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***Chicago Bears Thread*** Ben Johnson hired. The Resurrection Begins! (2 Viewers)

Hawkeye21 said:
Wouldn't you start the Vikings defense regardless since they are good?  Would it make a difference which one of the Bear's QBs were starting?
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Well, uh, yeah. 

Fine, bring logic to the discussion. Be that way. Hmph. 

(Bengals, my other D/ST, are thought to have a better outlook per CBS FWIW)

;)  

 
Calling my shot. Bears go 7-5 rest of way and finish 8-8 with Mitch. Fox still gets fired. Bring in Carmichael or Cooter. 

 
Shutout said:
That was a lot of dough to spend on a guy who lasted a whole month.
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Huge outcry from many Bears fans when Glennon was signed. This was why.  That's why I always laugh when someone says the GM and coaches do this for a living so we shouldn't question them. Nope

 
flapgreen said:
Calling my shot. Bears go 7-5 rest of way and finish 8-8 with Mitch. Fox still gets fired. Bring in Carmichael or Cooter. 
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You are living in fantasy world. The Bears are one of the worst five teams in the league. They'll be lucky to win 5 games for the season. This is a really bad football team. Trubisky isn't going to make much difference at all. I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up 3-13. Fox should have already been fired.

 
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twistd said:
You are living in fantasy world. The Bears are one of the worst five teams in the league. They'll be lucky to win 5 games for the season. This is a really bad football team. Trubisky isn't going to make much difference at all. I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up 3-13. Fox should have already been fired.
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A terrible qb will make an entire team look bad. They're not nearly as bad as they've looked in Glennon's worst games. If Trubisky plays well, they're far from a bottom 5 team 

 
twistd said:
You are living in fantasy world. The Bears are one of the worst five teams in the league. They'll be lucky to win 5 games for the season. This is a really bad football team. Trubisky isn't going to make much difference at all. I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up 3-13. Fox should have already been fired.
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I think it's worthwhile considering the FF implications.

 
I am starting Trubisky this week as a bye week filler and I am pretty confident.  I really liked what I saw from him in the preseason.

 
Mike Glennon is laughing all the way to the bank. With any sense he'll take his NFL earnings and spend that judiciously over the rest of his (retired) life

 
twistd said:
You are living in fantasy world. The Bears are one of the worst five teams in the league. They'll be lucky to win 5 games for the season. This is a really bad football team. Trubisky isn't going to make much difference at all. I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up 3-13. Fox should have already been fired.
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And the Jets can't possibly win a game and the Bills are shooting for a top 5 pick and a franchise QB in the draft next year.

 
I am hopeful for Trubisky, but to those who say there is no evidence that red shirting can help a QB long term, I would offer a few examples.

Tom Brady: barely played his rookie year as he sat behind Drew Bledsoe; second season he took over and the rest is history.

Drew Brees: Took over from Doug Flutie in his second season.

Aaron Rodgers: spent 3 years behind Brett Favre before exploding.

I do think the college game has changed and QBs come in probably better prepared for pro-style offenses and more passing heavy offenses. Every one is unique and their college experience unique.

As much as I want Trubisky to succeed, I have to admit that he does not have extensive college experience (only 1 year as a starter) and 98% of his drop backs came from Shotgun.  So he does look like someone who might benefit from some time and mentorship.

That being said, I tend to believe that talent rises to the top and I do believe he has talent.  Just felt like some response was needed to counter the claim that "no evidence exists that delaying a QB becoming starter has any benefit."  It is probably impossible to prove either way but there certainly are a number of cases where some of our best QBs did delay becoming starter with positive results.

 
Grahamburn said:
I'm confident he's your only option. 
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This kind of ad hominem opinion really doesn't help anyone trying to decide whether to start or acquire Trubisky.  Yes, Brees is on bye but if I wasn't fairly confident in him I could find someone else on waivers.  

