Cleveland Browns (7 Viewers)

[MAC_32]

DO NOT QUESTION THE MIGHTY PAT SHURMUR

 

[beer 302]

http://deadspin.com/5962605/the-cleveland-browns-will-be-giving-out-white-flags-for-fans-to-wave-during-sundays-game

You can't make this #### up guys, I give up

 

[dancingbones]

http://deadspin.com/5962605/the-cleveland-browns-will-be-giving-out-white-flags-for-fans-to-wave-during-sundays-gameYou can't make this #### up guys, I give up

As long as they don't give us our own emoticon on FBGs, it'll be all right.

 

[cstu]

http://deadspin.com/5962605/the-cleveland-browns-will-be-giving-out-white-flags-for-fans-to-wave-during-sundays-game

You can't make this #### up guys, I give up

As long as they don't give us our own emoticon on FBGs, it'll be all right.

 

[cstu]

This "third-and-one, pass-is-just-a-long-handoff" nonsense has to stop. I understand the concept, but it's not accurate and myopic.

First of all, the pass to the flat has difficult angles to contend with, both in pass completion and YAC. The percentages are not the same as a handoff.

Secondly, passing the ball in that situation means trying to outsmart the defense (a dubious concept to begin with). This fails to account for imposing one's will on the opponent. In fact, it concedes that battle! On top of that, in this specific instance we were doing well on the ground and poorly in the air.

Sounds like we need a coach who has actually been in a game.

I posted this in the game thread but it's worth reposting here:What a depressing loss. Had it and pissed it away. Weeden had a rookie game, missed way too many open opportunities, the coaching staff did their best to give the game away again AND WILL SOMEBODY BENCH MOTHER####ING GREG LITTLE!

Str8

Up

G

little

When daveR is calling for a coaching change, it's bad.

Even though I agree with you about Greg Little's route; based on the pictures I'm not sure the ball was thrown very accurately if Little came back to make the catch. That's nit-picking on Weeden, but I'll throw a bit of the blame on Weeden.

Hard to tell from the angle, but it looks like Little did what he had to do since he would have had to catch it out of bounds if he stayed at the 30.

 

[MAC_32]

After deciding the fate of heckert and officially ridding ourselves of shurmur the entire pr and marketing department needs replaced

 

[Biabreakable]

I found this interesting reading this morning-

Cleveland Browns running back Trent Richardson is taking a healthy heaping of blame for last Sunday's loss to the Dallas Cowboys.The rookie running back took responsibility for not cashing in from the 1-yard line with two minutes left in the fourth quarter. Specifically, he said his biggest mistake was the decision to try and leap in on third-and-goal instead of following his blocks."I can't take it back now, but it happens," the rookie running back said Wednesday, via Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. "I didn't see what I thought I saw. I tried to jump over the pile and I didn't score. I guess you can put the game on me. I guess I'm the reason why we lost."According to Cabot, Richardson initially sounded tongue-in-cheek, but he was being sincere about taking the blame."I'm really saying it," he said. "You can put the game on me. I'm a man. I'm going to man up to my mistakes and my faults. No man is scared away of his own faults or decision-making. I made my decision and I messed up. That happens when you make decisions right on the run. It just happens."We'd like to point out to Trent that his team actually took the lead after that failed possession only to surrender it in overtime. While the Browns ultimately lost, Richardson has been one of the bright spots on this dreadful team this season.Richardson accounted for 144 yards from scrimmage in the loss, but it was the one that he didn't get that bugged him. Taking responsibility shows that Richardson is a future leader of the Browns -- an important piece in what could be a major offseason shakeup.As for that one yard he didn't gain, Richardson won't complain about the fourth-down play call, but he wished he would have gotten another chance to pound it in."The play I wanted, we didn't call," he said. "Like I say, I'm with coach with whatever he calls."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000098990/article/trent-richardson-loss-to-dallas-cowboys-my-faultI like the maturity Richardson is showing by taking responsibility for his mistakes. But then the dig at the play calling is revealing as well.

 

[Bobcat10]

Nothing better than watching 75% of black and gold fans walking down the ailes with 3 minutes left in the game....when they had 3 timeouts....and ended up getting the ball back 2 more times.

