***Buffalo at Kansas City*** (-1.5) 54u Mr Allen, Mr Mahomes, gentlemen...START...YOUR...ENGINES!!! (1 Viewer)

[crushedspirit]

My head is still spinning from this game. 

I don't know how McDermott can explain this loss. A more colossal breakdown with 13 seconds left will be hard to match for decades. Why they didn't squib kick is beyond any reasonable explanation, and how Frazier allowed his D to let Kelce get that open while rushing 4, needs some explaining. I feel bad for Allen, as the kid played his heart out, and did everything in his power to pull off the win. 

As for Mahomes, I keep reminding myself he's in his 4th year as a starter. What more can one say about him? He's gifted with incredible talent, and carries a team more than any QB in the game today, and has for years. Should be a fun matchup with another talented QB next week.

Wow, what a weekend of football. As a neutral fan, I can only imagine what the fan bases were going through with the ups and downs in every game.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Tonight was a bigger miracle.  We just don't call it that because it took two near micacle plays and a close FG and a coin toss win and a great drive to equal it.  The odds of the "miracle" are much higher than the five events needed tonight for Buffalo to loss.

I think we can stipulate that all those situations involved rather improbable occurrences (well, except the onside kick). Also, thinking about it some more, I don't think Buffalo should have squibbed. I think they should have gone for a deeper kick that wasn't a touchback. Like, kick it to the 5 or 10 or something. Is that something NFL kickers can do with regularity? (I have no idea). Is it possible that's what Bass was trying to do, and he put too much leg in it? (Certainly possible). But I think if they had been able to do that, it would have been the best possible outcome.

(Tangent about the Connolly return: That game was the MNF matchup during the fantasy semis. My opponent had had Vick in the famous Miracle at the New Meadowlands game the day before and was up big on me, but I had Brady and the NE D. That return was huge. It happened right before halftime. I think for some reason our scoring wouldn't have given me points if he had gone all the way, but instead it set Brady up perfectly for a TD drive. I ended up winning on the final play of the game, when the Pats had a sack-fumble of Matt Flynn as GB was driving for a potential game-winning score.)

 

[BassNBrew]

Yeah...but KC did the same thing.  Last QB with the ball wins.  KC didn't deserve the win any more and if the coin had landed on the other side I'm sure Josh would have found the end zone.

I know this is a gut punch as a Panthers fan that gifted the Pats one and choked vs Denver.  You've got a great team, unfortunately they are better enough to escape the luck factor.  Honestly the only failure I see is coming up short in some regular season games and this game not being in Buffalo.

@Stinkin Ref pretty impressive for you to like this post.  Your QB was money tonight and probably had his best game of the year.  If KC had lost I would have blamed it on letting Davis run free and getting cute putting Blake in for Patrick.

We just witnessed a Super Bowl worthy game.

 

[rockaction]

Also, thinking about it some more, I don't think Buffalo should have squibbed. I think they should have gone for a deeper kick that wasn't a touchback. Like, kick it to the 5 or 10 or something. Is that something NFL kickers can do with regularity?

It's trickier than just driving the ball or squibbing it, but it can be done. The only time it becomes a problem is like the directional kicks that Tampa tried today (two out of bounds on kickoffs). The question is do you want a return at all by Hill, who I think was back there? That's playing with a bit of fire, too. 

 

[BassNBrew]

I think we can stipulate that all those situations involved rather improbable occurrences (well, except the onside kick). Also, thinking about it some more, I don't think Buffalo should have squibbed. I think they should have gone for a deeper kick that wasn't a touchback. Like, kick it to the 5 or 10 or something. Is that something NFL kickers can do with regularity? (I have no idea). Is it possible that's what Bass was trying to do, and he put too much leg in it? (Certainly possible). But I think if they had been able to do that, it would have been the best possible outcome.

