Caitlin Clark’s rookie salary is $76,000 (1 Viewer)

[Kev4029]

A couple other thoughts...

1. This is a hugely white, middle-aged, male population. Generally, this board isn't the prime demographic that the WNBA needs to attract to get some excitement going - old white dudes will get on board as the culture around women's sports changes.
2. The WNBA needs to get the Taurasi's of the league to be supportive of the young talent rather than **** all over them. Help build the excitement rather than diminish it.
3. The league, mostly as a result of ESPN's coverage the last 2-3 years from what I can tell, seems to be gaining some interest. Hopefully they can take this crop of rookies (the most marketable class in wnba history) and snowball some of the interest.
4. There has been some talking here about quality of play, which is a fair criticism, but it's also partially a result of the system. Similar to the NBA of yesteryear, there isn't enough money to support the coaching/travel/training/development needs of the league to be competitive with any men's pro sports. The average NBA player has the access to year round trainers, cooks, dieticians, coaches, etc. that just isn't possible with the money involved in the WNBA. There is a huge cycle of economic cause and effect that makes men's basketball a better product than women's basketball, beyond some of the intrinsic built in advantages the NBA has (longer history, increased size and athleticism, etc.).
5. In a few of the comments here, you can see why women blame sexism for many problems women have in the work force. Comparing a woman's ability to make more money with Onlyfans (which, side note, very few women continue doing because the money sucks for most of them) to a man's ability to make more money in a sport is not a great look.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

As a reformed degenerate gambler who no longer uses off-shore books, do the Draft Kings and Fanduels offer up as much wagering opportunities as the NBA? My hunch says "no". Just went to DK and saw no WNBA futures wagers.

Promote fantasy WNBA leagues and increase wagering options on the game. Get idiots like me hooked.

Related: I'd like to start a WNBA dynasty fantasy league. Entry fee $100. Cap at 10 teams. Takers? I'll start a thread tomorrow if there's any interest....

DK appears to have a Brazilian women’s professional basketball game available for betting right now…

Edit: DK also has championship odds for all teams and over/unders for all teams. Fever at 21.5.

 

[Kev4029]

Lol my daughter is so typical! She just texted me that she saw on TikTok that Clark is getting $76,000, it’s being discussed by everyone she knows, it’s totally unfair, part of the “Patriarchy”, etc., etc. Apparently it’s blowing up social media.

I asked her three questions: (1) Has she ever watched a WNBA game? (2) Can she name a WNBA player? (3) Can she name a WNBA team? I guessed the answers to the first 2 would be no, but I thought she at least might be able to name the Sparks. The answers to all 3 were no.

Bill Burr explains this pretty well.....(obviously some NSFW language) If women as a whole supported the WNBA by putting their eyeballs on the screen (consistently) or their butts in the seats, they'd make more money. But there's probably more women in the studio at the Bachelor Finale show than there is at most regular season WNBA games. If women supported WNBA players with 2% of the enthusiasm with which they support Taylor Swift, this "problem" .

Worse yet, we are seeing what current WNBA players and former WBNA players are saying about Clark. Instead of realizing that this was probably one of the best draft classes they have seen in a while as a whole and that the league could really use this to actually make $$, they are choosing to to run Clark down because of jealously and bitterness.

this doesn’t seem unique to women’s sports. Pros in all sports disrespect younger players.

The NBA has been remarkably good about building up the younger players. The NBA has more stewards of the game than any other pro sports - guys like Allen Iverson and Kobe (the two biggest personalities from me growing up with basketball) were/are always talking up the new dudes.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Lol my daughter is so typical! She just texted me that she saw on TikTok that Clark is getting $76,000, it’s being discussed by everyone she knows, it’s totally unfair, part of the “Patriarchy”, etc., etc. Apparently it’s blowing up social media.

I asked her three questions: (1) Has she ever watched a WNBA game? (2) Can she name a WNBA player? (3) Can she name a WNBA team? I guessed the answers to the first 2 would be no, but I thought she at least might be able to name the Sparks. The answers to all 3 were no.

Bill Burr explains this pretty well.....(obviously some NSFW language) If women as a whole supported the WNBA by putting their eyeballs on the screen (consistently) or their butts in the seats, they'd make more money. But there's probably more women in the studio at the Bachelor Finale show than there is at most regular season WNBA games. If women supported WNBA players with 2% of the enthusiasm with which they support Taylor Swift, this "problem" .

Worse yet, we are seeing what current WNBA players and former WBNA players are saying about Clark. Instead of realizing that this was probably one of the best draft classes they have seen in a while as a whole and that the league could really use this to actually make $$, they are choosing to to run Clark down because of jealously and bitterness.

this doesn’t seem unique to women’s sports. Pros in all sports disrespect younger players.

The NBA has been remarkably good about building up the younger players. The NBA has more stewards of the game than any other pro sports - guys like Allen Iverson and Kobe (the two biggest personalities from me growing up with basketball) were/are always talking up the new dudes.

