supermike80
Footballguy
So your answer then is no you like the endless discussion. Really all you needed to say.
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Can we continue the discussion about masks? (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Apple Jack
Footballguy
No, that wasn't his answer. Have you considered starting your own thread where you could just post away just for the sake of seeing yourself post there?
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Just a thought, and I haven’t commented on either thread - it’s an important issue. You’ve seen the stats I’m sure, adherence to the mask regimen would mitigate a good deal of the issues we are currently facing. I’m sure you’ll agree this is a national crisis, I’m sure you’ll agree thousands are dying and tens of thousands are contracting the disease.
The crux here appears to be the President and some minority that does not acknowledge the medical need for this.
timschochet
Footballguy
Yes it does. And as I’ve asserted for over a year with regard to a variety of subjects: this is the main reason that Donald Trump won’t be re-elected.
But unfortunately here we are.
JamieMurphy
Footballguy
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
No, the discussion is relatively new to me. I didn’t see the 4 page thread you keep complaining about, while simultaneously adding posts to prolong something you characterize as endless.
I’ll ask again, what would you prefer to discuss? What barriers exist to creating a new thread?
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supermike80
Footballguy
I'm sorry complain? Are you OK? You seem a little confused this morning.
I mean it really was a simple answer. Yet you can't seem to stay on point.
Notice how I didn't respond to the others that just directly answered the question? I mean it's just a simple question.
I've worn one from the start whenever I was out of my home and anyone was near. Was saying this back in April. My thought on it from the start was it's low effort to wear one. If it doesn't do anything, it's not a big deal. If it does do something, and it's pretty easy to believe it does, then we're all better off.
I do get it that there are some deeper things going on with folks. We're wired so that faces are important to us. I get that.
Bottom line, the "cost" of wearing a mask is pretty low. The "reward" or benefit seems to have a reasonable chance of being pretty high. Enough to wear one.
I do get it that there are some deeper things going on with folks. We're wired so that faces are important to us. I get that.
Bottom line, the "cost" of wearing a mask is pretty low. The "reward" or benefit seems to have a reasonable chance of being pretty high. Enough to wear one.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Au contraire, my friend. I’ve answered your question, and provided a constructive outlet to channel your angst.
Stop reading and posting in threads you find worthless, and start creating threads on topics you value. If you have nothing to add to the conversation, don’t hang around just to ridicule others.
supermike80
Footballguy
dgreen
Footballguy
Good question. A couple options I can think of. Until there’s a vaccine or until we’ve reached herd immunity through infection?
quick-hands
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
What if the vaccine isn't available to everyone? What if some decide they don't want the vaccine?
I thought this was a good article shared by my friend Adam Harstad. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/dudes-who-wont-wear-masks/613375/
dgreen
Footballguy
Why wouldn’t it be available to everyone? Just short supply? In that case, I assume we keep masks until we have enough supply, however much “enough” is.
I don’t know enough about this to know if Covid vaccine refusal should be treated like flu vaccine refusal or the vaccines that, for example, are required for kids to attend school. My guess is we’d treat it more like the flu vaccine and encourage it but not make a huge deal about and stop using masks even if we know people are refusing. Maybe local ordinances will be based on percentage of population who have been vaccined.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
I know many people just from reading facebook that would not be taking the vaccine. I have a child that had some pretty bad health issues after that stupid swine flu vaccine so I can't say we would make them take it.
whoknew
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
By an Epidemiologist and professor at Harvard Medical School.
- I thought RW's point in the other thread on this was fine. It's definitely true that there are people with asthma for instance.
- Also if the debate is not about masks (pro/con) but about shame vs empathy, then it's a really good point. It is in fact not political, but it is a human, personal issue. Just treat people with respect.
whoknew
Footballguy
I think the first question is an excellent one that I've not seen addressed yet. Who is going to pay for the vaccine? Will insurance pay for it? What about the uninsured? ANd how long will it take to roll it out?
