Buffalo Safety-Damar Hamlin is awake and **Bills at Bengals** Game has been Canceled (2 Viewers)

[Ministry of Pain]

Rookie Safety Rodney Thomas visited him in the hospital
It was the last entry I saw here

January 4, 2023 The latest updates on NFL star Damar Hamlin's condition

Buffalo Bills safety Damar Hamlin, 24, remains in critical condition but is showing "signs of improvement" after suffering cardiac arrest mid-game on Monday night, his team said.

www.cnn.com

Thomas said he held Hamlin's hand and spoke to him.

"I know he could hear me," Thomas said. "Even if he couldn't hear me, it didn't matter. I said what I had to say."

Thomas met Hamlin at Central Catholic High School in Pittsburgh where the two were teammates and also became close friends, according to the Colts website. Thomas said he and Hamlin talked every day and even spoke before Monday's game.

Gets me a little choked up reading this part

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Can’t remember if I saw this idea on this thread or on the bengals forum I go to but to me it seems to be the most fair and least disruptive. Admittedly I’m a bengals fan and was at the game so may be blinded by my bias but would love to hear your thoughts.

According to the betting websites, at that point in the game the bengals had a 57% chance to win. Get 100 ping pong balls, 57 in orange and 43 in blue. Mix them up and pick one. That team is the winner and the other is the loser. Game is decided with no schedule interruptions, taking into account what had happened up to that point in the game, and with as little screwing over of all teams as possible. Everyone still has a chance at all seeds, ravens still have a chance at the north division, kc doesn’t get an unfair advantage nor screwed out of a possible 1 seed. Buffalo still gets a chance at the 1 seed and a chance to keep the 2 even if they lose this weekend. The bengals get a chance at the 1 or the 2 seed and even have a shot to end up as the wildcard. All of those things are exactly as they would have been if one of the two teams won Monday night. With no pushing back the playoffs or making teams play on short rest or getting an extra bye.

Thoughts?

It's better than calling it a no-contest, and gifting the Chiefs the #1 seed.

 

[Rubi]

Can’t remember if I saw this idea on this thread or on the bengals forum I go to but to me it seems to be the most fair and least disruptive. Admittedly I’m a bengals fan and was at the game so may be blinded by my bias but would love to hear your thoughts.

According to the betting websites, at that point in the game the bengals had a 57% chance to win. Get 100 ping pong balls, 57 in orange and 43 in blue. Mix them up and pick one. That team is the winner and the other is the loser. Game is decided with no schedule interruptions, taking into account what had happened up to that point in the game, and with as little screwing over of all teams as possible. Everyone still has a chance at all seeds, ravens still have a chance at the north division, kc doesn’t get an unfair advantage nor screwed out of a possible 1 seed. Buffalo still gets a chance at the 1 seed and a chance to keep the 2 even if they lose this weekend. The bengals get a chance at the 1 or the 2 seed and even have a shot to end up as the wildcard. All of those things are exactly as they would have been if one of the two teams won Monday night. With no pushing back the playoffs or making teams play on short rest or getting an extra bye.

Thoughts?

It's better than calling it a no-contest, and gifting the Chiefs the #1 seed.

Sorry if I'm a little wary of ping pong balls. To paraphrase The McGuire Sisters...."....that's how my number came up and I was gone in the draft..." Kids you can google The McGuire Sisters. And draft for that matter.

 

[rockaction]

Sorry if I'm a little wary of ping pong balls. To paraphrase The McGuire Sisters...."....that's how my number came up and I was gone in the draft..." Kids you can google The McGuire Sisters. And draft for that matter.

I guess I've never really listened that closely to "Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy From Company B" because I had no idea that was in the lyrics. I guess I only know the chorus.

He makes the company jump when he plays reveille
He's the boogie woogie bugle boy of Company B

 

[LawFitz]

This was an act of God and should be treated as such. Cancel the game altogether and focus on healing what's most important, which is first and by far foremost, Damar Hamlin, and his family, friends, teammates and coaches.

After that football will be football, but let's not act like it's the end of the world if a team doesn't get a chance at the #1 seed when they otherwise would have. If you are such a big dawg go on the road and prove it.

End of the world is your son, family member, friend, teammate, player lying in a hospital and unable to lift lids. Even then, the world doesn't end, although it certainly feels like it. Prayers to Damar and all his peeps.

