Cleveland Browns (4 Viewers)

[Mile High]

Why don't they try getting Richardson in space more? Even in the hurry up line him out outside he seems to have good hands. He is their best player and needs to be on the field, not on the bench watching guys drop passes.. Coaches need to think outside the box.

 

[cstu]

One positive for Browns fans - there were 700 posts in this thread in the first two years and there have been 2300 so far this year.

 

[Biabreakable]

I was just looking over defensive stats.

Cleveland is leading the league in total tackles right now. Yes they played one more game than everyone but the Raven's, but still this is not good.

The good news is Craig Robertson has 2 interceptions and 3 passes defensed. D'Qwell Jackson also has 2 interceptions, 3 passes defensed and 3 sacks. Even LJ Fort has 1 interception and 3 passes defensed in limited duty. The Browns linebackers are covering very well which is impressive and critical I think in today's pass happy NFL. The Browns defense is in 2nd place for sacks right now with 13 over 4 games. Granted another team might pass them with their 4th game, but the Browns have been getting to the QB, and getting there without some of their best players playing as well. The defense is playing well now and will be getting better when those guys return.

If the offense could get a little better I think this defense can win them some games.

 

[MAC_32]

I was just looking over defensive stats.Cleveland is leading the league in total tackles right now. Yes they played one more game than everyone but the Raven's, but still this is not good.The good news is Craig Robertson has 2 interceptions and 3 passes defensed. D'Qwell Jackson also has 2 interceptions, 3 passes defensed and 3 sacks. Even LJ Fort has 1 interception and 3 passes defensed in limited duty. The Browns linebackers are covering very well which is impressive and critical I think in today's pass happy NFL. The Browns defense is in 2nd place for sacks right now with 13 over 4 games. Granted another team might pass them with their 4th game, but the Browns have been getting to the QB, and getting there without some of their best players playing as well. The defense is playing well now and will be getting better when those guys return. If the offense could get a little better I think this defense can win them some games.

I had some doubts coming into the season that last year's success was partially driven by opposing teams knowing they didn't need to do much to beat us, but now I'm sold. When Haden comes back we're borderline elite and once Taylor's back I think this may be one of the best units in the league. Just a corner short, could use a stronger edge rusher opposite Sheard but Parker/Rucker are good enough.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Why don't they try getting Richardson in space more? Even in the hurry up line him out outside he seems to have good hands. He is their best player and needs to be on the field, not on the bench watching guys drop passes.. Coaches need to think outside the box.

these coaches can't even think inside the box.

 

[Bobcat10]

Thoughts on "Cleveland '95"?

Could have been a 2 or 3 hour special, but it was still well done and I'm glad they focused on what they did. There has to be so much more fascinating footage unseen.

We had it....we ####### had it.

 

[beer 302]

Thoughts on "Cleveland '95"? Could have been a 2 or 3 hour special, but it was still well done and I'm glad they focused on what they did. There has to be so much more fascinating footage unseen. We had it....we ####### had it.

Watching it now, ripped my heart out all over again.

 

[cstu]

Thoughts on "Cleveland '95"? Could have been a 2 or 3 hour special, but it was still well done and I'm glad they focused on what they did. There has to be so much more fascinating footage unseen. We had it....we ####### had it.

It could have been worse - Modell could have kept Belichick when he moved to Baltimore.

 

[wadegarrett]

Thoughts on "Cleveland '95"?

Made me hate that ####### dickbag Modell even more than I did. Didn't think that was possible.

 

[Bobcat10]

Thoughts on "Cleveland '95"?

Made me hate that ####### dickbag Modell even more than I did. Didn't think that was possible.

So I guess you're not over him after all.The fact is, most of us will never get over it/him. That's just the way it is. And nothing is wrong with that. Not everyone here is "Cleveland Fan", but those of that are can get over (and have) James, Mesa and the Indians, etc. They pale in comparison.My 7 year old son wants to watch it. I'm surprised he has not already, but Johnny Test is important #### to him. He gets into the Browns in spurts and questions my loyalty to a crappy team. Maybe this will help him understand a little better.

 

[MAC_32]

A better team? No. It's worse. There's a stronger foundation (young talent) to build from, but no team can win with a bad QB, bad coach, and poor leadership - Holmgren and Heckert. The former chose to select his staff then let them do all the work, which would work if they were successful but they have not been and until Randy informed them he was looking to sell the only time he came down was to bark at everyone about playoff tickets. Heckert's an alright scout, but outside of his top 40 picks what has he brought to the team? As I've been saying for a while, building through the draft then re-signing our own can work but if you are as anti free agency as he is then you have to ace the draft because your margin for error is greatly reduced. He has not.

