Can We Civilly Discuss Thoughts On Vaccination? A Poll. (1 Viewer)

[Insein]

I find the complete opposite of this to be true. People that most closely align with my worldview on politics and pandemics are people I want to be friends with. Sure, there is a spectrum, but I find rabid anti-vaxxers to be the type of folks that I want to spend as little time with as possible

And I find radical authoritarians to be a very cult like group of people that I would also like to avoid. Luckily most of the people I interact with are much different than the internet personas I deal with daily. 

 

[tonydead]

I guess that's a bridge too far for some of you.  I consider it common sense and polite.    Every sniffle?  No.   If your kid is coming over to play, I have flu symptoms or or symptoms related to covid?  I would tell you.      I would do the same for anything else I would consider outside the norm or for that parents would like to decide for their own kids - ie I have pets, especially ones that might me skiddish, I bought a gun,  hell - I ask before giving kids anything besides water when they are playing around the house.    

So not as dramatic as insein liked to paint it, but yeah - I prefer myself and and my kids to interact with people who treat us the same way and give us the same considerations.  

It's your fear to manage.  You can't put that on to everyone else, it's not my job to manage all your fears for you.

I was going to list a bunch of other irrational fears to help prove my point, but, I see you did that for me.

Maybe you can make a questionnaire for parents to fill out before you let their kids play with yours?  

 

[the moops]

It's your fear to manage.  You can't put that on to everyone else, it's not my job to manage all your fears for you.

I was going to list a bunch of other irrational fears to help prove my point, but, I see you did that for me.

Maybe you can make a questionnaire for parents to fill out before you let their kids play with yours?  

If you had flu or covid like symptons and were invited over to a friend's house, what would you do?

 

[Insein]

It's your fear to manage.  You can't put that on to everyone else, it's not my job to manage all your fears for you.

I was going to list a bunch of other irrational fears to help prove my point, but, I see you did that for me.

Maybe you can make a questionnaire for parents to fill out before you let their kids play with yours?  

I do think if you are generally sick, it would be common courtesy to let someone know before sending their kids over. That's a general rule not really Covid related. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

I do think if you are generally sick, it would be common courtesy to let someone know before sending their kids over. That's a general rule not really Covid related. 

Correct, and they have done so in the past... but not for covid. 

 

[Insein]

Correct, and they have done so in the past... but not for covid. 

And like I said, I think that is less to do with being stubborn and more to do with fear of losing you as a friend. But you know them better than I obviously. So only you can really tell if that's the case. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

It's your fear to manage.  You can't put that on to everyone else, it's not my job to manage all your fears for you.

I was going to list a bunch of other irrational fears to help prove my point, but, I see you did that for me.

Maybe you can make a questionnaire for parents to fill out before you let their kids play with yours?  

Again, doing the same #### that insein was.  

No, I don't need a questionnaire.   Guns are the ones I would guess people don't bother with.  I was saying I would if I had one, and I have had parents tell me as well.    Like others have said, I consider it a general courtesy to inform people if I am sick or others in the family and their family could get it.  I tell people general things like our pet situation.   

i am not living in fear or deathly afraid to interact with neighbors or whatever silly leap you guys are going to tag me with.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

And like I said, I think that is less to do with being stubborn and more to do with fear of losing you as a friend. But you know them better than I obviously. So only you can really tell if that's the case. 

We are not friends, we are neighbors.  i am polite to them,, but we don't hang out.  The kids mingle around a bit, and my dad helps  them out,  that's about it.  

like I said, just annoyed they said something in the past, but not this time.  

 

[moleculo]

What the hell kind of world are we living in where people who are concerned about the well being of society in general are branded "radical authoritarians"?

 

[jobarules]

It's your fear to manage.  You can't put that on to everyone else, it's not my job to manage all your fears for you.

I was going to list a bunch of other irrational fears to help prove my point, but, I see you did that for me.

Maybe you can make a questionnaire for parents to fill out before you let their kids play with yours?  

This is ridiculous. It's common courtesy to tell someone you are feeling sick if you plan on interacting with them, irregardless of covid, flu, common cold, or stomach virus.

 

[tonydead]

Again, doing the same #### that insein was.  

No, I don't need a questionnaire.   Guns are the ones I would guess people don't bother with.  I was saying I would if I had one, and I have had parents tell me as well.    Like others have said, I consider it a general courtesy to inform people if I am sick or others in the family and their family could get it.  I tell people general things like our pet situation.   

i am not living in fear or deathly afraid to interact with neighbors or whatever silly leap you guys are going to tag me with.  

You were worried about giving kids things other than water.  You need a questionnaire.  Must be hell living in fear like that.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

What the hell kind of world are we living in where people who are concerned about the well being of society in general are branded "radical authoritarians"?