 

[BobbyLayne]

GoFundMe for Chasing M's Community Toy Drive is up to $6.959,480

Original goal (this was setup when he was still in college) was $2500

Spoiler: Top Donors

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UPDATE from the family

We're simply awestruck by the level of support and generosity we've seen over the past two days. With over $6 million raised, this fundraiser has become an overnight reminder of the incredible nature of humankind. Your actions directly reflect the type of human Damar is himself.

As representatives of Damar, the team at Jaster Athletes posted the fundraiser updates and will work with the Hamlin family, The Chasing M's Foundation, and the GoFundMe team to ensure the safe delivery of funds.

Because the situation is evolving, we'll continue to communicate any updates on the fundraiser. We will also work with GoFundMe to email all donors with more specifics regarding the use of funds as those details are available. As you can imagine, this has been a challenging time for the family. We appreciate your understanding as we give them the time and space they need to focus on Damar's health first.

We're hopeful about Damar's future involvement in disbursing the incredibly generous contributions. We thank you again for your support and look forward to updating you along the way.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I can't wait for the lotto type show featuring the arrival of the ping pong balls.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I can't wait for the lotto type show featuring the arrival of the ping pong balls.

The big problem with the ping-pong-balls and coin-flip solutions is that the NFL won't just do it and be done with it. The ping pong ball selection will be a 90 minute prime time event featuring a documentary of Damar Hamlin's youth and football years. The evening will culminate in Hamlin's family being drug on stage to select the ping pong ball. It will be insufferable.

 

[Anarchy99]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

I saw this too, and I have no objection to it. Speaking selfishly as a Bills fan, this is my second-most-preferred outcome, with my most preferred outcome being declaring the Bills the winner of week 17. There's a very high likelihood that this would give the Bills the inside track on the #1 seed heading into the final week of the season. It's much more friendly to us than a simple 50-50 coin flip. It's so friendly to the Bills that I'm reluctant to advocate for it because it feels life self-dealing when the situation calls for everybody to be an adult and live with a little inequity.

 

[BassNBrew]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

If the NFL does this I really feel like I would done at least with this season.

 

[Godsbrother]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

If the NFL does this I really feel like I would done at least with this season.

Seems like a bizarre solution, especially potentially throwing out head-to-head games. Personally I feel that if after week 18 you still don't have clarity then you just treat CIN-BUF-KC as all having the same records and go with the NFL tiebreaking rules which are clearly laid out, which would include head-to-head (except of course CIN-BUF)

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

If the NFL does this I really feel like I would done at least with this season.

Seems like a bizarre solution, especially potentially throwing out head-to-head games. Personally I feel that if after week 18 you still don't have clarity then you just treat CIN-BUF-KC as all having the same records and go with the NFL tiebreaking rules which are clearly laid out, which would include head-to-head (except of course CIN-BUF)

This is reasonable too. Off the top of my head, it would push KC to the #3 seed since they lost to both the Bills and Bengals, and that strikes me as totally fair. I don't honestly know who would win a tiebreaker between the Bills and Bengals. We both have one non-conference loss, so that doesn't help. What's next? Strength of schedule or strength of victory or something?

 

[Anarchy99]

If the NFL does this I really feel like I would done at least with this season.

Seems like a bizarre solution, especially potentially throwing out head-to-head games. Personally I feel that if after week 18 you still don't have clarity then you just treat CIN-BUF-KC as all having the same records and go with the NFL tiebreaking rules which are clearly laid out, which would include head-to-head (except of course CIN-BUF)

This is reasonable too. Off the top of my head, it would push KC to the #3 seed since they lost to both the Bills and Bengals, and that strikes me as totally fair. I don't honestly know who would win a tiebreaker between the Bills and Bengals. We both have one non-conference loss, so that doesn't help. What's next? Strength of schedule or strength of victory or something?

If the BUF-CIN game were declared a no contest, and BUF lost to NE while CIN beats BAL, CIN would hold the tiebreaker (assuming the league sticks with the traditional tiebreaker rules).

 

[ChiefD]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

If the NFL does this I really feel like I would done at least with this season.

Seems like a bizarre solution, especially potentially throwing out head-to-head games. Personally I feel that if after week 18 you still don't have clarity then you just treat CIN-BUF-KC as all having the same records and go with the NFL tiebreaking rules which are clearly laid out, which would include head-to-head (except of course CIN-BUF)

This is reasonable too. Off the top of my head, it would push KC to the #3 seed since they lost to both the Bills and Bengals, and that strikes me as totally fair. I don't honestly know who would win a tiebreaker between the Bills and Bengals. We both have one non-conference loss, so that doesn't help. What's next? Strength of schedule or strength of victory or something

Except the Chiefs as it currently sits has one less loss than the Bengals. So at the least that should play into it.

