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Capella's 24-hour, VERY bigly OH MY GOD HOW DID WE GET HERE thread (3 Viewers)

The Dems need to hold the right's feet to the flames on abortion and play chicken.   They won't.  But if they had any balls they would.  You know the Republicans can't do anything about it.  Dare them to try.  Then maybe the religious nuts will quit with the "single issue voting."  

 
Sinn Fein said:
Sad, by true. 

I hope you understand that the healthcare problem is not ACA, it's not going far enough to rein in rising healthcare costs. And, repealing ACA without also addressing Big pharma, medical, and insurance industries is still going to leave us overpaying for healthcare. 
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You're right it's not the only problem but it's one of them.  Don't disagree with the rest

 
IMO - This is definitely an indictment of the Affordable Care Act. People want government to make it so they can make easier/more personal choices on their own. It's why Dems win on social issues. Republicans make that stuff harder for people.

At first the ACA looked to be a success in both criteria. But the end result appeared to the masses that it told people the gov could decide what's best FOR them and eventually made it harder for people in their daily lives.

P.S. - It was never about affordability in the first place.

 
The craziest thing about this is as I'm reading the hot takes today, everywhere, that Hill voters just cannot make sense of the fact that people voted for Trump for reason other than he has said some controversial stuff. Like if you voted for Trump you MUST be racist, etc. Like it's unfathomable that we looked past that at Hillary's trail of corruption and were massively turned off by that.

 
ShamrockPride said:
The craziest thing about this is as I'm reading the hot takes today, everywhere, that Hill voters just cannot make sense of the fact that people voted for Trump for reason other than he has said some controversial stuff. Like if you voted for Trump you MUST be racist, etc. Like it's unfathomable that we looked past that at Hillary's trail of corruption and were massively turned off by that.
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You have a point.  Trump has made numerous "off-color" remarks but no one would ever call him corrupt.

 
How am I going to explain this to my daughters???
My two year old is too young to understand; my four year old also but my seven year old certainly does.   She doesn't understand the larger repercussions, she doesn't know the gravity but she will.   She will feel it, she will know that we haven't made the progress that my wife, my mom, my grandmother thought they made.  She will know, in her heart, that her country still thinks it's ok to denigrate her.  
 
It's not that a woman didn't win, it is that a misogynists did.  I could have explained Jeb!, or W or even Ted Cruz but I cannot explain how we, as the most diverse country in the world, can be so accepting of something so rotten.  I don't know what I will tell her other than that I'm sorry that she will wake up tomorrow and know that this is the will of the people, that this is now OK.  That preying on women, that calling them pigs and dogs is apparently acceptable, that threatening to rape them is just locker room talk that can be laughed off. 
How can I explain that any college educated woman voted for this man?  How can I explain that college educated men did?   I expected that the uneducated would, but how does somebody with an advanced degree, a supposed view of the world and of history, somebody with a sense of decency, stand in a booth a pull the tab down for a man like this?
 
What is wrong with our country that this is acceptable
 
 
Otis said:
Normally if you wanted to build a wall, you'd just go over to the Home Depot parking lot and hire a bunch of Mexicans. I guess that's a no go. 
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OK, whitey. Let's make fun of people who are actually looking for work, instead of nursing a hangover at home in their government housing, frantically searching for their crack pipe. Sound racist? Look in the mirror.

 
Righetti said:
How am I going to explain this to my daughters???
My two year old is too young to understand; my four year old also but my seven year old certainly does.   She doesn't understand the larger repercussions, she doesn't know the gravity but she will.   She will feel it, she will know that we haven't made the progress that my wife, my mom, my grandmother thought they made.  She will know, in her heart, that her country still thinks it's ok to denigrate her.  
 
It's not that a woman didn't win, it is that a misogynists did.  I could have explained Jeb!, or W or even Ted Cruz but I cannot explain how we, as the most diverse country in the world, can be so accepting of something so rotten.  I don't know what I will tell her other than that I'm sorry that she will wake up tomorrow and know that this is the will of the people, that this is now OK.  That preying on women, that calling them pigs and dogs is apparently acceptable, that threatening to rape them is just locker room talk that can be laughed off. 
How can I explain that any college educated woman voted for this man?  How can I explain that college educated men did?   I expected that the uneducated would, but how does somebody with an advanced degree, a supposed view of the world and of history, somebody with a sense of decency, stand in a booth a pull the tab down for a man like this?
 