Note that I am also aware of the challenge he faces in terms of inexperience and a poor surrounding cast.  But I watched his pre-season games and am confident based on the skills he showed: good judgement; quick decision-making; accurate arm; ability to make a variety of throws from short, medium to deep; leadership.  Yes, most of that was against second stringers but his OL was second string too and he was often under pressure and didn't have a lot of time.

Check him out in preseason and judge for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixFnykZJ-BM

 
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Long on Trubisky: "He was born an athlete, he happened to become a quarterback, so Mitch has the ability to extend plays."

 
 OK Bears homers...........

 Many times when a rookie QB is thrust on stage like this, he usually goes with the bonds he formed in practices a fair amount.

Which Bears WR will be the one to own now that Trubisky is going to start?

In the limited preseason action I saw, Deonte Thompson was a frequent target. Or will it be Kendall Wright or even Josh Bellamy?

I'm personally guessing Wright or Thompson.

Just trying to sniff out a WR3-ish type player.

 TZM

 
TZMarkie said:
 OK Bears homers...........

 Many times when a rookie QB is thrust on stage like this, he usually goes with the bonds he formed in practices a fair amount.

Which Bears WR will be the one to own now that Trubisky is going to start?

In the limited preseason action I saw, Deonte Thompson was a frequent target. Or will it be Kendall Wright or even Josh Bellamy?

I'm personally guessing Wright or Thompson.

Just trying to sniff out a WR3-ish type player.

 TZM
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Bears homer here. 

This is a tough one. Mainly because our whole WR corp consists of all practice-squad players. Seriously, this may be the saddest set of WR's in the league. Aside from Howard, Cohen, and possibly Miller, you're likely better off starting any other WR. 

 
4th&inches said:
Bears homer here. 

This is a tough one. Mainly because our whole WR corp consists of all practice-squad players. Seriously, this may be the saddest set of WR's in the league. Aside from Howard, Cohen, and possibly Miller, you're likely better off starting any other WR. 
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Yeah I know its a tough situation....but this strikes me as a potential "WR2-3 out-of-nowhere" type scenario.

My leagues are mandatory "START 3WRs" and those low end WR2s with upside make for intriguing plays, especially if you can capitalize and move on them before your league mates.

In one league, I am looking for a dependable WR3 type, and in another I have Amari Cooper as my WR2.

In fact, I might replace Cooper with basically anyone that can fog a mirror. :wall:

So often, these rookie QBs seem to lock on to a trusted target (from practice) and it translates over into real games.

You can never be sure, but its almost a LOCK, one of these guys becomes a clear #1, and in leagues like mine, they are easily startable.

 Like flap says, I kind of lean Thompson from the little action I have seen, but to NOT go to the more experienced Kendall Wright is odd.

I am thinking one of these Bears WRs is going to be a hot waiver wire commodity this week.  I am almost debating dropping some end of bench RB depth guy, and just throwing a dart at one to see if I get the right one. At worst, if one has a big day and you happen to land him, you could always use him as trade bait.

 TZM

 
OH, another thing I just dug up. (aside from any Bears receivers being on most waiver wires)

 KENDALL WRIGHT - Owned in only 14% of Yahoo leagues.      18 TARGETS IN WEEKS 1,2,4 COMBINED.   (I think he missed week 3)

 DEONTE THOMPSON - Owned in only 2% of Yahoo leagues.  18 TARGETS IN WEEKS 1,2,3,4 COMBINED.

 JOSH BELLAMY - Owned in 0% of Yahoo leagues.  17 TARGETS IN WEEKS 1,2,4 COMBINED. (He may have missed week 3 as well, but I am not sure)

 The play here is almost 100% going to be a choice between KENDALL WRIGHT, or DEONTE THOMPSON.