I suppose there is some truth to that, but a lot of the former players in the media obviously diss younger players and seems like they were more that way even when they were playing. I still don’t really think it has anything to do with sex.

 

[TLEF316]

A couple other thoughts...


5. In a few of the comments here, you can see why women blame sexism for many problems women have in the work force. Comparing a woman's ability to make more money with Onlyfans (which, side note, very few women continue doing because the money sucks for most of them) to a man's ability to make more money in a sport is not a great look.

Agreed that the Onlyfans comments aren't super helpful. But hell.....lets just look at regular models.

Per wikipedia for 2022, these were the top earners......

1 Kendall Jenner United States $40 million
2 Gisele Bündchen Brazil $33 million
3 Rosie Huntington-Whiteley United Kingdom $32 million
4 Cara Delevigne United Kingdom $31 million
5 Adriana Lima Brazil $30 million

Harder to find specific data for men....but appears that even the very top earners barely clear 7 figures.

And the reasons for the gap are probably pretty much the same as basketball, just reversed. MOST men care about high end fashion about as much as MOST women care about sports. And most men probably aren't flocking to buy products endorsed by/produced by whoever the hell today's top male model is (apparently some dude named Sean O'Pry) the way women buy products from Kendall Jenner or Giselle.

Is it FAIR? Kinda seems like it. Its what the market supports.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Lol my daughter is so typical! She just texted me that she saw on TikTok that Clark is getting $76,000, it’s being discussed by everyone she knows, it’s totally unfair, part of the “Patriarchy”, etc., etc. Apparently it’s blowing up social media.

I asked her three questions: (1) Has she ever watched a WNBA game? (2) Can she name a WNBA player? (3) Can she name a WNBA team? I guessed the answers to the first 2 would be no, but I thought she at least might be able to name the Sparks. The answers to all 3 were no.

Bill Burr explains this pretty well.....(obviously some NSFW language) If women as a whole supported the WNBA by putting their eyeballs on the screen (consistently) or their butts in the seats, they'd make more money. But there's probably more women in the studio at the Bachelor Finale show than there is at most regular season WNBA games. If women supported WNBA players with 2% of the enthusiasm with which they support Taylor Swift, this "problem" would be solved.

"Women failed the WNBA" - Bill Burr

www.youtube.com

Bill Burr nails it every single time. And is always hysterical when doing so.

This was the first thing I thought of when i saw this thread.

People are complaining that the WNBA players are not getting the same percentage of the revenue as their NBA counterparts. but if they wanted the same percentage compensation, they would actually OWE $75k per player to the league. It has lost money every year and the NBA makes up the difference to keep it around.

They draw zero fans, but I like GM's idea that they should have put these teams in smaller markets. I know Denver isn't considered a small market, but we have rabid fans here for every one of our teams. Heck, the Rockies have one of the highest attendance and they suck year in and year out.

I am not trying to make this controversial or make a generalization, but (as Burr suggested) women simply don't support other women. They make up like 53% of our population and the WNBA stadiums are empty. Worse yet, we are seeing what current WNBA players and former WBNA players are saying about Clark. Instead of realizing that this was probably one of the best draft classes they have seen in a while as a whole and that the league could really use this to actually make $$, they are choosing to to run Clark down because of jealously and bitterness.

That being said the Fever could be competitive this year. They have Boston last year's ROY as their center.

Agreed. The criticism of her by prominent women in the sport has been absurd. They are finally getting some attention, and their reaction is to go out of their way to try and take down the woman who is obviously the reason why the public at large cares at all about women's basketball now. When salaries for all of them inevitably go up in a few years thanks to improved ratings thanks to Clark, they should all be dropping to their knees and thanking her...but don't hold your breath.

 

[dickey moe]

I'm not sure if lowering the rim would help anything. I don't need to see them dunk to get me to watch. You know what would?

Adding a 4-point line. You've got one of the best long range shooters entering your sport, why not lean into it? Market like crazy a Sabrina Ionescu vs Caitlin Clark game with the new 4-point line and man, THAT would be fun to watch.

7 foot rim, 50 foot court, pop-a-shot ball, 12 second shot clock, traveling legal, only super egregious fouls called, subs-on-the-fly like hockey.

And male cheerleaders.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Lol my daughter is so typical! She just texted me that she saw on TikTok that Clark is getting $76,000, it’s being discussed by everyone she knows, it’s totally unfair, part of the “Patriarchy”, etc., etc. Apparently it’s blowing up social media.

I asked her three questions: (1) Has she ever watched a WNBA game? (2) Can she name a WNBA player? (3) Can she name a WNBA team? I guessed the answers to the first 2 would be no, but I thought she at least might be able to name the Sparks. The answers to all 3 were no.

Bill Burr explains this pretty well.....(obviously some NSFW language) If women as a whole supported the WNBA by putting their eyeballs on the screen (consistently) or their butts in the seats, they'd make more money. But there's probably more women in the studio at the Bachelor Finale show than there is at most regular season WNBA games. If women supported WNBA players with 2% of the enthusiasm with which they support Taylor Swift, this "problem" would be solved.