What is wrong with our country that this is acceptable
 
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You explain that this is democracy working at its finest. He won it fair and square because men and women politicians failed us. Because I believe most of the people who voted for Trump still have respect for men, women, children, blacks, whites, and everyone else.

 
I realize this will get buried in 5 minutes but I think the last 3 elections have shown us that the "change" candidate pitching the most hopeful message to lower income white people sells.

Clinton did not pitch a message of change or jobs, it was pitching the high road, much like Romney did.  Romney supporters turned their nose up at the "Hopey/Change" side of Obama and mocked it as did McCain/Palin.  Both failed to resonate with white lower class.   

Clinton failed to get nominated the first time out for the same reason, and didn't learn from that experience either, and here we are.

 
Righetti said:
How am I going to explain this to my daughters???
My two year old is too young to understand; my four year old also but my seven year old certainly does.   She doesn't understand the larger repercussions, she doesn't know the gravity but she will.   She will feel it, she will know that we haven't made the progress that my wife, my mom, my grandmother thought they made.  She will know, in her heart, that her country still thinks it's ok to denigrate her.  
 
It's not that a woman didn't win, it is that a misogynists did.  I could have explained Jeb!, or W or even Ted Cruz but I cannot explain how we, as the most diverse country in the world, can be so accepting of something so rotten.  I don't know what I will tell her other than that I'm sorry that she will wake up tomorrow and know that this is the will of the people, that this is now OK.  That preying on women, that calling them pigs and dogs is apparently acceptable, that threatening to rape them is just locker room talk that can be laughed off. 
How can I explain that any college educated woman voted for this man?  How can I explain that college educated men did?   I expected that the uneducated would, but how does somebody with an advanced degree, a supposed view of the world and of history, somebody with a sense of decency, stand in a booth a pull the tab down for a man like this?
 
What is wrong with our country that this is acceptable
 
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Just tell her that America puts a lot of weight into truth and honesty and rejects corruption.  Tell her that the establishment hand picked and tilted the tables for the candidate of their choice and not the people.

 
culdeus said:
I realize this will get buried in 5 minutes but I think the last 3 elections have shown us that the "change" candidate pitching the most hopeful message to lower income white people sells.

Clinton did not pitch a message of change or jobs, it was pitching the high road, much like Romney did.  Romney supporters turned their nose up at the "Hopey/Change" side of Obama and mocked it as did McCain/Palin.  Both failed to resonate with white lower class.   

Clinton failed to get nominated the first time out for the same reason, and didn't learn from that experience either, and here we are.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

 
Righetti said:
How am I going to explain this to my daughters???
My two year old is too young to understand; my four year old also but my seven year old certainly does.   She doesn't understand the larger repercussions, she doesn't know the gravity but she will.   She will feel it, she will know that we haven't made the progress that my wife, my mom, my grandmother thought they made.  She will know, in her heart, that her country still thinks it's ok to denigrate her.  
 
It's not that a woman didn't win, it is that a misogynists did.  I could have explained Jeb!, or W or even Ted Cruz but I cannot explain how we, as the most diverse country in the world, can be so accepting of something so rotten.  I don't know what I will tell her other than that I'm sorry that she will wake up tomorrow and know that this is the will of the people, that this is now OK.  That preying on women, that calling them pigs and dogs is apparently acceptable, that threatening to rape them is just locker room talk that can be laughed off. 
How can I explain that any college educated woman voted for this man?  How can I explain that college educated men did?   I expected that the uneducated would, but how does somebody with an advanced degree, a supposed view of the world and of history, somebody with a sense of decency, stand in a booth a pull the tab down for a man like this?
 
What is wrong with our country that this is acceptable
 
Click to expand...

 
Interesting the continued use of the phrase 'college educated' and 'uneducated' to separate the smart from the dumb.