(Tangent about the Connolly return: That game was the MNF matchup during the fantasy semis. My opponent had had Vick in the famous Miracle at the New Meadowlands game the day before and was up big on me, but I had Brady and the NE D. That return was huge. It happened right before halftime. I think for some reason our scoring wouldn't have given me points if he had gone all the way, but instead it set Brady up perfectly for a TD drive. I ended up winning on the final play of the game, when the Pats had a sack-fumble of Matt Flynn as GB was driving for a potential game-winning score.)

Yeah, it's easier said than done.  A ball at the five-ten could easily bounce into the end zone for the same result.  A ball to the 20 could be returned to the 40 leaving 9-10 seconds to gain 25 yards for a FG.

Or this happens https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXv7A584vIw and double the number of guys are posting here about how stupid you are for allowing a return.

 

[BassNBrew]

It's trickier than just driving the ball or squibbing it, but it can be done. The only time it becomes a problem is like the directional kicks that Tampa tried today (two out of bounds on kickoffs). The question is do you want a return at all by Hill, who I think was back there? That's playing with a bit of fire, too. 

Imagine the posts here if they allow Hill to return it after his punt return.

If I'm a coach I take the 25 yard line with 13 seconds left over anyone touching the ball on a kick off.

 

[The Duff Man]

There is some speculation on Buffalo sports radio that Bass was instructed to kick it short (to the 5 or so) and accidentally kicked it too far. 

 

[derek245583]

It's trickier than just driving the ball or squibbing it, but it can be done. The only time it becomes a problem is like the directional kicks that Tampa tried today (two out of bounds on kickoffs). The question is do you want a return at all by Hill, who I think was back there? That's playing with a bit of fire, too. 

Hill wasn’t back there

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

It's trickier than just driving the ball or squibbing it, but it can be done. The only time it becomes a problem is like the directional kicks that Tampa tried today (two out of bounds on kickoffs). The question is do you want a return at all by Hill, who I think was back there? That's playing with a bit of fire, too. 

Also, a squib could bounce wrong and be grabbed and they have the ball at the 40. Or Hill could have done something with it. Or it could have gone out of bounds. I think pinning them back at the 25 with no chance at a long return is worth the few seconds. 

Or it should be, anyway...

 

[IHEARTFF]

Hill wasn’t back there

But you can imagine what it would be like if he was

 

[Stinkin Ref]

These guys get pretty gassed at a certain point.

professional athletes that get paid to be in elite game shape....sorry but I hate this one...

 

[rockaction]

Hill wasn’t back there

Thanks. Then that makes it a little more confusing. Depends on who was there, really. Hardman can be lethal, too. I honestly don't know. I think everybody is surprised by the outcome of this game. 

It was indeed a barnburner like everyone predicted. 

 

[BassNBrew]

Hill not being back there is a bigger blunder than kicking it deep.

 

[crushedspirit]

How many squib kickoffs have been returned for game winning TDs?

 

[rockaction]

How many squib kickoffs have been returned for game winning TDs?

Fair. But I think the premise is really how many squib kickoffs have been fielded at about the thirty-five and returned quickly for ten yards? Then you'd have a better grip on the probabilistic ramifications of it all. 

It's all so unlikely. We can debate for days, but I'm not sure what any of it would have meant in the end. As it was, we got a result and that's that, really. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Hill not being back there is a bigger blunder than kicking it deep.

At the time I was wondering why he wasn’t. It seemed weird. 

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Im drunk but some quick takes...

1. Ive watched a lot of football, but maybe the greatest game I have ever seen and that may have included even if it ended with BUF winning in regulation....so fun one way or the other....and I'm a KC fan

2. Butker was going to be a huge goat....but then was money...I love that ####...

3. losing the honey badger early was huge......huge....huge...huge...

4. tired of KC thinking they are the smartest dude in the room and doing #### like the Bell at QB toss to RB thing....give the ####### ball to Mahomes on 3rd and 1 and do something....then give it to him again on 4th down if it doesn't work..hate them getting cute inside the 10....hate it....even if it works..