"Women failed the WNBA" - Bill Burr

www.youtube.com

Bill Burr nails it every single time. And is always hysterical when doing so.

This was the first thing I thought of when i saw this thread.

People are complaining that the WNBA players are not getting the same percentage of the revenue as their NBA counterparts. but if they wanted the same percentage compensation, they would actually OWE $75k per player to the league. It has lost money every year and the NBA makes up the difference to keep it around.

They draw zero fans, but I like GM's idea that they should have put these teams in smaller markets. I know Denver isn't considered a small market, but we have rabid fans here for every one of our teams. Heck, the Rockies have one of the highest attendance and they suck year in and year out.

I am not trying to make this controversial or make a generalization, but (as Burr suggested) women simply don't support other women. They make up like 53% of our population and the WNBA stadiums are empty. Worse yet, we are seeing what current WNBA players and former WBNA players are saying about Clark. Instead of realizing that this was probably one of the best draft classes they have seen in a while as a whole and that the league could really use this to actually make $$, they are choosing to to run Clark down because of jealously and bitterness.

That being said the Fever could be competitive this year. They have Boston last year's ROY as their center.

Agreed. The criticism of her by prominent women in the sport has been absurd. They are finally getting some attention, and their reaction is to go out of their way to try and take down the woman who is obviously the reason why the public at large cares at all about women's basketball now. When salaries for all of them inevitably go up in a few years thanks to improved ratings thanks to Clark, they should all be dropping to their knees and thanking her...but don't hold your breath.

It’s probably been mentioned in here but I’ve thought the Taurasi/Bird criticism of Clark was likely a calculated marketing ploy to drive interest. We’ve all know for decades now that controversy like this drives public interest. It’s similar to the manufactured Clark/Reese rivalry. It’s way more interesting than rival players who only talk about respect and admiration for each other.

 

[The Z Machine]

OK, that was misogynistic, so I'll delete.

 

[Desert_Power]

Obviously, Clark is the driver here, but it's a star-studded group of rookies in general. The women's tournament was so much more interesting than the men's this year.
Cardoso and Reese going to Chicago made me think about ordering a Sky jersey.

It'l be interesting to see what happens if Clark struggles early on. And it would make sense that she should struggle early on.
She's gonna go from playing 18 year olds to grown women in less than a month.

A lot of talent coming into the league. Saw Paige is staying in college though.

 

[Jayrod]

Obviously, Clark is the driver here, but it's a star-studded group of rookies in general. The women's tournament was so much more interesting than the men's this year.
Cardoso and Reese going to Chicago made me think about ordering a Sky jersey.

It'l be interesting to see what happens if Clark struggles early on. And it would make sense that she should struggle early on.
She's gonna go from playing 18 year olds to grown women in less than a month.

A lot of talent coming into the league. Saw Paige is staying in college though.

She is probably the best bet to piggy back off of the Clark mania in the NCAA. If UCONN can avoid being decimated by injury, they have a good shot at a national championship. She can probably make a comparable income with NIL deals and get another year of college paid for. Seems like a very good decision for her plus avoids this year's loaded draft. With a good season, she could land as the #1 pick next year.

 

[titusbramble]

The WNBA was losing tons of cash for the longest time but the NBA kept it going. If they start getting more fans I think salaries will increase

If the league makes more money the players will bargain for more, yes.

If the players weren't collectively bargaining, Clark would be making slightly more than $76k/year

 

[bcat01]

Now Joe Biden and Russell Wilson are calling for higher pay. Maybe they could buy a team and pay them what they think is fair.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'm not even going to dance around it - I didn't care when Megan Rapinoe complained about it and I don't care in this context either.

We're talking about entertainment here. People vote with their money. Fields like education, medicine, law, just about anything else where you're an employee? Sure, equal pay for equal work.

But that's the thing - in entertainment the work isn't equal because it isn't equally desirable by the market.

 

[belljr]

I'm not even going to dance around it - I didn't care when Megan Rapinoe complained about it and I don't care in this context either.

We're talking about entertainment here. People vote with their money. Fields like education, medicine, law, just about anything else where you're an employee? Sure, equal pay for equal work.

But that's the thing - in entertainment the work isn't equal because it isn't equally desirable by the market.

Womens soccer at least had a bit better argument as their ratings were better than the mens. But we don't need to rehash all of that now.

Until the revenue can be brought in its really not an argument

 

[need2know]

who is caitlin clark?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

It's readily apparent that we need to spend just SOME time in school teaching supply and demand and where money actually comes from and what it represents.

Huge numbers of people simply do not understand the absolute basics of economics. Tangentially that's why we have such a debt problem, both personal and public IMO.

 

[gianmarco]

who is caitlin clark?

Username checks out.

 

[eoMMan]

who is caitlin clark?

She’s not the transgender former Olympian who was married to the one Kardashian.

 

[The Z Machine]

who is caitlin clark?

