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**** Chargers Interminable Thread - Because No One Demanded It **** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Gr00vus
- Start date
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Chargers offensive line today during practice (LT to RT):
Jamaree Salyer, Zion Johnson, Bradley Bozeman, Foster Sarell,Trey Pipkins
I think this is better that who they had out there last Sunday after Alt went out.
Bekton was a limited participant in practice, which is good news. It'd help if he could get back in there for Sarell.
They signed Sarell to the roster today, added OL Bobby Hart to the practice squad.
Jamaree Salyer, Zion Johnson, Bradley Bozeman, Foster Sarell,Trey Pipkins
I think this is better that who they had out there last Sunday after Alt went out.
Bekton was a limited participant in practice, which is good news. It'd help if he could get back in there for Sarell.
They signed Sarell to the roster today, added OL Bobby Hart to the practice squad.
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
This is a bad team. Yes I know, injuries. But the coaching staff is, frankly, horrible right now.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
What a difference two losses in a row makes.
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
It’s how they lost those two that sucks. No adjustments, bone headed, game changing plays. And it’s on both sides of the ball, and special teams. Oof. Terrible special teams play. That used to be what we could count on.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Copy paste from last week.
These guys are losers. Its in the franchise dna.
Probably my least favorite thing from today, and there are so many possibilities, was the 4th and 2 play. In terms of getting an open receiver for the first down, great play design and call. But it was run for Conklin. Who let an easy throw go right through his hands.
This is a failure on multiple levels. Conklin sucking is the first layer, because that's all he does. The next layer is the coaching staff putting him in that position in the first place. He's done nothing but fail when it counts since he got here. At least run that with Gadsden, no way should success be dependent on Conklin. The third layer of failure is the front office bringing Conklin on and sticking with him. He's proven he shouldn't be on an NFL roster, but here he is wasting a roster spot that a team struggling with depth can't afford to waste.
The front office had a bad off-season for this reason, for similarly wasting other roster spots on people like Matlock, Fisk, Dissly, and a few others who aren't replacement level quality. All the while virtually neglecting to improve depth on the offensive line. I keep hearing that Harbaugh is fretting about all the hits Herbert is taking. There could be no other outcome when all you did to address the sad sacks who can't pass block or run block was to sign Bekton, who it seems rhe wheels have come off of. You blew the off season, these are the consequences.
They drafted Hampton, which is great, except he's been taking a beating behind these clowns.
I appreciate Herbert being a team player, loyal, etc. But if he wants to avoid having his career completely wasted (they've already wasted a half to a third of it), he might want to have his agent start pushing for a trade. Ask Rivers how this movie ends.
B Maverick
Footballguy
Hampton going on short term IR, N Harris out for the season.
I really wish they had kept Rocket Sanders over Vidal, and maybe Haskins.
I really wish they had kept Rocket Sanders over Vidal, and maybe Haskins.
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
On the plus side, Herbert doing fine.
is there any FF opportunity here or just mediocre RBBC?
B Maverick
Footballguy
My guess is mediocre RBBC. But it won't matter if their Oline continues to fall apart.
Tau837
Footballguy
I assume this is sarcasm. I didn't think the Chargers should have re-signed Gilman when they did, and this coaching staff has proven it can produce good DB play from all kinds of players: premium pick players (James), trades (Molden), late draft picks (Still, Hart, Mickens), bargain vet free agents (Jackson, St. Juste, Jefferson), and UDFAs (Reed).
In this case, they had a surplus of safety talent and a deficit in pass rush talent. This is exactly the kind of trade to make to try to address that situation. They should do the same for IOL, but the problem is that no one is selling any quality OL.
I'm interested to see what happens with the active roster based on this trade. They now have 5 active roster Edge players: Tuli, Dupree, Oweh, Murphy, and Kennard. When Mack comes back, he would make 6. No way they keep that many Edge players. I assume Murphy will be the odd man out.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I honestly can't remember seeing PFF grades this bad across the board for an offensive line before:
OG Mekhi Becton - 37.6
OT Bobby Hart - 37.7
TE/FB Tucker Fisk - 46.0
C Bradley Bozeman - 49.3
OT Austin Deculus - 50.1
And I think Johnson was in the 50s somewhere too.
Thank goodness the Dolphins D is bad.
OG Mekhi Becton - 37.6
OT Bobby Hart - 37.7
TE/FB Tucker Fisk - 46.0
C Bradley Bozeman - 49.3
OT Austin Deculus - 50.1
And I think Johnson was in the 50s somewhere too.
Thank goodness the Dolphins D is bad.
Tau837
Footballguy
I can't remember a time when injuries clustered like they have for the OL this season.