 

[Godsbrother]

Nothing better than watching 75% of black and gold fans walking down the ailes with 3 minutes left in the game....when they had 3 timeouts....and ended up getting the ball back 2 more times.

Congrats on a glorious win.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Nothing better than watching 75% of black and gold fans walking down the ailes with 3 minutes left in the game....when they had 3 timeouts....and ended up getting the ball back 2 more times.

Punched em right in the mouth. They were so skeert they couldn't hold onto the ball.

 

[MAC_32]

Nothing better than watching 75% of black and gold fans walking down the ailes with 3 minutes left in the game....when they had 3 timeouts....and ended up getting the ball back 2 more times.

Punched em right in the mouth. They were so skeert they couldn't hold onto the ball.

Love, love, LOVE this defense.My God this offense is still a trainwreck though, should have put up 50. You're supposed to win ugly games, but you're also supposed to win good games too and we have done none of the latter.

 

[Bobcat10]

Nothing better than watching 75% of black and gold fans walking down the ailes with 3 minutes left in the game....when they had 3 timeouts....and ended up getting the ball back 2 more times.

Congrats on a glorious win.

It was just a nice site to see

 

[Godsbrother]

Nothing better than watching 75% of black and gold fans walking down the ailes with 3 minutes left in the game....when they had 3 timeouts....and ended up getting the ball back 2 more times.

Congrats on a glorious win.

It was just a nice site to see

As a Pirates fan I understand that any win is a thing of beauty. I was being sincere -- the Browns were the better team yesterday. Enjoy it.

 

[Bobcat10]

Nothing better than watching 75% of black and gold fans walking down the ailes with 3 minutes left in the game....when they had 3 timeouts....and ended up getting the ball back 2 more times.

Congrats on a glorious win.

It was just a nice site to see

As a Pirates fan I understand that any win is a thing of beauty. I was being sincere -- the Browns were the better team yesterday. Enjoy it.

Thanks. I sensed a bit of sarcasm cuz that was anything but glorious...but a win is a win. Trending upwards, IMO.

 

[Fallerjw]

First of all, it's always nice to beat division rival. Any win against PIT, CIN or BAL is a good win.

Having said that, the offense needs some work. I'm assuming the big factor has to be age, because there are a TON of high draft picks on the offense.

1st round - TRich, Weeden, Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Ben Watson

2nd round - Greg Little, MoMass, Josh Gordon, Schwartz, Hardesty

3rd round - Lauvoa, Alex Smith

The Browns had 4 scoring drives on Sunday:

33 yard FG drive 1st Quarter

10 yard TD drive 2nd Quarter

44 yard FG drive 2nd Quarter

31 yard TD drive 3rd Quarter

They also started drives at the PIT 34 and PIT 40 that ended up in punts. Good teams don't punt when they take over on the other team's 34.

In 11 games this year the Browns have scored more than 20 points exactly 3 times, but 2 of those 3 came against the Bengals.

So what do the Browns need to do to fix the offense? Better QB? Better WRs? Better coaching? All of the above?

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

So what do the Browns need to do to fix the offense? Better QB? Better WRs? Better coaching? All of the above?

Given that the team is 9 points away from matching last year's season total, I'd say some of the steps have already occurred.I can't see the team replacing Weeden after one year and this is a bad draft to do it in anyway. Gordon looks like a player who just needs experience. Personally I'd like to see one of the guard spots upgraded and it would obviously help Richardson if the team had an NFL-caliber FB. I actually got annoyed watching Vickers play for the Cowboys Thursday. I think the real question is does the team essentially give up on Little and draft high at WR. Obviously there will be a coaching change so we can hope for improvement there. I expect this off season to be focused on the defense. A starting LB, CB and FS could turn it into an elite unit.

 

[MAC_32]

So what do the Browns need to do to fix the offense? Better QB? Better WRs? Better coaching? All of the above?

Coaching is the biggest problem but there are still several play makers needed. Weeden hasn't shown he's even a top 20 QB yet, he has some very important games ahead to ensure his job for 2013. Gordon's developing quickly into the downfield threat, but we're still short a big, red zone guy. I think Little and Benjamin have roles, but they're #3's and #4's, not starters on the outside. We also have issues at TE. When Ben Watson is your best one that's not good. I think Cameron should get one more offseason, but backup plans need to be put in place and he may be best off as the pass catching #2. We could also use an all purpose guy, but I don't think it'd be smart to add this guy until the other holes are addressed. Again, all of these issues are 5, 7, 17 steps behind the coaching though.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

So what do the Browns need to do to fix the offense? Better QB? Better WRs? Better coaching? All of the above?