The second question - is also a relevant, if very frustrating, question. I think you have to basically exclude people from things if they don't have it. For example - in school participation. Maybe in the office for work.
Redwes25
Footballguy
Seems to work in NYC. Not sure why there is resistance. Would say there is almost 95 percent compliance outside and 100 percent inside.
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Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Redwes25
Footballguy
I agree with this completely. What is harm to wearing one as it is painless. Seems pretty selfish to not one wear as you can’t know if you are sick and spreading the disease.
This disease is serious as I know probably a dozen people who have died. I don’t know anyone who has ever died of the flu. I still think people don’t realize this underlying point.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
dgreen
Footballguy
NYC is a unique place in our country. I don't understand the reason for needing high compliance in outdoor areas in most of the country.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
True. They're the ones actually beating back the virus while cases spike nationwide.
Wonder if there's any relationship there, between masks and doing well against the viral spread?
Redwes25
Footballguy
Because it is very clear that it works. You look at Asian countries with high mask compliance and they have very low Case levels. NYC also had massive protests and NYC case levels are lower then when they started. Compare that with places with low compliance and you have high spread.
dgreen
Footballguy
I'm specifically talking about outdoor areas. In NYC, outdoor areas have a lot of people in close proximity. In many areas of the country, outdoor areas don't have a lot of people in close proximity.
Until this thread, I honestly haven't heard people arguing that masks should be worn at all times outside. It makes sense in NYC.
snogger
Footballguy
For the "How do we enforce mandatory masks".. I don't think you need to ticket them.. But it would be easier for businesses to deal with it.
Speaking to business owners around this area they wish it was Mandatory to wear inside. Some have tried enforcing it and got so much push back ( much like the videos we've all seen) that they gave up.
If it was mandatory by the state/feds, then businesses would have an easier time of saying "No mask, No Service"..
But right now, at least in Wisconsin, it is up to counties/cities/businesses to decide which is just a
None of the restaurant's/bars in town have their staff wearing masks.
My wife and I tried to go out to eat the other night.... tried two different restaurants and saw the staff walking around like it was just a "normal" day without masks and walked back out.
Kind of feel Feel bad for them as they are damned if they do enforce it and damned if they don't.. But with my wife being a diabetic and taking care of Senior Citizens as her job, we are not taking any chances.
Speaking to business owners around this area they wish it was Mandatory to wear inside. Some have tried enforcing it and got so much push back ( much like the videos we've all seen) that they gave up.
If it was mandatory by the state/feds, then businesses would have an easier time of saying "No mask, No Service"..
But right now, at least in Wisconsin, it is up to counties/cities/businesses to decide which is just a
None of the restaurant's/bars in town have their staff wearing masks.
My wife and I tried to go out to eat the other night.... tried two different restaurants and saw the staff walking around like it was just a "normal" day without masks and walked back out.
Kind of feel Feel bad for them as they are damned if they do enforce it and damned if they don't.. But with my wife being a diabetic and taking care of Senior Citizens as her job, we are not taking any chances.
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quick-hands
Footballguy
If we are gonna get to herd immunity and we accept your million deaths or so deaths costs. Those deaths will happen whether you get to herd immunity in 2 years or 10.
shader
Footballguy
Redwes25
Footballguy
Yeah, I am not saying you go hiking in the woods by yourself you need a mask but you go into town and walk main street, etc. you should have a mask on. Chance you are going to walk by someone you should have a mask on. Look at cases in Asia compared to here. Most of those countries never did full lockdowns like us but they have such lower cases. There is one clear difference - they wear masks everywhere.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
It's ok to take precautions and wait for a vaccine. We don't have to throw civilization to the wolves. We have brains and stuff.
dgreen
Footballguy
Yes, agree. My only point was that there are places that are outdoors that masks aren't needed and that our country is large and has a variety of landscapes where a person might be outdoors. On Broadway in NYC, wear masks. Hiking in the woods by yourself, no mask needed. Somewhere in between, there's a line.
