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Cleveland Browns (8 Viewers)

Let this doozy that I got from Allbright on Twitter sink in:

Bill Belichick would have to lose 1070 football games (66.875 seasons)...IN A ROW...to fall to the same losing percentage as Hue Jackson as Head Coach.

 
Bobcat10 said:
(just not until the bye week, I think)
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I agree with Daryl Ruiter, why wait? You're going to lose the next three games with the current set up so rip the band aid off. Hue is lost, his team is quitting on him and now he's publicly throwing one of his coordinators under the bus. My opinion, don't wait. The time has come. You've given him the chance you thought he deserved and it's not working, it's just not. 14 penalties for a 100 gajillion yards... again! (tied for league lead btw)

lod001 said:
Make sure Todd Haley goes with him. He's proven garbage.
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Can't fire the interim coach!

 
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Bobcat10 said:
How many more botches did he add to his resume today?  For sure was not taking the points at the end of the 1st half....down 14, he'd rather go for 4th and 2 at the opponents 11 rather than try to take some momentum into half and chip into the lead.
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I think not going for those two FGs are big issues there.  Those are points he left on the board that could have changed the momentum and the game.  Instead, thats when he decides to go for it.  Does he no longer trust the kicker?  Joseph did well last week, and from that close of range he would have been fine.  His decisions just don't seem to make any sense.  

After having slept on it, the one thing that bothers me the most is that hit on Baker.  It was a helmet to helmet hit - could even be called targeting.  Baker was clearly in the movement of sliding when the hit occurred.  I get it, bang-bang play with the defender already in motion when Baker began his slide.  I can see that side of the argument.  But for Hue to stand idly by and not go after the refs when they picked up the flag and said "the defense is allowed to hit the QB in the head" - it is asinine and cowardly.  Hue should have stood up for his players!  We all know that's not the right call, given all of the safety protocols out there to protect QBs.  If that was Brady, Rogers, or even Goff - it would be a penalty for helmet to helmet, and in most cases targeting with the defensive player being ejected for the game.  But where was Hue when all this went down? on the sideline.  I would have expected him to be jawing in the ref's ear, being a little animated that his talented young QB just had his bell rung in a careless manner.  I expected a headset to be slammed on the ground after the ref deemed it open season on Baker's head after the issued the statement over the loud-speaker.  But nothing.  He stood there quietly.

Maybe he doesn't like to make a scene.  Maybe he'll address it in his post-game PC.  Nope.  Nothing.  Who cares if you know the NFL will fine you for speaking ill of the refs to the media.  It was an egregious hit!  I would expect the leader of the team to call this out using every medium available.  If Brady gets a helmet in his earhole, is BB quiet?  Do you think Reid would be quiet if Mahomes took the same hit as Baker?  I know I don't think they would be quiet.  They would be telling the world what they thought, with no worries about a fine.  How do you think Tom is now wrapped in bubble-wrap and you can't get 5 feet close to him without yellow flags littering the ground.  

Hue didn't say anything about the hit.  But he did throw his OC under the bus.  Not to mention saying for the ump-teenth time, "I need to review the film."  Pathetic.

The clip of Baker's hit is all over social media.  The CLE media are standing up for Baker and calling the NFL out for how the refs treated this situation and opened "Baker season" up to the defense by deeming the helmet to helmet hit legal. But not Hue.  He's reviewing film.

Can't wait to see this great offense be unleashed against Pittsburgh on Sunday.  If you don't have the Steelers Defense on your FF team now, you better rush to the WW and grab them.  It'll be a blowout.  Go look the last two years at Hue's offense and let me know how you think this will work.  

 
Peak said:
I'd think Haley would be interim and they go into a full search during the off-season.

No to McCoy. He's been fired three years in a row.  Twice mid season.

Wouldn't mind Riley.  That would be interesting to see. It'll depend on his coordinators.

I think it may take a younger, creative guy to complete the change here.  Someone similar to McVay. 
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https://www.theringer.com/2018/10/22/18008378/what-the-playoffs-will-look-like-in-the-afc

They talk about Lincoln to the browns at the end of this podcast from last night

 
Hit on Mayfield that was ruled a penalty, then nullified as ref called it an "allowable" hit to the head on the QB.  WTF?!?

