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***Chicago Bears Thread*** Ben Johnson hired. The Resurrection Begins! (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter flapgreen
- Start date
The Tick
Footballguy
Yeah, I was dying for a TE with that second round pick because there were a lot of good ones in this draft. Was nervous when he was the pick of the bunch, but excited for the potential. He better work out, 2nd round picks can't be wasted when you are trying to rebuild a team through the draft.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
This is just awesome news.
Signed,
MIN D/ST owner.
Signed,
MIN D/ST owner.
flapgreen
Footballguy
You're much better off facing Glennon.This is just awesome news.
Signed,
MIN D/ST owner.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
twistd
Footballguy
Did you watch the Ravens against the Jags in London? The defense played well against the Browns and the Bengals, two teams really struggling on offense. They got lit up by the Jaguars and pounded by the Steelers, both teams that haven't been lighting it up against anyone else. The Ravens gave up 70 points to the Jags and the Steelers. So yes, I don't care where the Ravens are ranked, the Ravens are a bad defense.Dr. Dan said:
14th best in Points allowed per game (20.0)
17th best in Passing yards allowed per game
Hardly "bad"... more like average.
Minnesota on the other hand:
8th best in Points allowed per game (19.0... a whole 1 less point)
24th in Passing yards allowed per game
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flapgreen
Footballguy
-X-
Footballguy
Couple of interesting articles on rookie QBs:
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/when-to-start-your-rookie-quarterback-050715/
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/72690/446/how-rookie-qbs-impact-fantasy?pg=2
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/when-to-start-your-rookie-quarterback-050715/
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/72690/446/how-rookie-qbs-impact-fantasy?pg=2
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Fair point.
I heard somewhere where the Vikings are practically unbeatable if they score 21 points or over within the last 5 or 6 years or something. And it shows this season... they haven't given up more than 20 points once.
Vikings have a good defense, and I wouldn't be thrilled about trotting out a rookie QB in his first game to them. However, I am not so sure the Ravens have such a terrible defense... someone in another thread was calling them best in the league earlier this season... can't believe within 2 weeks I've read they're the best to they're "bad"
az_prof
Footballguy
I do expect Trubisky to be an improvement and that should help everyone in offense. He is more capable of going downfield and while I don't expect more passes to Cohen, I think he should have more room to run after catch. Likewise, if Trubisky is more effective, then the offense is on field more and in scoring position more so it helps Howard too. Tough first matchup, so I am less interested in final results and more interested to see his decision-making, his poise, how quickly he gets rid of the ball, etc.
waterworld
Footballguy
Absolutely unacceptable from a second round pick. #### like that is why this organization is in the position its in. Throwing high picks in the garbage.
twistd
Footballguy
I think that we are discovering that a lot of teams are not what they seem. The Bills are leading the AFC east. The Jets are tied with the Patriots. The Patriots have lost two at home. The Rams are leading the NFC West. The Jaguars are tied for first in the AFC South. The Giants and the Chargers are winless. Not what I expected. And I think that we are going to discover that the AFC Central teams aren't very good. Things move fast in the NFL.
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-X-
Footballguy
They'd better promote Gentry. Him and Trubador are like peas and carrots. I'll bet Shaheen starts getting more on-field time and more targets as well.
Watching Wilson, Prescott and Watson yesterday has me excited to see some moving pockets, bootlegs and misdirection.
Tired of "pure" pocket passers.
Watching Wilson, Prescott and Watson yesterday has me excited to see some moving pockets, bootlegs and misdirection.
Tired of "pure" pocket passers.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’ve seen Glennon throw a touchdown.
I ain’t see Mitch do jack #### yet.
im rolling out Vikes D/ST anyway, but I feel like there’s a good chance for a dumb mistake. Rookie QBs do not often bust out of the gate with Peyton Manning-esque performances
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
To be fair, most NFL TEs spend their first 1-2 seasons blocking.
I realize the position has evolved, and there are exceptions to the rule, but there’s no shame in taking receivers and developing them. The NFL is the elite of the elite - sometimes it takes time for young players to step up to the next level of competition.
It takes time for the game to slow down, especially at the receiver position.
Related to FFB, seems like the demand for instant gratification is what drives the phenomenon of the “post hype sleeper”. Amari Cooper is a good example. He’s having a pretty bad year. Assuming his mediocre season continues he’s, then next year he’ll go from a 2nd round bust to a potential 5th round bargain.
Back to your post, I don’t consider a 2nd round TE taking time to develop throwing picks in the garbage. Hopefully he works out for the Bears...FFB can always use more pass catching TEs.
waterworld
Footballguy
Man, it's 2017. It's unacceptable to use a second round pick on a blocking TE. This kind of stuff is what seperate teams that win with perennial losers like us.To be fair, most NFL TEs spend their first 1-2 seasons blocking.
I realize the position has evolved, and there are exceptions to the rule, but there’s no shame in taking receivers and developing them. The NFL is the elite of the elite - sometimes it takes time for young players to step up to the next level of competition.