IMPORTANT NOTE  A. - THEY ARE @ HOME VS SF. IN WEEK 13. (thats going to be a must-win week for many of us)

IMPORTANT NOTE  B. - THEY ARE @ HOME VS. CLEVELAND IN CHAMPIONSIP WEEK 16.    :thumbup:

If we snag a lightning bolt here, and the QB gets a strong rapport with one of these guys, they could help you win your league. 

 TZM

 

 
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Hawkeye21 said:
He's not the first and he won't be the last to do it either.
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Charlie Whitehurst made almost $18 million in an eleven year career. He was with five different teams. He had 372 total pass attempts. Works out to $46,701 per pass attempt in his career. He has one passing TD and one interception. He could be the poster child for the back up QB who had a long career and did nothing.

 
twistd said:
Charlie Whitehurst made almost $18 million in an eleven year career. He was with five different teams. He had 372 total pass attempts. Works out to $46,701 per pass attempt in his career. He has one passing TD and one interception. He could be the poster child for the back up QB who had a long career and did nothing.
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Remember Matt Flynn with Seattle?  Similar to the Bear's situation.

 
4th&inches said:
Bears homer here. 

This is a tough one. Mainly because our whole WR corp consists of all practice-squad players. Seriously, this may be the saddest set of WR's in the league. Aside from Howard, Cohen, and possibly Miller, you're likely better off starting any other WR. 
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I think Wright would probably be able to start as a slot receiver with a lot of teams. But you are right, the rest of the WRs are garbage.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
Remember Matt Flynn with Seattle?  Similar to the Bear's situation.
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You are right. Flynn was brought in to be the starter and Russell Wilson beat him out. However, Flynn started games in Green Bay and looked good. He started a total of seven games in his career, six with the Packers. He earned close to $19 million in his career.

 
flapgreen said:
Somewhat. Flynn didn't get paid near what Glennon did and the Bears didn't really make it an open competition to start out like the Seahawks 
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Flynn got a starters contract at the time. Glennon was overpaid. I thought signing Glennon was a good thing, I thought he would be serviceable as a starter. What I didn't understand was the Bears were bidding against themselves with Glennon. No one else was clamoring to sign him. They could have gotten him a lot cheaper. And it seems he is not good as a starter. Although, he would look a lot better with good coaching and good skill position players around him.

 
Unless Trubisky turns in to a franchise QB the Bears made a big mistake spending a high draft pick, and a lot of draft capital on Trubisky.  They could have rolled with Glennon and next season taken a QB out of a much better draft class. Chances are they will have a top five draft pick in the 2018 draft.  Or they could have grabbed one of the free agents. There are some very good free agents, Brees, Bradford, Garappolo, Bridgewater, Cousins, and I think McCarron is available. A lot of good options in free agency, and a better draft class. If Trubisky turns in to a franchise QB it won't matter. But if he doesn't, the Bears have set themselves back for a good five years. 

 
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flapgreen said:
Thompson is my guess 
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I noticed that he seemed to like Thompson as well.

Thompson didn't look as good with Glennon in the game against the Packers. I have kind of had my eye on Thompson because of the connection I saw with him and Mitch in preseason.

Still think Wright is the best bet if you have to start a Bears receiver though.

 
TZMarkie said:
So often, these rookie QBs seem to lock on to a trusted target (from practice) and it translates over into real games.
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This happens with a lot of back up QB not just the rookies.

For example in the first game that Case Keenum played Treadwell had a spike in targets and playing time.

It isn't something that necessarily lasts for more than a few games though. Once the back up is practicing with the starters, they start building trust with those players more.

 
Seattle ended up paying $8M to Flynn, which was 6.6% of the 2012 salary cap. (They would've been on the hook for $10M which was guaranteed in his contract, but they were able to trade him to Oakland for a 5th round pick after the 2012 season.)

The Bears gave Glennon $18.5M guaranteed, which is 11.1% of the 2017 salary cap.

