Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Accidentally like a Martyr is a great tune. The others, some damn good stuff.
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Classic Album Discussion Thread: The Kinks-Lola Versus Powerman and the Moneygoround, Pt. 1 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
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wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Not as well appointed, but i rented a 3-story,13-room sea captain's house in my home town (around the same time Zevon was recording his 1st record) and dedicated it to rock & roll. Anybody connected with music and didn't become a nuisance could hang, sleep, practice, play, party, zonk, screw on the 2 public floors. The second floor had an actual ballroom which became famous around the North Shore as the Christmas Room because i didnt even know how to furnish a single room at the time so i was running out of ideas and saw an after-Xmas decoration sale and bought a half-dozen lightup Santas and reindeers and strings of lights and kept em up in the ballroom year-round. The late Sib Hashian, who lived just down the street, drummed there many times; hosted a big April Fools Day party which i had raided by Salem PD (the chief's son was a friend) as my prank; we responded to legit musicians losing so many gigs when every club was turning into either a disco or punk pit by writing a punk set in a weekend, calling ourselves Mange and actually got years of gigs (under a different name) and recorded an ep after i pulled some strings to get them a working audition @ Boston's famous Rat club; seven of us got the clap from the same girl, separately, in one weekend, etc etc etc. The whole op was managed by Crazy Carol, a retired call girl who kept the good vibes real and could head off trouble better than any bouncer i ever knew (tho the constant presence of Big Wayne, my asst & bodyguard since i was 8yo, helped) and i never seen an urban practice house with better flow.
Zevon was a guy i wish i could say i knew (a lot of the big people i knew shonuff knew him, but my youthful hate for LA sealed me off from a lot of dramatic eps i could have had out there) but Excitable Boy was one of maybe a half-dozen albums that just stayed on my turntable for wks after i bought it. Listened to it over & over, would switch away if only for variety's sake and go "NAAAAH!" and put it right back on. Biggest compliment i can give to a record, i guess. Always thought Zevon would be a good name for a boy.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Knew wikkid would have some sort of anecdote for this album. Too bad you missed Los Angeles, but that's what makes you tick, even if it is a lament. We all have things we see that we don't like, and we do the best with them to our limited capabilities of understanding. Los Angeles, well, I can see where you wouldn't like it. Me neither, probably, back then.
What a weird amount of respect that Zevon gets among his peers. I'm a dilettante when it comes to him, so maybe I should check it out on some nice audio gear and just enjoy. I dunno. Everybody seems to love his wordplay, his songs. I guess I'm just not a seven-minute freakout kind of guy, but I want to give a listen so I can hear what other people are hearing in the music that he writes.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Stephen Sondheim, perhaps the greatest songwriter of the age, once said the major requirement of a song in a musical is that the world must be a different place by the end of it. Zevon's songs, like em or not, always meet that criteria. It's art and craft, not like that accidental stuff you listen to......Like Sondheim, there's a lot of Zevon's stuff i don't like because he always had the talent & turmoil & courage to miss the mark, but the ones that stick are mastery.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, I certainly wasn't questioning his courage nor artistic independence. More how it hits my ears. If anything, this thread moves too fast to give these entire albums a real listen; and a good one. It takes me six months to a year to a decade to get into an album, and by then everything has changed. And I mean everything.
I do want to pick a bone about the "accidental" stuff I listen to. In the front of my LP box is the Grateful Dead, T. Rex, Explosions In The Sky, and Spoon, none of which could even remotely approach accidental status. No critic nor fan would call anything they did "accidental."
That's it. Just sticking up for my tastes a bit. Peace out.
E Street Brat
Footballguy
I'm a big Zevon fan. I also think the his self titled 2nd album is better than Excitable Boy, but by a slim margin. I think Nighttime in the Switching Yard just has'nt aged well. It's definitely a product of its time. Much like "Transverse City"
"Tenderness on the Block" is currently my favorite from the album, but seems to change with every new listen.
"Tenderness on the Block" is currently my favorite from the album, but seems to change with every new listen.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Grateful Dead is the very definition of accidental music.
worrierking
Footballguy
You are correct that he gets (got) a lot of respect from fellow musicians. The list of celebrity guest musicians on his albums is huge, Jerry Garcia, The Everlys, Lindsay and Stevie, Mick and John, David Gilmour, LInda, Bonnie, Dylan, every Eagle, REM, Neil, Bruce, Petty, Flea, etc.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Not studio. That's why heads and people hate their studio recordings. I don't. I love them. As a matter of fact, listening to them describe "Box Of Rain" off of American Beauty and hearing the producers and other songwriters talk about it is something other than an accident. It was very methodical. But I'm not sure I want to go down that rabbit hole. I know Spoon and Explosions are very deliberate, very attuned to how every note sounds, what every thing does.
