***Buffalo at Kansas City*** (-1.5) 54u Mr Allen, Mr Mahomes, gentlemen...START...YOUR...ENGINES!!! (1 Viewer)

[DropKick]

neither were playing defence at the end, yet the Chiefs D didn’t even have to take the field 

These guys get pretty gassed at a certain point.

 

[NutterButter]

Next year is gonna be the Bills best chance before his cap hit really shoots up.   

 

[identikit]

Boring game.

 

[Deamon]

We will probably never see a playoff weekend like we did this weekend ever again.

All 4 games ended on the final play.

The most playoff games ever in one season that ended on the final play of the day happened this year.











And they all happened in 1 weekend.

 

[Army Eye]

Do people just no longer consider defense part of the game? The Bills had the #1 ranked defense. Get a three and out, two first downs, and they could win on a FG. 

Can you seriously watch that game where 72 points were scored in regulation and suggest that defense is an equal part of the game?

(and it should have more than 72, more like 80+)

 

[Anarchy99]

I was around for that too. Brady >>>>>> Jones.

I was not down on Brady - he was my sleeper the next year & I snagged him in the 8th or 9th round. That was one of my easiest LCG appearances. 

Jones did more in his rookie season than Brady did in his second (first as a starter). Comparing a rookie QB to the GOAT after 20 years of play is comparing them at the wrong points in time. No one knows what will happen with Jones going forward. A better argument against Jones is that he’s not mobile and it’s much tougher to win by running the football. 

 

[rockaction]

no way the Chiefs are winning by more than 7 next week

Really? I don't see Cincinnati in quite the positive light others do, for sure, but I don't think I'm disrespecting them when I say the Chiefs might hang a forty burger on them. 

 

[DropKick]

I was around for that too. Brady >>>>>> Jones.

I was not down on Brady - he was my sleeper the next year & I snagged him in the 8th or 9th round. That was one of my easiest LCG appearances. 

Kinda harsh on Jones considering he's a rookie... Give him a chance.

 

[The Duff Man]

Really? I don't see Cincinnati in quite the positive light others do, for sure, but I don't think I'm disrespecting them when I say the Chiefs might hang a forty burger on them. 

With another 9 sacks on Joe 

 

[rockaction]

Jones did more in his rookie season than Brady did in his second (first as a starter). Comparing a rookie QB to the GOAT after 20 years of play is comparing them at the wrong points in time. No one knows what will happen with Jones going forward. A better argument against Jones is that he’s not mobile and it’s much tougher to win by running the football. 

I don't think he's doing that. He's comparing Brady after one year to Jones after one year. 

I'll bow out and let him correct the record, but it seems to me that's what he's saying. 

 

[DropKick]

The most playoff games ever in one season that ended on the final play of the day happened this year.
And they all happened in 1 weekend.

They were excellent...  officiating was very good as well - nothing distracting or really controversial and pretty consistent overall.  Great weekend for the NFL.

 

[rockaction]

With another 9 sacks on Joe 

I get what you're saying, but Tennessee has a really good pass rush that KC doesn't seem to have. Chris Jones and Ingram are their guys, and it doesn't seem like enough. 

Which is why I was surprised the Bills dinked and dunked all night until the fourth quarter. They weren't really getting to Allen on his straight dropbacks, if I'm not mistaken. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Kinda harsh on Jones considering he's a rookie... Give him a chance.

Not saying he can’t be the guy.

just sayin I’m not convinced he’s the guy. that ain’t harsh. It’s a fair evaluation. 

 

[Anarchy99]

Can you seriously watch that game where 72 points were scored in regulation and suggest that defense is an equal part of the game?

Then prepare better. Call better schemes. Spend more on defensive players. Rotate more players. Give guys more rest during the season. How come it’s only the defensive players get gassed? Do the offensive players not get hit all game or receivers don’t get tired running deep routes?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I don't think he's doing that. He's comparing Brady after one year to Jones after one year. 

I'll bow out and let him correct the record, but it seems to me that's what he's saying. 

Exactly correct. I was very specific about that. 

 

[Anarchy99]

I don't think he's doing that. He's comparing Brady after one year to Jones after one year. 

I'll bow out and let him correct the record, but it seems to me that's what he's saying. 

Jones as a rookie: 352-521/3801/22/13

Brady as a rookie: 1-3/6/0/0

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Jones did more in his rookie season than Brady did in his second (first as a starter).