I honestly don't care how they resolve this. Someone in the grand scheme of things won't think the result is fair, but this event has proven that life isn't fair sometimes. I don't like the idea of the league randomly throwing out one of the Chiefs games, because we know good and well they will screw that up somehow, because there is no way that would be a fair decision since no doubt they would do that behind closed doors.

To me, you play out this weekend and whatever the records say (in the loss column), let the chips fall where they may in terms of current tiebreakers.

 

[jabarony]

Can’t remember if I saw this idea on this thread or on the bengals forum I go to but to me it seems to be the most fair and least disruptive. Admittedly I’m a bengals fan and was at the game so may be blinded by my bias but would love to hear your thoughts.

According to the betting websites, at that point in the game the bengals had a 57% chance to win. Get 100 ping pong balls, 57 in orange and 43 in blue. Mix them up and pick one. That team is the winner and the other is the loser. Game is decided with no schedule interruptions, taking into account what had happened up to that point in the game, and with as little screwing over of all teams as possible. Everyone still has a chance at all seeds, ravens still have a chance at the north division, kc doesn’t get an unfair advantage nor screwed out of a possible 1 seed. Buffalo still gets a chance at the 1 seed and a chance to keep the 2 even if they lose this weekend. The bengals get a chance at the 1 or the 2 seed and even have a shot to end up as the wildcard. All of those things are exactly as they would have been if one of the two teams won Monday night. With no pushing back the playoffs or making teams play on short rest or getting an extra bye.

Thoughts?

Add a white ball or two to account for a tie!

 

[renesauz]

Hate to say this...but I can't and won't trust statements from family members saying he's improving. There have been ZERO specifics on how. (Sorry, lowering oxygen on the vent from 100 to 50 is NOT a real improvement) The rookie in the article above talks about "I know he could hear me".

I have seen/treated/dealt with several hundred significant cardiac arrests and their families. Families, especially those with zero medical experience and/or lower levels of education, will often grab hold of any insignificant little positive thing and claim progress from it. The patient wasn't moving at all yesterday and today he's moving...that progress! Even after you explain that the movement is consistent with anoxic jerking, or posturing, and actually is a bad sign they'll refuse to believe...choosing instead that the patient hears them and is simply reacting to their voice...it's not posturing, he's holding my hand (btw....grasping a hand is a basic reflex that infants do from birth...LETTING GO when asked to is the real progress.)

Families making overly generic statements of "progress" are inherently untrustworthy to me. If he's not waking up and making PURPOSEFUL movements, not recognizing folks by later today or early tomorrow...there's a significant chance he won't ever.

 

[amnesiac]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

imo, I can't see them randomly throwing out a game or doing a coin flip or doing ping pong balls.

all of those would be made up on the spot, and they would have to get buy-in from all 32 clubs.

they are well within the current rules to declare a "no contest" and then go by win percentage.

that's why i still think that's the most likely outcome.

but it is the NFL and sometimes they just make stuff up.

 

[Anarchy99]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

imo, I can't see them randomly throwing out a game or doing a coin flip or doing ping pong balls.

all of those would be made up on the spot, and they would have to get buy-in from all 32 clubs.

they are well within the current rules to declare a "no contest" and then go by win percentage.

that's why i still think that's the most likely outcome.

but it is the NFL and sometimes they just make stuff up.

The special circumstances rules spell out that the commissioner is the sole authority and arbitrator to determine a resolution. Basically, Goodell can do whatever the heck he wants, whether there’s any logic to his decision or not.

 

[amnesiac]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

imo, I can't see them randomly throwing out a game or doing a coin flip or doing ping pong balls.

all of those would be made up on the spot, and they would have to get buy-in from all 32 clubs.

they are well within the current rules to declare a "no contest" and then go by win percentage.

that's why i still think that's the most likely outcome.

but it is the NFL and sometimes they just make stuff up.

The special circumstances rules spell out that the commissioner is the sole authority and arbitrator to determine a resolution. Basically, Goodell can do whatever the heck he wants, whether there’s any logic to his decision or not.

sorry, yes you are probably correct. i did not dive that far into the rule book.

i guess i meant they will have a harder time getting the teams to go along with something they are making up on the spot vs. something that's already "on the books."