Given that the team is 9 points away from matching last year's season total, I'd say some of the steps have already occurred.I can't see the team replacing Weeden after one year and this is a bad draft to do it in anyway. Gordon looks like a player who just needs experience. Personally I'd like to see one of the guard spots upgraded and it would obviously help Richardson if the team had an NFL-caliber FB. I actually got annoyed watching Vickers play for the Cowboys Thursday. I think the real question is does the team essentially give up on Little and draft high at WR. Obviously there will be a coaching change so we can hope for improvement there. I expect this off season to be focused on the defense. A starting LB, CB and FS could turn it into an elite unit.

Agree with all of this, especially the last sentence.I think the offense mainly needs experience and better play-calling/utilization of what they have. It only took them 12 weeks to figure out to use Cameron in the red zone.

 

[MAC_32]

So what do the Browns need to do to fix the offense? Better QB? Better WRs? Better coaching? All of the above?

Given that the team is 9 points away from matching last year's season total, I'd say some of the steps have already occurred.I can't see the team replacing Weeden after one year and this is a bad draft to do it in anyway. Gordon looks like a player who just needs experience. Personally I'd like to see one of the guard spots upgraded and it would obviously help Richardson if the team had an NFL-caliber FB. I actually got annoyed watching Vickers play for the Cowboys Thursday. I think the real question is does the team essentially give up on Little and draft high at WR. Obviously there will be a coaching change so we can hope for improvement there. I expect this off season to be focused on the defense. A starting LB, CB and FS could turn it into an elite unit.

Agree with all of this, especially the last sentence.

I don't, we can win with this defense, we can't win with this offense.

 

[daveR]

First of all, it's always nice to beat division rival. Any win against PIT, CIN or BAL is a good win. Having said that, the offense needs some work. I'm assuming the big factor has to be age, because there are a TON of high draft picks on the offense. 1st round - TRich, Weeden, Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Ben Watson2nd round - Greg Little, MoMass, Josh Gordon, Schwartz, Hardesty3rd round - Lauvoa, Alex SmithThe Browns had 4 scoring drives on Sunday:33 yard FG drive 1st Quarter10 yard TD drive 2nd Quarter44 yard FG drive 2nd Quarter31 yard TD drive 3rd QuarterThey also started drives at the PIT 34 and PIT 40 that ended up in punts. Good teams don't punt when they take over on the other team's 34. In 11 games this year the Browns have scored more than 20 points exactly 3 times, but 2 of those 3 came against the Bengals. So what do the Browns need to do to fix the offense? Better QB? Better WRs? Better coaching? All of the above?

In general, I like the offensive talent. I don't see any glaring weakness / holes. In retrospect though, it's hard to imagine successfully implementing this offense with so many rookies. Maybe with a veteran QB who could direct the WRs, it would work. I dunno. Nor am I convinced that the WCO is the one to run these days. I think the OL is pretty good, better than average, and could use some depth and/or a pile-mover at guard. TRich is a beast, but we could use a real FB. IMO, we have everything we need at WR. The TEs are collectively average - meh. Overall, the talent is there.So... They need experience and possibly a different system.

 

[MAC_32]

In retrospect though, it's hard to imagine successfully implementing this offense with so many rookies.

No hindsight here, we were doomed from the beginning due to poor management. Expecting a roster full of kids to produce wins was quite simply illogical on all 3 of Holmgren, Heckert, and Shurmur's part.

 

[daveR]

In retrospect though, it's hard to imagine successfully implementing this offense with so many rookies.

No hindsight here, we were doomed from the beginning due to poor management. Expecting a roster full of kids to produce wins was quite simply illogical on all 3 of Holmgren, Heckert, and Shurmur's part.

If, indeed, they (or anybody, for that matter) expected wins, yes it was delusional.

 

[daveR]

Forgot to post an opinion on the QB, so here it is (FWIW)...