As if you cannot be at all intelligent without going to college.

So condescending and ill-informed.

 
ShamrockPride said:
The craziest thing about this is as I'm reading the hot takes today, everywhere, that Hill voters just cannot make sense of the fact that people voted for Trump for reason other than he has said some controversial stuff. Like if you voted for Trump you MUST be racist, etc. Like it's unfathomable that we looked past that at Hillary's trail of corruption and were massively turned off by that.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

The handwringing is HIGHLY entertaining, from a 3rd party perspective who hated both candidates. No matter who won, today was going to go soaring to record highs on the unintentional comedy scale. 

I'm just glad the integrity of the SCOTUS is intact for another decade or two. 

 
I know what is going thru the minds of rank and file republicans right now.

1.  If they don't embrace Trump, they get left out in the cold.

2. If they embrace Trump, it will ruin their career when he says or does something so awful that he self-destructs as president. 

 
I bought the office Red White and Blue donuts as a subtle troll attempt this morning... 

... a couple millennials (that I had in mind when buying the donuts) are making it VERY public that they cannot eat those donuts in good conscience :lmao:

 
Riversco said:
2. If they embrace Trump, it will ruin their career when he says or does something so awful that he self-destructs as president. 
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By now I figure most people can understand that what he says has little to no relevance. What he does will determine whether Republicans want to stick with him. It'll be a weird initial feeling out period for a while. I'm hoping for the best, expecting the worst.

 
identikit said:
Interesting the continued use of the phrase 'college educated' and 'uneducated' to separate the smart from the dumb.

As if you cannot be at all intelligent without going to college.

So condescending and ill-informed.
Click to expand...
It's not about intelligence, but rather the simple fact that W2 employees are predominantly college educated and pay a huge tax burden whereas non-college educated folks by and large don't have earnings to meet tax thresholds that would even move the needle, or are otherwise on assistance.  There are exceptions obviously to both sides, but you are looking at a group that is wildy random in their voting pattern because they have minimal skin in the game tax burden wise.  Therefore, you need to attract them with things that are more externalities than broad based "I'm gonna lower your taxes" things, since they don't really pay any taxes.  (Bottom 50% of earners pay <2.5% of the total taxes)

http://www.ntu.org/foundation/page/who-pays-income-taxes

 
Time and time again, democrats cast more votes and get less representation in government than republicans. It's a hill we have to climb. It's not going to get any easier.

 
identikit said:
Interesting the continued use of the phrase 'college educated' and 'uneducated' to separate the smart from the dumb.

As if you cannot be at all intelligent without going to college.

So condescending and ill-informed.

.
Click to expand...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
culdeus said:
It's not about intelligence, but rather the simple fact that W2 employees are predominantly college educated and pay a huge tax burden whereas non-college educated folks by and large don't have earnings to meet tax thresholds that would even move the needle, or are otherwise on assistance.  There are exceptions obviously to both sides, but you are looking at a group that is wildy random in their voting pattern because they have minimal skin in the game tax burden wise.  Therefore, you need to attract them with things that are more externalities than broad based "I'm gonna lower your taxes" things, since they don't really pay any taxes.  (Bottom 50% of earners pay <2.5% of the total taxes)

http://www.ntu.org/foundation/page/who-pays-income-taxes
Click to expand...
It'd be interesting to see what the number of self-employed WITHOUT degrees there are out there. Seems like that's being discounted here, but I'm just guessing. 

 
culdeus said:
It's not about intelligence, but rather the simple fact that W2 employees are predominantly college educated and pay a huge tax burden whereas non-college educated folks by and large don't have earnings to meet tax thresholds that would even move the needle, or are otherwise on assistance.  There are exceptions obviously to both sides, but you are looking at a group that is wildy random in their voting pattern because they have minimal skin in the game tax burden wise.  Therefore, you need to attract them with things that are more externalities than broad based "I'm gonna lower your taxes" things, since they don't really pay any taxes.  (Bottom 50% of earners pay <2.5% of the total taxes)

http://www.ntu.org/foundation/page/who-pays-income-taxes
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So?