3 Chargers OL have played snaps at LT, and none of them are Rashawn Slater, meaning they reached LT4.
5 Chargers OL have played snaps at RT, so they have reached RT5
3 Chargers OL have played snaps at RG, so they have reached RG3
Overall, the Chargers have played 9 OL at the 5 starting OL positions, not including Slater. In 6 games.
Backup OL have played 753 of 2015 snaps (37%) for the 5 starting OL positions. But that is misleading because it misses the clustering as well as the tiering. This past week, the Chargers started their OT4 (Deculus) and OT5 (Hart).
Unfortunately, all of this is compounded by the Chargers playing one of the worst centers in the NFL, who has played every snap... their backup center might actually be better, but the Chargers coaching staff is completely committed to Bozeman.
If Becton can stay in the lineup and Alt can return (probably not this week, but hopefully next week), they have a chance to regain a functional level they have been missing since Alt got hurt.
3 Chargers OL have played snaps at LT, and none of them are Rashawn Slater, meaning they reached LT4.
5 Chargers OL have played snaps at RT, so they have reached RT5
3 Chargers OL have played snaps at RG, so they have reached RG3
Overall, the Chargers have played 9 OL at the 5 starting OL positions, not including Slater. In 6 games.
Backup OL have played 753 of 2015 snaps (37%) for the 5 starting OL positions. But that is misleading because it misses the clustering as well as the tiering. This past week, the Chargers started their OT4 (Deculus) and OT5 (Hart).
Unfortunately, all of this is compounded by the Chargers playing one of the worst centers in the NFL, who has played every snap... their backup center might actually be better, but the Chargers coaching staff is completely committed to Bozeman.
If Becton can stay in the lineup and Alt can return (probably not this week, but hopefully next week), they have a chance to regain a functional level they have been missing since Alt got hurt.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
It's still early, but the 2025 Charger draft 6 games in looks phenomenal thus far.
Rd 1 - Omarion Hampton: Injury sucks, but appears to be a franchise RB
Rd 2 - Tre Harris: Keenan's return & QJ's breakout have limited his opportunities so far, but I'm all in on him from what I've seen. His separation skills are elite, and Charger nerds are raving about his blocking. Harbaugh gave him a game ball after Sunday's win. The coaching staff loves him.
Rd 3 - Jamaree Caldwell: Starting on the DL and looks like he'll start there for the next 4 years.
Rd 4 - Kyle Kennard: no impact thus far, could be a bust
Rd 5 - KeAndre Lambert-Smith: Buried in the deepest WR corps the Chargers have had in decades, but looked great in the preseason and in limited opps through 6 weeks. His 4.37 speed looked good returning kicks on Sunday.
Rd 5 - Oronde Gadsden II: 15 catches in the last 4 games and has emerged as the clear TE1 in the receiving game for LA. Looks like a big WR the way he moves and receives the football. Barring injury, he should catch 70+ balls per season for the Chargers the next 4 years. Absolute steal.
Rd 6 - Branson Taylor: Bust - currently on the practice squad
Rd 6 - RJ Mickens: Had a great preseason, and impressed the coaching staff so much that they traded starting safety Alohi Gilman to Baltimore last week.
Rd 7 - Trikweze Bridges: Bust - waived in the preseason
6 players contributing, with 4 looking like 5 year starters.
Rd 1 - Omarion Hampton: Injury sucks, but appears to be a franchise RB
Rd 2 - Tre Harris: Keenan's return & QJ's breakout have limited his opportunities so far, but I'm all in on him from what I've seen. His separation skills are elite, and Charger nerds are raving about his blocking. Harbaugh gave him a game ball after Sunday's win. The coaching staff loves him.
Rd 3 - Jamaree Caldwell: Starting on the DL and looks like he'll start there for the next 4 years.
Rd 4 - Kyle Kennard: no impact thus far, could be a bust
Rd 5 - KeAndre Lambert-Smith: Buried in the deepest WR corps the Chargers have had in decades, but looked great in the preseason and in limited opps through 6 weeks. His 4.37 speed looked good returning kicks on Sunday.
Rd 5 - Oronde Gadsden II: 15 catches in the last 4 games and has emerged as the clear TE1 in the receiving game for LA. Looks like a big WR the way he moves and receives the football. Barring injury, he should catch 70+ balls per season for the Chargers the next 4 years. Absolute steal.
Rd 6 - Branson Taylor: Bust - currently on the practice squad
Rd 6 - RJ Mickens: Had a great preseason, and impressed the coaching staff so much that they traded starting safety Alohi Gilman to Baltimore last week.
Rd 7 - Trikweze Bridges: Bust - waived in the preseason
6 players contributing, with 4 looking like 5 year starters.