I didn’t say he didn’t. I’m saying what I saw. Statistics can paint any picture you like. Brady passed the eye test. Jones, to this point, doesn’t, to me. It’s an opinion, subject to change with more data 

Comparing a rookie QB to the GOAT after 20 years of play is comparing them at the wrong points in time.
 

I didn’t. I compared their 1st seasons as a starter. 

 

[rockaction]

Jones as a rookie: 352-521/3801/22/13

Brady as a rookie: 1-3/6/0/0

Okay. I'll let you take it up with him, then. 

 

[modogg]

Over for sure. I’m hammering it whatever it is. 

looks like 53.5. hope Cincy doesn't try to go conservative thinking it is a good idea

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Check out that win probability chart on the left side of the page. Always hard to pinpoint those things, but by my count here were the changes in the last two minutes of regulation:

• 2:00: KC 82.7%
  
• 1:47: Buff 75.6% (158.3pt swing)
  
• 1:16: Buff 91.2%
  
• 1:02: KC 91.5% (182.7pt swing)
  
• 0:13: Buff 90.5% (182pt swing)
  
• 0:00: Buff 50.1%
  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

looks like 53.5. hope Cincy doesn't try to go conservative thinking it is a good idea

I’m a little concerned about the “keep Mahomes off the field with 28” plan. Gonna have to go watch the last game they played again to decide. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Check out that win probability chart on the left side of the page. Always hard to pinpoint those things, but by my count here were the changes in the last two minutes of regulation:

• 2:00: KC 82.7%
  
• 1:47: Buff 75.6%
  
• 1:16: Buff 91.2%
  
• 1:02: KC 91.5%
  
• 0:13: Buff 90.5%
  
• 0:00: Buff 50.1%
  

Incredible. 

 

[32 Counter Pass]

JFC, it is unbelievable how these coaches cannot manage the end of games. If the Bills squib kicked the ball after their last TD they win the game. Chiefs would have only had enough time for two offensive plays. A billion dollar industry and these clowns can figure out the most obvious moves.

 

[Anarchy99]

I didn’t say he didn’t. I’m saying what I saw. Statistics can paint any picture you like. Brady passed the eye test. Jones, to this point, doesn’t, to me. It’s an opinion, subject to change with more data 

I didn’t. I compared their 1st seasons as a starter. 

Still not a fair fight. Brady had an entire year in the system that Jones didn’t have. I remember Brady the first year as a starter. He was a game manager and BB kept him on a leash with training wheels on. 

In the Pats first three titles, the team rode the same formula they tried this year. Play great defense, have a strong running game, and don’t turn the ball over. Brady didn’t really start flinging the ball around until 2005 (his first 4,000 yard season. 

No matter what Jones did this year, concluding how he would do down the road would be nothing more than a guess. Jones looked very accurate and tough as nails to me. There were games he got hammered. Tell me who Jones has to throw to, how his OL will hold up, and who the coach will be and then we can have a better idea of how he will do moving forward. Since all of those are question marks, it’s incredibly difficult to have any idea of how Jones might do. 

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I think you're missing the point; whomever team gets the ball first... THE DEFENSE NEEDS TO MAKE A STOP. I don't care if it's the Chiefs, the Bills, the Fighting Illini, the Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech, or Tecmo Bowl Bo Jackson; you have a separate unit that is coached up and makes a lot of money. Go out there and make the opposing offense punt... or even better, do this.

And it was a coin toss to decide whose defense had to make a stop.  That's silly. 

Why not just had a FG kicking contest?  Or a punting contest?  Those are units that are coached up too.  Whoever wins the coin toss gets to attempt a 50 yard field goal for the game.  Totally arbitrary.  But so was this outcome in the end.

 

[The Duff Man]

Check out that win probability chart on the left side of the page. Always hard to pinpoint those things, but by my count here were the changes in the last two minutes of regulation:

• 2:00: KC 82.7%
  
• 1:47: Buff 75.6% (158.3pt swing)
  
• 1:16: Buff 91.2%
  
• 1:02: KC 91.5% (182.7pt swing)
  
• 0:13: Buff 90.5% (182pt swing)
  
• 0:00: Buff 50.1%
  

These probabilities are clearly not factoring in the coaches. I said it early in the thread. The Bills were out coached bad in this one. Not to mention how out coaching cost them home field in this game. 