 
I think what we've seen here, and elsewhere in the world (Brexit, etc.) is a widescale fear and repudiation of globalism and its effects. There are a lot of people in the U.S. and around the more developed nations of the world who are feeling left out by the rapid changes that have taken place since the internet really took hold and technology has continued to advance in the ensuing couple of decades. Jobs are being lost, to offshoring and, more importantly, to automation, that probably aren't going to return to those who think they should rightly have them.

I don't know that you can turn back the clock on that progress. I think we need to re-examine the notion of work for pay, and whether current forms of capitalism will continue to work for the broad swath of humanity from here forward. I'm pretty sure we have some serious adjusting to do in this area, and I don't think becoming overly protectionist and nationalist is going to address it satisfactorily. I know that's the experiment we're about to embark on, I'm skeptical that the people who voted for Trump are going to get a happy ending in this area.

 
culdeus said:
It's not about intelligence, but rather the simple fact that W2 employees are predominantly college educated and pay a huge tax burden whereas non-college educated folks by and large don't have earnings to meet tax thresholds that would even move the needle, or are otherwise on assistance.  There are exceptions obviously to both sides, but you are looking at a group that is wildy random in their voting pattern because they have minimal skin in the game tax burden wise.  Therefore, you need to attract them with things that are more externalities than broad based "I'm gonna lower your taxes" things, since they don't really pay any taxes.  (Bottom 50% of earners pay <2.5% of the total taxes)

http://www.ntu.org/foundation/page/who-pays-income-taxes
Click to expand...
No, it's about intelligence.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
In my view, a key component of a functioning democracy is an independent media that's able to give information to the electorate that they rely upon in voting.  I feel like that system has completely broken down. 
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I don't necessarily disagree - voters are incapable of doing their job without information, and there has to be some level of trust that the information is reasonably reliable.  Having said that - the underlying true question here is, I think - what is "the media," today.  Because it is clearly not CBSNews and the New York Times alone anymore.

 
culdeus said:
I realize this will get buried in 5 minutes but I think the last 3 elections have shown us that the "change" candidate pitching the most hopeful message to lower income white people sells.

Clinton did not pitch a message of change or jobs, it was pitching the high road, much like Romney did.  Romney supporters turned their nose up at the "Hopey/Change" side of Obama and mocked it as did McCain/Palin.  Both failed to resonate with white lower class.   

Clinton failed to get nominated the first time out for the same reason, and didn't learn from that experience either, and here we are.
Click to expand...
The message Clinton pitched in Florida were repeated attack ads about how awful Trump was. How could he say such nasty things and who will think of the children?

 
Yankee23Fan said:
I don't necessarily disagree - voters are incapable of doing their job without information, and there has to be some level of trust that the information is reasonably reliable.  Having said that - the underlying true question here is, I think - what is "the media," today.  Because it is clearly not CBSNews and the New York Times alone anymore.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's a complicated media landscape.  And I don't see how we get back to a place where people are consuming media that tells them the truth rather than just what they want to hear.

 
So, initial thoughts:

I give myself a solid B- in this thread.  I very clearly slowed down with the awesome and on point movie quotes once states started to report, but that was due to (1) alcohol, (2) wife wanting to do other things, (3) more alcohol, (4) and then a real desire to simply watch what was unfolding before me.

Still, I think B- is fair.  The movies quoted were a vast array of Hollywood goodness, and frankly, my list of quotes still is better than tim's list of top 100 movies.  So there is that.  But I shouldn't kick a horse while it's down. 

 
If the media reported the truth it'd be one thing but they've resorted to manufacturing it in order to compete in the market. 

Consumers have decided that if they're going to consume manufactured news it might as well be the news that reinforces their worldview.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Andy Dufresne said:
If the media reported the truth it'd be one thing but they've resorted to manufacturing it in order to compete in the market. 

Consumers have decided that if they're going to consume manufactured news it might as well be the news that reinforces their worldview.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't go that far, the problem is people are unable to distinguish opinion from fact anymore.  Opinion based journalism sells and instead of being in the back of the newspaper before the classifieds it's front and center.  

 
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