Tau837
Footballguy
Hortiz has drafted well. He has only missed badly on one pick -- Colson. He also missed on every 7th round pick (WR Rice, WR Johnson, DB Bridges) and 6th round OL Taylor, but they are 6th and 7th rounders, so not a big deal. The jury is out on Kennard and KLS. His other 11 picks have provided a strong nucleus for the roster over the next few years: T Alt, RB Hampton, WR McConkey, WR Harris, IDL Caldwell, IDL Eboigbe, TE Gadsden, CB Still, CB Hart, S Mickens, RB Vidal.
Overall, that looks like a very strong draft performance... if you ignore opportunity cost.
The biggest miss of Hortiz's tenure is not drafting a center in the 2024 draft, the most center-rich draft in NFL history. That has left them with Bozeman again, and he is arguably the worst center in the NFL. Bozeman has visibly hurt the team this season.
For a team that wants to prioritize OL, it made sense to draft Alt at 1.5 last year. It does not make sense at all to have drafted just one other OL, likely 6th round bust Taylor, who was an obvious long term project. The OL has visibly hurt the team this season.
For a team that wants to have a strong defense, it is odd not to have spent any 1st or 2nd round picks on that side of the ball. That is why the only premium defensive players on the roster are those Hortiz inherited: Edge Mack and S James, both former 1st round picks.
It seems quite surprising that the Chargers have spent 5 (of 18) picks on WRs and just 2 on OL and 2 on IDL. It feels like priorities may have been skewed a bit in the first two drafts.
I will just choose WR Harris as an example. He might turn out to be a good player, but the team doesn't truly need him right now with McConkey, Johnston, and Allen. Would they have gotten better value, both short and long term, by drafting OL, Edge, or IDL instead of Harris? IMO the answer is pretty obviously yes.
The team is set once again to have major questions on OL and DL next season.
- On the OL, the only players who are currently under contract for 2025 are Slater (coming off major injury), Alt, Becton, and Bozeman. And, again, Bozeman might be the worst center in the NFL.
- On the IDL, the only players who are currently under contract are Caldwell and Eboigbe.
- At Edge, the only players who are currently under contract are Tuli, Kennard, and Dupree, and it is hard for me to believe they will keep Dupree.
Honestly, I am surprised at where the Chargers chose to invest in the second offseason of Hortiz and Harbaugh. In the first offseason, I felt they were more constrained, and they made the best of the situation. But I feel that they botched the second offseason. I hope they prove me wrong, but so far I’m not seeing that.
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rockaction
Footballguy
I don't know, Tau. This seems predicated on a bit of hindsight. Johnston was getting made fun of everywhere (not me because I didn't know enough) and some of those games last year were almost literally through his hands. To put it together like he did for the first four games (and here I depend on Matt Harmon and other sober analysts) was surprising to everybody checking back into the year. Seems like you're saying, "But we had these guys, therefore . . ." and it's not that easy.
Or perhaps they're huge dynasty FF fans and they know to build your team's anchor with WRs.
I'm curious about Eboigbe. How's he looking? Is this development or bad opposition?
Tau837
Footballguy
It is not a hindsight comment from me. I posted a number of times prior to the draft in this thread that I did not think WR should be a draft priority. I posted after the first round that I would not take a WR on day 2 unless the Chargers somehow acquired an extra day 2 pick. Part of my reasoning was that there should have been good value at WR in the 4th round and later, but it was mostly due to my view that they needed IOL, IDL, and Edge players, those are harder to hit on in later rounds, and not taking any of those positions in the 1st round made them the priority in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
As for Eboigbe, he is having a good second season. He was a healthy scratch most of last season, playing just 26 snaps in 5 games. This season, he has played in all 6 games, and his playing time is increasing... here are his snaps in games 1-6 in order: 10, 14, 12, 27, 42, 32. That is 137 snaps so far. He has also shown versatility, with 4 snaps at NT, 51 snaps at what PFF designates as 'BGP' (e.g., 3, 4i techniques), 33 at what PFF designates as 'OVT' (e.g., 4, 5 techniques), and 49 snaps as an edge rusher.
Eboigbe is a good run defender and solid tackler. He is not a good pass rusher, which might cap his playing time somewhat, but maybe he can improve on that over time. He also has the 6th best PFF special teams grade and is tied for 4th on the team with 3 special teams tackles.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Awesome. Thanks for the clarification about it not being hindsight. I certainly trust what you say.
