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***Chicago Bears Thread*** Ben Johnson hired. The Resurrection Begins! (15 Viewers)

flapgreen said:
Best QB of the future, no doubt.  Howard may be the best RB in the entire league.  Howard/Cohen are definitely the best duo. 
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It's a little too soon to rule out Rodgers as a "QB of the future" imo, but calling Trubisky the best QB in the division in the 2020s is in line with what we can see now.  

I think I'll wait till the other three teams find their next QB to pass that judgment though.

Howard/Cohen ahead of Freeman/Coleman?  That could be an interesting debate...

 
Loggains and the offense is still a mess but hoping they can get it together and string together some wins. Maybe wishful thinking 

 
Never had less confidence in a HC after a win than this. No need for change of thread title. Defense destroying. Offense getting exponentially worse. 

 
flapgreen said:
Never had less confidence in a HC after a win than this. No need for change of thread title. Defense destroying. Offense getting exponentially worse. 
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The defense is definitely playing really well. The offense isn't really getting worse. They have been this bad all along. Although, I think you may be right about the o-line. It does seem to be getting worse. Last week I heard Ross Tucker say he did the Bears/Ravens game and he said the performance by the WRs of the Bears was the worst he had ever seen. They were getting no separation at all. 

The staff is doing a good job protecting Trubisky. They are running the ball a lot and not expecting him to throw. What I wonder is how things will be when they are playing from behind. They did nothing offensively. I like that they are simplifying the offense, rolling Trubisky out of the pocket, and calling plays to get the ball out of his hands quickly. This is like the Bears of old, run the crap out of the ball, play good defense, and only throw when you have to.

 
twistd said:
The defense is definitely playing really well. The offense isn't really getting worse. They have been this bad all along. Although, I think you may be right about the o-line. It does seem to be getting worse. Last week I heard Ross Tucker say he did the Bears/Ravens game and he said the performance by the WRs of the Bears was the worst he had ever seen. They were getting no separation at all. 

The staff is doing a good job protecting Trubisky. They are running the ball a lot and not expecting him to throw. What I wonder is how things will be when they are playing from behind. They did nothing offensively. I like that they are simplifying the offense, rolling Trubisky out of the pocket, and calling plays to get the ball out of his hands quickly. This is like the Bears of old, run the crap out of the ball, play good defense, and only throw when you have to.
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The play calling has been so bad. It's shocking these guys keep a job. They're worried about hurting his confidence by throwing him to the wolves. They're hurting it just as much with the garbage they're putting out there. They're not developing Mitch. They're holding him captive and not letting him get any real experience. The last two weeks have been such a joke with what they've done with him.  No game rhythm. Kid has to wonder what the #### is going on.  Until Fox and Noggains are gone, Mitch will never develop into anything.  Everyone already knew that before now.  They're just proving it true. Unreal incompetency. 

 
2 dropped passes against Atlanta and an eternal screw job from refs in the Vikings game from being 5-2. All with a nonexistent offense 

 
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14 dropbacks by Trubisky against the Panthers:

4 complete passes (2 for first downs)
3 incomplete passes
1 illegal formation penalty (wiped out a complete pass)
2 scrambles (0 for first downs)
4 sacks

 
ZWK said:
14 dropbacks by Trubisky against the Panthers:

4 complete passes (2 for first downs)
3 incomplete passes
1 illegal formation penalty (wiped out a complete pass)
2 scrambles (0 for first downs)
4 sacks
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He gets my Pro Bowl vote.  :shrug:

 
Gotta hand it to Fox and Loggains I guess. I didn't think it was possible to win a game of football in 2017 with your QB throwing 7 passes. Unreal.

 
See the real problem here is that the McCaskeys suck. They don't give a #### about winning. The Bears are basically the Cubs before yesteryear when nobody in management or ownership cared because butts were still in the seats. But seeing as they aren't going anywhere...