 

[BassNBrew]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

imo, I can't see them randomly throwing out a game or doing a coin flip or doing ping pong balls.

all of those would be made up on the spot, and they would have to get buy-in from all 32 clubs.

they are well within the current rules to declare a "no contest" and then go by win percentage.

that's why i still think that's the most likely outcome.

but it is the NFL and sometimes they just make stuff up.

The special circumstances rules spell out that the commissioner is the sole authority and arbitrator to determine a resolution. Basically, Goodell can do whatever the heck he wants, whether there’s any logic to his decision or not.

This is why I see them expanding the playoffs to be "fair" and get the Patriots in.

 

[Anarchy99]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

imo, I can't see them randomly throwing out a game or doing a coin flip or doing ping pong balls.

all of those would be made up on the spot, and they would have to get buy-in from all 32 clubs.
oe a "no contest" and then go by win percentage.

that's why i still think that's the most likely outcome.

but it is the NFL and sometimes they just make stuff up.

The special circumstances rules spell out that the commissioner is the sole authority and arbitrator to determine a resolution. Basically, Goodell can do whatever the heck he wants, whether there’s any logic to his decision or not.

sorry, yes you are probably correct. i did not dive that far into the rule book.

i guess i meant they will have a harder time getting the teams to go along with something they are making up on the spot vs. something that's already "on the books."

I hear ya, and I agree that the best outcome would be to follow an existing rule rather than make stuff up. They had the perfect way to handle things, as the rules also state that games not played or completed as scheduled need to be played / replayed / finished by the end of Wednesday . . . and they ignored their own rule. Bottom line, at this point, there is no completely fair, just, or logical way to resolve the situation that all parties involved will think is a reasonable conclusion. The question then becomes which team(s) are going to have to take it on the chin and how badly.

 

[Anarchy99]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

imo, I can't see them randomly throwing out a game or doing a coin flip or doing ping pong balls.

all of those would be made up on the spot, and they would have to get buy-in from all 32 clubs.

they are well within the current rules to declare a "no contest" and then go by win percentage.

that's why i still think that's the most likely outcome.

but it is the NFL and sometimes they just make stuff up.

The special circumstances rules spell out that the commissioner is the sole authority and arbitrator to determine a resolution. Basically, Goodell can do whatever the heck he wants, whether there’s any logic to his decision or not.

This is why I see them expanding the playoffs to be "fair" and get the Patriots in.

I don't fully understand the concept of expanding the playoffs to allow another team in (unless that was an example of them being totally illogical). The BUF-CIN game mostly involves seeding for BUF-KC-CIN-BAL. There would be no need to add another team. One of NE-MIA-PIT will get in based on the outcome of Week 18 (unless you are suggesting BUF doesn't play against NE, which I agree would open up a totally different can of worms).

 

[BassNBrew]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

imo, I can't see them randomly throwing out a game or doing a coin flip or doing ping pong balls.

all of those would be made up on the spot, and they would have to get buy-in from all 32 clubs.

they are well within the current rules to declare a "no contest" and then go by win percentage.

that's why i still think that's the most likely outcome.

but it is the NFL and sometimes they just make stuff up.

The special circumstances rules spell out that the commissioner is the sole authority and arbitrator to determine a resolution. Basically, Goodell can do whatever the heck he wants, whether there’s any logic to his decision or not.

This is why I see them expanding the playoffs to be "fair" and get the Patriots in.

I don't fully understand the concept of expanding the playoffs to allow another team in (unless that was an example of them being totally illogical). The BUF-CIN game mostly involves seeding for BUF-KC-CIN-BAL. There would be no need to add another team. One of NE-MIA-PIT will get in based on the outcome of Week 18 (unless you are suggesting BUF doesn't play against NE, which I agree would open up a totally different can of worms).

Was suggesting that changing motivations could impact tiebreakers and cost a team a berth. Also adding another team does away with the biggest advantage of being the one seed.

 

[Godsbrother]

I don't fully understand the concept of expanding the playoffs to allow another team in (unless that was an example of them being totally illogical). The BUF-CIN game mostly involves seeding for BUF-KC-CIN-BAL. There would be no need to add another team. One of NE-MIA-PIT will get in based on the outcome of Week 18 (unless you are suggesting BUF doesn't play against NE, which I agree would open up a totally different can of worms).

Indeed it would. If either Miami or Pittsburgh wins they would have the same record as New England but the Patriots ninth win would come as a result of a forfeit. Ugly situation but I would be really surprised if the Bills refuse to play Week 18.