One where it is selfish to be considerate of others.

 

[JIslander]

You were worried about giving kids things other than water.  You need a questionnaire.  Must be hell living in fear like that.

Do you have kids?

 

[tonydead]

If you had flu or covid like symptons and were invited over to a friend's house, what would you do?

If I'm sick enough I wouldn't feel like going and stay home.  Otherwise I go, as long as I didn't have to fill out a questionnaire first.

 

[kface]

This is ridiculous. It's common courtesy to tell someone you are feeling sick if you plan on interacting with them, irregardless of covid, flu, common cold, or stomach virus.

It's hard to believe this is even an argument in here.  The things these people argue about it.  This is a basic tenant of being a human in a society.  I've never seen someone so casually admit something so insanely selfish.  Unbelievable.  

 

[the moops]

If I'm sick enough I wouldn't feel like going and stay home.  Otherwise I go, as long as I didn't have to fill out a questionnaire first.

Why are you making this conversation so hostile?

 

[tonydead]

Why are you making this conversation so hostile?

I answered your question as simply and directly as possible.  No hostile intention at all.  Why are you so sensitive?

 

[KarmaPolice]

You were worried about giving kids things other than water.  You need a questionnaire.  Must be hell living in fear like that.

Sorry, I don't decide things for other parents.  Not my job, and I think it's pretty inconsiderate.    The kids running around are kids - of course they ask for a soda and other ####, they are being a kid.  I talked to one parent after that, and they thanked me and said they don't really give them that stuff, but of course the kids will ask and try to get it.   0 to do with "living in fear", whatever the #### that means, and more to do with trying to not be a #### and letting other parents parent their kids and make choices for them.  

 

[tonydead]

It's hard to believe this is even an argument in here.  The things these people argue about it.  This is a basic tenant of being a human in a society.  I've never seen someone so casually admit something so insanely selfish.  Unbelievable.  

It started with the claim that "unvaccinated people are selfish".  A perfectly debatable premise.

Only when those same people tried to compare it to guns, peanut allergies, the flu and pet ownership did the conversation go off the rails. 

 

[AAABatteries]

Why are you making this conversation so hostile?

Welcome to the boards, we hope you enjoy your stay with us.

 

[tonydead]

Sorry, I don't decide things for other parents.  Not my job, and I think it's pretty inconsiderate.    The kids running around are kids - of course they ask for a soda and other ####, they are being a kid.  I talked to one parent after that, and they thanked me and said they don't really give them that stuff, but of course the kids will ask and try to get it.   0 to do with "living in fear", whatever the #### that means, and more to do with trying to not be a #### and letting other parents parent their kids and make choices for them.  

Covid <> giving kids soda.

I think worrying about Covid now the vaccine is available to everyone that wants it is silly.  Worrying about giving kids soda and comparing that to Covid is nuts.

 

[JIslander]

Do you have kids?

That's a no 

 

[The Commish]

the "fear" shtick is spreading huh??  goodie

 

[The Commish]

Vaccines STILL aren't available to everyone that wants it.  Why does that keep getting repeated?  It's false.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Covid <> giving kids soda.

I think worrying about Covid now the vaccine is available to everyone that wants it is silly.  Worrying about giving kids soda and comparing that to Covid is nuts.

At no point did I compare soda to covid.   Just listing things that I do as a common courtesy to other parents (which includes telling people if I or my family is sick).  

 

[Skoo]

You don't control a virus. You don't choose to get infected. You can't purposely infect others. Some people choose to live their lives as they normally would. Others choose to lock themselves up and hope they never die from it. I don't blame either of those groups. The 3rd group is where I get angry. The ones that use this an excuse to lock up others for "the safety of themselves and others." No. You can kindly move along if that's your stance. The selfish one is you.

The science says you are 100% wrong on this.

So while everyone is entitled to their opinion, it's probably best we follow the science.

600,000 people died the last time we didn't.

 

[tonydead]

The science says you are 100% wrong on this.

So while everyone is entitled to their opinion, it's probably best we follow the science.

600,000 people died the last time we didn't.

600,000 died before we made a very effective vaccine available to everyone.  Since then only 30,000 have died.

 

[tonydead]

At no point did I compare soda to covid.   Just listing things that I do as a common courtesy to other parents (which includes telling people if I or my family is sick).  

My bad.  What was the discussion about when you decided to bring up giving kids stuff other than water when they come over to play?  I thought we were discussing how selfish it was for not telling you when they are sick and/or not vaccinated for COVID.

 

[Insein]

The science says you are 100% wrong on this.

So while everyone is entitled to their opinion, it's probably best we follow the science.