But enough on my end. There's time enough to fight on a Tuesday about other things than my enjoyment of the serendipitous.
rockaction
Footballguy
The Everly Brothers love of Zevon gets me, and good. Love the Everlys. Everything they touched had a hint of refinement in it.
worrierking
Footballguy
If you're not familiar, Phil and Don hired Warren to be their musical director/keyboardist in 1970 and he stayed with them through their split in 1973. He then appeared on their solo albums and he led the band on Don's 1974 tour. Warren got Lindsay Buckingham to play guitar and sing Phil's parts on the tour.
rockaction
Footballguy
Wow. No, I'm not familiar with what the Everlys were doing in '70-'73. To me, the Everlys are sealed a bit in black-and-white, for lovers and the moon. It's a weird nostalgia I get for them, their voices ascending. I do not think of Zevon or Fleetwood Mac. But thanks for that info.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Hindu Love Gods is a favorite - I've got it on a cassette tape. Great versions of Battleship Chain, Raspberry Beret, Walkin Blues, etc. He reportedly recorded it in the late-night drunken down-time with the REM boys while they were making Sentimental Hygiene.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
I wore the grooves off VF's debut album. I was like 13 and there's was almost nothing hard & urgent like that out there, plus i already knew all the songs cuz they were not only covers but covers of recent hits, so i could figure out what that difference between regular & hard was. i was trying to do just that in many formats & emanations then....
jwb
Footballguy
I saw Vanilla Fudge two years ago open for Blue Oyster Cult. They were good. They opened with a slow, deliberate song that sounded more and more familiar as they went, then the chorus hit... "and then I saw her face..." OMG, they're covering the Monkees!!" - it was fun.
I always liked their shtick - yes, they did try to be a little too psychedelic at times, but they did some cool versions of songs you would not expect a heavy band to cover.
I always liked their shtick - yes, they did try to be a little too psychedelic at times, but they did some cool versions of songs you would not expect a heavy band to cover.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Not the biggest Zevon fan but I can see how folks are drawn to his tunes. Something very real about his music. Favorite song is lawyers guns and money. I don't really think about his music much but think I will give that a quick listen this eve.
Eephus
Footballguy
I love Zevon's self titled album from 1976 which is his career peak IMO.
Beginning with Excitable Boy, I think he became more of a character writing "Warren Zevon" songs. Maybe that who he really was but I think his earlier stuff, sometimes written for other artists, were more personal and less personality. Anybody who could write a "The French Inhaler" doesn't have to answer to some guy on the Internet but I'd rather hear an achingly beautiful song like "Tule's Blues" (an older song on "Excitable Boy" re-release) instead of jokes like "Gorilla You're a Desperado".
Beginning with Excitable Boy, I think he became more of a character writing "Warren Zevon" songs. Maybe that who he really was but I think his earlier stuff, sometimes written for other artists, were more personal and less personality. Anybody who could write a "The French Inhaler" doesn't have to answer to some guy on the Internet but I'd rather hear an achingly beautiful song like "Tule's Blues" (an older song on "Excitable Boy" re-release) instead of jokes like "Gorilla You're a Desperado".
timschochet
Footballguy
The Beatles- Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band (1967)
Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band
With a Little Help From My Friends
Lucy In the Sky With Diamonds
Getting Better
Fixing a Hole
She’s Leaving Home
Being For the Benefit of Mr. Kite!
Within You, Without You
When I’m Sixty-Four
Lovely Rita
Good Morning, Good Morning
Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band (reprise)
A Day In the Life
I know, about time, right? The most famous rock album ever, by the most famous rock band ever. You knew we’d get to it eventually. My uncle, who was 22 in 1967, recalls that record stores had long lines for this album the day it came out, and then it was quickly placed on back order. He says he never saw that before or since. So we can be pretty sure it was a game changer.
Whether or not one likes other Beatles albums more (and personally this is true for me and I suspect, based on previous posts, many people here) is probably irrelevant to the quality of THIS album. Since every song is iconic, I’m going to post my thoughts about every song separately (I’m going to start to do this with other albums as well, though I may only select a few songs each time.)
Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band
With a Little Help From My Friends
Lucy In the Sky With Diamonds
Getting Better
Fixing a Hole
She’s Leaving Home
Being For the Benefit of Mr. Kite!