 

[BassNBrew]

Are the Bengals refunding fans if the game is canceled?

From ticketmaster....

Full refunds will be available if a game is canceled and it cannot be replayed, or if it is played under conditions that prohibit fans from attending. If a game is postponed or rescheduled, your tickets may be valid for the new date, so hang onto them and we will keep you posted. In addition to our standard Purchase Policy, our Supplemental Terms apply. Please also note that additional ticket terms and conditions of the applicable NFL club apply. Please refer to the applicable club’s website and/or the ticket itself to review those ticket terms and conditions.

 

[menobrown]

The latest news on Hamlin is massively postive. Neurologically intact, eyes open for first time. He's still got a ways to go but those who personally know him must be relieved beyond words.

And not to be callous but as this relates to football I believe this will be the positive news the Bills team needed to move forward with playing the game of football.

 

[matttyl]

Hamlin squeezing the hands of those close to him. Huge, positive news - from Rappaport.

 

[Doug B]

The latest news on Hamlin is massively postive. Neurologically intact, eyes open for first time.

Just wanted to give a link.

 

[zeeshan2]

[Rapoport] #Bills S Damar Hamlin opened his eyes last night and is responsive. Truly incredible. One thing that's very clear from speaking to those close to him: They are endlessly appreciative of the medical care given to Hamlin on the field immediately, then over the last 72 hours.

 

[Doug B]

... it's not posturing, he's holding my hand (btw....grasping a hand is a basic reflex that infants do from birth...LETTING GO when asked to is the real progress ...

@renesauz and @growlers , @Terminalxylem , and anyone else who might know:

This hasn't been reported yet, but with his eyes now open, Hamlin's caregivers and family might start noticing him tracking people in the room with his eyes. Would this be a meaningful development? Or does it have to be done on command (e.g. 'follow this light')?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Hate to say this...but I can't and won't trust statements from family members saying he's improving. There have been ZERO specifics on how. (Sorry, lowering oxygen on the vent from 100 to 50 is NOT a real improvement) The rookie in the article above talks about "I know he could hear me".

I have seen/treated/dealt with several hundred significant cardiac arrests and their families. Families, especially those with zero medical experience and/or lower levels of education, will often grab hold of any insignificant little positive thing and claim progress from it. The patient wasn't moving at all yesterday and today he's moving...that progress! Even after you explain that the movement is consistent with anoxic jerking, or posturing, and actually is a bad sign they'll refuse to believe...choosing instead that the patient hears them and is simply reacting to their voice...it's not posturing, he's holding my hand (btw....grasping a hand is a basic reflex that infants do from birth...LETTING GO when asked to is the real progress.)

Families making overly generic statements of "progress" are inherently untrustworthy to me. If he's not waking up and making PURPOSEFUL movements, not recognizing folks by later today or early tomorrow...there's a significant chance he won't ever.

I understand how you feel Rene

When I read "I know he can hear me" there was a moment where I thought he'll never wake up or he'll be permanently paralyzed in some way
But just him opening his eyes, that felt like a big step IMHO, and I know nothing about medical care except as a fundraiser thru UM-Sylvester Cancer Center
I'm around a lot of medical folks all the time but obviously I don't wear a white coat.

I'm happy that his condition does not seem to have worsen and he has received top notch medical care, most NFL athletes should but he had medics on him in seconds

 

[Ministry of Pain]

@Bracie Smathers started a new thread

BUF FS Damar Hamlin thread

He deserves a separate thread.

forums.footballguys.com

Everyone is welcome over there and of course we can still update anything related to the possible rescheduling of the game in here. I'll try to update the title

I would like to compliment the Shark Pool
I know folks were trying to point fingers at things they didn't like to read
But I felt most have been very respectful
We haven't seen much like this in the past
The timing of it had a lot to do with millions needing round the clock updates

The last game of FF for tens of thousands of leagues if not more
Chance for things to get super salty
Good Job Sharks!
Thanks for the links, posts, good vibes, honesty and all the rest

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

imo, I can't see them randomly throwing out a game or doing a coin flip or doing ping pong balls.

all of those would be made up on the spot, and they would have to get buy-in from all 32 clubs.

they are well within the current rules to declare a "no contest" and then go by win percentage.

that's why i still think that's the most likely outcome.

but it is the NFL and sometimes they just make stuff up.

If this were Colts-Texans, would we be discussing making the game up? What if it were Bills-Texans? What if it were two teams that each had like a 1% chance of making the playoffs?