I hope these recent games at least show that Fangio knows his #### and is coaching up what talent he has. Speaking of that talent, there appears to be quite a bit of it on defense. I wish I knew who too attribute that to because as much as Pace is probably deserving of some of this praise, his bumbles on offense can't be overlooked. He gave us Howard and Cohen and has stuck us with Trubisky and whatever the hell you want to call our WR corps. Long story short, promote Fangio to HC, get an OC who knows how to do an offense more productive than a high school JV team, and either boot Pace or get someone to look over his shoulder and stop him when he tries to torch our offense further in the off season

 
Thompson with 104 yds today in his first game with Buffalo.  But I thought our WRs couldn't get open?  The only one who can got cut? 

 
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#Bears ST coach Jeff Rodgers on the team cutting Deonte Thompson: "You'd have to speak to the head coach or the GM about that decision."

 
gabes1919 said:
See the real problem here is that the McCaskeys suck. They don't give a #### about winning. The Bears are basically the Cubs before yesteryear when nobody in management or ownership cared because butts were still in the seats. But seeing as they aren't going anywhere...

I hope these recent games at least show that Fangio knows his #### and is coaching up what talent he has. Speaking of that talent, there appears to be quite a bit of it on defense. I wish I knew who too attribute that to because as much as Pace is probably deserving of some of this praise, his bumbles on offense can't be overlooked. He gave us Howard and Cohen and has stuck us with Trubisky and whatever the hell you want to call our WR corps. Long story short, promote Fangio to HC, get an OC who knows how to do an offense more productive than a high school JV team, and either boot Pace or get someone to look over his shoulder and stop him when he tries to torch our offense further in the off season
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See Thompson 

 
flapgreen said:
See Thompson 
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Exactly. And we gave how much money to Wheaton? I actually applauded the Wright flyer but he is not being used and probably not suited to be the #1 here. Slot guys make their hay on route running but Trubisky looks incapable of throwing with anticipation or throwing a guy open. He needs them to be back breakingly separated to make the throw and good luck with that on the WRs we have left. But who knows, maybe Trubisky is in a Jared Goff situation here. Maybe we'll find our Sean McVay this offseason. More likely we just hire Jeff Fisher.

 
gabes1919 said:
Exactly. And we gave how much money to Wheaton? I actually applauded the Wright flyer but he is not being used and probably not suited to be the #1 here. Slot guys make their hay on route running but Trubisky looks incapable of throwing with anticipation or throwing a guy open. He needs them to be back breakingly separated to make the throw and good luck with that on the WRs we have left. But who knows, maybe Trubisky is in a Jared Goff situation here. Maybe we'll find our Sean McVay this offseason. More likely we just hire Jeff Fisher.
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Not sure why you would conclude that about Trubisky - he's barely been asked to throw a pass. I do think this is a Goff situation though.

 
RushHour said:
Not sure why you would conclude that about Trubisky - he's barely been asked to throw a pass. I do think this is a Goff situation though.
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There's almost no information on Trubisky. They're not giving him a chance to fail OR succeed.  Just sticking him out there doing nothing. Hell of a way to instill confidence in your rookie. Incompetence st it's  best. 

 
flapgreen said:
There's almost no information on Trubisky. They're not giving him a chance to fail OR succeed.  Just sticking him out there doing nothing. Hell of a way to instill confidence in your rookie. Incompetence st it's  best.
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It's hard to be too critical - relying on their defense to generate turnovers and focusing exclusively on the run game allows them to be competitive. Their WR's group is staggeringly bad, the worst in the NFL (remember when people were saying the Jets WRs were the worst group to ever set foot on a field?), so I'm somewhat sympathetic to the approach. However, at some point you need to have some balance. What are they going to do when they get down in a game by 2 or 3 TDs? Trubisky has had no opportunity to develop in game chemistry with the WRs he does have, and when the time does come when he has to throw, I can't imagine it will go well.  