Found this article excerpt of it from FootballZebras who reviews poor calls each week:

Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield makes a late decision in sliding and is contacted in the helmet by Buccaneers safety Jordan Whitehead. Initially a flag was thrown, after a conference, referee Shawn Hochuli announced that the flag was being picked up. The reason was announced that Mayfield could permissibly be hit in the head because he did not begin his slide.

It is true that a runner can be contacted in the head, and a quarterback who slides also cannot get protection if he makes that decision when contact is imminent. A quarterback when sliding gets protection from forcible blows to the head, delivered by the opponent's helmet or otherwise. The crew went with this provision, determining the slide had not commenced, and therefore legal contact to the helmet. For that part, we will just leave this as a judgment call.

This call, made in real time, does omit a very important provision. Whitehead approached Mayfield in violation of the new use-of-helmet rule. Whitehead lowers his head and only has a view of the ground. He also uses the helmet to deliver a forcible blow; it doesn't matter that the contact was with Mayfield's helmet, because the UOH foul applies to how the contact is delivered. Therefore, the flag should have remained.

Whether it is an ejectable offense is also debatable. Ultimately, the league office could not issue an ejection via replay because the crew picked up the foul. Had they left the flag down, the replay command center could tack on an ejection if they felt it was warranted.
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I guess this is yet another week where the NFL will send an apology letter on how their referees missed a call.  SMH

 
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If the league got hit in the pocket book if the officials continually screw one team with bad calls then it would stop.   

What has it been, four weeks in a row?  It really feels like this is not fair at this point.

They should have to refund season ticket holders if the league obviously blows two calls in a season that cost a team wins and donate tickets to charity for any empty seats on remaining games.   They should fire any official who makes two obvious blown calls that cost more than one win in a season.   And for a replay official who has the tape they should be fired during the game if they blow a call because their is no excuse.  

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On a far better note, Emmanuel Ogbah had himself a game.

  • 4 solos
  • 1 assist
  • 1.5 sacks
  • 2 passes defensed 
AND he had a sack taken away on a Christian Kirskey 'tickey tackey' hands to the face penalty that lead to the Bucs 2nd touchdown where the sack would have ended that drive.

 
It's convenient to blame the refs for losses and some bad calls certainly haven't gone our way, but put yourself into a position for what the refs are doing not to matter.  There's a reason they continuously seem to swing our games - it's because we're not playing well enough.  We put ourselves in a 50/50 situation, allowing them to then unintentionally influence which side of the coin wins.  Lesson learned, don't put yourself in the 50/50 situation in the first place.

 
MAC_32 said:
It's convenient to blame the refs for losses and some bad calls certainly haven't gone our way, but put yourself into a position for what the refs are doing not to matter.  There's a reason they continuously seem to swing our games - it's because we're not playing well enough.  We put ourselves in a 50/50 situation, allowing them to then unintentionally influence which side of the coin wins.  Lesson learned, don't put yourself in the 50/50 situation in the first place.
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Unless it happens for weeks in a row and changes the outcome of games.  

If you have a dog and their is a house with an unkempt lawn sitting next to perfectly manicured lawns you're more likely to direct him to the unkempt home to take his dumps.  IOWs if this happened to the Patriots four weeks in a row you can bet that EVERY SINGLE freaken ESPN talk show would devote entire segments to getting the poor call emergency fixed but if it happens with the lowly Browns?  Let the officials keep taking dumps until they are forced to correct it.  

Four weeks is enough.  It isn't just a matter of convenience, it is to the point that the league should take action because weekly apologies aren't cutting it.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Unless it happens for weeks in a row and changes the outcome of games.  

If you have a dog and their is a house with an unkempt lawn sitting next to perfectly manicured lawns you're more likely to direct him to the unkempt home to take his dumps.  IOWs if this happened to the Patriots four weeks in a row you can bet that EVERY SINGLE freaken ESPN talk show would devote entire segments to getting the poor call emergency fixed but if it happens with the lowly Browns?  Let the officials keep taking dumps until they are forced to correct it.  