5. BUF is bad ###....Allen is the real deal....thank god DEN chose to take Bradley Chubb instead....

6. this thing was ####### over....I mean over....whether they squib or not....no way you lose up three with 13 left and the other team at 25....make a play

7. I feel so bad for BUF fans....I can't imagine laying my head on my pillow tonight if I am them....I was going to go to bed grumpy and lose some sleep if KC lost... but that was a straight nut punch, followed by an ### pounding when you bent over...

8. this is why no matter how much we complain about the officiating or how the league does some things that this is the the greatest sport in the world and football is king....the NFL does a pretty  good job of trying to keep "competitive balance" within the league and this weekend showed that....holy cow...

 

[32 Counter Pass]

How many squib kickoffs have been returned for game winning TDs?

Very few. It is because the roll of the ball is unpredictable and blocking cannot be set up properly. It would have easily run 6 seconds off the clock. Maybe more.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

4. tired of KC thinking they are the smartest dude in the room and doing #### like the Bell at QB toss to RB thing....give the ####### ball to Mahomes on 3rd and 1 and do something....then give it to him again on 4th down if it doesn't work..hate them getting cute inside the 10....hate it....even if it works..

This was all forgotten after all the other craziness, but I was texting my buddy at one point that option play could have turned out to be low-key one of the most important plays of the game. Chiefs got the big punt return from Hill; they score a TD there and Buffalo is basically done. Instead they called that goofy play on 3rd and walked away with a FG

 

[Jayrok]

Incredible game to wrap up what was perhaps the greatest weekend of playoff football in history. Every game outcome came down to the last play.

From the ineptness of Tannehill to the heroics of Allen and Mahomes.  Questions surrounding the futures of two of the greatest players ever... to questions of how an allegedly good defense could possibly allow a team to go 40+ yards unabated in 13 seconds to secure a tying FG. 

Love this game.

 

[Joe Bryant]

not sure it makes all that much difference TBH, but you're definitely in the minority on this one. Seems to me having any strong wind behind you in the fourth is the biggest advanatge, but harder to control without giving opponent ball first in both halves (which would be dumb)

No doubt. I'm in the minority on this one for sure. I'm kind of used to it.  

 

[The Dude]

Did anyone mention that the decision to kick the ball into the endzone with 13 seconds left probably cost the Bills the game?  

 

[humpback]

Very few. It is because the roll of the ball is unpredictable and blocking cannot be set up properly. It would have easily run 6 seconds off the clock. Maybe more.

The clock doesn't start until someone touches the ball, and many times squib kicks are recovered and downed right away. I'd say it's highly unlikely that it would have run 6 seconds or more off the clock, and would have come at the cost of better field position.

That said, I would have made them return a kick, but there are risks with squibbing it too.

 

[massraider]

There were breakdowns and bonehead coach moves on both sides. 

That was just the last one. 

 

[massraider]

The clock doesn't start until someone touches the ball, and many times squib kicks are recovered and downed right away. I'd say it's highly unlikely that it would have run 6 seconds or more off the clock, and would have come at the cost of better field position.

That said, I would have made them return a kick, but there are risks with squibbing it too.

This is where I come out. 

 

[Joe Mammy]

I'm still in post game paralysis.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

We just witnessed a Super Bowl worthy game.

I have a hard time imagining any of the remaining  games, including SB,  topping this.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The clock doesn't start until someone touches the ball, and many times squib kicks are recovered and downed right away. I'd say it's highly unlikely that it would have run 6 seconds or more off the clock, and would have come at the cost of better field position.

That said, I would have made them return a kick, but there are risks with squibbing it too.

IMO the squib talk is just Monday morning quarterbacking.  When the ball rolls to one of the up-men who takes a knee at his own 45, the coaching staff gets crucified for that decision too.