I'm disappointed in this situation as a football fan really - I want to see talented players excel and I really believe Trubisky is the most talented QB in this class and not someone a team needs to protect or hide. So to see him reduced to nothing more than a game manager (and that's generous - most game managers get to throw more than he does) is kind of depressing. I want to see what the kid can do. Even in the limited passes he has thrown, there have been a handful that I think show rare ability.

 
I'm with you. But I'm not surprised at what's happening. I don't think a lot of other people are either. It's John Fox and Dowell Loggains. 

 
flapgreen said:
There's almost no information on Trubisky. They're not giving him a chance to fail OR succeed.  Just sticking him out there doing nothing. Hell of a way to instill confidence in your rookie. Incompetence st it's  best. 
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This is a rare time where I agree with you, but that's precisely why it's so absurd for you to be crowning him (or any of the rookie/college QB's).

flapgreen said:
That 2018 class turning it around yet or nah? The QBs drafted this year were the worst in decades. Right? 
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That's more like it, you're back to saying a bunch of crap that I never said. Now that you've brought it up though, let's stick with your awful logic for a minute- how's your boy Kizer looking?  :lmao:

 
Congrats on the win Bears fans.  We should be relegated for losing to a Fox coached team.

 
RushHour said:
It's hard to be too critical - relying on their defense to generate turnovers and focusing exclusively on the run game allows them to be competitive. Their WR's group is staggeringly bad, the worst in the NFL (remember when people were saying the Jets WRs were the worst group to ever set foot on a field?), so I'm somewhat sympathetic to the approach. However, at some point you need to have some balance. What are they going to do when they get down in a game by 2 or 3 TDs? Trubisky has had no opportunity to develop in game chemistry with the WRs he does have, and when the time does come when he has to throw, I can't imagine it will go well.  

I'm disappointed in this situation as a football fan really - I want to see talented players excel and I really believe Trubisky is the most talented QB in this class and not someone a team needs to protect or hide. So to see him reduced to nothing more than a game manager (and that's generous - most game managers get to throw more than he does) is kind of depressing. I want to see what the kid can do. Even in the limited passes he has thrown, there have been a handful that I think show rare ability.
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On top of that John Fox of all coaches should know that you don't just get fired for wins/loss records.  If he wins out (ok not going to happen) but all the games look like that where they don't let Trubisky try anything, I think he's more likely to get fired then if he only wins two or three more games this year with an offense that by the end of the year is throwing for a couple hundred yards, some TD's and not too many int's per game.  Basically starting to look like a real NFL offense.

I just don't think that's game experience for him, he needs to try things, some of them will, and probably need to fail so he can go, "wow, those safety's close fast in this league, I can't do it like that".  It's how you learn.  Now our D is not going to be able to hold NO to 3 points most likely, so he's going to have to do something on offense.  I think up two scores would have been a good time to run things as opposed to being a scared little ##### and not wanting to lose the lead and ending up with almost no first downs in the second half.

 
The Tick said:
On top of that John Fox of all coaches should know that you don't just get fired for wins/loss records.  If he wins out (ok not going to happen) but all the games look like that where they don't let Trubisky try anything, I think he's more likely to get fired then if he only wins two or three more games this year with an offense that by the end of the year is throwing for a couple hundred yards, some TD's and not too many int's per game.  Basically starting to look like a real NFL offense.

I just don't think that's game experience for him, he needs to try things, some of them will, and probably need to fail so he can go, "wow, those safety's close fast in this league, I can't do it like that".  It's how you learn.  Now our D is not going to be able to hold NO to 3 points most likely, so he's going to have to do something on offense.  I think up two scores would have been a good time to run things as opposed to being a scared little ##### and not wanting to lose the lead and ending up with almost no first downs in the second half.
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As long as he's starting games he's learning something.  Every game should be making him more comfortable and confident.  I know he's not learning as much as he could but it's better than sitting behind Glennon, that's for sure.

