.

 

[XNOUGHT]

Funny that the two players who have the most trouble in the playoffs are now on the same team. Dungy and Manning.

 

[yetiknight]

Funny that the two players who have the most trouble in the playoffs are now on the same team. Dungy and Manning.

it was worse when jim mora was in indy. believe me.

 

[matrix9280]

Funny that the two players who have the most trouble in the playoffs are now on the same team. Dungy and Manning.

yeah. it's like the two losers were meant for each other.

 

[Mrskoal333]

i think the original purpose of this post was to give brian cox some props for having the guts to say something that has been said by just about everybody in or around the NFL.

what are you talking about? everybody else gives manning too much credit. bryan cox was the only one to tell it like it is. i had forgot about this too until you reminded me.

you really don't pay attention to much do you? every playoff game he has lost has resulted in endless commentary about how he can't win the "big game". it is a tired comment. when jim mora coached the colts, manning and mora were suddenly be grouped together as people who never won the "big game".the subject is an old tired subject. people like to talk about really good or great players that for some reason never get it done when it counts. manning may end his career eclipsing every one of dan marino's records. and if he never wins the super bowl, they will be like siamese twins who did everything but win it all. there are a whole lot more players who haven't won big games than ones who have. the only reason this is worth mentioning is because you would expect the best quarterback in the league from every other standpoint to be able to provide the spark a team needs to win in a huge game. but manning is not that kind of a quarterback. he is great but he doesn't have that thing that guys like montana and bradshaw had and favre and pennington have now.

Pennington? :wacko:

pennington's won a playoff game. and i think you forgot the

He put Pennington in the same class as Farve, Montana, and Bradshaw. :wacko:

fair enough, substitute mcnair if you want. i was actually going for someone a little further down the food chain. i still see something special in pennington that makes him seemingly play over his head. thats why people are comparing him to montana. but i wouldn't say he is destined for the HOF yet.

Nobody is destined for the Hall after 2 years. He has potential but needs to stay healthy and play for many years and win many games to get to the Hall.

 

[tommyGunZ]

This debate is so stupid I feel like I'm taking the bait just for weighing in.Manning's statistics through 6 years are among the all time greats. Only Marino put up better numbers. So statistics are on Manning's side. Was Walter Payton simply "average", b/c he couldn't lead the Bears to the promised land until he had the greatest defense of all time behind him.Manning is an All-Time great, regardless of what happens in the playoffs this year.

 

[Mrskoal333]

This debate is so stupid I feel like I'm taking the bait just for weighing in.Manning's statistics through 6 years are among the all time greats. Only Marino put up better numbers. So statistics are on Manning's side. Was Walter Payton simply "average", b/c he couldn't lead the Bears to the promised land until he had the greatest defense of all time behind him.Manning is an All-Time great, regardless of what happens in the playoffs this year.

 

[matrix9280]

Manning's statistics through 6 years are among the all time greats. Only Marino put up better numbers. So statistics are on Manning's side.

except in the playoffs when it counts

Was Walter Payton simply "average", b/c he couldn't lead the Bears to the promised land until he had the greatest defense of all time behind him.

quarterbacks lead not running backs. don't compare the two.

Manning is an All-Time great, regardless of what happens in the playoffs this year.

we'll agree to disagree on that.

 

[JohnnyU]

How many Super Bowls did Elway lose before he won? How many SB did Marino win? Tarkenton? Kelly? Manning is 0-3 in playoff games, sheesh , it's not like he's 0-8.

 

[matrix9280]

How many Super Bowls did Elway lose before he won? Marino? Tarkenton? Kelly? Manning is 0-3 in playoff games, sheesh , it's not like he's 0-8.

not yet anyway. for what's it's worth he's 0-4 against florida and 0-3 in the nfl playoffs so he's only one playoff loss away to be 0-8 in my eyes.

 

[JohnnyU]

not yet anyway. for what's it's worth he's 0-4 against florida and 0-3 in the nfl playoffs so he's only one playoff loss away to be 0-8 in my eyes.

I wonder if Elway ever beat USC or UCLA? Don't know, but check it out. Either way, I don't ever count college games. Florida had such a domonate defense during the years Peyton played in college.Edited to say that Elway never led Stanford to a Bowl game and Stanford didn't beat USC or UCLA from 1980 - 1983. I think those were Elway's years at Stanford.

 

[matrix9280]

I wonder if Elway ever beat USC or UCLA? Don't know, but check it out. Either way, I don't ever count college games. Florida had such a domonate defense during the years Peyton played in college.

he's no johnny unitas that's for sure.

 

[mrspree15]

I wonder if Elway ever beat USC or UCLA? Don't know, but check it out. Either way, I don't ever count college games. Florida had such a domonate defense during the years Peyton played in college.Edited to say that Elway never led Stanford to a Bowl game.

I wonder if Elway ever had the top 10 talent Peyton had every year...

 

[JohnnyU]

I wonder if Elway ever beat USC or UCLA? Don't know, but check it out. Either way, I don't ever count college games. Florida had such a domonate defense during the years Peyton played in college.Edited to say that Elway never led Stanford to a Bowl game.