Obviously it would have been better to kick the ball short of the end zone.  But really, you had 13 seconds left.  That's probably just barely enough for three plays, one of which has to be either a FG attempt or a Hail Mary.  So really you only have two real plays to defend.  All you have to do is make sure those two plays aren't huge.  So just line up in your regular defense (which is a nickel in Buffalo's case) or put in your dime package, but just call a normal defense and tackle whoever catches the ball.  Why they ran that weird prevent when the Chiefs only needed a FG and had plenty of TOs doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[humpback]

IMO the squib talk is just Monday morning quarterbacking.  When the ball rolls to one of the up-men who takes a knee at his own 45, the coaching staff gets crucified for that decision too.

Obviously it would have been better to kick the ball short of the end zone.  But really, you had 13 seconds left.  That's probably just barely enough for three plays, one of which has to be either a FG attempt or a Hail Mary.  So really you only have two real plays to defend.  All you have to do is make sure those two plays aren't huge.  So just line up in your regular defense (which is a nickel in Buffalo's case) or put in your dime package, but just call a normal defense and tackle whoever catches the ball.  Why they ran that weird prevent when the Chiefs only needed a FG and had plenty of TOs doesn't make any sense to me.

Exactly. The defense deserves far more of the scrutiny/blame here.

 

[zed2283]

While it was exciting as ####, this game was just stupid.  Epic failures by the defenses on both sides, as each team had the game won multiple times.

As someone said in the Dallas/San Fran thread, that was the most exciting bad football I've ever seen.

 

[IHEARTFF]

while there are certainly mistakes to look back on by both teams, this was arguably the combined greatest QB play in a game in nfl history.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Read this tweet...ouch!

"Chiefs seriously moved 44 yards to set up the game tying field goal in less time than a Dak QB draw lmao"

 

[AAABatteries]

IMO the squib talk is just Monday morning quarterbacking.  When the ball rolls to one of the up-men who takes a knee at his own 45, the coaching staff gets crucified for that decision too.

Obviously it would have been better to kick the ball short of the end zone.  But really, you had 13 seconds left.  That's probably just barely enough for three plays, one of which has to be either a FG attempt or a Hail Mary.  So really you only have two real plays to defend.  All you have to do is make sure those two plays aren't huge.  So just line up in your regular defense (which is a nickel in Buffalo's case) or put in your dime package, but just call a normal defense and tackle whoever catches the ball.  Why they ran that weird prevent when the Chiefs only needed a FG and had plenty of TOs doesn't make any sense to me.

Hell, I think he could have lined up 6 across the 35 and 5 across the 50 and it would have worked out better.

 

[ChiefD]

I'm still in post game paralysis.

You and me both.

Jesus that was nuts. Josh Allen is every bit the equal of Mahomes. Incredible. 

 

[Jayrok]

You can't let Steph Curry get a free, open 3 pointer with less than 8 seconds on the clock if you have fouls to give.  Bills had fouls to give and only needed to melt 5 seconds.  Use the rules to your advantage. Defensive holding is only 5 yards. Can't let Mahomes have that easy shot.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I have a hard time imagining any of the remaining  games, including SB,  topping this.

That was Super Bowl 56 last night and I can't imagine we get anything like it next week however...there is this kid named Joe Burrow and my guess is Cinci will jump out in front and maybe even open a 2 TD lead at some point but Mahomes and the Chiefs will mount a furious comeback, not the back and forth we saw with Buffalo and give themselves a chance to return to the Super Bowl in the 4th Quarter. Can the Bengals overcome the fury of Mahomes because when he wants to win or wants something he finds a way most of the time to reach up and get ya' 

 

[JohnnyU]

If Buffalo had squibbed the kick they probably would have won.  At least a few of those seconds would have come off the clock.  I suppose they could have gone down immediately and called timeout (probably instructed to do so prior to the kickoff), but who knows.  

 

[Da Guru]

Frazier just screwed himself out of any head coaching opportunities. You want that guy as your head coach?  Unreal. 13 seconds left!?  And their safeties were 30 yards deep paranoid about giving up the win, even though with deep safeties they just gave up a TD a minute ago anyway. 