What we've got now is insufficient. If Weeden doesn't progress, he needs to be replaced. So far, the only improvement I've noticed is refraining from taking extreme chances. He still gets too many batted. He still throws wildly when it's fourth down and some "touch" is needed. IMO, he doesn't seem to understand how the windows and seams move and stretch as the pass patterns develop. (Admittedly, this is not verifiable, just an opinion.)

On the other hand, he is on a typical development pattern. The next step will be throwing 150 passes without an int. (I don't know why it happens this way, but it does.) I hope he gets there. If not, I don't know what we do for a QB.

 

[Bobcat10]

In retrospect though, it's hard to imagine successfully implementing this offense with so many rookies.

No hindsight here, we were doomed from the beginning due to poor management. Expecting a roster full of kids to produce wins was quite simply illogical on all 3 of Holmgren, Heckert, and Shurmur's part.

If, indeed, they (or anybody, for that matter) expected wins, yes it was delusional.

Maybe, but we're damn close to being jammed up in the AFC WC race IMO. That's why the axe will fall on Shurmur. Not sure about Heckert yet.

 

[MAC_32]

In retrospect though, it's hard to imagine successfully implementing this offense with so many rookies.

No hindsight here, we were doomed from the beginning due to poor management. Expecting a roster full of kids to produce wins was quite simply illogical on all 3 of Holmgren, Heckert, and Shurmur's part.

If, indeed, they (or anybody, for that matter) expected wins, yes it was delusional.

Maybe, but we're damn close to being jammed up in the AFC WC race IMO. That's why the axe will fall on Shurmur. Not sure about Heckert yet.

talent evaluation is not an issue to be sure, but his roster building philosophies don't seem to jive with banner. He was content waiting four, five years to win and banner said he would need to be in a straight jacket if it took that long. I agree with banner, the lack of urgency is a big issue I have had with the old regime for some time. I won't be heart broken if heckert goes, complacency was his undoing. And shurmur, obviously.

 

[Bobcat10]

In retrospect though, it's hard to imagine successfully implementing this offense with so many rookies.

No hindsight here, we were doomed from the beginning due to poor management. Expecting a roster full of kids to produce wins was quite simply illogical on all 3 of Holmgren, Heckert, and Shurmur's part.

If, indeed, they (or anybody, for that matter) expected wins, yes it was delusional.

Maybe, but we're damn close to being jammed up in the AFC WC race IMO. That's why the axe will fall on Shurmur. Not sure about Heckert yet.

talent evaluation is not an issue to be sure, but his roster building philosophies don't seem to jive with banner. He was content waiting four, five years to win and banner said he would need to be in a straight jacket if it took that long. I agree with banner, the lack of urgency is a big issue I have had with the old regime for some time. I won't be heart broken if heckert goes, complacency was his undoing. And shurmur, obviously.

Heckert is not going into offseason #1 though. I personally see the team improving and getting a little deeper. Who would have thought DL was going to be a strong point two years ago? So if Banner is win now, Heckert should be too, he's going into offseason #4.

 

[MAC_32]

Heckert is not going into offseason #1 though. I personally see the team improving and getting a little deeper. Who would have thought DL was going to be a strong point two years ago? So if Banner is win now, Heckert should be too, he's going into offseason #4.

Not the point I was making, I'm wary whether Heckert and Banner are eye to eye on the organizational building process given Heckert's first 3 years on the job and everything Banner has said since he got here. Oil, meet water.

 

[amnesiac]

to be fair, Heckert and Holmgren were on a five year schedule.

agree or disagree, i believe that was their intent.

 

[MAC_32]

to be fair, Heckert and Holmgren were on a five year schedule. agree or disagree, i believe that was their intent.

...and Banner said if it took 5 years you would need to put him in a straight jacket. Two completely different philosophies. I'm not saying Heckert has been great or he sucked, I'm saying I don't think his approach will mesh with Banner and would be mildly surprised if he's retained.

 

[nxmehta]

First of all, it's always nice to beat division rival. Any win against PIT, CIN or BAL is a good win.

Having said that, the offense needs some work. I'm assuming the big factor has to be age, because there are a TON of high draft picks on the offense.