I wonder if Elway ever had the top 10 talent Peyton had every year...

Takes more than 1 player. He can't play defense. The Colts still don't have a dominate defense either. A better one, but weak against the run again. It's foolish to place that blame on Manning. There have been plenty of offensive powerhouses over the years that don't win in the playoffs.

 

[Mrskoal333]

I wonder if Elway ever beat USC or UCLA? Don't know, but check it out. Either way, I don't ever count college games. Florida had such a domonate defense during the years Peyton played in college.Edited to say that Elway never led Stanford to a Bowl game.

I wonder if Elway ever had the top 10 talent Peyton had every year...

Peyton won alot better percentage of his games in college than Elway.

 

[mrspree15]

I wonder if Elway ever beat USC or UCLA?  Don't know, but check it out.  Either way, I don't ever count college games.  Florida had such a domonate defense during the years Peyton played in college.Edited to say that Elway never led Stanford to a Bowl game.

I wonder if Elway ever had the top 10 talent Peyton had every year...

Peyton won alot better percentage of his games in college than Elway.

I'm referring to the fact that Elway never really had a chance to beat a good team, since Stanford was never any good. Peyton on the other hand, had an elite program, but still fell short in the team's big game.

 

[Mrskoal333]

I wonder if Elway ever beat USC or UCLA?  Don't know, but check it out.  Either way, I don't ever count college games.   Florida had such a domonate defense during the years Peyton played in college.Edited to say that Elway never led Stanford to a Bowl game.

I wonder if Elway ever had the top 10 talent Peyton had every year...

Peyton won alot better percentage of his games in college than Elway.

I'm referring to the fact that Elway never really had a chance to beat a good team, since Stanford was never any good. Peyton on the other hand, had an elite program, but still fell short in the team's big game.

Did you ever think that Manning didnt have the best team in college and thats why his team didnt win it all? He had a good team but not nearly the best. He made them a top ten team. If he wasnt there they wouldnt have done as well as he did. Then after he left they started to get the high recruits from high school and they got better talent so they did even better.

 

[mrspree15]

I wonder if Elway ever beat USC or UCLA?  Don't know, but check it out.  Either way, I don't ever count college games.   Florida had such a domonate defense during the years Peyton played in college.Edited to say that Elway never led Stanford to a Bowl game.

I wonder if Elway ever had the top 10 talent Peyton had every year...

Peyton won alot better percentage of his games in college than Elway.

I'm referring to the fact that Elway never really had a chance to beat a good team, since Stanford was never any good. Peyton on the other hand, had an elite program, but still fell short in the team's big game.

Did you ever think that Manning didnt have the best team in college and thats why his team didnt win it all? He had a good team but not nearly the best. He made them a top ten team. If he wasnt there they wouldnt have done as well as he did. Then after he left they started to get the high recruits from high school and they got better talent so they did even better.

My beef isn't with college Peyton, its with pro Peyton. However, you can't deny that he didn't win the team's big game ever at UT. Rivalries are huge in college and if I was a UT fan, I wouldn't be happy w/ that. Just like in the pros, I don't expect him to win a championship w/ a sub-par team (which he has never had, BTW), I just want him to win a playoff game. Then I will put him in the elite class of QBs.

 

[JohnnyU]

I wonder if Elway ever beat USC or UCLA?  Don't know, but check it out.  Either way, I don't ever count college games.   Florida had such a domonate defense during the years Peyton played in college.Edited to say that Elway never led Stanford to a Bowl game.

I wonder if Elway ever had the top 10 talent Peyton had every year...

Peyton won alot better percentage of his games in college than Elway.

I'm referring to the fact that Elway never really had a chance to beat a good team, since Stanford was never any good. Peyton on the other hand, had an elite program, but still fell short in the team's big game.

Did you ever think that Manning didnt have the best team in college and thats why his team didnt win it all? He had a good team but not nearly the best. He made them a top ten team. If he wasnt there they wouldnt have done as well as he did. Then after he left they started to get the high recruits from high school and they got better talent so they did even better.

My beef isn't with college Peyton, its with pro Peyton. However, you can't deny that he didn't win the team's big game ever at UT. Rivalries are huge in college and if I was a UT fan, I wouldn't be happy w/ that. Just like in the pros, I don't expect him to win a championship w/ a sub-par team (which he has never had, BTW), I just want him to win a playoff game. Then I will put him in the elite class of QBs.

You say win 1 playoff game you will put him in with the elite. That's silly. Like I said earlier, he's not 0-8 in the playoffs. 3 games isn't that many. I find it amusing when people think the QB's has that much to do with winning a playoff game. Great TEAMS win championships, not great players. I don't care if he goes 0-10, if he plays for a team that gives up 200 yds to a rb in the playoffs, I'll never say it's his fault. The Colts defense in 2 of the 3 loses did just that (Eddie George and Lamar Smith). Also, Peyton didn't miss that field goal against Miami that would have tied the game. You guys kill me.