I know that MLB does the thing where they only make up late-season rainouts if the game will impact the standings. And I get that this is an extraordinary situation, so it may require some sort of ad hoc solution. But I think it is in the league's long-term interest in having a "clean" resolution that does not set a disruptive precedent the next time something like this happens. Since one is available in this situation, I think they should take advantage of it.

One thing I will say: While I don't support blowing up the playoff schedule, if they do decide to move forward with it, the fairest alternative I've heard is the one where Week 18 proceeds regularly, Week 19 is Bills-Bengals + NFC wildcard (with the other AFC playoff teams on bye), Week 20 is AFC wildcard/NFC on bye, and then on to championship games and Super Bowl, with no bye week in between. There are still elements of unfairness there; the Eagles and potentially Chiefs could get two consecutive bye weeks, which might be a good or a bad thing (rust vs. rest). And the benefit of the bye for the No. 1 seed is lessened when other teams get one, too. But at least it doesn't tip the competitive balance within a conference.

 

[jm192]

... it's not posturing, he's holding my hand (btw....grasping a hand is a basic reflex that infants do from birth...LETTING GO when asked to is the real progress ...

@renesauz and @growlers , @Terminalxylem , and anyone else who might know:

This hasn't been reported yet, but with his eyes now open, Hamlin's caregivers and family might start noticing him tracking people in the room with his eyes. Would this be a meaningful development? Or does it have to be done on command (e.g. 'follow this light')?

I'm a Hospitalist at a fairly large community hospital that doesn't have dedicated Critical Care physicians. We are almost always the primary attendings on patients with Cardiac arrest--unless it's from a massive heart attack.

If you think about all that is involved in the ability to follow a command.

You have to hear it. You have to understand it. You have to tell your hand to do something. Your hand has to actually do it.
He's probably looking at them already.

Neurologically, they're probably about ready to try him off of the ventilator. Not clear what the "lung damage" was. Maybe that was clarified in a report that I missed. Hopefully we'll hear more massively positive updates through the weekend.

 

[Anarchy99]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

imo, I can't see them randomly throwing out a game or doing a coin flip or doing ping pong balls.

all of those would be made up on the spot, and they would have to get buy-in from all 32 clubs.

they are well within the current rules to declare a "no contest" and then go by win percentage.

that's why i still think that's the most likely outcome.

but it is the NFL and sometimes they just make stuff up.

If this were Colts-Texans, would we be discussing making the game up? What if it were Bills-Texans? What if it were two teams that each had like a 1% chance of making the playoffs?

I know that MLB does the thing where they only make up late-season rainouts if the game will impact the standings. And I get that this is an extraordinary situation, so it may require some sort of ad hoc solution. But I think it is in the league's long-term interest in having a "clean" resolution that does not set a disruptive precedent the next time something like this happens. Since one is available in this situation, I think they should take advantage of it.

One thing I will say: While I don't support blowing up the playoff schedule, if they do decide to move forward with it, the fairest alternative I've heard is the one where Week 18 proceeds regularly, Week 19 is Bills-Bengals + NFC wildcard (with the other AFC playoff teams on bye), Week 20 is AFC wildcard/NFC on bye, and then on to championship games and Super Bowl, with no bye week in between. There are still elements of unfairness there; the Eagles and potentially Chiefs could get two consecutive bye weeks, which might be a good or a bad thing (rust vs. rest). And the benefit of the bye for the No. 1 seed is lessened when other teams get one, too. But at least it doesn't tip the competitive balance within a conference.

It's been all over sports talk that a lot of things led to heightened awareness of the on-field incident and the subsequent rallying around the players and teams afterwards. If the same thing happened on a 1:00 PM Sunday game between the Colts and Texans, not many people would have seen it play out live, the game would likely stand no chance to be rescheduled, and the only thing impacted would be the draft order for next year. It would still have been a shocking development, but it would not have been national front-page news, nor would the league have tried to figure out how to handle things so delicately for the remainder of the week. Some people even wondered if they would have stopped the game or if they would have just finished up then and there. I can't speak to that, but it's an interesting question. If it wasn't such an important game, the only one being broadcast at the time, in primetime, to a national audience, it probably would not have received the attention it got. It would have been just as tragic, but it may not have had the same impact.

 

[Da Guru]

This is still too early to tell. I friend of mine had a cardiac arrest and was in pretty much the same situation for weeks. At times he would grab his wife`s hand or eyes would open and close and they would get excited, but he was far from out of the woods.