A GoAT

 

[parasaurolophus]

My wife has never watched a WNBA game. We have watched countless NBA and mens NCAA games together. This was the first year she tuned into watch the womens final four with me.

None of her friends watched.

When we went to vegas and ate at the vanderpump restaurant and we actually saw lisa, the texts went on for hours in her group chat.

If this changes, the league will make money. If not it will continue as a charity and we can expect the same amount of complaining about lack of awareness, fairness, etc.

WNBA needs fans, not whiny activists.

 

[Desert_Power]

Obviously, Clark is the driver here, but it's a star-studded group of rookies in general. The women's tournament was so much more interesting than the men's this year.
Cardoso and Reese going to Chicago made me think about ordering a Sky jersey.

It'l be interesting to see what happens if Clark struggles early on. And it would make sense that she should struggle early on.
She's gonna go from playing 18 year olds to grown women in less than a month.

A lot of talent coming into the league. Saw Paige is staying in college though.

She is probably the best bet to piggy back off of the Clark mania in the NCAA. If UCONN can avoid being decimated by injury, they have a good shot at a national championship. She can probably make a comparable income with NIL deals and get another year of college paid for. Seems like a very good decision for her plus avoids this year's loaded draft. With a good season, she could land as the #1 pick next year.

Yeah. It's great to see her back out there after the ACL. I imagine she will be pushed quite a bit by the media this year.

Gamecocks still loaded though.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

It's readily apparent that we need to spend just SOME time in school teaching supply and demand and where money actually comes from and what it represents.

Huge numbers of people simply do not understand the absolute basics of economics. Tangentially that's why we have such a debt problem, both personal and public IMO.

I'm certain most people understand the simple concepts driving this and that the current kerfluffle is purely a social media look at me event that will be gone in a couple of days.

 

[GregR]

Quick Google says that the NBA brings in 10 billion and WNBA brings in about 200 million.

Pay seems about right.

She is going to clean up in endorsements, a very fun player to watch. Rest of WNBA I'm not so sure. Personally watched a few of her college games, I don't think I will make a point to watch her as a pro but is the first player in that league that I would consider checking out.

TV show covering it just said NBA has $8 billion in profit. WNBA lost $10 million.

 

[The General]

Quick Google says that the NBA brings in 10 billion and WNBA brings in about 200 million.

Pay seems about right.

She is going to clean up in endorsements, a very fun player to watch. Rest of WNBA I'm not so sure. Personally watched a few of her college games, I don't think I will make a point to watch her as a pro but is the first player in that league that I would consider checking out.

TV show covering it just said NBA has $8 billion in profit. WNBA lost $10 million.

WNBA players are def paid appropriately at the moment. People arguing this clearly pandering for the hot take / clickbait.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I'm not even going to dance around it - I didn't care when Megan Rapinoe complained about it and I don't care in this context either.

We're talking about entertainment here. People vote with their money. Fields like education, medicine, law, just about anything else where you're an employee? Sure, equal pay for equal work.

But that's the thing - in entertainment the work isn't equal because it isn't equally desirable by the market.

Womens soccer at least had a bit better argument as their ratings were better than the mens. But we don't need to rehash all of that now.

Until the revenue can be brought in its really not an argument

While it is a bit of apples and oranges here (US Soccer pay structure has no correlation to club pay, a better analogy is comparing NWSL salaries to MLS salaries), it is a very sad and yet I guess predictable outcome that after the women fought tooth and nail for equal pay from US Soccer, and proclaimed massive victory when they got it, they ended up off worse (and potentially SIGNIFICANTLY worse) than when they started financially.

 

[hagmania]

The WNBA was losing tons of cash for the longest time but the NBA kept it going. If they start getting more fans I think salaries will increase

If the league makes more money the players will bargain for more, yes.

If the players weren't collectively bargaining, Clark would be making slightly more than $76k/year

I don't think that's up for debate. Agreed.

 

[NewlyRetired]

- I had NO idea there were only 12 teams. Gun to my head, I would have told you there were 20 teams last night.

Over the years, a massive 11 teams either folded or moved. With out following it even casually, it would be easy for some one to assume there were many more teams just due to the various cities that have had teams over the years that no longer have them.

MLS and the WNBA started 1 year apart in the 90's. MLS started with 10 teams and the WNBA started with 8.

By 2025, the WNBA will have only grown to 13 teams, where as MLS will be at 30 teams.

The WNBA has to experience some growth. But to get that growth, there needs to be investment from the owners. There have been billions of dollars invested into MLS teams in the form of infrastructure over the years that spurred their massive growth and yet the WNBA still feels like it is only around to fill some open dates in arenas that are other wise have low usage in the summer.

 

[Gally]

There have been billions of dollars invested into MLS teams in the form of infrastructure over the years that spurred their massive growth

Was the MLS losing money from the start? Did this "billions of dollars" invested turn around a league that was losing money? Or were they making money and kept putting that profit into development to grow it more?

The answer to that is a big distinction that could answer why the leagues have been run differently.