Four weeks is enough.  It isn't just a matter of convenience, it is to the point that the league should take action because weekly apologies aren't cutting it.
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We had three first downs and 54 yards of offense in the first half.  We forced 4 turnovers and scored just 1 time off of them - despite starting with the ball at the TB 19, 26, and 45 on 3 of them. But, REEEEEEEEEEFFFFFSSSS.

 
MAC_32 said:
We had three first downs and 54 yards of offense in the first half.  We forced 4 turnovers and scored just 1 time off of them - despite starting with the ball at the TB 19, 26, and 45 on 3 of them. But, REEEEEEEEEEFFFFFSSSS.
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This is how you do not convert 3nrd downs to 1st downs in the NFL:

3rd and 13, 5 yard pass.

3rd and 14, 6 yard pass.

3rd and 11, 7 yard pass.

3rd & 10, 8 yard pass.

Just when you thought they were working towards sending the WRs to the 1st down marker, nope.  3rd & 16, 5 yard pass.   

Haley is pure garbage.

 
MAC_32 said:
We had three first downs and 54 yards of offense in the first half.  We forced 4 turnovers and scored just 1 time off of them - despite starting with the ball at the TB 19, 26, and 45 on 3 of them. But, REEEEEEEEEEFFFFFSSSS.
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It's ALL fair game, Mac.  Could be playing a great game and get hosed.  Doesn't matter.

 
lod001 said:
This is how you do not convert 3nrd downs to 1st downs in the NFL:

3rd and 13, 5 yard pass.

3rd and 14, 6 yard pass.

3rd and 11, 7 yard pass.

3rd & 10, 8 yard pass.

Just when you thought they were working towards sending the WRs to the 1st down marker, nope.  3rd & 16, 5 yard pass.   

Haley is pure garbage.
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How do you know the other 2-4 options in the play weren't at/near/beyond the marker? 

We heard that they wanted Baker to check down more too.  Could be the kid listens.

 
Bobcat10 said:
It's ALL fair game, Mac.  Could be playing a great game and get hosed.  Doesn't matter.
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Agreed, but good teams focus on what they can control.  You can't control what the zebras do or don't do.  You can control what your own team does.  And ours gave Tampa Bay 7 first downs via penalty.  Good teams don't do that.

 
MAC_32 said:
Agreed, but good teams focus on what they can control.  You can't control what the zebras do or don't do.  You can control what your own team does.  And ours gave Tampa Bay 7 first downs via penalty.  Good teams don't do that.
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Don't disagree.  But....

How do you prevent the situation where refs are missing blatant false starts?  This happened two weeks straight.

How do you prevent a defender from leading with his helmet into one of our players?  Especially if said player doesn't see it coming, or is giving himself up on the play...you know, the way they were taught to do by the league.

How do you prevent blatant offensive holding penalties that aren't called? Do we just tell our defensive players to stop on the play once the hold occurs?  Or do we tell them not to engage with that player again, the same way you'd tell your 5 yr old to stop playing with the kid that bullies them all day?

Those are the types of plays/calls I'm fed up with that aren't being called.  How do you prevent these plays from occurring?  There isn't a way to prevent it.  Simply winning or playing a more structured game on your side of the ball doesn't stop what the other team is doing, and what the refs do/don't see.

There is fault on this team as well, I agree with you wholeheartedly.  But these other calls that are out of the team's control is getting ridiculous.  We've compiled more apology letters from the league than this team has compiled wins this season.  Utterly ridiculous.

 
Peak said:
Don't disagree.  But....

How do you prevent the situation where refs are missing blatant false starts?  This happened two weeks straight.

How do you prevent a defender from leading with his helmet into one of our players?  Especially if said player doesn't see it coming, or is giving himself up on the play...you know, the way they were taught to do by the league.

How do you prevent blatant offensive holding penalties that aren't called? Do we just tell our defensive players to stop on the play once the hold occurs?  Or do we tell them not to engage with that player again, the same way you'd tell your 5 yr old to stop playing with the kid that bullies them all day?

Those are the types of plays/calls I'm fed up with that aren't being called.  How do you prevent these plays from occurring?  There isn't a way to prevent it.  Simply winning or playing a more structured game on your side of the ball doesn't stop what the other team is doing, and what the refs do/don't see.