I usually go on multiple 10-20 minute walks, either by myself or with the dog, each day in my suburban townhouse neighborhood. I can easily do that without coming within 50 or even 100+ feet of another person. There just aren't that many people outside at any given time. So far, I've been doing those walks without even taking a mask with me. I probably should start to at least have one with me because, yes, there are rare times that I might cross paths at a closer distance of maybe like 20 feet.
In my neighborhood, I think I've only seen one older Asian woman who always has a mask on outside. There's one particular neighborhood nearby that I drive through a lot that has what I assume is a high immigrant/foreign-born population (mostly East Asian and Middle Eastern and Indian). That neighborhood has noticeably more masks outside, but still less than half of the people. Again, these are suburban neighborhoods with plenty of space and there's really no reason people can't keep their distance on these walks.
As far as I can tell, my county's numbers are looking ok. Pretty much 100% compliance in indoor public spaces (grocery stores, Wal Mart, Target, etc). But, like I said, I don't see much outside. I haven't taken a stroll down any local main streets where there might be a little more pedestrian traffic. Maybe I'll do that soon or at least take a drive through one to see what I see.
supermike80
Footballguy
Don't need to make them a law, but I don't understand the resistance to them.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
For sure. I am in Dane county. Have 0 clue why we are doing this county by county BSBut right now, at least in Wisconsin, it is up to counties/cities/businesses to decide which is just a
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
You only need enough people vaccinated + naturally exposed to reach the herd immunity threshold, which is roughly 1-1/Ro. Likely 60-70% for this virus, so plenty can opt out or miss vaccination.
gianmarco
Footballguy
How effective is wearing a mask?
Short video with demonstration/experiment that makes it clear why they should be used.
Short video with demonstration/experiment that makes it clear why they should be used.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Incorrect. You’re assuming there are no advances in therapeutics/control measures and hospitals aren’t overrun along the way, plus ignoring the possibility the virus becomes less virulent via mutation over time. This isn’t like removing a bandaid.
shader
Footballguy
I think two things:
1. Everyone should wear a mask when they leave their home
2. Lockdowns are still the primary way to stop an outbreak.
I don't like the idea of using masks as a replacement for lockdowns. It's risky. I don't know of another country that did that, so it's a risky proposition in the middle of a pandemic.
1. Everyone should wear a mask when they leave their home
2. Lockdowns are still the primary way to stop an outbreak.
I don't like the idea of using masks as a replacement for lockdowns. It's risky. I don't know of another country that did that, so it's a risky proposition in the middle of a pandemic.
quick-hands
Footballguy
1- No, they should practise social distancing and common sense. Pointing to masks as the solution to solve everything is just giving up on what we know works.
2- It's not worth the economic impact any longer. If you believe the people claiming how poorly it was executed, it never was.
ren hoek
Footballguy
I’ve read the death rate is around 0.26%. Also that a study found particle transmission through cloth masks to be 97%. Have also read report of something like 30% of people randomly tested on the street (out of only 200 tested in Chelsea Massachusetts) already testing positive for covid antibodies. I wonder how many people have already had it and either didn’t realize it, or weren’t symptomatic enough to bother dealing with it in a serious way. Testing has obviously been abysmal in this country.
But what I’m interested in is if there are reliable studies out there for the percentage of people that are made severely ill by the virus. Pneumonia, flu, the need to go on ventilators etc.
Because I’m really not convinced all this warrants the militant culture shift that’s happened. I wear a mask out in public places if I’m getting close to someone or entering a building, I have to wear one at work as well. I have vulnerable people in my life just like anyone else and I try to be mindful.
But again I don’t like this push to create a bunch of laws and enforcement mechanisms around it. I don’t like all this social distancing signage around everywhere and the authorities using the pandemic to assert new powers.
I don’t like people lecturing us about “listening to the experts” and putting their hands on their hips when the expert advice was markedly different just 3 months ago. I dont trust the cdc, I don’t trust this Fauci guy, I don’t know him, and I sure as #### don’t trust Bill Gates. And let’s be honest, the covid scolding was practically nonexistent through several weeks of mass protests. It’s hard for me to make sense out of all this.