ETA: I have no idea as I have never followed MLS so I am genuinely asking the question

 

[Summer Wheat]

A couple other thoughts...

1. This is a hugely white, middle-aged, male population. Generally, this board isn't the prime demographic that the WNBA needs to attract to get some excitement going - old white dudes will get on board as the culture around women's sports changes.
2. The WNBA needs to get the Taurasi's of the league to be supportive of the young talent rather than **** all over them. Help build the excitement rather than diminish it.
3. The league, mostly as a result of ESPN's coverage the last 2-3 years from what I can tell, seems to be gaining some interest. Hopefully they can take this crop of rookies (the most marketable class in wnba history) and snowball some of the interest.
4. There has been some talking here about quality of play, which is a fair criticism, but it's also partially a result of the system. Similar to the NBA of yesteryear, there isn't enough money to support the coaching/travel/training/development needs of the league to be competitive with any men's pro sports. The average NBA player has the access to year round trainers, cooks, dieticians, coaches, etc. that just isn't possible with the money involved in the WNBA. There is a huge cycle of economic cause and effect that makes men's basketball a better product than women's basketball, beyond some of the intrinsic built in advantages the NBA has (longer history, increased size and athleticism, etc.).
5. In a few of the comments here, you can see why women blame sexism for many problems women have in the work force. Comparing a woman's ability to make more money with Onlyfans (which, side note, very few women continue doing because the money sucks for most of them) to a man's ability to make more money in a sport is not a great look.

Don`t forget they need old black dudes who only watch the men's game to get on board as well to change the culture.

I enjoy watching the women play once in awhile, but have to admit I don`t go out of my way to watch. It is all about what kind of revenue they can produce. Have to admit the games are slower and not as athletic, much like minor league sports and the XFL. There is a reason those sports do not pay as much as they just don`t generate the revenue. Same with the WNBA. Unless they get a huge TV deal the salaries will be low.

 

[Rich Conway]

after the women fought tooth and nail for equal pay from US Soccer, and proclaimed massive victory when they got it, they ended up off worse (and potentially SIGNIFICANTLY worse) than when they started financially.

I remember the suit and them winning. Can you explain how they ended up worse off? To be clear, I'm not disagreeing, I'm just unfamiliar with what occurred after.

 

[NewlyRetired]

There have been billions of dollars invested into MLS teams in the form of infrastructure over the years that spurred their massive growth

Was the MLS losing money from the start? Did this "billions of dollars" invested turn around a league that was losing money? Or were they making money and kept putting that profit into development to grow it more?

The answer to that is a big distinction that could answer why the leagues have been run differently.

ETA: I have no idea as I have never followed MLS so I am genuinely asking the question

MLS was bleeding money from every orifice in the beginning (as most new sports leagues do).

Things got so bad that the owners voted to shutter the entire league in 2001. They were literally just waiting until the next day to inform the bankers and issue the press release. Lamar Hunt convinced only two owners to hang on (Anschuntz and Kraft). The three of them effectively bought out the remaining owners and carried the league for many years on their back running at a low investment level.

The massive investments came well after this moment. Only Hunt was willing to spend money on infrastructure during this time period.

 

[Todem]

How much revenue is generated by the WNBA compared to the NBA?

NBA makes about $10B a year, with teams worth about $2.9B on average. The WNBA makes about $60M per year, but that’s expected to grow rapidly with the new faces entering that league.

That said, the NBA makes over 150x more than the WNBA currently.

End of discussion.

The math is the math. And I don't think the WNBA in our lifetime will ever sniff or come close to anything like the NBA.

The product is......extremely meh in comparison.

Where as Women's tennis is fantastic and I enjoy watching them play a lot more then the men.

It's about what looks really good when you watch. The gracefulness and competitiveness of women's tennis is amazing.

Basketball? Hey it's only my own opinion but I can't watch past 5 minutes of women's basketball. It just does not do anything for me.

And that's why her salary is what it is. They don't generate the sane revenue.

 

[Gally]

The massive investments came well after this moment. Only Hunt was willing to spend money on infrastructure during this time period.

So was this the chicken or the egg? Meaning, they limped along for awhile after the buyouts to the point they started getting closer to making money and then the influx of money came in? Or were they still hemorrhaging money and investors starting sending in billions hoping it would turn around and then it did?

Reason I am asking is because part of the discussion has centered around WNBA/NBA/Womens Sports in general not really spending money to make money and if they would it would bring the fans/support and therefore money to sustain themselves. I am on the side that I don't think spending more money will change things long term. I think the product isn't good enough for a large following. So while and influx of more marketing (like the NCAA for Clark this year) will increase viewership short term while everyone checks out the hype......long term the overall product won't be good enough to sustain it in most cases. I could be wrong and hope that I am for the sake of these leagues but I just don't see the product as good enough...right now or the near future.

 

[NewlyRetired]

after the women fought tooth and nail for equal pay from US Soccer, and proclaimed massive victory when they got it, they ended up off worse (and potentially SIGNIFICANTLY worse) than when they started financially.