IMHO, the same situation happened to the Jets. Eric Mangini had a long term plan for long term success, and despite his failings with his personality and his relationship with the media, he got guys playing hard and he had a true eye for talent. I think it was the waste of 50-60 million, for Holmgren to select almost can't miss picks at time with high draft choices. Hitting on Haden in the first round to me isn't a success, when you get a pick that high, you should walk away with a good player. Mangini got players into position to succeed and got players playing over their heads at times. He might have a lousy breakup with New England but the guy can coach and the guy can build a team, if given a chance. You just can't keep turning over the team every 2-3 years, you will start to alienate your fanbase that way.

I think the only picks Holmgren has had much say in were Colt, Weeden, and Richardson - I'm not sure he had much to say about Richardson either tbh. The draft is 99% Heckert, just not QB's.Mangini is a hell of an x's and o's coach, but he is an awful personnel guy. His Mack-Robiskie-Massaquoi-Veikune draft sent this team back years. One average starter, one below average starter, one guy about to be out of football, and another that's long gone from top 50 picks.

 

[amnesiac]

A better team? No. It's worse. There's a stronger foundation (young talent) to build from, but no team can win with a bad QB, bad coach, and poor leadership - Holmgren and Heckert. The former chose to select his staff then let them do all the work, which would work if they were successful but they have not been and until Randy informed them he was looking to sell the only time he came down was to bark at everyone about playoff tickets. Heckert's an alright scout, but outside of his top 40 picks what has he brought to the team? As I've been saying for a while, building through the draft then re-signing our own can work but if you are as anti free agency as he is then you have to ace the draft because your margin for error is greatly reduced. He has not.

IMHO, the same situation happened to the Jets. Eric Mangini had a long term plan for long term success, and despite his failings with his personality and his relationship with the media, he got guys playing hard and he had a true eye for talent. I think it was the waste of 50-60 million, for Holmgren to select almost can't miss picks at time with high draft choices. Hitting on Haden in the first round to me isn't a success, when you get a pick that high, you should walk away with a good player. Mangini got players into position to succeed and got players playing over their heads at times. He might have a lousy breakup with New England but the guy can coach and the guy can build a team, if given a chance. You just can't keep turning over the team every 2-3 years, you will start to alienate your fanbase that way.

I think the only picks Holmgren has had much say in were Colt, Weeden, and Richardson - I'm not sure he had much to say about Richardson either tbh. The draft is 99% Heckert, just not QB's.Mangini is a hell of an x's and o's coach, but he is an awful personnel guy. His Mack-Robiskie-Massaquoi-Veikune draft sent this team back years. One average starter, one below average starter, one guy about to be out of football, and another that's long gone from top 50 picks.

could've been worse, he could have drafted Sanchez.

 

[daveR]

A better team? No. It's worse. There's a stronger foundation (young talent) to build from, but no team can win with a bad QB, bad coach, and poor leadership - Holmgren and Heckert. The former chose to select his staff then let them do all the work, which would work if they were successful but they have not been and until Randy informed them he was looking to sell the only time he came down was to bark at everyone about playoff tickets. Heckert's an alright scout, but outside of his top 40 picks what has he brought to the team? As I've been saying for a while, building through the draft then re-signing our own can work but if you are as anti free agency as he is then you have to ace the draft because your margin for error is greatly reduced. He has not.

IMHO, the same situation happened to the Jets. Eric Mangini had a long term plan for long term success, and despite his failings with his personality and his relationship with the media, he got guys playing hard and he had a true eye for talent. I think it was the waste of 50-60 million, for Holmgren to select almost can't miss picks at time with high draft choices. Hitting on Haden in the first round to me isn't a success, when you get a pick that high, you should walk away with a good player. Mangini got players into position to succeed and got players playing over their heads at times. He might have a lousy breakup with New England but the guy can coach and the guy can build a team, if given a chance. You just can't keep turning over the team every 2-3 years, you will start to alienate your fanbase that way.

I think the only picks Holmgren has had much say in were Colt, Weeden, and Richardson - I'm not sure he had much to say about Richardson either tbh. The draft is 99% Heckert, just not QB's.Mangini is a hell of an x's and o's coach, but he is an awful personnel guy. His Mack-Robiskie-Massaquoi-Veikune draft sent this team back years. One average starter, one below average starter, one guy about to be out of football, and another that's long gone from top 50 picks.

Not that I disagree with your post, but why do you assign "credit" for the different players to different drafters? Was Mangini the guy making the picks? Didn't we have a GM back then? Why credit him and not Shurmer? Why would Holmgren decide to add input only on QBs & Richardson?