Within You, Without You
When I’m Sixty-Four
Lovely Rita
Good Morning, Good Morning
Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band (reprise)
A Day In the Life
I know, about time, right? The most famous rock album ever, by the most famous rock band ever. You knew we’d get to it eventually. My uncle, who was 22 in 1967, recalls that record stores had long lines for this album the day it came out, and then it was quickly placed on back order. He says he never saw that before or since. So we can be pretty sure it was a game changer.
Whether or not one likes other Beatles albums more (and personally this is true for me and I suspect, based on previous posts, many people here) is probably irrelevant to the quality of THIS album. Since every song is iconic, I’m going to post my thoughts about every song separately (I’m going to start to do this with other albums as well, though I may only select a few songs each time.)
timschochet
Footballguy
Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band
I actually like the reprise better than the first version because we get the good lead guitar work at the end. Otherwise this song is kind of shtick IMO. Of course the first line it was classic but only because we’ve all heard it a billion times. I know everybody loves the use of horns here and on “Penny Lane” (recorded at roughly the same time but appearing on the next album.) They’re OK.
I actually like the reprise better than the first version because we get the good lead guitar work at the end. Otherwise this song is kind of shtick IMO. Of course the first line it was classic but only because we’ve all heard it a billion times. I know everybody loves the use of horns here and on “Penny Lane” (recorded at roughly the same time but appearing on the next album.) They’re OK.
timschochet
Footballguy
With a Little Help From My Friends
I really like Ringo’s voice, but IMO this song is far inferior to the Joe Cocker cover, also iconic- Cocker (who we will get to sooner or later) changes the entire feel of the tune turning it into a bluesy, soulful gem, which is completely lacking in this version.
I really like Ringo’s voice, but IMO this song is far inferior to the Joe Cocker cover, also iconic- Cocker (who we will get to sooner or later) changes the entire feel of the tune turning it into a bluesy, soulful gem, which is completely lacking in this version.
timschochet
Footballguy
Lucy In the Sky With Diamonds
Hey you know this song might be about LSD!
Now in this case I actually like this version better than the Elton John cover. Bizarre psychedelic lyrics but it’s 1967 so what the hell? It’s great. I’ve never been able to picture a marmalade Sky, though.
Hey you know this song might be about LSD!
Now in this case I actually like this version better than the Elton John cover. Bizarre psychedelic lyrics but it’s 1967 so what the hell? It’s great. I’ve never been able to picture a marmalade Sky, though.
timschochet
Footballguy
Getting Better
I read somewhere that this was an argument between cheerful Paul and dour John:
Paul: Got to admit it’s getting better!
John: Can’t get much worse!
I was always amused by this. The song is your typical catchy McCartney tune that he would basically retread again and again for about another 15 years or so after this recording.
I read somewhere that this was an argument between cheerful Paul and dour John:
Paul: Got to admit it’s getting better!
John: Can’t get much worse!
I was always amused by this. The song is your typical catchy McCartney tune that he would basically retread again and again for about another 15 years or so after this recording.
timschochet
Footballguy
Fixing A Hole
This is one of those Beatles songs that I know every word of, heard it a zillion times, but I would never put it on a playlist, you know? It’s OK but it doesn’t really do anything for me.
This is one of those Beatles songs that I know every word of, heard it a zillion times, but I would never put it on a playlist, you know? It’s OK but it doesn’t really do anything for me.
timschochet
Footballguy
She’s Leaving Home
One of the most beautiful ballads John ever wrote IMO, rivaling Imagine, Oh My Love and Julia. The lyrics are incredibly brilliant and poignant and I feel as much for the parents as for the girl. As good as anything on this album.
Many artists have done covers of this; my favorite is Billy Bragg.
One of the most beautiful ballads John ever wrote IMO, rivaling Imagine, Oh My Love and Julia. The lyrics are incredibly brilliant and poignant and I feel as much for the parents as for the girl. As good as anything on this album.
Many artists have done covers of this; my favorite is Billy Bragg.
HellToupee
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Being For the Benefit of Mr. Kite!
The problem I have here is the movie featuring the BeeGees; every time I hear this song I think of George Burns.
The problem I have here is the movie featuring the BeeGees; every time I hear this song I think of George Burns.
timschochet
Footballguy
Within You, Without You
George does love him some Ravi Shankar doesn’t he? I’ve always liked this (I like almost everything by George; he’s my favorite Beatle) but I came to appreciate it more when I saw a documentary where George Martin explained how he used a symphony orchestra to follow the sitar. That was pretty fascinating and of course it works great with the song.