I remember the suit and them winning. Can you explain how they ended up worse off? To be clear, I'm not disagreeing, I'm just unfamiliar with what occurred after.

Note that the US Women lost the suit. Their case was thrown out of court multiple times. The deal that was finally made between US Soccer and the USWNT was settled out of court once the women lost some of their leverage.

There were two key items in play, salary and bonus's:

1) US Soccer was paying the club salaries of the players (something US Soccer did not do for them me as they never could have afforded it). Because US Soccer was paying the club salaries for the women, they paid them less for the time playing for the national team as compared to what they paid the men. However, the total money US Soccer was paying the women was actually MORE than what they were paying the men but the women fought because they did not believe the club salaries US Soccer was paying them should be factored in. The courts sided with US Soccer. Once the club salaries were removed from the equation (and rightfully returned to the NWSL teams to pay them), US Soccer immediately made the pay for the national teams identical.

2) A big part of the women's case was about the unfairness in the bonus structure for playing in the WC. US Soccer has no say in how FIFA determines the bonus structure for playing in a WC and again the courts agreed with them.

As you might expect, FIFA's bonuses for playing in the men's WC is far bigger than playing in the women's WC. US Soccer simply said there was nothing they could do. The US men's team solved the problem for US Soccer by agreeing with the women to split all bonuses both teams received from the WC equally. Every one was happy but this is where it gets VERY interesting. In a move no one could have predicted given FIFA's general misogynistic stance on women's soccer over the years, FIFA announed they were going to MASSIVELY increase the bonus structure for the Womens WC. You can probably see where this is going, but the further you go in a WC, the higher the bonus's paid by FIFA. It is going to be far more likely for the US Women to go very deep into a WC than then men. What this will now result in is the men actually benefitting from the new bonus split where as it was suppose to have been a coup for the women.

 

[NewlyRetired]

The massive investments came well after this moment. Only Hunt was willing to spend money on infrastructure during this time period.

So was this the chicken or the egg? Meaning, they limped along for awhile after the buyouts to the point they started getting closer to making money and then the influx of money came in? Or were they still hemorrhaging money and investors starting sending in billions hoping it would turn around and then it did?

It is an excellent question.

I am sure the owners saw the fundamentals starting to turn in a positive direction. Once the fundamentals turned, teams that at one time were given away almost for free as expansion teams were commanding significantly increasing money. This expansion money fueled a lot of the initial growth.

This also pretty much also lined up with some teams getting the initial stadiums built. Once the initial wave of stadium building was complete, the fundamentals took a MASSIVE shift in the positive direction as all the owners finally saw the potential and this is when the wallets really opened up.

Thanks in part to the massive investment in infrastructure, MLS now (and I still shake my head about this), has teams that are valued over $1 billion dollars, when less than 20 years ago, they could not give away a team for free.

 

[Gally]

This also pretty much also lined up with some teams getting the initial stadiums built. Once the initial wave of stadium building was complete, the fundamentals took a MASSIVE shift in the positive direction as all the owners finally saw the potential and this is where the wallets really opened up.

Sounds like this is a function of a new "product" start up costs causing the "business" to be in the red for quite some time while the product started to take hold. Once the initial outlay (stadium money/etc) started being paid off and the product started bringing in customers the "companies" re-invested to grow the product and it took off. Seems like a normal buisiness process. Weather the storm for the start and have enough capital to stay a float until the product is accepted by customers to start making money.

WNBA has shown it doesn't have the product to bring customer's in. They didn't even have to "weather the storm" with arena capital and initial start up investment because the NBA floated it. The fact the product hasn't been good enough to bring in a growing customer base should be evident now since it's not doing well. Will the incoming rookies change that? Maybe, but I don't think so. The game is still not entertaining enough even with the influx in talent.

 

[offdee]

I know absolutely zero about the WNBA. Last night I was getting ESPN alerts on my phone as the picks were chosen, but I noticed they stopped after about the first dozen or so. I was surprised to learn that after googling that's because there's only 12 teams in the league, so the first round was over. And there's only 36 players chosen total.

As to Clark - she must really want to continue to be ambassador for women's hoops because didn't she turn down millions to play in the Big3 league...

BIG3's contract wouldn't have impacted her ability to play in the WNBA, they explicitly said that she wouldn't have to choose between the leagues, she could play in both.

She’s smart not to do the Big 3…she would’ve been shut down and exposed thoroughly. No way could she compete against men ex pros, and no way would any of those guys let a woman cook them. It would’ve been embarrassing for her and women’s sports.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I know absolutely zero about the WNBA. Last night I was getting ESPN alerts on my phone as the picks were chosen, but I noticed they stopped after about the first dozen or so. I was surprised to learn that after googling that's because there's only 12 teams in the league, so the first round was over. And there's only 36 players chosen total.

As to Clark - she must really want to continue to be ambassador for women's hoops because didn't she turn down millions to play in the Big3 league...