 

[MAC_32]

A better team? No. It's worse. There's a stronger foundation (young talent) to build from, but no team can win with a bad QB, bad coach, and poor leadership - Holmgren and Heckert. The former chose to select his staff then let them do all the work, which would work if they were successful but they have not been and until Randy informed them he was looking to sell the only time he came down was to bark at everyone about playoff tickets. Heckert's an alright scout, but outside of his top 40 picks what has he brought to the team? As I've been saying for a while, building through the draft then re-signing our own can work but if you are as anti free agency as he is then you have to ace the draft because your margin for error is greatly reduced. He has not.

IMHO, the same situation happened to the Jets. Eric Mangini had a long term plan for long term success, and despite his failings with his personality and his relationship with the media, he got guys playing hard and he had a true eye for talent. I think it was the waste of 50-60 million, for Holmgren to select almost can't miss picks at time with high draft choices. Hitting on Haden in the first round to me isn't a success, when you get a pick that high, you should walk away with a good player. Mangini got players into position to succeed and got players playing over their heads at times. He might have a lousy breakup with New England but the guy can coach and the guy can build a team, if given a chance. You just can't keep turning over the team every 2-3 years, you will start to alienate your fanbase that way.

I think the only picks Holmgren has had much say in were Colt, Weeden, and Richardson - I'm not sure he had much to say about Richardson either tbh. The draft is 99% Heckert, just not QB's.Mangini is a hell of an x's and o's coach, but he is an awful personnel guy. His Mack-Robiskie-Massaquoi-Veikune draft sent this team back years. One average starter, one below average starter, one guy about to be out of football, and another that's long gone from top 50 picks.

Not that I disagree with your post, but why do you assign "credit" for the different players to different drafters? Was Mangini the guy making the picks? Didn't we have a GM back then? Why credit him and not Shurmer? Why would Holmgren decide to add input only on QBs & Richardson?

Kokinis was Mangini's puppet, those were Mangini picks.Heckert and Holmgren have said as much in interviews - the final call in the draft room is Heckert, but Holmgren chimes in with QB's. He's the one that said screw it we're talking Colt, this is my call in that draft. Rumors he pushed the Weeden pick at 22 (rather than wait til day 2) but those are just rumors, not confirmed like what led to the Colt pick.

 

[MAC_32]

A better team? No. It's worse. There's a stronger foundation (young talent) to build from, but no team can win with a bad QB, bad coach, and poor leadership - Holmgren and Heckert. The former chose to select his staff then let them do all the work, which would work if they were successful but they have not been and until Randy informed them he was looking to sell the only time he came down was to bark at everyone about playoff tickets. Heckert's an alright scout, but outside of his top 40 picks what has he brought to the team? As I've been saying for a while, building through the draft then re-signing our own can work but if you are as anti free agency as he is then you have to ace the draft because your margin for error is greatly reduced. He has not.

IMHO, the same situation happened to the Jets. Eric Mangini had a long term plan for long term success, and despite his failings with his personality and his relationship with the media, he got guys playing hard and he had a true eye for talent. I think it was the waste of 50-60 million, for Holmgren to select almost can't miss picks at time with high draft choices. Hitting on Haden in the first round to me isn't a success, when you get a pick that high, you should walk away with a good player. Mangini got players into position to succeed and got players playing over their heads at times. He might have a lousy breakup with New England but the guy can coach and the guy can build a team, if given a chance. You just can't keep turning over the team every 2-3 years, you will start to alienate your fanbase that way.

I think the only picks Holmgren has had much say in were Colt, Weeden, and Richardson - I'm not sure he had much to say about Richardson either tbh. The draft is 99% Heckert, just not QB's.Mangini is a hell of an x's and o's coach, but he is an awful personnel guy. His Mack-Robiskie-Massaquoi-Veikune draft sent this team back years. One average starter, one below average starter, one guy about to be out of football, and another that's long gone from top 50 picks.

could've been worse, he could have drafted Sanchez.

I don't think that was ever a consideration, given the relatively low ball offer he took to move back. Kudos to him for avoiding Sanchez, I'd have flipped if we took him, but his plan B was a failure too.

 

[daveR]

A better team? No. It's worse. There's a stronger foundation (young talent) to build from, but no team can win with a bad QB, bad coach, and poor leadership - Holmgren and Heckert. The former chose to select his staff then let them do all the work, which would work if they were successful but they have not been and until Randy informed them he was looking to sell the only time he came down was to bark at everyone about playoff tickets. Heckert's an alright scout, but outside of his top 40 picks what has he brought to the team? As I've been saying for a while, building through the draft then re-signing our own can work but if you are as anti free agency as he is then you have to ace the draft because your margin for error is greatly reduced. He has not.