And DC Todd Bowles blew the game for TB as well.

And DC Todd Bowles blew the game for TB as well.

The kickoff is debatable. A good high kickoff would have landed around the 5 and then they would have ran off 4-5 seconds.  That would have given KC one play a TO and a FG try.  " If " executed perfectly.

Bottom line is with 13 seconds left I would have much rather been leading in Buffalos position that having the ball at the 25 losing with 13 seconds left.

The OT rules still bother me when one team is not allowed to touch the ball.

 

[humpback]

If Buffalo had squibbed the kick they probably would have won.  At least a few of those seconds would have come off the clock.  I suppose they could have gone down immediately and called timeout (probably instructed to do so prior to the kickoff), but who knows.  

The clock stops after the kickoff so no need to use a TO, and they kicked the FG with 3 seconds left on the clock so they would have needed them to run off at least that much time for it to have changed anything. A squib kick could have also given them better field position.

IMO the "best" choice would have been to force them to field the ball inside their 10 and return it, but that's easier said than done. Either way the defensive strategy and execution is a much bigger reason for giving up the FG there.

 

[Zeppelin]

Read this tweet...ouch!

"Chiefs seriously moved 44 yards to set up the game tying field goal in less time than a Dak QB draw lmao"

 

[crushedspirit]

Yes, no doubt Frazier and his D deserve way more blame than Buffalo not trying a squib. Keeping 4 at the line while leaving Kelce free to find wide open space in the middle is a head scratcher. 

 

[32 Counter Pass]

The clock doesn't start until someone touches the ball, and many times squib kicks are recovered and downed right away. I'd say it's highly unlikely that it would have run 6 seconds or more off the clock, and would have come at the cost of better field position.

That said, I would have made them return a kick, but there are risks with squibbing it too.

To clarify, the type of squib kick they should have done would have placed the ball inside the 20 between the hash marks and sideline. This  is something the special teams should have practiced. If the kicker was unable to place the ball in that area consistently then they should have done a mortar kick. Either way you force the team to field the ball and run the clock. 

Another interesting thought I have seen on social media is that the Bills could have simply held all the receivers and got 3 holding calls to run out the clock.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

To clarify, the type of squib kick they should have done would have placed the ball inside the 20 between the hash marks and sideline. This  is something the special teams should have practiced. If the kicker was unable to place the ball in that area consistently then they should have done a mortar kick. Either way you force the team to field the ball and run the clock. 

Another interesting thought I have seen on social media is that the Bills could have simply held all the receivers and got 3 holding calls to run out the clock.

they could have implemented something like this.....but the game can't end on a defensive penalty....so at some point there was going to be a FG or hail mary.....and obviously you probably like your odds with a hail mary better than what happened....

 

[ChiefD]

Yes, no doubt Frazier and his D deserve way more blame than Buffalo not trying a squib. Keeping 4 at the line while leaving Kelce free to find wide open space in the middle is a head scratcher. 

An amazing part of this story is after the first play to Hill, Kelce mentioned something to Mahomes in the huddle about the formation Buffalo was playing. Basically telling Mahomes - if you see what I'm seeing, I'm going to run that particular route. 

When he came out of the huddle, a different play was called. As Mahomes went to the line, he saw exactly what Kelce saw, audibled,  and you can hear it in his cadence:

“Do it, Kels!” Mahomes yelled. “Do it! Do it, Kels!”

That's simply two guys that have played together awhile and just know each other so well. Hard to defend that. 

 

[humpback]

To clarify, the type of squib kick they should have done would have placed the ball inside the 20 between the hash marks and sideline. This  is something the special teams should have practiced. If the kicker was unable to place the ball in that area consistently then they should have done a mortar kick. Either way you force the team to field the ball and run the clock. 

Another interesting thought I have seen on social media is that the Bills could have simply held all the receivers and got 3 holding calls to run out the clock.