1st round - TRich, Weeden, Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Ben Watson

2nd round - Greg Little, MoMass, Josh Gordon, Schwartz, Hardesty

3rd round - Lauvoa, Alex Smith

So what do the Browns need to do to fix the offense? Better QB? Better WRs? Better coaching? All of the above?

Holy cow, I didn't realize that the only starters on offense that are not 1st/2nd round picks are our two guards. That is nuts!

As mentioned before, the #1 issue is coaching, #2 is experience. Hopefully both of those will be fixed next year. It wouldn't hurt to get an elite guard either. And a veteran WR.

It's very surprising that our defense is performing this well- we are an LDE, OLB, FS, and maybe even a CB away from having elite talent. Those are some very important and hard to fill positions that typically require 1st round picks. Jauron is perfoming miracles over there.

 

[amnesiac]

to be fair, Heckert and Holmgren were on a five year schedule. agree or disagree, i believe that was their intent.

...and Banner said if it took 5 years you would need to put him in a straight jacket. Two completely different philosophies. I'm not saying Heckert has been great or he sucked, I'm saying I don't think his approach will mesh with Banner and would be mildly surprised if he's retained.

i would like to see him retained. why can't he keep running the draft and select some free agents? for all we know he was handcuffed by Holmgren in free agency because they thought they were working on a longer timetable.

 

[MAC_32]

to be fair, Heckert and Holmgren were on a five year schedule. agree or disagree, i believe that was their intent.

...and Banner said if it took 5 years you would need to put him in a straight jacket. Two completely different philosophies. I'm not saying Heckert has been great or he sucked, I'm saying I don't think his approach will mesh with Banner and would be mildly surprised if he's retained.

i would like to see him retained. why can't he keep running the draft and select some free agents? for all we know he was handcuffed by Holmgren in free agency because they thought they were working on a longer timetable.

If that's the case I say come back, Tom. I think Heckert ran the show personnel wise sans QB's though. Also, will Tom want to come back if his role is reduced? He left Philly to get more control, why would he stay here if it's just going to be taken away from him?

 

[Bobcat10]

Odds Jauron will be retained by the new head coach/regime? I think it's fair to say Shurmur is gonzo and Jauron likely is not looking for one last hurrah as a HC (if he'd even be approached by anyone). Maybe he wants to finish what he started. He seems like that kind of guy...and a good guy overall. If Banner is as good as he thinks he is, he should want to keep **** around too.

 

[MAC_32]

Odds Jauron will be retained by the new head coach/regime? I think it's fair to say Shurmur is gonzo and Jauron likely is not looking for one last hurrah as a HC (if he'd even be approached by anyone). Maybe he wants to finish what he started. He seems like that kind of guy...and a good guy overall. If Banner is as good as he thinks he is, he should want to keep **** around too.

I hope the firs thing Banner says to incoming candidates is - 'can you work with Jauron?' If no - thanks, see the receptionist to get your parking validated, buhbye.

 

[Bobcat10]

Crazy rumor our of Memphis that Gruden offered Vols job which includes 12% stake in Browns. Would the NFL even allow this?

 

[Lrbutler]

With the team winning just 4 games so far, have they achieved or disappoint your expectations? Because I thought they would win only 5-6 games this year because of their schedule.

 

[MAC_32]

With the team winning just 4 games so far, have they achieved or disappoint your expectations? Because I thought they would win only 5-6 games this year because of their schedule.

My expectations were an ugly start with better performances as we went along, especially when we got word of the Haden suspension and Richardson went under the knife on top of already being short Phil Taylor. I was optimistic about Schwartz, but he has exceeded expectations. I think where we really developed quicker than I thought was the play of the rookie DT's Winn and Hughes. They were going to be needed more than any of us were comfortable with Taylor already down, but then Rubin went down too. These guys didn't miss a beat. The play of the front 7 has allowed an average secondary (sans Haden) to look better than I expected, with Haden in tow this is a very difficult defense to do much against. Really like what we're doing there.We have won more games than I anticipated because Weeden hasn't blown as many winnable games as I thought he would, Shurmur has done everything he can to do so but the rookie hasn't crumbled in games we should win. It helps getting Norv Turner's fading fast Chargers in a 1 o clock slop fest and Big Ben-less Pittsburgh. Still, we haven't had any good games. Closest is probably Cincy, but that game had 7 consecutive 3-and-outs, so I find it hard to call that a success. We should win another close one this weekend, but as long as our final 3 opponents are playing for something (Washington is, Denver should be, Pittsburgh's 50/50) I think we lose them all.I'm a lot more optimistic about this team now than I was when we made pick #22 last year because of all the growth throughout the team, but most importantly the ownership change. Unaccountable Randy had to go, his poor ownership domino'd throughout the organization. I think the new guys have the right idea. Get the right guys in at the top then go from there. There are areas of the team that could use improvement, but the template they're working from is much better than the guys before them. Still 4 more games to figure out the priority positions to address.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