IMHO, the same situation happened to the Jets. Eric Mangini had a long term plan for long term success, and despite his failings with his personality and his relationship with the media, he got guys playing hard and he had a true eye for talent. I think it was the waste of 50-60 million, for Holmgren to select almost can't miss picks at time with high draft choices. Hitting on Haden in the first round to me isn't a success, when you get a pick that high, you should walk away with a good player. Mangini got players into position to succeed and got players playing over their heads at times. He might have a lousy breakup with New England but the guy can coach and the guy can build a team, if given a chance. You just can't keep turning over the team every 2-3 years, you will start to alienate your fanbase that way.

I think the only picks Holmgren has had much say in were Colt, Weeden, and Richardson - I'm not sure he had much to say about Richardson either tbh. The draft is 99% Heckert, just not QB's.Mangini is a hell of an x's and o's coach, but he is an awful personnel guy. His Mack-Robiskie-Massaquoi-Veikune draft sent this team back years. One average starter, one below average starter, one guy about to be out of football, and another that's long gone from top 50 picks.

Not that I disagree with your post, but why do you assign "credit" for the different players to different drafters? Was Mangini the guy making the picks? Didn't we have a GM back then? Why credit him and not Shurmer? Why would Holmgren decide to add input only on QBs & Richardson?

Kokinis was Mangini's puppet, those were Mangini picks.Heckert and Holmgren have said as much in interviews - the final call in the draft room is Heckert, but Holmgren chimes in with QB's. He's the one that said screw it we're talking Colt, this is my call in that draft. Rumors he pushed the Weeden pick at 22 (rather than wait til day 2) but those are just rumors, not confirmed like what led to the Colt pick.

Yeah. I remember that with Colt!

 

[nxmehta]

Tony Grossi said something very smart earlier this week in a radio interview: in the National Football League, if you are not capable of doing your job, there is nowhere to hide. Sorry Pat Shurmur.

I would not be surprised at all if we never hear from Mike Holmgren again... he will leave this organization very quietly. He is never going to want to face to music with the mess that he created in Cleveland.

I will be surprised if we win more than 2 games this season. 1-15 is likely, and 0-16 is actually possible. If we lose the next 2 games (Cincinnati and Indianapolis), look out.

 

[TxBuckeye]

Great thing about being a Skins and Browns fan. Football season is usually "over" by week six and that frees up my Sundays.

:X

 

[cstu]

Tony Grossi said something very smart earlier this week in a radio interview: in the National Football League, if you are not capable of doing your job, there is nowhere to hide. Sorry Pat Shurmur.

I would not be surprised at all if we never hear from Mike Holmgren again... he will leave this organization very quietly. He is never going to want to face to music with the mess that he created in Cleveland.

I will be surprised if we win more than 2 games this season. 1-15 is likely, and 0-16 is actually possible. If we lose the next 2 games (Cincinnati and Indianapolis), look out.

After watching what Luck did today, you better hope so. If the Browns get Geno to go along with TRich the Browns are going to be a contender quick.

 

[amnesiac]

Tony Grossi said something very smart earlier this week in a radio interview: in the National Football League, if you are not capable of doing your job, there is nowhere to hide. Sorry Pat Shurmur.I would not be surprised at all if we never hear from Mike Holmgren again... he will leave this organization very quietly. He is never going to want to face to music with the mess that he created in Cleveland.I will be surprised if we win more than 2 games this season. 1-15 is likely, and 0-16 is actually possible. If we lose the next 2 games (Cincinnati and Indianapolis), look out.

very possible. although it seems like teams often win the next game after the coach is fired.

 

[jurb26]

Tony Grossi said something very smart earlier this week in a radio interview: in the National Football League, if you are not capable of doing your job, there is nowhere to hide. Sorry Pat Shurmur.

I would not be surprised at all if we never hear from Mike Holmgren again... he will leave this organization very quietly. He is never going to want to face to music with the mess that he created in Cleveland.

I will be surprised if we win more than 2 games this season. 1-15 is likely, and 0-16 is actually possible. If we lose the next 2 games (Cincinnati and Indianapolis), look out.

After watching what Luck did today, you better hope so. If the Browns get Geno to go along with TRich the Browns are going to be a contender quick.

Geno going to play TE or WR?

 

[cstu]

Tony Grossi said something very smart earlier this week in a radio interview: in the National Football League, if you are not capable of doing your job, there is nowhere to hide. Sorry Pat Shurmur.

I would not be surprised at all if we never hear from Mike Holmgren again... he will leave this organization very quietly. He is never going to want to face to music with the mess that he created in Cleveland.