 

[DropKick]

Exactly correct. I was very specific about that. 

I don't recall Brady starting as a rookie.

 

[BassNBrew]

I was around for that too. Brady >>>>>> Jones.

I was not down on Brady - he was my sleeper the next year & I snagged him in the 8th or 9th round. That was one of my easiest LCG appearances. 

Your three links are a) a play commonly referred to as a "miracle" which also featured what was most likely a forward pass, b) a play on which an offensive lineman returned a kickoff 70 yards, and c) an onside kick (not sure what that has to do with this discussion at all). And that's your evidence that squib kicks are more likely to be successful?

Jones as a rookie: 352-521/3801/22/13

Brady as a rookie: 1-3/6/0/0

Thank you for saving me the time

Brady as a 2nd year player

264-413/2843/18/12

I didn’t say he didn’t. I’m saying what I saw. Statistics can paint any picture you like. Brady passed the eye test. Jones, to this point, doesn’t, to me. It’s an opinion, subject to change with more data 

I didn’t. I compared their 1st seasons as a starter. 

Brady didn't pass the eye test year one or two.  He looked like Dilfer

 

[BassNBrew]

Your three links are a) a play commonly referred to as a "miracle" which also featured what was most likely a forward pass, b) a play on which an offensive lineman returned a kickoff 70 yards, and c) an onside kick (not sure what that has to do with this discussion at all). And that's your evidence that squib kicks are more likely to be successful?

Tonight was a bigger miracle.  We just don't call it that because it took two near micacle plays and a close FG and a coin toss win and a great drive to equal it.  The odds of the "miracle" are much higher than the five events needed tonight for Buffalo to loss.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I don't recall Brady starting as a rookie.

I was saying the year after. His 1st year starting.

I’m not sure why this is a Patriots topic all of a sudden. Just an off handed comment about how the bills are in a weak Division.

I don’t think Mac Jones is that good. It is what it is. 

 

[ChiefD]

Wow.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Brady didn't pass the eye test year one or two.  He looked like Dilfer

and to my eye Jones looks worse. 

 

[The Duff Man]

Not sure why Jones is being discussed in this thread but his play won’t matter. Allen had made the Pats D his ##### and will continue to crush them the next few years. Just like KC has made the Bills D their #####. 

Ask Bills fans tonight if it matters how good their QB plays. You need to be able to stop the other QB at some point and Pats cannot stop Allen any more than Buf can stop Mahomes. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Not sure why Jones is being discussed in this thread but his play won’t matter. Allen had made the Pats D his ##### and will continue to crush them the next few years. Just like KC has made the Bills D their #####. 

Ask Bills fans tonight if it matters how good their QB plays. You need to be able to stop the other QB at some point and Pats cannot stop Allen any more than Buf can stop Mahomes. 

I mentioned the Bills soft division & rebuilding teams & Anarchy showed up to turn it into a Patriots topic.  

 

[IvanKaramazov]

As a Bills fan I am more mad at the defence and the 13 seconds. If you can’t stop them there you don’t deserve to complain about the overtime rules. 

I can't even begin to wrap my my mind around the argument about OT.  Josh Allen and Gabriel Davis won the game in regulation.  All this team needed to do was not have its defense completely #### the bed over the last 13 seconds.  That was all.

 

[identikit]

So my brother turned off the game with 13 seconds left.

He thought I was the biggest liar when I told him what happened after.

 

[Anarchy99]

Not sure why Jones is being discussed in this thread but his play won’t matter. Allen had made the Pats D his ##### and will continue to crush them the next few years. Just like KC has made the Bills D their #####. 

Ask Bills fans tonight if it matters how good their QB plays. You need to be able to stop the other QB at some point and Pats cannot stop Allen any more than Buf can stop Mahomes. 

New England needs to get younger and faster defensively. They have been trying to play old, slow, oversized LBs that can’t cover anyone. They have been ok playing North and South but unable to do much going East and West. 

If they can get a couple of those guys, then will get closer to doing better against Allen. The other issue is I think Judon is mostly a one trick pony getting up the field trying to get to the QB. He won’t set the edge, usually ends up past the QB, and leaves a lane for running QBs to escape through. Can’t contain a guy if you are already past him. 