BIG3's contract wouldn't have impacted her ability to play in the WNBA, they explicitly said that she wouldn't have to choose between the leagues, she could play in both.

She’s smart not to do the Big 3…she would’ve been shut down and exposed thoroughly. No way could she compete against men ex pros, and no way would any of those guys let a woman cook them. It would’ve been embarrassing for her and women’s sports.

You're surely right on this, but I was looking at the Big3 a while back when this was floated and there are some old dudes in that league. Lots of guys who are deep into their 40's. Abdul-Rauf is no longer active but he played Big3 into his 50s a couple years ago. Cutino Mobley is almost 50 and is captain of the Power. I think Clark could probably get an open look against a few of these dudes. Greg Oden was playing in the Big3 a couple years ago.

 

[Kev4029]

I know absolutely zero about the WNBA. Last night I was getting ESPN alerts on my phone as the picks were chosen, but I noticed they stopped after about the first dozen or so. I was surprised to learn that after googling that's because there's only 12 teams in the league, so the first round was over. And there's only 36 players chosen total.

As to Clark - she must really want to continue to be ambassador for women's hoops because didn't she turn down millions to play in the Big3 league...

BIG3's contract wouldn't have impacted her ability to play in the WNBA, they explicitly said that she wouldn't have to choose between the leagues, she could play in both.

She’s smart not to do the Big 3…she would’ve been shut down and exposed thoroughly. No way could she compete against men ex pros, and no way would any of those guys let a woman cook them. It would’ve been embarrassing for her and women’s sports.

You're surely right on this, but I was looking at the Big3 a while back when this was floated and there are some old dudes in that league. Lots of guys who are deep into their 40's. Abdul-Rauf is no longer active but he played Big3 into his 50s a couple years ago. Cutino Mobley is almost 50 and is captain of the Power. I think Clark could probably get an open look against a few of these dudes. Greg Oden was playing in the Big3 a couple years ago.

Not that I think she would be a raging success offensively, but the defensive end is where she would get crushed. Imagine somebody like Mobley taking her into the post. He only has her by like 3 or 4 inches, but probably 60+ lbs.

 

[The Z Machine]

It's readily apparent that we need to spend just SOME time in school teaching supply and demand and where money actually comes from and what it represents.

Huge numbers of people simply do not understand the absolute basics of economics. Tangentially that's why we have such a debt problem, both personal and public IMO.

I'm certain most people understand the simple concepts driving this and that the current kerfluffle is purely a social media look at me event that will be gone in a couple of days.

I think it also underscores the weakness of a collective bargaining agreement for "generational talents" like Clark. She should be commanding a higher salary than the standard for a rookie.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

It's readily apparent that we need to spend just SOME time in school teaching supply and demand and where money actually comes from and what it represents.

Huge numbers of people simply do not understand the absolute basics of economics. Tangentially that's why we have such a debt problem, both personal and public IMO.

I'm certain most people understand the simple concepts driving this and that the current kerfluffle is purely a social media look at me event that will be gone in a couple of days.

I think it also underscores the weakness of a collective bargaining agreement for "generational talents" like Clark. She should be commanding a higher salary than the standard for a rookie.

I get that and agree but remember that most of these players supplement their income by playing in Europe every offseason. Britney Griner wasn't alone in that. Diana Taurasi is the all time WNBA scoring leader and has 3 WNBA Championship rings, multiple MVP's etc. and during that time she also has won the Russian National League 7 times, won 6 EuroLeague championships, won the Turkish league and Turkish Cup. I could see some exception in the CBA for a marketing bonus for Clark but can't see any way they could get her up into the NBA minimum range.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I know absolutely zero about the WNBA. Last night I was getting ESPN alerts on my phone as the picks were chosen, but I noticed they stopped after about the first dozen or so. I was surprised to learn that after googling that's because there's only 12 teams in the league, so the first round was over. And there's only 36 players chosen total.

As to Clark - she must really want to continue to be ambassador for women's hoops because didn't she turn down millions to play in the Big3 league...

BIG3's contract wouldn't have impacted her ability to play in the WNBA, they explicitly said that she wouldn't have to choose between the leagues, she could play in both.

She’s smart not to do the Big 3…she would’ve been shut down and exposed thoroughly. No way could she compete against men ex pros, and no way would any of those guys let a woman cook them. It would’ve been embarrassing for her and women’s sports.

You're surely right on this, but I was looking at the Big3 a while back when this was floated and there are some old dudes in that league. Lots of guys who are deep into their 40's. Abdul-Rauf is no longer active but he played Big3 into his 50s a couple years ago. Cutino Mobley is almost 50 and is captain of the Power. I think Clark could probably get an open look against a few of these dudes. Greg Oden was playing in the Big3 a couple years ago.

Not that I think she would be a raging success offensively, but the defensive end is where she would get crushed. Imagine somebody like Mobley taking her into the post. He only has her by like 3 or 4 inches, but probably 60+ lbs.