I will be surprised if we win more than 2 games this season. 1-15 is likely, and 0-16 is actually possible. If we lose the next 2 games (Cincinnati and Indianapolis), look out.

After watching what Luck did today, you better hope so. If the Browns get Geno to go along with TRich the Browns are going to be a contender quick.

Geno going to play TE or WR?

The Browns have receiving talent. Gordon would have had another TD if Weeden hadn't thrown the ball behind him.

 

[jurb26]

Tony Grossi said something very smart earlier this week in a radio interview: in the National Football League, if you are not capable of doing your job, there is nowhere to hide. Sorry Pat Shurmur.

I would not be surprised at all if we never hear from Mike Holmgren again... he will leave this organization very quietly. He is never going to want to face to music with the mess that he created in Cleveland.

I will be surprised if we win more than 2 games this season. 1-15 is likely, and 0-16 is actually possible. If we lose the next 2 games (Cincinnati and Indianapolis), look out.

After watching what Luck did today, you better hope so. If the Browns get Geno to go along with TRich the Browns are going to be a contender quick.

Geno going to play TE or WR?

The Browns have receiving talent. Gordon would have had another TD if Weeden hadn't thrown the ball behind him.

And Weeden would have completed about 50 more passes this season if Gordon and Co. hadn't dropped balls every game. That is easily the worst group of pass catchers in the NFL.

 

[cstu]

Tony Grossi said something very smart earlier this week in a radio interview: in the National Football League, if you are not capable of doing your job, there is nowhere to hide. Sorry Pat Shurmur.

I would not be surprised at all if we never hear from Mike Holmgren again... he will leave this organization very quietly. He is never going to want to face to music with the mess that he created in Cleveland.

I will be surprised if we win more than 2 games this season. 1-15 is likely, and 0-16 is actually possible. If we lose the next 2 games (Cincinnati and Indianapolis), look out.

After watching what Luck did today, you better hope so. If the Browns get Geno to go along with TRich the Browns are going to be a contender quick.

Geno going to play TE or WR?

The Browns have receiving talent. Gordon would have had another TD if Weeden hadn't thrown the ball behind him.

And Weeden would have completed about 50 more passes this season if Gordon and Co. hadn't dropped balls every game. That is easily the worst group of pass catchers in the NFL.

It's also one of youngest. They had all of one WR/TE who has been in the league more than two years (Ben Watson) and they still went toe to toe against the Giants with a 28yo rookie QB.

 

[beer 302]

The brilliance of Pat Shurmur's coaching is almost blinding. Just don't get wtf he is thinking when he makes some of those calls. The guys been in football all his freakin' life and I'd say the vast majority of HS coaches wouldn't do some of the stuff he does.

 

[amnesiac]

only question is if Jauron or Childress is the interim head coach when Shurmur is fired.

 

[Fallerjw]

Tony Grossi said something very smart earlier this week in a radio interview: in the National Football League, if you are not capable of doing your job, there is nowhere to hide. Sorry Pat Shurmur.

I would not be surprised at all if we never hear from Mike Holmgren again... he will leave this organization very quietly. He is never going to want to face to music with the mess that he created in Cleveland.

I will be surprised if we win more than 2 games this season. 1-15 is likely, and 0-16 is actually possible. If we lose the next 2 games (Cincinnati and Indianapolis), look out.

After watching what Luck did today, you better hope so. If the Browns get Geno to go along with TRich the Browns are going to be a contender quick.

Geno going to play TE or WR?

The Browns have receiving talent. Gordon would have had another TD if Weeden hadn't thrown the ball behind him.

Not Browns have one of the worst few WR corps in the league

 

[Fallerjw]

Tony Grossi said something very smart earlier this week in a radio interview: in the National Football League, if you are not capable of doing your job, there is nowhere to hide. Sorry Pat Shurmur.

I would not be surprised at all if we never hear from Mike Holmgren again... he will leave this organization very quietly. He is never going to want to face to music with the mess that he created in Cleveland.

I will be surprised if we win more than 2 games this season. 1-15 is likely, and 0-16 is actually possible. If we lose the next 2 games (Cincinnati and Indianapolis), look out.

After watching what Luck did today, you better hope so. If the Browns get Geno to go along with TRich the Browns are going to be a contender quick.

Geno going to play TE or WR?

The Browns have receiving talent. Gordon would have had another TD if Weeden hadn't thrown the ball behind him.

And Weeden would have completed about 50 more passes this season if Gordon and Co. hadn't dropped balls every game. That is easily the worst group of pass catchers in the NFL.