There is fault on this team as well, I agree with you wholeheartedly.  But these other calls that are out of the team's control is getting ridiculous.  We've compiled more apology letters from the league than this team has compiled wins this season.  Utterly ridiculous.
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Maybe it's just me, but I don't get up in arms about things I can't control.  I expect poor officiating.  It's been the case in every sport I've ever played/followed and as the players get bigger/faster and replay has taken over it's only enhanced the issue.  I also think it's just a convenient distraction for when your team loses - real housewives for men sorta stuff.  But #####ing about the refs engages conversation and draws ratings, so it's what most people do.  Even though if you just kicked a field goal at the end of the half or not fumble a punt trying to get an extra 2 yards in overtime or showed a pulse offensively in the 1st half among dozens of other things it wouldn't matter so no one would be talking about it.

 
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Bracie Smathers said:
On a far better note, Emmanuel Ogbah had himself a game.

  • 4 solos
  • 1 assist
  • 1.5 sacks
  • 2 passes defensed 
AND he had a sack taken away on a Christian Kirskey 'tickey tackey' hands to the face penalty that lead to the Bucs 2nd touchdown where the sack would have ended that drive.
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Ogbah went Cerrano: "I'm pissed off now, Jobu. Look, I go to you. I stick up for you. You no help me now. I say '#### you Jobu', I do it myself."

MAC_32 said:
It's convenient to blame the refs for losses and some bad calls certainly haven't gone our way, but put yourself into a position for what the refs are doing not to matter.  There's a reason they continuously seem to swing our games - it's because we're not playing well enough.  We put ourselves in a 50/50 situation, allowing them to then unintentionally influence which side of the coin wins.  Lesson learned, don't put yourself in the 50/50 situation in the first place.
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You're right and I'm not blaming this on the refs. I am holding them accountable for an egregious miss on the Baker call though. The kid popped back up but damn, what happens if his bell gets rung? And #### you NFL and your letter of apology coming this week. Save it, makes you look stupid.

MAC_32 said:
Agreed, but good teams focus on what they can control.  You can't control what the zebras do or don't do.  You can control what your own team does.  And ours gave Tampa Bay 7 first downs via penalty.  Good teams don't do that.
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Absolutely agree. We have to stop the stupid stuff that we can control. I just don't see this amount of penalties with other teams that win on a consistent basis. I'm sure it happens and I have a laser focus on the Browns but offsides is a stupid penalty and it does one of two things, kills our drive or boosts the opponents. I hate it and that is disciple and coaching IMO.

 
MAC_32 said:
Maybe it's just me, but I don't get up in arms about things I can't control.  I expect poor officiating.  It's been the case in every sport I've ever played/followed and as the players get bigger/faster and replay has taken over it's only enhanced the issue.  I also think it's just a convenient distraction for when your team loses - real housewives for men sorta stuff.  But #####ing about the refs engages conversation and draws ratings, so it's what most people do.  Even though if you just kicked a field goal at the end of the half or not fumble a punt trying to get an extra 2 yards in overtime or showed a pulse offensively in the 1st half among dozens of other things it wouldn't matter so no one would be talking about it.
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You're absolutely correct but regardless of if we would have won or not I would still be talking about this today because with the dialed up interest in QB safety, with the focus on preventing concussions, with the safety of the players paramount in today's game and finally, after you throw a flag on the play, you pick it up and say it's ok to pop him in the head. I'm sorry man but that's totally wrong on every level. It's not a convenient distraction, it's illegal by every degree you measure today's game and they picked the flag up.

https://twitter.com/ShiftyJuice/status/1054098659149836293

One you forgot, how about you block Carl? Talk about a game, ole boy brought it.