 
And still just to be clear, that defense was awesome, and I tend to be a love defense meatball kinda guy.  I'm starting to get really excited about Eddie Jackson, could we finally have that center fielder safety out there, who is looking for the ball and when he gets a chance is going to take it?  I'd actually be happy with him and Amos as starting safety's for a while.  Amos tends to be in the right spot and tackles well, so combining him with that true free safety could be a great pair.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
As long as he's starting games he's learning something.  Every game should be making him more comfortable and confident.  I know he's not learning as much as he could but it's better than sitting behind Glennon, that's for sure.
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he's more confident after his coach tells him "don't do anything so you don't mess up this lead" nope not buying it at all, period.  I was fine with Trubitsky not starting until later in the year, but once you do, the guys gotta do something ever game.  Needs at least two big downfield throws a game, needs to work on throwing WR's open.  Goff looked like crap last year, but they were trying stuff with him at least.

You can try to blame the WR's all people want, but as someone else said Thompson went out for buffalo and had 100 yards receiving.  You can find a way for WR's to get the ball if you play call well.  I'm not looking for 400 yards or anything crazy like that, you just have to try something!

 
The Tick said:
On top of that John Fox of all coaches should know that you don't just get fired for wins/loss records.  If he wins out (ok not going to happen) but all the games look like that where they don't let Trubisky try anything, I think he's more likely to get fired then if he only wins two or three more games this year with an offense that by the end of the year is throwing for a couple hundred yards, some TD's and not too many int's per game.  Basically starting to look like a real NFL offense.

I just don't think that's game experience for him, he needs to try things, some of them will, and probably need to fail so he can go, "wow, those safety's close fast in this league, I can't do it like that".  It's how you learn.  Now our D is not going to be able to hold NO to 3 points most likely, so he's going to have to do something on offense.  I think up two scores would have been a good time to run things as opposed to being a scared little ##### and not wanting to lose the lead and ending up with almost no first downs in the second half.
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Any coach or coordinator worth his salt realizes you need to get a younger qb easy completions early in the downs. Fox and Loggains haven't figured this out yet. No easy completions. Put your QB in know passing downs and long to go. Makes no sense. Idiotic. Mix it up. Get him some easy completions. Get the offense going. It's pretty apparent they're not going to try it, though. 

 
The Tick said:
he's more confident after his coach tells him "don't do anything so you don't mess up this lead" nope not buying it at all, period.  I was fine with Trubitsky not starting until later in the year, but once you do, the guys gotta do something ever game.  Needs at least two big downfield throws a game, needs to work on throwing WR's open.  Goff looked like crap last year, but they were trying stuff with him at least.

You can try to blame the WR's all people want, but as someone else said Thompson went out for buffalo and had 100 yards receiving.  You can find a way for WR's to get the ball if you play call well.  I'm not looking for 400 yards or anything crazy like that, you just have to try something!
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Being on the field should make you more familiar and comfortable each game played.  Taking more snaps helps.  Each time he drops back it helps.  Each hand off is just more experience.  Ever play is a chance to read the defense.  Each time he throws the ball away or takes a sack is a learning experience.

I admitted that it is not as much experience as he could be getting but regardless, he is gaining experience and it's so much better than him being on the bench.  I would like to see them open up the offense more too but they're not yet.  That doesn't mean that he's not learning anything though.

 
humpback said:
This is a rare time where I agree with you, but that's precisely why it's so absurd for you to be crowning him (or any of the rookie/college QB's).

That's more like it, you're back to saying a bunch of crap that I never said. Now that you've brought it up though, let's stick with your awful logic for a minute- how's your boy Kizer looking?  :lmao:
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Gotta be killing you inside seeing how terrible the 2018 best class ever is playing.  This year was so awful. Wrong! 

 
flapgreen said:
Gotta be killing you inside seeing how terrible the 2018 best class ever is playing.  This year was so awful. Wrong! 
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I don't know why you get off on this so much but you are not right yet.  You're also not wrong, no one is.  We won't know how good this year's class is for at least another two years.  We have no idea how good next year's class is yet since they haven't even finished college yet.