It's also one of youngest. They had all of one WR/TE who has been in the league more than two years (Ben Watson) and they still went toe to toe against the Giants with a 28yo rookie QB.

I thought they had it when the Giants were on the 41-6 run

 

[MAC_32]

The Browns don't have receiving talent (relatively speaking anyway), but there isn't a QB either - or a coach. Figure those 2 problems out then address WR and TE.

I think Gordon could be an answer though, and it's way too early to close the book on Cameron too.

 

[Fallerjw]

The Browns don't have receiving talent (relatively speaking anyway), but there isn't a QB either - or a coach. Figure those 2 problems out then address WR and TE.I think Gordon could be an answer though, and it's way too early to close the book on Cameron too.

You don't think they can win with Weeden?

 

[MAC_32]

The Browns don't have receiving talent (relatively speaking anyway), but there isn't a QB either - or a coach. Figure those 2 problems out then address WR and TE.I think Gordon could be an answer though, and it's way too early to close the book on Cameron too.

You don't think they can win with Weeden?

Less to do with that and more to do with I think we'll be great with Geno.If we don't have the option to get Geno then Weeden probably improves over the rest of the season, I'm not sure on him vs. the rest of the draft class if that happens - no one sticks out right now. As is we are staring the #1 pick right in the face and the only way that will change given how poorly we're coached is if Weeden puts the team on his shoulders and shows he's a capable QB in this league.Problem - his back breaking throw on 3rd & 1 today, called by his much dumber head coach, completely changed the game and we never recovered. He also handled that double pass TD poorly, he decidied he was throwing to Watson before the next snap leading to the game sealing pick. There's some good things in him physically, but the problem is the bad is really bad - can't win in this league consistently making game changing mistakes like he has...especially when you are as talent starved and poorly coached as the Browns. No room for error.

 

[cstu]

The Browns don't have receiving talent (relatively speaking anyway), but there isn't a QB either - or a coach. Figure those 2 problems out then address WR and TE.

I think Gordon could be an answer though, and it's way too early to close the book on Cameron too.

You don't think they can win with Weeden?

Less to do with that and more to do with I think we'll be great with Geno.If we don't have the option to get Geno then Weeden probably improves over the rest of the season, I'm not sure on him vs. the rest of the draft class if that happens - no one sticks out right now. As is we are staring the #1 pick right in the face and the only way that will change given how poorly we're coached is if Weeden puts the team on his shoulders and shows he's a capable QB in this league.

Problem - his back breaking throw on 3rd & 1 today, called by his much dumber head coach, completely changed the game and we never recovered. He also handled that double pass TD poorly, he decidied he was throwing to Watson before the next snap leading to the game sealing pick. There's some good things in him physically, but the problem is the bad is really bad - can't win in this league consistently making game changing mistakes like he has...especially when you are as talent starved and poorly coached as the Browns. No room for error.

Weeden has exceeded my expectations for him as a rookie and I think he could be a decent starter for a few years, but Geno looks absolutely sick. What he's doing right now is the most impressive thing I've seen by a college QB.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Problem - his back breaking throw on 3rd & 1 today, called by his much dumber head coach, completely changed the game and we never recovered. He also handled that double pass TD poorly, he decidied he was throwing to Watson before the next snap leading to the game sealing pick. There's some good things in him physically, but the problem is the bad is really bad - can't win in this league consistently making game changing mistakes like he has...especially when you are as talent starved and poorly coached as the Browns. No room for error.

Sam Rutigliano broke it down beautifully on Kylie & Booms this morning. They keep putting Weeden in positions to fail. 3rd and 1 and they take T Rich out and bring in Obie. If that doesn't scream PASS PLAY enough, they split him out so there is absolutely no run threat. Then they roll Weeden out and shrink the field. Problem being that since the Giants didn't even have to consider run, they jammed both WRs and neither got off the line. Now he's rolling out with nobody to throw to, tries to force it, and makes a bad throw. Here's an idea - keep Richardson in and 1) hand him the ball (crazy, I know) or 2) fake it to him to at least draw attention and then throw to Cameron behind the LBs.I will say if they have #1 and Geno continues to look like the real deal, they will have one hell of a decision to make.

 

[jurb26]

Problem - his back breaking throw on 3rd & 1 today, called by his much dumber head coach, completely changed the game and we never recovered. He also handled that double pass TD poorly, he decidied he was throwing to Watson before the next snap leading to the game sealing pick. There's some good things in him physically, but the problem is the bad is really bad - can't win in this league consistently making game changing mistakes like he has...especially when you are as talent starved and poorly coached as the Browns. No room for error.