So Glennon cost CHI 1.67 times as much as Flynn cost SEA, relative to the cap.

 
twistd said:
Unless Trubisky turns in to a franchise QB the Bears made a big mistake spending a high draft pick, and a lot of draft capital on Trubisky.  They could have rolled with Glennon and next season taken a QB out of a much better draft class. Chances are they will have a top five draft pick in the 2018 draft.  Or they could have grabbed one of the free agents. There are some very good free agents, Brees, Bradford, Garappolo, Bridgewater, Cousins, and I think McCarron is available. A lot of good options in free agency, and a better draft class. If Trubisky turns in to a franchise QB it won't matter. But if he doesn't, the Bears have set themselves back for a good five years. 
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R.C. Fisher says Trubisky might be the best QB he's ever scouted.

 
twistd said:
Unless Trubisky turns in to a franchise QB the Bears made a big mistake spending a high draft pick, and a lot of draft capital on Trubisky.  They could have rolled with Glennon and next season taken a QB out of a much better draft class. Chances are they will have a top five draft pick in the 2018 draft.  Or they could have grabbed one of the free agents. There are some very good free agents, Brees, Bradford, Garappolo, Bridgewater, Cousins, and I think McCarron is available. A lot of good options in free agency, and a better draft class. If Trubisky turns in to a franchise QB it won't matter. But if he doesn't, the Bears have set themselves back for a good five years. 
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No one knows if next year's draft class is going to be great or not.  They had the opportunity to get their guy and they did it.  No sense in talking about the last draft right now.

 
ZWK said:
Seattle ended up paying $8M to Flynn, which was 6.6% of the 2012 salary cap. (They would've been on the hook for $10M which was guaranteed in his contract, but they were able to trade him to Oakland for a 5th round pick after the 2012 season.)

The Bears gave Glennon $18.5M guaranteed, which is 11.1% of the 2017 salary cap.

So Glennon cost CHI 1.67 times as much as Flynn cost SEA, relative to the cap.
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Seems to be in line for the most part with how much the salary cap has gone up along with how much starting QBs are getting paid.  The contract for Glennon still isn't bad since it's basically setup to only have him for one year.

Five years ago Flynn was given a 3 year contract for 26M with 10M guaranteed.  He had the 22nd highest average contract and 27th most guaranteed.

Glennon's deal is a 3 year contract for 45M with 18.5M guaranteed.  He has the 21st highest average contract and 24th most guaranteed.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
Seems to be in line for the most part with how much the salary cap has gone up along with how much starting QBs are getting paid.  The contract for Glennon still isn't bad since it's basically setup to only have him for one year.

Five years ago Flynn was given a 3 year contract for 26M with 10M guaranteed.  He had the 22nd highest average contract and 27th most guaranteed.

Glennon's deal is a 3 year contract for 45M with 18.5M guaranteed.  He has the 21st highest average contract and 24th most guaranteed.
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Rankings are misleading here because there is a huge drop in salaries right around there. Glennon has the 21st highest average (amt per year) among QBs, but if he was paid half as much then he would only drop to 22nd.

$15M for Glennon is the 21st highest average salary.
$10M for Cutler is the 22nd highest average salary.
$7.3M for Trubisky is the 23rd highest average salary.

Glennon gets $18.5M if he's cut him at the end of the season, Flynn got the equivalent of $13.8M if he'd been cut after one season ($10M then, with a 38% increase to the salary cap), Cutler gets $10M, Hoyer $9.9M, and McCown $6.0M.

 
ZWK said:
Seattle ended up paying $8M to Flynn, which was 6.6% of the 2012 salary cap. (They would've been on the hook for $10M which was guaranteed in his contract, but they were able to trade him to Oakland for a 5th round pick after the 2012 season.)

The Bears gave Glennon $18.5M guaranteed, which is 11.1% of the 2017 salary cap.

So Glennon cost CHI 1.67 times as much as Flynn cost SEA, relative to the cap.
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There we go. Thanks 

 
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