Thanks for the update. I am indeed looking for a bit of a pass rusher at DT, but I love for both his potential and your team that he lines up along the line. Very cool.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
They have done pretty well acquiring talent via the draft. Whether through the draft or free agency, they needed to spend more resources on the offensive line these last two years. I agree they went overboard at WR. It's such an odd blind spot too, given that they'd like to run more effectively on offense.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Overdue congrats on your victory at Hard Rock last week, I actually thought Miami played one of their better games of the season, no shame losing 29-27 to y'all
-Not sure how aware you are of the number of Miami fans that drive a lot of passion on Tua at the 5 and Herbert next at the 6-pick
I was surprised with back up tackles on the OL, Miami couldn't get sacks, I really thought Miami Edge rushers should have chewed those guys up on the pass rush
If you all can survive a few weeks until you get Hampton back, I still think the Chargers have a chance to not just make the Playoffs but be a PLAYER in the post season
I questioned Harbaugh's approach last year as he cleaned house of any one he felt wasn't gonna be a disciple of Jim
I like what they've done with their Wide Receivers. Ladd had a huge play at the end last week, he's still pretty good. Allen, QJ, Ladd and yes the rookie is coming along, Tre Harris
I hope the Chargers are prepared to throw the lights out if need be in order to advance.
What impresses me about Harbaugh at the moment is his ability to pivot and he still has his rules he lives by but his ability to pivot with his players this year
I was hard on Harbaugh last season and very disappointed how much he limited Herbert and his ability to operate but this year they look much different offensively
4-2, 3-way at the top right now in the West
I would think the fan base is excited overall, Alt might be playing this weekend
I don't see teams trade for OL mid season often but it couldn't hurt to add another Tackle or a swing G/T that can play both, even for depth.
I have no idea about your Defense, I typically watch Herbert and the offense and then I'm switching to another on the Ticket
The AFC is still the Chiefs until they get bumped in the Playoffs, Buffalo looks shaky right now, nobody is sold on the Colts just yet, I am maybe but many are skeptical
I still think the Bolts have a decent path to slide into the AFCC, road games at Buffalo and KC in January might derail that if they enter as a Wildcard team
Like what I see, like the team chemistry and the body language/confidence I see from these guys each week. Much better than 2023 with the previous coaches
Cheers!
-Not sure how aware you are of the number of Miami fans that drive a lot of passion on Tua at the 5 and Herbert next at the 6-pick
I was surprised with back up tackles on the OL, Miami couldn't get sacks, I really thought Miami Edge rushers should have chewed those guys up on the pass rush
If you all can survive a few weeks until you get Hampton back, I still think the Chargers have a chance to not just make the Playoffs but be a PLAYER in the post season
I questioned Harbaugh's approach last year as he cleaned house of any one he felt wasn't gonna be a disciple of Jim
I like what they've done with their Wide Receivers. Ladd had a huge play at the end last week, he's still pretty good. Allen, QJ, Ladd and yes the rookie is coming along, Tre Harris
I hope the Chargers are prepared to throw the lights out if need be in order to advance.
What impresses me about Harbaugh at the moment is his ability to pivot and he still has his rules he lives by but his ability to pivot with his players this year
I was hard on Harbaugh last season and very disappointed how much he limited Herbert and his ability to operate but this year they look much different offensively
4-2, 3-way at the top right now in the West
I would think the fan base is excited overall, Alt might be playing this weekend
I don't see teams trade for OL mid season often but it couldn't hurt to add another Tackle or a swing G/T that can play both, even for depth.
I have no idea about your Defense, I typically watch Herbert and the offense and then I'm switching to another on the Ticket
The AFC is still the Chiefs until they get bumped in the Playoffs, Buffalo looks shaky right now, nobody is sold on the Colts just yet, I am maybe but many are skeptical
I still think the Bolts have a decent path to slide into the AFCC, road games at Buffalo and KC in January might derail that if they enter as a Wildcard team
Like what I see, like the team chemistry and the body language/confidence I see from these guys each week. Much better than 2023 with the previous coaches
Cheers!
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
A lot of extra help was thrown at blocking the edges from the WRs, TE's and such. Quick passes helped as well. A recipe I hope they continue to cook up this week.
Yeah many of us really saw how badly they needed help on both sides of the line. Even without QJ this weekend the WR targets were much better than the line play.
Without Mack our run defense is atrocious. I hate to sound like a broken record, but letting Ford get away was an awful move. He’s doing great for the Rams and we could have really used him these last few games.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Agree that in hindsight more OL depth, particularly at C, would be the revision if we could do the Charger draft over. That said, it feels great as a fan having 5 guys I feel are going to catch everything thrown their way; last year it was Ladd and nothing else. Obviously we had no idea at draft time that Keenan was coming back and QJ’s emergence was unlikely, so hard to fault Horitz for taking Harris when he was such a great fit late in the 2nd.
Agree wholeheartedly that a Center has to be priority 1 next offseason, as well as additional help for the DL and Edge.
Agree wholeheartedly that a Center has to be priority 1 next offseason, as well as additional help for the DL and Edge.
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
We did! Too bad he can't play center or tackle.Did we draft a franchise, Pro Bowlish TE in the 5th round?
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