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Check out that win probability chart on the left side of the page. Always hard to pinpoint those things, but by my count here were the changes in the last two minutes of regulation:

• 2:00: KC 82.7%
  
• 1:47: Buff 75.6% (158.3pt swing)
  
• 1:16: Buff 91.2%
  
• 1:02: KC 91.5% (182.7pt swing)
  
• 0:13: Buff 90.5% (182pt swing)
  
• 0:00: Buff 50.1%
  

I'm not really a person who hates things. I mean, I try to be level-headed. Different things appeal to different people, and if something doesn't appeal to me, I pretty much just move on. Enjoy what you like and leave the rest behind, you know?

That being said, I HATE that probability thing on ESPN. It means absolutely nothing. It serves no purpose. Nobody can do anything with it. It's a dumb program some suit thought would spice up their Gamecast.

They wondered, can we do this? *Checks with IT department, who says, sure, I guess, if you really want to for some reason.* Great, let's get that chart up there!

IT department shrugs and puts it up there before going to Applebees for lunch.

It's about as football-relevant as a weather predictor...for Venus. Oh, it's going to be 880 degrees, up from 805 degrees? How interesting. I HATE HATE HATE that probability thing. 

I apologize for the rant. 

 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

So my brother turned off the game with 13 seconds left.

He thought I was the biggest liar when I told him what happened after.

omg  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I apologize for the rant. 

 

Good rant! Solid!

 

[rockaction]

I can't even begin to wrap my my mind around the argument about OT.  Josh Allen and Gabriel Davis won the game in regulation.  All this team needed to do was not have its defense completely #### the bed over the last 13 seconds.  That was all.

Sorry, IK. 

Cross-sport analogy: I remember the Red Sox in 2003. We had Pedro Martinez going on the hill and things went right. We were up 5-2 at the end of seven in Game Seven against the hated Yankees. Our bullpen, much maligned, had been lights out for a month and a half. And Grady Little left Pedro in because he was scared of his bullpen. And the Yankees won. Aaron Boone's home run in extra innings merely cemented a foregone conclusion in most of our minds after the Yankees had tied the score in the eighth, the inning Grady left Pedro in to flail during. They had tied it 5-5, fresh arms waiting in the pen, only to be used during the tie. 

After the shock of the game, there was this bleak feeling like a title would never happen. Then, 2004. Sometimes the team you thought was best (like I think that 2003 team was) doesn't win it. Sometimes you come back and figure out what beat you and you come back stronger. The Sox shored up the bullpen and got another starter in Schilling to eat innings so that the rest of the staff was stretched out. They started slower that year, and confusingly so. Seeing their weaknesses, they dealt their franchise player mid-year, and then took off, overcoming that 3-0 series deficit to the Yankees (of all teams) that nobody in baseball had ever overcome. Title. Joy. 

I hope that for the Bills next year and that you might take solace in that after a crushing defeat tonight. You'll address the needs, one hopes. You'll adjust the play-calling, one hopes. And when you do, there will be a great deal of joy in a win when you beat Brady and Tampa next year in the SB. 

 

[BassNBrew]

and to my eye Jones looks worse. 

And mine Brady looked worse.  Not even sure why we arguing this, but I didn't bring it up.

 

[BassNBrew]

So my brother turned off the game with 13 seconds left.

He thought I was the biggest liar when I told him what happened after.

The cashier at the quickie mart thought the Bills had won.  His phone died and he is a KC fan.  He thought I was BSing him too.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I'm not really a person who hates things. I mean, I try to be level-headed. Different things appeal to different people, and if something doesn't appeal to me, I pretty much just move on. Enjoy what you like and leave the rest behind, you know?

That being said, I HATE that probability thing on ESPN. It means absolutely nothing. It serves no purpose. Nobody can do anything with it. It's a dumb program some suit thought would spice up their Gamecast.

They wondered, can we do this? *Checks with IT department, who says, sure, I guess, if you really want to for some reason.* Great, let's get that chart up there!

IT department shrugs and puts it up there before going to Applebees for lunch.

It's about as football-relevant as a weather predictor...for Venus. Oh, it's going to be 880 degrees, up from 805 degrees? How interesting. I HATE HATE HATE that probability thing. 

I apologize for the rant. 