All you can hope for is a little steady progress day to day. These situations are very fluid in terms of ups and downs.

 

[Miro Z]

If they cancel the game the key thing is if they keep the stats that did happen or will everything just be erased like it never happened. Ie is the game formally being abandoned (but what happened stands) or annuled? It matters because with the former Burrow's TD stands, with the latter it doesn't.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

imo, I can't see them randomly throwing out a game or doing a coin flip or doing ping pong balls.

all of those would be made up on the spot, and they would have to get buy-in from all 32 clubs.

they are well within the current rules to declare a "no contest" and then go by win percentage.

that's why i still think that's the most likely outcome.

but it is the NFL and sometimes they just make stuff up.

If this were Colts-Texans, would we be discussing making the game up? What if it were Bills-Texans? What if it were two teams that each had like a 1% chance of making the playoffs?

I know that MLB does the thing where they only make up late-season rainouts if the game will impact the standings. And I get that this is an extraordinary situation, so it may require some sort of ad hoc solution. But I think it is in the league's long-term interest in having a "clean" resolution that does not set a disruptive precedent the next time something like this happens. Since one is available in this situation, I think they should take advantage of it.

One thing I will say: While I don't support blowing up the playoff schedule, if they do decide to move forward with it, the fairest alternative I've heard is the one where Week 18 proceeds regularly, Week 19 is Bills-Bengals + NFC wildcard (with the other AFC playoff teams on bye), Week 20 is AFC wildcard/NFC on bye, and then on to championship games and Super Bowl, with no bye week in between. There are still elements of unfairness there; the Eagles and potentially Chiefs could get two consecutive bye weeks, which might be a good or a bad thing (rust vs. rest). And the benefit of the bye for the No. 1 seed is lessened when other teams get one, too. But at least it doesn't tip the competitive balance within a conference.

It's been all over sports talk that a lot of things led to heightened awareness of the on-field incident and the subsequent rallying around the players and teams afterwards. If the same thing happened on a 1:00 PM Sunday game between the Colts and Texans, not many people would have seen it play out live, the game would likely stand no chance to be rescheduled, and the only thing impacted would be the draft order for next year. It would still have been a shocking development, but it would not have been national front-page news, nor would the league have tried to figure out how to handle things so delicately for the remainder of the week. Some people even wondered if they would have stopped the game or if they would have just finished up then and there. I can't speak to that, but it's an interesting question. If it wasn't such an important game, the only one being broadcast at the time, in primetime, to a national audience, it probably would not have received the attention it got. It would have been just as tragic, but it may not have had the same impact.

@IvanKaramazov and myself were discussing this yesterday and I felt awkward asking the question at the time but I agree 100%, no way a 1:00 Sunday game between a couple of non factor teams would have been brushed under the rug a bit and we wouldn't have multiple discussions going on.

I guess that might be the positive part of this if there is one, player safety for at least 1 week went to the front of the discussions around the country. Will anything actually change? Not sure but it appears like the NFL is going to come out smelling like a rose because it put their first responders in the stadium on full display and I think most feel they were superheroes

They saved a man's life, were able to resuscitate him not once but perhaps twice on the field, rushed to a University Hospital with cutting edge technology, the NFL is under a microscope on this stuff and so far it looks like they are doing about as well as anyone could hope in terms of providing medical care.

But yeah, 1:00 game Sunday we are not this deep in discussion about a variety of things related to the Damar Hamlin injury.

 

[menobrown]

If they cancel the game the key thing is if they keep the stats that did happen or will everything just be erased like it never happened. Ie is the game formally being abandoned (but what happened stands) or annuled? It matters because with the former Burrow's TD stands, with the latter it doesn't.

I can’t say with a 100% degree of certainty but if the game is not re-scheduled it will likely be labeled as a no-contest and no stats for this game will ever officially exist.

 

[Doug B]

This is still too early to tell. I friend of mine had a cardiac arrest and was in pretty much the same situation for weeks. At times he would grab his wife`s hand or eyes would open and close and they would get excited, but he was far from out of the woods.

This makes me curious as to what actions would be seen as signs that Hamlin is "out of the woods" (not to say 100% back to normal). Does it have to get to the point where he's able to get out of bed and walk around under his own power, or is there something that would be seen as "out of the woods" even if he were still bed-bound?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Latest update: appears to be neurologically intact.

On-field medical personal saved his life.