600,000 people died the last time we didn't.

So I can go up to someone and infect them at will? Or vice versa I can control the virus not to infect someone? I don't recall that science says anything of the sort but do go on.

 

[Skoo]

600,000 died before we made a very effective vaccine available to everyone.  Since then only 30,000 have died.

Exactly!

 

[Skoo]

And I find radical authoritarians to be a very cult like group of people that I would also like to avoid. 

Vaccines started being required in public schools in 1855.

Not exactly some new outlandish idea to have people vaccinated if they want to participate in society.

Authoritarians, lol. Hyperbole much?

 

[Insein]

Vaccines started being required in public schools in 1855.

Not exactly some new outlandish idea to have people vaccinated if they want to participate in society.

Authoritarians, lol. Hyperbole much?

Mandatory vaccination has been decided at a state level since that time. Vaccines that have been thoroughly tested over decades of research and recording possible and likely side effects. They also come with safety measures and the ability to seek compensation should injury occur from said vaccination from the company or entity that created them. None of these conditions have been met. 

Besides which, the comment was aimed at individuals who believe that their perception of safety overrides everyone else's freedom at all costs. Frequently shouting death tolls to justify any government restriction in the name of "safety and security" for all. 

 

[Thunderlips]

Mandatory vaccination has been decided at a state level since that time. Vaccines that have been thoroughly tested over decades of research and recording possible and likely side effects. They also come with safety measures and the ability to seek compensation should injury occur from said vaccination from the company or entity that created them. None of these conditions have been met. 

Besides which, the comment was aimed at individuals who believe that their perception of safety overrides everyone else's freedom at all costs. Frequently shouting death tolls to justify any government restriction in the name of "safety and security" for all. 

I get that narrative to a point....but can't technology/medical science improve to the point that that doesn't need to happen anymore?  Arent' the first speedbumps in scientific innovation and invention usually the most difficult?

 

[Amused to Death]

Mandatory vaccination has been decided at a state level since that time. Vaccines that have been thoroughly tested over decades of research and recording possible and likely side effects. They also come with safety measures and the ability to seek compensation should injury occur from said vaccination from the company or entity that created them. None of these conditions have been met. 

Besides which, the comment was aimed at individuals who believe that their perception of safety overrides everyone else's freedom at all costs. Frequently shouting death tolls to justify any government restriction in the name of "safety and security" for all. 

These vaccines have been in development since 2002. They're not new, just a new target infection.

Vaccine developers had a head start — While the process used to create the COVID-19 vaccines is novel, it’s not an unfamiliar technology, says Clay Dunagan, MD, BJC HealthCare chief clinical officer and infectious disease specialist. In fact, scientists have been working on coronavirus vaccines for decades.

“This vaccine strategy was explored in the original SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) and MERS (Middle-East respiratory syndrome) virus outbreaks,” Dr. Dunagan says. “So, it’s not unprecedented for use in people.”

Neither of those viruses turned out to spread as quickly as SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, however, so those vaccines were never brought to market at the time.

 

[tonydead]

Exactly!

Just a tad bit more deadly right now than the flu.  You don't gaslight the 50% of people that don't get the flu vaccine each year.

Deja Vu, have your read the last couple pages?

 

[JIslander]

Exactly!

!!!!

 

[Amused to Death]

Just a tad bit more deadly right now than the flu.  You don't gaslight the 50% of people that don't get the flu vaccine each year.

Deja Vu, have your read the last couple pages?

Does the flu typically overrun hospitals? When was the last time hospitals were begging for help due to the flu?

 

[JIslander]

Just a tad bit more deadly right now than the flu.  You don't gaslight the 50% of people that don't get the flu vaccine each year.

Deja Vu, have your read the last couple pages?

Thanks to the vaccine.

 

[LawFitz]

These vaccines have been in development since 2002. They're not new, just a new target infection.

Vaccine developers had a head start — While the process used to create the COVID-19 vaccines is novel, it’s not an unfamiliar technology, says Clay Dunagan, MD, BJC HealthCare chief clinical officer and infectious disease specialist. In fact, scientists have been working on coronavirus vaccines for decades.

“This vaccine strategy was explored in the original SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) and MERS (Middle-East respiratory syndrome) virus outbreaks,” Dr. Dunagan says. “So, it’s not unprecedented for use in people.”

Neither of those viruses turned out to spread as quickly as SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, however, so those vaccines were never brought to market at the time.

Is the bolded why they weren't brought to market? Or was it because they were experiencing sketchy results in trials?

mRNA vaxxes have been in development for 20 years for all kinds of diseases, including cancer. The market for them has been immense and awaiting their arrival - but until the rush to create Covid vaxxes, they weren't deemed safe. Hmm.