A squib kick between the hash and the sideline very easily could have bounced out of bounds, meaning zero seconds off the clock and KC gets the ball at the 40 yard line. Part of the appeal of squib kicks is the unpredictability of the bounces, however in this scenario it adds quite a bit to the risk.

Again, giving them the ball at the 25 with 13 seconds left wasn't best case scenario but it also wasn't the worst. They should have been able to stop them.

 

[The Duff Man]

An amazing part of this story is after the first play to Hill, Kelce mentioned something to Mahomes in the huddle about the formation Buffalo was playing. Basically telling Mahomes - if you see what I'm seeing, I'm going to run that particular route. 

When he came out of the huddle, a different play was called. As Mahomes went to the line, he saw exactly what Kelce saw, audibled,  and you can hear it in his cadence:

“Do it, Kels!” Mahomes yelled. “Do it! Do it, Kels!”

That's simply two guys that have played together awhile and just know each other so well. Hard to defend that. 

You can’t fail to defend it when you don’t try to play defense. 

 

[travdogg]

Josh Allen literally played the best 2 game stretch of any QB in NFL history. Its incredible that he's going home. 

Andy Reid beat Sean McDermott. It starts there, and it arguably ends there. Coaching matters as much or more than anything in the playoffs, and Reid, Shanahan, and arguably McVay, won because they called better games when it mattered most.

 

[jabarony]

IMO the squib talk is just Monday morning quarterbacking.  When the ball rolls to one of the up-men who takes a knee at his own 45, the coaching staff gets crucified for that decision too.

Obviously it would have been better to kick the ball short of the end zone.  But really, you had 13 seconds left.  That's probably just barely enough for three plays, one of which has to be either a FG attempt or a Hail Mary.  So really you only have two real plays to defend.  All you have to do is make sure those two plays aren't huge.  So just line up in your regular defense (which is a nickel in Buffalo's case) or put in your dime package, but just call a normal defense and tackle whoever catches the ball.  Why they ran that weird prevent when the Chiefs only needed a FG and had plenty of TOs doesn't make any sense to me.

I’ll say this about a squib kick meaning better field position -  it’s possible, but when I envision Buffalo trying a squib, I’m not picturing a half-legged bouncer to the 35. I’m thinking Bass still should have put his leg into it, but hit it at a low angle so it still would be fielded at the 10, but without a chance for a fair catch, plus the possibility of some Buffalo friendly bounces. 

 

[32 Counter Pass]

A squib kick between the hash and the sideline very easily could have bounced out of bounds, meaning zero seconds off the clock and KC gets the ball at the 40 yard line. Part of the appeal of squib kicks is the unpredictability of the bounces, however in this scenario it adds quite a bit to the risk.

Again, giving them the ball at the 25 with 13 seconds left wasn't best case scenario but it also wasn't the worst. They should have been able to stop them.

Right, a squib kick has a lot of unpredictability which can be good. As I said this should have been reversed in practice multiple times. If there were concerns about placement then they should have mortar kicked. The objective is to run clock.

In a vacuum it is easy to say "they should have stopped them" but the Bills were not stopping Mahomes. The Chiefs moved down the field very easily prior to the Bills last TD. There was nothing to suggest that was going to change. In fact, as soon as the Bills kicked the ball deep I was convince the game was going to OT.

 

[32 Counter Pass]

I’ll say this about a squib kick meaning better field position -  it’s possible, but when I envision Buffalo trying a squib, I’m not picturing a half-legged bouncer to the 35. I’m thinking Bass still should have put his leg into it, but hit it at a low angle so it still would be fielded at the 10, but without a chance for a fair catch, plus the possibility of some Buffalo friendly bounces. 

People are getting lost in the term squib kick. The intent isn't a short kick; rather the intent is to run clock. The ball needed to be kicked to force a return. Whether it was a squib kick (down to teh 20) or mortar kick made little difference as a long as it forced the Chiefs to return it. That would have run a minimum of 6 seconds off the clock.