I've soured a little bit on the new regime with Banner being given too much power, IMO, and now word of Lombardi being the next GM.

 

[MAC_32]

I've soured a little bit on the new regime with Banner being given too much power, IMO, and now word of Lombardi being the next GM.

I'm having a hard time coming to terms with why so many people are as against the Lombardi hire, looks like a bunch of jumping to conclusions to me.

 

[Lrbutler]

I don't think a guy that has been out of football for some time working at a network is a good option or either a HC or GM. So I would have to agree with all the local haters.

 

[Bobcat10]

I've soured a little bit on the new regime with Banner being given too much power, IMO, and now word of Lombardi being the next GM.

I'm sorta with you here. Banner seems exactly like what I've heard. Same goes for Haslem, but on the opposite end of the spectrum (positive).Reports also leaking today that Heckert would stay with final say on the roster. I'm assuming that's coming from his people, but I still think if Banner wants to can him but Haslem wants him to stay, he's gonna stay.

 

[amnesiac]

Heckert has not been perfect.

BUT, when's the last time you remember this many good drafts in a row?

i think keeping Heckert is a no-brainer.

 

[MAC_32]

Heckert has not been perfect. BUT, when's the last time you remember this many good drafts in a row?i think keeping Heckert is a no-brainer.

He's proven to me that he is a very good scouting director, maybe director of player personnel. GM? Don't know, I have a hard time getting past how anti free agent he is. He is where he is right now because of him and Holmgren's decision making re QB, his disregard for all things free agent, and Holmgrem hiring Shurmur. Raw deal? Yeah, at least a bit, maybe a lot. Such is life in the NFL unfortunately. A good GM has to be better than just nailing the draft. It's a great start, but it's only one piece of the puzzle.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

He's proven to me that he is a very good scouting director, maybe director of player personnel. GM? Don't know, I have a hard time getting past how anti free agent he is. He is where he is right now because of him and Holmgren's decision making re QB, his disregard for all things free agent, and Holmgrem hiring Shurmur. Raw deal? Yeah, at least a bit, maybe a lot. Such is life in the NFL unfortunately. A good GM has to be better than just nailing the draft. It's a great start, but it's only one piece of the puzzle.

Banner is the same way if not worse concerning FAs and he's going to have final say now. Part of his issue in Philly was getting over ruled on bringing some FAs in.Personally I don't have a problem with that. Teams like the Packers, Steelers and Colts sign very few FAs and never a big name.

 

[MAC_32]

He's proven to me that he is a very good scouting director, maybe director of player personnel. GM? Don't know, I have a hard time getting past how anti free agent he is. He is where he is right now because of him and Holmgren's decision making re QB, his disregard for all things free agent, and Holmgrem hiring Shurmur. Raw deal? Yeah, at least a bit, maybe a lot. Such is life in the NFL unfortunately. A good GM has to be better than just nailing the draft. It's a great start, but it's only one piece of the puzzle.

Banner is the same way if not worse concerning FAs and he's going to have final say now. Part of his issue in Philly was getting over ruled on bringing some FAs in.Personally I don't have a problem with that. Teams like the Packers, Steelers and Colts sign very few FAs and never a big name.

I don't think Banner will repeat the mistakes he made in Philly. I don't want our star players being brought in via free agency, that's not a way to build a team, but you have to fill the gaps. Rucker & Parker this year are absolutely it. It's been a slow crawl back to competitiveness because the roster was decimated when they got here, they mismanaged the QB situation, ignored all things free agents, and botched the coaching hire. I'm willing to bet that last one was all Holmgren though, but it's not helping Heckert look good.