What's funny is that the only time I find it all that interesting is in situations like this. I think the first time I discovered it was after the 2014 NFCCG between the Packers and Seahawks (this was before ESPN started integrating it into its Gamecast, so I think it was just posted somewhere and I saw somebody link to it on Twitter.) Anyway, it's fun to see the wild swings like you had in that game and in tonight's game. But I agree in terms of in-game analysis, it's pretty useless. Plus I think you're onto something with the IT department not particularly caring. Because they probably could make it (marginally) more interesting if they allowed people to dig down at a more granular level, download the datasets, etc. But clearly all they want you to do is hover over it

 

[Wingnut]

I can't even begin to wrap my my mind around the argument about OT.  Josh Allen and Gabriel Davis won the game in regulation.  All this team needed to do was not have its defense completely #### the bed over the last 13 seconds.  That was all.

Also...squib kick and they maybe have 8 seconds left instead of 13.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

So if the Bills won the toss, would the Chiefs have 'played defense'.  Or would the Bills have gone right down the field? 

Of course you know what would happened.  The coin toss decides it.

buf punted 4 times ...chiefs twice...you never know

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Sorry, IK. 

Cross-sport analogy: I remember the Red Sox in 2003. We had Pedro Martinez going on the hill and things went right. We were up 5-2 at the end of seven in Game Seven against the hated Yankees. Our bullpen, much maligned, had been lights out for a month and a half. And Grady Little left Pedro in because he was scared of his bullpen. And the Yankees won. Aaron Boone's home run in extra innings merely cemented a foregone conclusion in most of our minds after the Yankees had tied the score in the eighth, the inning Grady left Pedro in to flail during. They had tied it 5-5, fresh arms waiting in the pen, only to be used during the tie. 

After the shock of the game, there was this bleak feeling like a title would never happen. Then, 2004. Sometimes the team you thought was best (like I think that 2003 team was) doesn't win it. Sometimes you come back and figure out what beat you and you come back stronger. The Sox shored up the bullpen and got another starter in Schilling to eat innings so that the rest of the staff was stretched out. They started slower that year, and confusingly so. Seeing their weaknesses, they dealt their franchise player mid-year, and then took off, overcoming that 3-0 series deficit to the Yankees (of all teams) that nobody in baseball had ever overcome. Title. Joy. 

I hope that for the Bills next year and that you might take solace in that after a crushing defeat tonight. You'll address the needs, one hopes. You'll adjust the play-calling, one hopes. And when you do, there will be a great deal of joy in a win when you beat Brady and Tampa next year in the SB. 

Like the Giants vs Angels Game 6 in 2002

Dusty Dodger gave Russ Ortiz the game ball & a pat on the butt to jinx it & that was all she wrote. Soul crushing, indescribable feeling of watching them snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Ugh. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

And mine Brady looked worse.  Not even sure why we arguing this, but I didn't bring it up.

lol - neither did I. I just said I wasn’t sold on Jones, while my point was about optimism for the Bills in part due to the weak division.

there. “Argument” settled  

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

What's funny is that the only time I find it all that interesting is in situations like this. I think the first time I discovered it was after the 2014 NFCCG between the Packers and Seahawks (this was before ESPN started integrating it into its Gamecast, so I think it was just posted somewhere and I saw somebody link to it on Twitter.) Anyway, it's fun to see the wild swings like you had in that game and in tonight's game. But I agree in terms of in-game analysis, it's pretty useless. Plus I think you're onto something with the IT department not particularly caring. Because they probably could make it (marginally) more interesting if they allowed people to dig down at a more granular level, download the datasets, etc. But clearly all they want you to do is hover over it

Imagine you had a buddy who, after the Bills scored with less than two minutes left, leaned over and said "You know, I'm pretty sure the Bills are gonna win."

Then the Chiefs score with a minute and change: "Actually, I think the Chiefs are gonna win now."

Bills score with 13 seconds left: "I gotta say, I'm going with the Bills as the heavy favorite."

Chiefs score to force overtime: "This one's a toss up for me right now."

Chiefs drive down the field in OT: "I'm starting to lean heavily toward the Chiefs. More and more, actually."

My question is...at what point do you kick him out of your house? Or, if you're the guest, at what point do you kick him out of his own house? 

 

[IHEARTFF]

Mahomes has hosted every AFCCG in his 4 years as starter. Chiefs literally hosted it zero times before that.