Sam Rutigliano broke it down beautifully on Kylie & Booms this morning. They keep putting Weeden in positions to fail. 3rd and 1 and they take T Rich out and bring in Obie. If that doesn't scream PASS PLAY enough, they split him out so there is absolutely no run threat. Then they roll Weeden out and shrink the field. Problem being that since the Giants didn't even have to consider run, they jammed both WRs and neither got off the line. Now he's rolling out with nobody to throw to, tries to force it, and makes a bad throw. Here's an idea - keep Richardson in and 1) hand him the ball (crazy, I know) or 2) fake it to him to at least draw attention and then throw to Cameron behind the LBs.I will say if they have #1 and Geno continues to look like the real deal, they will have one hell of a decision to make.

Weeden is getting a very bad rep for a lot of things that simply are not his fault. Is he playing well? Probably not. I'd say he is palying better than could have been expected for a rookie in his situation. He is not capable of winning games though. The play calling and lack of play makers on the outside are what is killing this team.Now of course if Clev ends up with the #1 pick and Geno is looking like the franchise player he does now. They have to take him. As a fan of Geno, I really hope that doesn't happen. Clev could easily kill that kid in 3 years as well.

 

[DocHolliday]

The two biggest problems in Cleveland are coaching and the WRS. The WR talent is comical. It is a young group but that is just an excuse for the overall lack of talent.

The 3rd and 1 play that led to the interception is all on the coach. Run the ball with Richardson. Richardson is playing well. Cleveland should not follow the Andy Reid play book and pass the ball too much.

My biggest problem with Cleveland over the years is their lack of commitment to their QBs. Cleveland does not surround their QBs with talent and give them a chance to succeed. Instead, the QBs are put in position to fail week after week. I am not defending any of the average QBs that have gone through Cleveland but it is tough to lay all of the blame on these QBs. Maybe Weeden could succeed with 2 quality WRs and a good, consistent TE.

Weeden may not be the answer but he needs someont to throw the ball to.

 

[MAC_32]

Oh, Weeden's been put in an awful spot from the beginning, another reason why I hated the pick. Mid rounder, let him compete for work, see how quickly it translates - great. 1st rounder, hand him the keys, then tell him you have to win right away despite inferior weapons, recipe for disaster. Like Colt, he's going to get a raw deal here unless he finds a way to scratch and claw for enough wins that we can't draft a QB. I don't think Weeden's the biggest problem, although his play has been about as I expected, the problem is those idiots running the show in Berea. I know we hate to continue to flip it over every 2 years because it does not work, but that does not mean retaining incompetence is the right choice either.

Make the right hiring decisions then let them do their jobs.

 

[saintfool]

i don't understand how a team with such unproven talent at WR fails to utilize their TE's to the degree that have.

 

[MAC_32]

i don't understand how a team with such unproven talent at WR fails to utilize their TE's to the degree that have.

Most talented TE is as unproven as the WR's, the backup has been hurt and is untalented, and the starter has aged badly, and quickly.

 

[saintfool]

i don't understand how a team with such unproven talent at WR fails to utilize their TE's to the degree that have.

Most talented TE is as unproven as the WR's, the backup has been hurt and is untalented, and the starter has aged badly, and quickly.

i don't disagree with that. however, there are times and occasions when a throw to a TE is completely appropriate.

 

[daveR]

On the Bright Side...

The stat lines on offense were decent. Gordon is getting there. Overall offensively, not bad against a very good NYG team. Richardson continues to shine! Saw some good stuff in the return game. Joe Haden is back. We got the Bengals, at home, next.

 

[MAC_32]

i don't understand how a team with such unproven talent at WR fails to utilize their TE's to the degree that have.

Most talented TE is as unproven as the WR's, the backup has been hurt and is untalented, and the starter has aged badly, and quickly.

i don't disagree with that. however, there are times and occasions when a throw to a TE is completely appropriate.

Oh, are you saying the coaching is lousy?I'd love to see someone try to argue that!

 

[daveR]

i don't understand how a team with such unproven talent at WR fails to utilize their TE's to the degree that have.

Most talented TE is as unproven as the WR's, the backup has been hurt and is untalented, and the starter has aged badly, and quickly.

i don't disagree with that. however, there are times and occasions when a throw to a TE is completely appropriate.

Oh, are you saying the coaching is lousy?I'd love to see someone try to argue that!

Ahhh, you're baiting me, LOL!I'd like to see anyone argue that they know all the factors leading to any coaching decision.

ETA: If you're going to criticize the coaching, the main culprit has to be Jauron. The defense wasn't even a speed bump!

 

[MAC_32]

i don't understand how a team with such unproven talent at WR fails to utilize their TE's to the degree that have.