You need to wait.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
Being on the field should make you more familiar and comfortable each game played.  Taking more snaps helps.  Each time he drops back it helps.  Each hand off is just more experience.  Ever play is a chance to read the defense.  Each time he throws the ball away or takes a sack is a learning experience.

I admitted that it is not as much experience as he could be getting but regardless, he is gaining experience and it's so much better than him being on the bench.  I would like to see them open up the offense more too but they're not yet.  That doesn't mean that he's not learning anything though.
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That's just not the case.  They're not letting him read defenses or grow as a qb putting him in only impossible positions when passing the ball.  You really think him dropping back and handing off the ball and taking sacks and throwing the ball away is beneficial to his development? No sane coach would say that. It's also why you don't see it happening anywhere else around the league.  So counterproductive and accomplishes nothing. 

 
flapgreen said:
That's just not the case.  They're not letting him read defenses or grow as a qb putting him in only impossible positions when passing the ball.  You really think him dropping back and handing off the ball and taking sacks and throwing the ball away is beneficial to his development? No sane coach would say that. It's also why you don't see it happening anywhere else around the league.  So counterproductive and accomplishes nothing. 
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They could be doing worse I guess... they could be pulling the crap that Cleveland is doing to Kaizer.  Man at this point that guy just may as well add him to his cemetery of dead Cleveland QB Halloween display.

 
flapgreen said:
That's just not the case.  They're not letting him read defenses or grow as a qb putting him in only impossible positions when passing the ball.  You really think him dropping back and handing off the ball and taking sacks and throwing the ball away is beneficial to his development? No sane coach would say that. It's also why you don't see it happening anywhere else around the league.  So counterproductive and accomplishes nothing. 
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Anytime a QB is taking snaps he is reading the defense, he is taking a snap, he is handing off or throwing, he is moving in the pocket, he's at risk of taking a hit or any number of random things.  It's all experience not matter what you think.  The level of experience may not be to everyone's liking but to say he's not learning anything is just incorrect.

Counterproductive would be having him on the sideline or on the practice squad.

 
The Tick said:
They could be doing worse I guess... they could be pulling the crap that Cleveland is doing to Kaizer.  Man at this point that guy just may as well add him to his cemetery of dead Cleveland QB Halloween display.
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Exactly.  As long as he's starting and playing the entire game it's beneficial.  It may be minimal but it's still better than not playing.  I do hope they allow him to do more this season though.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
flapgreen said:
Gotta be killing you inside seeing how terrible the 2018 best class ever is playing.  This year was so awful. Wrong! 
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I don't know why you get off on this so much but you are not right yet.  You're also not wrong, no one is.  We won't know how good this year's class is for at least another two years.  We have no idea how good next year's class is yet since they haven't even finished college yet.

You need to wait.
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Get out of here with that reason and logic!

Not to mention, I never said this class is awful and next years is the best ever, but I'm pretty sure you're a regular in here so you must know how delusional he is....

 
Hawkeye21 said:
Exactly.  As long as he's starting and playing the entire game it's beneficial.  It may be minimal but it's still better than not playing.  I do hope they allow him to do more this season though.
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I'll concede that. It's better than not playing at all. Lol.  

 
Mark another one off the list. 

USC source says Darnold is unlikely to leave this year.

Baker Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, Josh Rosen left. 

 
humpback said:
Get out of here with that reason and logic!

Not to mention, I never said this class is awful and next years is the best ever, but I'm pretty sure you're a regular in here so you must know how delusional he is....
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I really lose track of who says what and when they said it. I'm banging on you because you responded earlier more than anything. I have no idea what your view was during draft. 

There's nothing delusional about what I said. The entire point from the beginning was the ridiculous point of view taken during the draft that the Bears needed to wait until the next draft class because it was so much better than this one, according to analysts.  A lot of people had that mindset. It was never accurate and it's now obvious the team scouts didn't see it that way either. There will end up being multiple good qbs from the current draft.  If Kizer continues down the road he's on, I'll admit being wrong on him.   

 
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