It takes time for the game to slow down, especially at the receiver position.
Related to FFB, seems like the demand for instant gratification is what drives the phenomenon of the “post hype sleeper”. Amari Cooper is a good example. He’s having a pretty bad year. Assuming his mediocre season continues he’s, then next year he’ll go from a 2nd round bust to a potential 5th round bargain.
Back to your post, I don’t consider a 2nd round TE taking time to develop throwing picks in the garbage. Hopefully he works out for the Bears...FFB can always use more pass catching TEs.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Boone22
Footballguy
We’ve also seen Glennon turn the ball over 8 times in 4 games so I’m not sure it can get much worse.
Glennon is leading the NFL in fumbles with 3 lost
He’s tied for 3rd in the NFL in interceptions with 5.
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flapgreen
Footballguy
Glennon has been the worst starting qb in the league this year, by a mile. There's a difference in saying Trubisky will be better than the worst qb in the league and Peyton Manning. You understand that, right?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
-X-
Footballguy
Let's take a look at Manning's rookie year, shall we?
http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonmanning/2501863/gamelogs?season=1998
For the lazy, he was a horrible turnover machine, throwing 3 INTs in each of his first two games and 28 for the season. This team is equally as bad as that Colts team (3-13).
That's the measuring stick I'm using, not when he was in his prime.
Bears will bring Trubador along slowly.
http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonmanning/2501863/gamelogs?season=1998
For the lazy, he was a horrible turnover machine, throwing 3 INTs in each of his first two games and 28 for the season. This team is equally as bad as that Colts team (3-13).
That's the measuring stick I'm using, not when he was in his prime.
Bears will bring Trubador along slowly.
flapgreen
Footballguy
flapgreen
Footballguy
That's the whole point here. They can protect Mitch, so that's not an issue. Put him in there and he'll be further ahead in his development by next year than was expected. It's going to end up being a positive for the franchise. Fox and Loggains will be gone. Pace looks like an idiot with Glennon, but it won't matter if Mitch succeeds.
flapgreen
Footballguy
So when teams talk about redshirting QBs as rookies, you can refer back to this chart of when all the first-rounders got their first starts. https://t.co/FmANUhjz3t
I don't think any reliable data exists. There's no way of knowing if a guy would have turned out better/worse if he started earlier/later than he did, so that chart is pretty meaningless.
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Hawkeye21
Footballguy
My thought has now become if you draft a QB in the early first round then he should be playing.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Just as good of a theory as any. I lean towards taking it case by case, but there's no right or wrong answer (even in hindsight).
Hankmoody
Footballguy
As long as he can protect himself, sure. If he can't read a blitz and can't call out protections he can't be on the field. That's the only reason to be concerned about Trubisky. In his limited time he looked pretty aware and used his mobility well so as long as he's not getting killed out there then he should be kept out there regardless of the statistics. Reps reps reps is all that matters right now.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
When the alternative to him playing can't do any of that either you might as well let your second overall pick play and get the experience. I would feel different about it if Glennon wasn't just about the worst QB the Bears have ever had.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I'm agreeing with you, as long as he can protect himself. They don't care if Glennon gets himself killed, he's not their future. You can't put Trubisky out there though if he can't keep himself upright. He has to see and feel the rush and get rid of the ball, cover up when he can't, move around the pocket and not take huge hits. Until he can you trot out Glennon and Sanchez to be sacrificial lambs.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
See I disagree completely with this logic. The only consideration should be what's in the best interest of Trubisky and the Bears longer term. If you think that's playing him now, that's what you do. If you think that's sitting him longer, then that's what you do. That really should be the only consideration (obviously it won't be with coaches and front office members on the hot seat, but it should be).
-X-
Footballguy
I guess you guys didn't have time to read the articles I posted on the subject, so here is one of them again (from 2015):Hawkeye21 said:
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/when-to-start-your-rookie-quarterback-050715/
You can go back and look at the other, which is more fantasy-based.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Mostly true, but there's a huge difference between making mistakes and not knowing what you're looking at. He has gotten a whole lot more prepared watching film and learning what other teams' blitz and rush packages look like and then taking that to practice and having it mocked up for him. That's why it's valuable to sit a guy the first few games. Opponents aren't showing their full scheme in preseason. Now he has 4 weeks of film on Minnesota to go look at and spend 10 days preparing for. They can get the scout team out there and line it up, show him the keys and reads, and work on the protection calls. And he's been doing that on a general level for the prior 4 weeks too. He's far more prepared now than he was in preseason. Whether or not he's prepared now we can't say, that requires live action to evaluate. As long as he doesn't get killed he should be out there- he'll make progress quickly enough.
waterworld
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Wouldn't you start the Vikings defense regardless since they are good? Would it make a difference which one of the Bear's QBs were starting?I am too - like I said, I'm starting the Vikings D/ST!