Most talented TE is as unproven as the WR's, the backup has been hurt and is untalented, and the starter has aged badly, and quickly.

i don't disagree with that. however, there are times and occasions when a throw to a TE is completely appropriate.

Oh, are you saying the coaching is lousy?I'd love to see someone try to argue that!

Ahhh, you're baiting me, LOL!I'd like to see anyone argue that they know all the factors leading to any coaching decision.

ETA: If you're going to criticize the coaching, the main culprit has to be Jauron. The defense wasn't even a speed bump!

That Weeden pick in the red zone on 3rd & 1 with a 7 pt lead completely deflated the entire team. Not happy about the way the defense responded, but that's not on Jauron.And instead of defending the coaches with the 'they know all the factors leading to any coaching decision' schtick how about you try defending it? Bad coaching is like porn - I don't know how to define it, but I know it when I see it.

 

[Bobcat10]

That must be one helluva FACTOR to take out Richardson on 3rd and 1 to throw the ball.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

i don't understand how a team with such unproven talent at WR fails to utilize their TE's to the degree that have.

Most talented TE is as unproven as the WR's, the backup has been hurt and is untalented, and the starter has aged badly, and quickly.

i don't disagree with that. however, there are times and occasions when a throw to a TE is completely appropriate.

Oh, are you saying the coaching is lousy?I'd love to see someone try to argue that!

Ahhh, you're baiting me, LOL!I'd like to see anyone argue that they know all the factors leading to any coaching decision.

ETA: If you're going to criticize the coaching, the main culprit has to be Jauron. The defense wasn't even a speed bump!

That Weeden pick in the red zone on 3rd & 1 with a 7 pt lead completely deflated the entire team. Not happy about the way the defense responded, but that's not on Jauron.

followed immediately by the fumble and another short field, and losing his best player in the 2nd quarter. not to completely excuse the play, but this is also the first game you can even try to pin on Jauron.

And instead of defending the coaches with the 'they know all the factors leading to any coaching decision' schtick how about you try defending it? Bad coaching is like porn - I don't know how to define it, but I know it when I see it.

I know how to define it... OH-AND-FIVE, FOUR-AND-SEVENTEEN.

 

[MAC_32]

i don't understand how a team with such unproven talent at WR fails to utilize their TE's to the degree that have.

Most talented TE is as unproven as the WR's, the backup has been hurt and is untalented, and the starter has aged badly, and quickly.

i don't disagree with that. however, there are times and occasions when a throw to a TE is completely appropriate.

Oh, are you saying the coaching is lousy?I'd love to see someone try to argue that!

Ahhh, you're baiting me, LOL!I'd like to see anyone argue that they know all the factors leading to any coaching decision.

ETA: If you're going to criticize the coaching, the main culprit has to be Jauron. The defense wasn't even a speed bump!

That Weeden pick in the red zone on 3rd & 1 with a 7 pt lead completely deflated the entire team. Not happy about the way the defense responded, but that's not on Jauron.

followed immediately by the fumble and another short field, and losing his best player in the 2nd quarter. not to completely excuse the play, but this is also the first game you can even try to pin on Jauron.

Yep, if the team were a ballon that pick was a needle jammed right into it. Woulda been nice to see someone rally these guys though.

 

[daveR]

That must be one helluva FACTOR to take out Richardson on 3rd and 1 to throw the ball.

My first reaction was WTF??? I'd like to hear what they were thinking, too.Maybe because TRich just ran the ball twice they weren't convinced. Maybe because the last third & one he was stuffed for a 2 yard loss. Maybe there were problems on the o-line. Maybe the film showed them something they could exploit. Maybe Weeden changed the play. Maybe TRich took himself out. Maybe they wanted to balance the third down plays.In truth, I want to know!

 

[daveR]

I'm not going to defend the coaching because I have no basis on which to argue, and I will admit such. I will not say it was good or bad because "I know it when I see it." The majority of the coaching takes place off camera, so I can't even "see it".

It is good to know, however, that porn fans can acquire that ability.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

I'm not going to defend the coaching because I have no basis on which to argue, and I will admit such. I will not say it was good or bad because "I know it when I see it." The majority of the coaching takes place off camera, so I can't even "see it".

Look closely... 0-5, 4-17

 

[daveR]

I'm not going to defend the coaching because I have no basis on which to argue, and I will admit such. I will not say it was good or bad because "I know it when I see it." The majority of the coaching takes place off camera, so I can't even "see it".

Look closely... 0-5, 4-17

How much of that is due to coaching? Why do you think so? At how many positions would you say the Browns have superior talent over the Giants?