George does love him some Ravi Shankar doesn’t he? I’ve always liked this (I like almost everything by George; he’s my favorite Beatle) but I came to appreciate it more when I saw a documentary where George Martin explained how he used a symphony orchestra to follow the sitar. That was pretty fascinating and of course it works great with the song.
timschochet
Footballguy
When I’m Sixty-Four
Lovely Rita
I always group these two songs together because they’re part of Paul’s music hall thing. Paul was in love with the old British music hall and produced several songs that would have for well with that era and even Gilbert and Sullivan (he is rivaled in this only by Ray Davies who we will get to later.) That’s not to say I don’t love it; it’s awesome, though he could go overboard at times (not here, but see “Honey Pie”, “Maxwell’s Silver Hammer”, and ESPECIALLY “Admiral Halsey”)
Lovely Rita
I always group these two songs together because they’re part of Paul’s music hall thing. Paul was in love with the old British music hall and produced several songs that would have for well with that era and even Gilbert and Sullivan (he is rivaled in this only by Ray Davies who we will get to later.) That’s not to say I don’t love it; it’s awesome, though he could go overboard at times (not here, but see “Honey Pie”, “Maxwell’s Silver Hammer”, and ESPECIALLY “Admiral Halsey”)
timschochet
Footballguy
Good Morning, Good Morning
See what I wrote about “Fixing a Hole”.
See what I wrote about “Fixing a Hole”.
timschochet
Footballguy
A Day In the Life
Well this is the one everybody loves, so I may piss a few people off here. Don’t get me wrong I like it, it’s a fine song and I never turn it off when it comes on- but I certainly have never considered it one of the greatest Beatles songs ever. For one thing, the whole Paul interlude in the middle is for me a waste of time. The song would be just as good without that (or maybe even better.) For another, the lyrics make even less sense than “Lucy”. It’s not that they’re poetically obscure like a great Dylan song; it’s that they have no connection whatever with each other.
Not the best thing they’re ever done by a long shot.
Well this is the one everybody loves, so I may piss a few people off here. Don’t get me wrong I like it, it’s a fine song and I never turn it off when it comes on- but I certainly have never considered it one of the greatest Beatles songs ever. For one thing, the whole Paul interlude in the middle is for me a waste of time. The song would be just as good without that (or maybe even better.) For another, the lyrics make even less sense than “Lucy”. It’s not that they’re poetically obscure like a great Dylan song; it’s that they have no connection whatever with each other.
Not the best thing they’re ever done by a long shot.
HellToupee
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
“It’s better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt”
krista4
Footballguy
Listen to the fills.
Joe Cocker is a hack and his version is an abomination.
It's not about LSD.
I agree it's amusing to see sunny Paul against acerbic John on this.
Neat sentiment except Paul wrote it. And it's a drag. But I do love the Billy Bragg version.
These couldn't be more different IMO. Lovely Rita isn't a "music hall thing" - he tried to write a negative song about the advent of parking meters, but he's so sunny that he couldn't help but make it a love song. It's charming as hell. 64 on the other hand is just music-hall tripe.
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krista4
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
I rarely listen to Sgt Pepper, much much less than any of my other Beatles records. The promise it made to me that music could be everything - my inner equivalence to running away and joining the circus or gazing at stars & vast horizons; my gulp of fresh air when life dragged me under for too long; where my heart could go to ask & yearn, trouble, recover & soar; my intrepid reminder that life itself is a wealth beyond measure, is all i ever need from it and much, much more. I've sung my way thru triumph & tribulation, love & loss, heart attacks (literally) & heresies and am forever in the debt of the boys from Bootle and their Lonely Hearts Club Band for showing me how.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I like this song more than most. As far as that awful movie goes, I've wiped most of it from my memory.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Ringos drums shine throughout this album.
Tom Skerritt
Footballguy
I can't remember where I heard it, must have been on a documentary somewhere, but there was a mention of the album release party for the album. And talking about where the party was, and who was there. And I just thought to myself, 'How freaking cool it must have been to be at THAT album release party!'
zamboni
Footballguy
I've never been a big Joe fan, but I do like his Woodstock rendition of "With A Little Help From My Friends" quite a bit.
Funny clip if you've never seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRHHUC68XB4
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timschochet
Footballguy
I dare you to say that to my face.
Where do you live? Just as soon as there is a celebrity LARP tournament (Lightning bolt!) I will be on my way there and we can meet in person.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Do you know who joe cocker's mother is?
Joe mama.
Joe mama.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I disagree, I like the Cocker version but the Beatles version is superior. Paul's bass work here is amazing.
Never heard about the argument thing and I've read almost every book on the Beatles. The song title was about drummer Jimmy Nichol who subbed for Ringo on tour when Ringo was ill. Every time they would ask Jimmy how it was going he would say "getting better". The line about beating and abusing his woman was about John's mistreatment of women. I am also curious as to what songs of Paul you think are retreads of this.