 
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MAC_32 said:
Maybe it's just me, but I don't get up in arms about things I can't control.  I expect poor officiating.  It's been the case in every sport I've ever played/followed and as the players get bigger/faster and replay has taken over it's only enhanced the issue.  I also think it's just a convenient distraction for when your team loses - real housewives for men sorta stuff.  But #####ing about the refs engages conversation and draws ratings, so it's what most people do.  Even though if you just kicked a field goal at the end of the half or not fumble a punt trying to get an extra 2 yards in overtime or showed a pulse offensively in the 1st half among dozens of other things it wouldn't matter so no one would be talking about it.
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Fair enough, I get it -  and again, I don't disagree with you at all.  There is a lot to clean up in our own practice field.  But it is very annoying when the league puts forth an effort to make sure these rules are in place, only to see their own officials ignore them.  I would like to see some type of instrument in place that holds the refs accountable, similar to what @Bracie Smathers mentioned earlier.  Something to call out their mistakes and penalize them.  The shield needs to put the onus on their employees, just as much as they do the players who violate the rules.

 
beer 30 said:
You're absolutely correct but regardless of if we would have won or not I would still be talking about this today because with the dialed up interest in QB safety, with the focus on preventing concussions, with the safety of the players paramount in today's game and finally, after you throw a flag on the play you pick it up and say it's ok to pop him in the head. I'm sorry man but that's totally wrong on every level. It's not a convenient distraction, it's illegal by every degree you measure today's and they picked the flag up.

https://twitter.com/ShiftyJuice/status/1054098659149836293

One you forgot, how about you block Carl? Talk about a game, ole boy brought it.
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This is absolutely spot on.  The Browns had their chances to win the game and the refs seem to have a part in the outcomes of many games each week.  However, most importantly, the non-call for the helmet to helmet hit on Baker makes the NFL a total joke.  The NFL cannot call these pathetic roughing the passer calls in one game and then let Baker get blasted in the head without true fans rolling their eyes.  There is a big favoritism problem in the NFL.   If Brady or Rodgers get breathed on wrong, flags are flying.  The NFL has explaining to do. 

 
Peak said:
Let the backpedaling begin.....

#Browns According to CBD with Joe Thomas Hue Jackson didn’t really mean what he said yesterday about play calling and Todd Haley it was just heat of the moment and he’ll clear it up today at 2:30
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Hue Jackson admits that his comments yesterday might not have come off the right way or as intended #Browns  - Honestly honey, it's not what you think?  I tripped and.....

#Browns Hue Jackson on what he told Todd Haley: "That I would do anything that he needs. That I would like to help any way I can." - You know I love you, I'll do anything you want....

Hue Jackson says he liked both fourth down play calls - especially the 4th & 2 at ends of half. #Browns - You don't leave points on the board in the middle of the game.  Poor decision

"Our players and our coaches are doing everything we can to win each day" - Hue Jackson #Browns - That's a standard line to give at PCs.  Of course I'm trying.  If not, why would I be here?

 
"Huecifer was probably told to walk that back today or look for work tomorrow" 

4 outa 7 OT games... what's the single season record??  Can't be much more.

We need to go to PIT and put it together.   I never had playoff aspirations this year, but they need to either figure out how to close out games, or send Huecifer packin.

 
Scathing article by another CLE Beat Reporter.  I think she nailed a few of these right on the head.

Coordinators feel pain of embattled Browns Coach Hue Jacksons ego

BEREA — On Sunday, Browns coach Hue Jackson stabbed offensive coordinator Todd Haley in the back.

On Monday, Jackson tried to slip out the knife and repair the damage.

In the wake of another gut-wrenching overtime loss, a 26-23 road defeat to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Jackson vowed to get more involved in the offense. The Browns (2-4-1) have produced just one touchdown and eight points in the first quarter and totaled three points in four overtimes.

“He’s the play caller,” Jackson said of Haley on Sunday. “Trust me when I say I’m not trying to create any issue here. But I think if the offense is not playing well, and we haven’t over a period of time, being a head coach and an offensive guy who’s done this, I think I have every right as a head coach to jump in and see if I can help. ...”

“Trust me” is a red flag that should be banished from Jackson’s vocabulary. But his declaration smacked of the exchange with Haley over resting injury-prone players in an episode of HBO’s “Hard Knocks” when Jackson said, “At the end of the day, I get to drive this bus, and I’m going to get it the way I want it.”