 

[daveR]

Looking at our current roster, I wonder what free agents could have been brought in to fill what holes.

 

[MAC_32]

Looking at our current roster, I wonder what free agents could have been brought in to fill what holes.

Current roster? WR. They desperately need a veteran voice to help mentor the kids. Qb too. I follow your point, just don't agree with it. He's been here for 3 years, the first 2 years featured a glutton of players no longer in football or on their last string. We needed stop gaps before bringing in younger replacements. There are going to be times for other free agents to be brought in the future too. Not asking for us to turn into the Jets or the post Banner Eagles, but teams that don't already have the cupboard stacked mix in key free agents and a lot of those teams are sitting atop the NFL or at least competing for playoff spots. Heckert's anti-free agency philosophy just wasn't a well thought out approach when he got here, his job's in jeopardy because of it. It was not a good decision and that's how GM's are evaluated, their decisions. The future looks brighter, but under his direction our team has gone 5-11, 4-12, and are currently 4-8. Over the last two years I can really only look at the body of work and say we have one good win, Cincinnati this year. Potential's certainly there, but fact is production has not.

 

[Lrbutler]

I am on the fence when it's heckerd because of some of the players, he has drafted for this team. I would like to see him stay and finish what hestarted, but I also think if the team can get a better and maybe better GM. Then the move would help them a little more in trying to be more then the league laughing stock.

 

[daveR]

Looking at our current roster, I wonder what free agents could have been brought in to fill what holes.

Current roster? WR. They desperately need a veteran voice to help mentor the kids. Qb too. I follow your point, just don't agree with it. He's been here for 3 years, the first 2 years featured a glutton of players no longer in football or on their last string. We needed stop gaps before bringing in younger replacements. There are going to be times for other free agents to be brought in the future too. Not asking for us to turn into the Jets or the post Banner Eagles, but teams that don't already have the cupboard stacked mix in key free agents and a lot of those teams are sitting atop the NFL or at least competing for playoff spots. Heckert's anti-free agency philosophy just wasn't a well thought out approach when he got here, his job's in jeopardy because of it. It was not a good decision and that's how GM's are evaluated, their decisions. The future looks brighter, but under his direction our team has gone 5-11, 4-12, and are currently 4-8. Over the last two years I can really only look at the body of work and say we have one good win, Cincinnati this year. Potential's certainly there, but fact is production has not.

Who should have been brought in, and who would you put on the bench?

 

[Bobcat10]

Looking at our current roster, I wonder what free agents could have been brought in to fill what holes.

Current roster? WR. They desperately need a veteran voice to help mentor the kids. Qb too. I follow your point, just don't agree with it. He's been here for 3 years, the first 2 years featured a glutton of players no longer in football or on their last string. We needed stop gaps before bringing in younger replacements. There are going to be times for other free agents to be brought in the future too. Not asking for us to turn into the Jets or the post Banner Eagles, but teams that don't already have the cupboard stacked mix in key free agents and a lot of those teams are sitting atop the NFL or at least competing for playoff spots. Heckert's anti-free agency philosophy just wasn't a well thought out approach when he got here, his job's in jeopardy because of it. It was not a good decision and that's how GM's are evaluated, their decisions. The future looks brighter, but under his direction our team has gone 5-11, 4-12, and are currently 4-8. Over the last two years I can really only look at the body of work and say we have one good win, Cincinnati this year. Potential's certainly there, but fact is production has not.

Who should have been brought in, and who would you put on the bench?

Parker and Rucker are examples of great use of free agency. It helped turn one of the team weaknesses into possibly the strongest part of the team. I think we all begged for WR and that's where MAC is still hung up. MoMass got a much longer leash than Robiskie and they have bottlenecked the process. They should have given up on someone like Norwood or MoMass sooner and brought in a true vet WR. Other than that, it's hard to really fault them IMO for their use of free agency. The youth movement they wanted to go through limits free agency as you have to stockpile the youth and flesh out what you want/don't want. That's a process over a period of time. Bringing in a bunch of free agents doesn't mesh with that. Now if they refuse to use free agency to possibly get the team over the hump or strengthen a position with a veteran as the team improves, then we have an issue. I think that's also what some people are scared of.