I don't think there are many similarities of the two songs other than they are stories about fictional people. John always slammed Paul for this but John did it on occasion too (Polythene Pam, Mean Mr. Mustard, etc.). Interesting fact is that Paul wrote "64" for when he was a teenager.
Yeah I really disagree with everything here. The lyrics refer to articles that John was reading in the newspaper -- just a day in the life of someone. I absolutely love the middle segment of Paul's, it fits in perfectly with the theme of a day in the life and it is a great break. I'd love to turn you on was one of the first references the Beatles made about drugs, which is the main point of the album -- it effectively ushered in the psychedelic music wave.
This was mainly written by Paul
In my opinion one of best songs on Pepper is "Fixing a Hole". Very underrated...
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Sgt. Pepper's. Wow. I know this album was my introduction to the Beatles, and probably was my introduction to rock music. When my sister and I were still toddlers and my mom needed a break from us, my dad would take us along on his errands and Sgt. Pepper's was the soundtrack in his car.
Ringo's version of With A Little Help From My Friends is so much better than Cocker's. Don't confuse pretentiousness for artistry.
Ringo's version of With A Little Help From My Friends is so much better than Cocker's. Don't confuse pretentiousness for artistry.
krista4
Footballguy
krista4
Footballguy
Seems most of us don't rank Sgt. Pepper as highly as music critics do. I'm in the same boat - don't think it's even in my top five of Beatles records. That said, I can understand why it's ranked highly on critics' lists based on how groundbreaking it was, and I do have some favorites:
A Day in the Life - This is not just a masterpiece to be admired, but a highly enjoyable listen. I am endlessly fascinated by it no matter how many times I've heard it. I'll write a lot more about all of these, but particularly this one, when I do my Beatles song countdown soon.
Lovely Rita - I've only recently come to appreciate this one but find it charming and hilarious. There's a point just over a minute in where Paul yells "Rita!" and then it goes into a piano part that's jaunty and fun. I assume that's George Martin on the piano, but I bet @Godsbrother knows. Love the ending to this song, too.
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - Love the vocal and the fuzzy guitar, but the drums really stand out to me on this.
Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds - Another that I've only appreciated more recently. The dreamy quality and dreamy lyrics, the tempo changes...
With a Little Help from My Friends - My favorite song with Ringo on vocal. The call-and-response is fantastic. I love Ringo's voice (and of course of course his drumming), but don't love his songwriting, so it's fitting that my favorite "Ringo song" isn't a Ringo song.
Good Morning Good Morning - This song is bonkers and I love it. No idea how Ringo could perform this song. He's off the chain on this one.
Within You Without You - I could listen to this forever. It's very soothing. Love its placement on the record and how it breaks up the two circus-y songs.
A Day in the Life - This is not just a masterpiece to be admired, but a highly enjoyable listen. I am endlessly fascinated by it no matter how many times I've heard it. I'll write a lot more about all of these, but particularly this one, when I do my Beatles song countdown soon.
Lovely Rita - I've only recently come to appreciate this one but find it charming and hilarious. There's a point just over a minute in where Paul yells "Rita!" and then it goes into a piano part that's jaunty and fun. I assume that's George Martin on the piano, but I bet @Godsbrother knows. Love the ending to this song, too.
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - Love the vocal and the fuzzy guitar, but the drums really stand out to me on this.
Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds - Another that I've only appreciated more recently. The dreamy quality and dreamy lyrics, the tempo changes...
With a Little Help from My Friends - My favorite song with Ringo on vocal. The call-and-response is fantastic. I love Ringo's voice (and of course of course his drumming), but don't love his songwriting, so it's fitting that my favorite "Ringo song" isn't a Ringo song.
Good Morning Good Morning - This song is bonkers and I love it. No idea how Ringo could perform this song. He's off the chain on this one.
Within You Without You - I could listen to this forever. It's very soothing. Love its placement on the record and how it breaks up the two circus-y songs.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
As a tried to illustrate earlier in my insomniac-morning post, putting SPLHCB on the turntable in l967 was music getting the wagon to the top of the ridge below which lay the Promised Land. We were switching from mono to stereo, figuring out that songs could be about anything and didn't even have to be hits but part of a bigger thing or theme and we could make a hit of that as a piece, recognized from Pet Sounds that there was a sonic landscape where people's dreams could be hosted. And the boys in the colorful silk jackets, epaulets & moustaches nailed the landing.
ETA: Last year, BBC observed the 50th anniv of SPLHCB with this, which explains what made it such a revolution in music
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