Fantastic news all around.

https://twitter.com/rgiii/status/1611040367083651076?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

 

[Anarchy99]

Not to take a big sidebar, but Bill Belicheck today remembered a 1997 game in which he was coaching with the Jets where DET LB Reggie Brown required on-field CPR. Does anyone remember that?
Here's the play. Here's an article.

 

[ChiefD]

Not to take a big sidebar, but Bill Belicheck today remembered a 1997 game in which he was coaching with the Jets where DET LB Reggie Brown required on-field CPR. Does anyone remember that?
Here's the play. Here's an article.

Wow, what an article. That poor trainer for the Lions:

Falb, unfortunately, had previous experience with tragedy on the football field as he was the Lions trainer when Mike Utley suffered a paralyzing injury in 1991 as well as 20 years earlier when Lions receiver Chuck Hughes suffered a heart attack and is the only player in NFL history to die during a game.

Thanks for posting that.

 

[Doug B]

Not to take a big sidebar, but Bill Belicheck today remembered a 1997 game in which he was coaching with the Jets where DET LB Reggie Brown required on-field CPR. Does anyone remember that?
Here's the play. Here's an article.

I actually don't remember that, and I'm a little surprised about it -- I remember Mike Utley, Dennis Byrd, and several college players. But not Reggie Brown.

From reading that article, I learned that longtime Lions trainer was on hand for Chuck Hughes' 1971 on-field heart attack, for Mike Utley, and for Reggie Brown.

...

I can't tell from the links, but I am betting that 1997 Jets @ Lions game was completed. There was about 11:40 to go in the fourth when Brown was carried off.

 

[Anarchy99]

Well, I take back what I posted earlier. Apparently, adding an 8th playoff team to the AFC is actually on the table. They are trying to figure out seeding, advantages, the bye, etc. One option is to add an 8th team to eliminate the bye for this year, and it sounds like all 8 teams would play the first weekend.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Well, I take back what I posted earlier. Apparently, adding an 8th playoff team to the AFC is actually on the table. They are trying to figure out seeding, advantages, the bye, etc. One option is to add an 8th team to eliminate the bye for this year, and it sounds like all 8 teams would play the first weekend.

It would be very NFL-like to pick the most convoluted solution possible when there are many straightforward solutions that could have been implemented 48 hours ago.

 

[Da Guru]

This is still too early to tell. I friend of mine had a cardiac arrest and was in pretty much the same situation for weeks. At times he would grab his wife`s hand or eyes would open and close and they would get excited, but he was far from out of the woods.

This makes me curious as to what actions would be seen as signs that Hamlin is "out of the woods" (not to say 100% back to normal). Does it have to get to the point where he's able to get out of bed and walk around under his own power, or is there something that would be seen as "out of the woods" even if he were still bed-bound?

In these situations, I am not sure. I would think when the medical staff announces they are happy with the way things are trending.

There are so many levels to this. The one thing that has to be a plus is Hamlin was only 24 and in great physical shape. So his recovery hopefully will be steady.

My buddy was 48 and not in good shape.

 

[Anarchy99]

Not to take a big sidebar, but Bill Belicheck today remembered a 1997 game in which he was coaching with the Jets where DET LB Reggie Brown required on-field CPR. Does anyone remember that?
Here's the play. Here's an article.

I actually don't remember that, and I'm a little surprised about it -- I remember Mike Utley, Dennis Byrd, and several college players. But not Reggie Brown.

From reading that article, I learned that longtime Lions trainer was on hand for Chuck Hughes' 1971 on-field heart attack, for Mike Utley, and for Reggie Brown.

...

I can't tell from the links, but I am betting that 1997 Jets @ Lions game was completed. There was about 11:40 to go in the fourth when Brown was carried off.

Given that every NFL game that started had been completed since 1935, it's safe to say that the game did finish. But to be thorough, I looked it up. Here is the box score.

 

[Doug B]

This is still too early to tell. I friend of mine had a cardiac arrest and was in pretty much the same situation for weeks. At times he would grab his wife`s hand or eyes would open and close and they would get excited, but he was far from out of the woods.

This makes me curious as to what actions would be seen as signs that Hamlin is "out of the woods" (not to say 100% back to normal). Does it have to get to the point where he's able to get out of bed and walk around under his own power, or is there something that would be seen as "out of the woods" even if he were still bed-bound?

In these situations, I am not sure. I would think when the medical staff announces they are happy with the way things are trending.

Some of the medical folks in this thread might be able to share their opinions. Maybe it's things like holding conversations (even if haltingly), drinking/eating (generally, swallowing safely and un-aided), or things like that.