But what I’m interested in is if there are reliable studies out there for the percentage of people that are made severely ill by the virus. Pneumonia, flu, the need to go on ventilators etc.
Because I’m really not convinced all this warrants the militant culture shift that’s happened. I wear a mask out in public places if I’m getting close to someone or entering a building, I have to wear one at work as well. I have vulnerable people in my life just like anyone else and I try to be mindful.
But again I don’t like this push to create a bunch of laws and enforcement mechanisms around it. I don’t like all this social distancing signage around everywhere and the authorities using the pandemic to assert new powers.
I don’t like people lecturing us about “listening to the experts” and putting their hands on their hips when the expert advice was markedly different just 3 months ago. I dont trust the cdc, I don’t trust this Fauci guy, I don’t know him, and I sure as #### don’t trust Bill Gates. And let’s be honest, the covid scolding was practically nonexistent through several weeks of mass protests. It’s hard for me to make sense out of all this.
timschochet
Footballguy
Sorry but some of this debate seems so pointless to me. If we were really limiting people’s freedoms- let’s say we discovered, for example, that dogs spread the disease to humans and so we decided that no one could own dogs anymore and everyone had to turn in their dogs- then I could see that before we did that, we would have to be 100% sure we were right. 95% in that instance wouldn’t cut it. We’d need to investigate every discrepancy, every report to make sure before we took such an action.
But here we’re talking about wearing masks in public. Big effing deal. I read it’s 90% effective in stopping the virus. Ren just linked a story that disputes that. And I don’t care enough to look and see who’s right. Because it’s just not that huge a thing. Just wear one already.
But here we’re talking about wearing masks in public. Big effing deal. I read it’s 90% effective in stopping the virus. Ren just linked a story that disputes that. And I don’t care enough to look and see who’s right. Because it’s just not that huge a thing. Just wear one already.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
It's amazing on every single subject you want to drive the narrative and push your beliefs and wants on everyone. Every. Single. Topic.
CDC current guidelines states that masks are "recommended" for social situations where social distancing measures may be difficult to implement.
CDC current guidelines "recommend" cloth masks only, surgical and 95N type should still be reserved for healthcare workers.
Our company only mandates masks if you are working within 6 feet for 10 minutes or longer. I'm still looking for where CDC has this time limit (since our guidelines state they are fully compliant with CDC guidelines).
CDC current guidelines "recommend" cloth masks only, surgical and 95N type should still be reserved for healthcare workers.
Our company only mandates masks if you are working within 6 feet for 10 minutes or longer. I'm still looking for where CDC has this time limit (since our guidelines state they are fully compliant with CDC guidelines).
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Exactly. For all the outrage over people not wearing masks they didn't say a damn word about it during the protests and while people were looting, burning stuff down and killing other people.
Spare me the lecturing and outrage because that's all it appears to be and only when it doesn't fit the narrative.
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General Malaise
Footballguy
Should I be wearing a mask if I ever do some sex again?
Can we get the OP updated with the current guidelines? Everyone is pushing this everyone must wear a mask when you leave the house narrative and that's far from what CDC and most States are requiring as far as I can tell.
That makes me think it's more political and media driven than it is science or common sense.
That makes me think it's more political and media driven than it is science or common sense.
Redwes25
Footballguy
Agree that is what CDC guidelines say and what most states follow. I think it is wrong and can be shown by cases in Asia, areas in Europe that require masks and NYC cases after massive protesting where protesters were wearing masks (unlike cops but that is a different issue).
Everyone should wear a mask except when they can be a 100% certain they can do social distancing (hike in woods) but if you are out walking in town or neighborhood you should be wearing a mask.
ETA - probably ok to have mask around neck and get near someone pull it up.
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Almost all liberals are for wearing masks in public, against looting, against arson and against murder.