I've never actually seen any Big3 action, but my guess is they don't play much defense. Here's Abdul-Rauf taking on Gilbert Arenas a few years ago: https://youtu.be/GI37VLRoTVo?si=_u29an8y-nehsHEc

 

[massraider]

I think it also underscores the weakness of a collective bargaining agreement for "generational talents" like Clark. She should be commanding a higher salary than the standard for a rookie.

Meh. She gets her money in endorsements. They could triple her salary, it wouldn't be noticeable for her.

I watched the Iowa/LSU game with a buddy, first time I've watched a game in probably 15 years.

it was good basketball, lot of motion, lot of movement, much faster than I remember. It's a much better game than it used to be.

The NBA shouldn't be the goal. Get to European basketball level. Then maybe MLS. People look a bit stupid to me when they start making these comps.

 

[Phil Elliott]

The owners could pay the players more. But the league is competing for your entertainment dollar and it comes down to revenue vs cost. It's not an issue of fair/unfair or what do the players 'deserve'.

 

[Kev4029]

I know absolutely zero about the WNBA. Last night I was getting ESPN alerts on my phone as the picks were chosen, but I noticed they stopped after about the first dozen or so. I was surprised to learn that after googling that's because there's only 12 teams in the league, so the first round was over. And there's only 36 players chosen total.

As to Clark - she must really want to continue to be ambassador for women's hoops because didn't she turn down millions to play in the Big3 league...

BIG3's contract wouldn't have impacted her ability to play in the WNBA, they explicitly said that she wouldn't have to choose between the leagues, she could play in both.

She’s smart not to do the Big 3…she would’ve been shut down and exposed thoroughly. No way could she compete against men ex pros, and no way would any of those guys let a woman cook them. It would’ve been embarrassing for her and women’s sports.

You're surely right on this, but I was looking at the Big3 a while back when this was floated and there are some old dudes in that league. Lots of guys who are deep into their 40's. Abdul-Rauf is no longer active but he played Big3 into his 50s a couple years ago. Cutino Mobley is almost 50 and is captain of the Power. I think Clark could probably get an open look against a few of these dudes. Greg Oden was playing in the Big3 a couple years ago.

Not that I think she would be a raging success offensively, but the defensive end is where she would get crushed. Imagine somebody like Mobley taking her into the post. He only has her by like 3 or 4 inches, but probably 60+ lbs.

I've never actually seen any Big3 action, but my guess is they don't play much defense. Here's Abdul-Rauf taking on Gilbert Arenas a few years ago: https://youtu.be/GI37VLRoTVo?si=_u29an8y-nehsHEc

It's old dudes play halfcourt, of course defense isn't on the forefront, but with all of that space with only 6 people on the court, it would be the easiest offense ever to just run pick and rolls at her over and over.

 

[Mister CIA]

It's readily apparent that we need to spend just SOME time in school teaching supply and demand and where money actually comes from and what it represents.

Huge numbers of people simply do not understand the absolute basics of economics. Tangentially that's why we have such a debt problem, both personal and public IMO.

I'm certain most people understand the simple concepts driving this and that the current kerfluffle is purely a social media look at me event that will be gone in a couple of days.

I think it also underscores the weakness of a collective bargaining agreement for "generational talents" like Clark. She should be commanding a higher salary than the standard for a rookie.

Thanks a lot, Jamarcus. - Caitlin Clark, probably.

 

[Gally]

The owners could pay the players more. But the league is competing for your entertainment dollar and it comes down to revenue vs cost. It's not an issue of fair/unfair or what do the players 'deserve'.

The league is losing money as it is. Sure they could pay them more but then they would be losing even more money. Not sure that makes sense.

 

[FairWarning]

It's readily apparent that we need to spend just SOME time in school teaching supply and demand and where money actually comes from and what it represents.

Huge numbers of people simply do not understand the absolute basics of economics. Tangentially that's why we have such a debt problem, both personal and public IMO.

I'm certain most people understand the simple concepts driving this and that the current kerfluffle is purely a social media look at me event that will be gone in a couple of days.

I think it also underscores the weakness of a collective bargaining agreement for "generational talents" like Clark. She should be commanding a higher salary than the standard for a rookie.

Players like her ruin leagues though because she could throw the salary structure out of whack.

 

[TennesseeJed]

It's readily apparent that we need to spend just SOME time in school teaching supply and demand and where money actually comes from and what it represents.

Huge numbers of people simply do not understand the absolute basics of economics. Tangentially that's why we have such a debt problem, both personal and public IMO.

I'm certain most people understand the simple concepts driving this and that the current kerfluffle is purely a social media look at me event that will be gone in a couple of days.

I think it also underscores the weakness of a collective bargaining agreement for "generational talents" like Clark. She should be commanding a higher salary than the standard for a rookie.

I think that has always been the case with sports unions - the voting members are mostly journeymen - and the goal is to protect their wages - not the superstar wages.

When there is a fixed pot - union member want to ensure there is enough money for the guys(and gals) in the league for a few years - and that means limiting salaries elsewhere.