 

[Amused to Death]

Is the bolded why they weren't brought to market? Or was it because they were experiencing sketchy results in trials?

mRNA vaxxes have been in development for 20 years for all kinds of diseases, including cancer. The market for them has been immense and awaiting their arrival - but until the rush to create Covid vaxxes, they weren't deemed safe. Hmm.

Link for the bolded please.

 

[the moops]

Why are you making this conversation so hostile?

I answered your question as simply and directly as possible.  No hostile intention at all.  Why are you so sensitive?

You just told me that if you had covid or flu like symptoms but didn't feel terrible, you would stil go visit people and not tell them you are sick. I am sensitive to that sort of callousness.

 

[supermike80]

These vaccines have been in development since 2002. They're not new, just a new target infection.

Vaccine developers had a head start — While the process used to create the COVID-19 vaccines is novel, it’s not an unfamiliar technology, says Clay Dunagan, MD, BJC HealthCare chief clinical officer and infectious disease specialist. In fact, scientists have been working on coronavirus vaccines for decades.

“This vaccine strategy was explored in the original SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) and MERS (Middle-East respiratory syndrome) virus outbreaks,” Dr. Dunagan says. “So, it’s not unprecedented for use in people.”

Neither of those viruses turned out to spread as quickly as SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, however, so those vaccines were never brought to market at the time.

Ok well I read this and what I read, is essentially nothing.

“This vaccine strategy was explored in the original SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) and MERS (Middle-East respiratory syndrome) virus outbreaks"

What the heck does that mean?   Absolutely nothing to me.   Explored?  So?  

 

[Insein]

I get that narrative to a point....but can't technology/medical science improve to the point that that doesn't need to happen anymore?  Arent' the first speedbumps in scientific innovation and invention usually the most difficult?

Yes it can but there's a difference between dropping the research from a decade to maybe 2-3 years and dropping from a decade to 4-6 months. Then compound that by taking away liability for injuries suffered from the vaccine. That gives me no confidence in the findings if they won't stand behind it. 

 

[Amused to Death]

Yes it can but there's a difference between dropping the research from a decade to maybe 2-3 years and dropping from a decade to 4-6 months. Then compound that by taking away liability for injuries suffered from the vaccine. That gives me no confidence in the findings if they won't stand behind it. 

Except that's not what happened. This vaccine technology has been developed since '02.

 

[Insein]

These vaccines have been in development since 2002. They're not new, just a new target infection.

Vaccine developers had a head start — While the process used to create the COVID-19 vaccines is novel, it’s not an unfamiliar technology, says Clay Dunagan, MD, BJC HealthCare chief clinical officer and infectious disease specialist. In fact, scientists have been working on coronavirus vaccines for decades.

“This vaccine strategy was explored in the original SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) and MERS (Middle-East respiratory syndrome) virus outbreaks,” Dr. Dunagan says. “So, it’s not unprecedented for use in people.”

Neither of those viruses turned out to spread as quickly as SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, however, so those vaccines were never brought to market at the time.

This is the first real mass use of the product in general and more so the first clinical trial after the modifications for Covid. There are going to be issues that come up with that. Why then was liability removed?

 

[Insein]

Except that's not what happened. This vaccine technology has been developed since '02.

You can design the system but you still have to write the code for the specific program you need. They crammed that together in less than 6 months. So no, they have not been specifically making a Covid-19 vaccine since 2002.

 

[Stealthycat]

I've lived through 18 months of the worst pandemic of 100 years .... a highly contagious, deadly virus ...

and I've not been sick yet - amazing that me and 88% of the population is like that, isn't it ?

but I've been put in quarantine a couple of times for not being sick, and I've been tested once even though I had zero symptoms of being sick and I've had to wear masks even though I'm not sick

but in the coming months, I'll be forced to get a shot that won't stop me from getting the sick I've not gotten, it'll just help keep me from getting really sick ... and it'll only last a few months and I'll have to get more shots from the virus I've not gotten in 18 months

 

[Stealthycat]

Why then was liability removed?

liability is removed when someone doesn't want to be responsible 

 

[Doug B]

Just a tad bit more deadly right now than the flu.

Right now? No, this is untrue.

Current 7-day average of COVID deaths in the U.S. is 846. Multiplied by 365 makes 308,790 deaths/year. That is the "right now" pace in a nation just over a 51% full vaccination rate.

Meanwhile, the CDC estimates that -- in the U.S. -- influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010.

 

[tonydead]

Does the flu typically overrun hospitals? When was the last time hospitals were begging for help due to the flu?

Hospitals by and large have not been overrun the past few month since the vaccine has been made available to everyone.  Perfect example of gaslighting.