On Monday, Jackson tried to salve the wounds. All smiles, he was friendly and cooperative, taking more questions when his news conference was about to be cut off. The media saw the Jackson who can schmooze his way out of anything, even a 1-31 record his first two seasons. He was in full manipulation mode, using perhaps the same talent for damage control that he practices on owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam every week.

Jackson pointed out that he never said he would take over play-calling. He blamed his comments on the way his words were interpreted by the media and his frustration after the Browns lost their third game by three points, even though such moments are when his true feelings are likely revealed.

“Sometimes the way maybe it came off, and I take responsibility for that, it wasn’t in harshness of the staff. It’s in harshness of ‘God, I want to win,’” Jackson said.

The Browns lost again, and Hue Jackson’s time as head coach may be running short.

Jackson said Haley is “very open” to allowing Jackson to assist him. The strong-willed Haley, whose contract with the Pittsburgh Steelers was not renewed after last season, may be biding his time, hoping to be named interim coach if Jackson is fired before the season ends.

Since training camp, there have been seemingly harmless examples of Jackson not being able to work with Haley. Another came when since-traded receiver Josh Gordon started the season opener against the Steelers, which went against Jackson’s wishes. After the game, Jackson said that was a “mistake” and a “miscommunication” with Haley. Taken as a group, such examples add up to a continuing disconnect between the coach and his offensive coordinator, matters that should be sorted out in private.

In Raymond James Stadium, Jackson’s ego was on full display. In saying he wasn’t trying to create an issue, he created an issue.

It may be no coincidence that only two coaches (not counting quality-control positions and assistants to the assistant) have been with Jackson for all three seasons. Those are tight ends coach Greg Seamon and senior offensive assistant Al Saunders. The Haslams may seek continuity with their coach — the only defense for keeping Jackson after an 0-16 season in 2017 — but Jackson’s staff has been rife with change.

As Jackson tries to teach a group of young players how to become a team, there are times when he seems incapable of putting that into practice with his coaching staff. It has become clear that he is not one of those who lets his coaches coach.

Hiring Haley to call the plays seemed like a lifeline that would allow Jackson to concentrate on other game-day responsibilities. Whether it has worked is debatable. When asked about Sunday’s 14 penalties for 114 yards — an indicator of a lack of discipline that falls at the coach’s feet — he pulled out the red flag and it was not the challenge flag.

“Trust me, some of these penalties ... We’ll get the customary paper back that hopefully says it wasn’t a penalty. Some are, some aren’t,” he said Monday.

Jackson said he didn’t believe he was passing the buck, blaming the offense’s woes on Haley and then setting himself up as the one who will swoop in and save it. But he did the same again near the end of Monday’s press conference.

“All of this falls squarely on me. So if it’s going to fall squarely on me, if I can help, I don’t care if it’s offense, defense or special teams. I’ve helped the special teams and nobody said anything,” Jackson said.

Nobody but him, that is. Somewhere inside Browns headquarters, Haley and special teams coordinator Amos Jones may be comparing knife wounds.
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Someone will not be getting the Honey-Baked Ham that Hue sends out to his "true" media friends, like MKC and Silver.  Trust me...

 
Another reporter off the Hue Jackson Xmas Ham Gift List....

Hue Jackson talked, and created his own problems with Todd Haley

CLEVELAND -- Hue Jackson is right about many of the problems with the Browns offense.

They start too slow. They don't do a good job protecting quarterback Baker Mayfield. They aren't scoring enough points.

He's also right about having experience calling plays and shaping offenses. He succeeded in that role as the offensive coordinator with the Cincinnati Bengals. That was part of the reason the Browns hired him as head coach in 2016.

But Jackson is wrong when he blames the media for trying to create division between himself and offensive coordinator Todd Haley. 

For decades, I've listened to frustrated Browns coaches immediately after losses.

I've never heard a head coach speak so publicly about needing to step into a coordinator's domain as Jackson did after Sunday's 26-23 loss in Tampa.

"I've got to jump in head first all hands, feet and everything to go figure that out," Jackson said after losing yet again in overtime.

Jackson called plays in his first two seasons as the Browns' head coach. I wondered if he'd continue to let Haley to do that job if the team struggled.

"I feel like I have to and I want to (help the offense)," Jackson said after the game. "I'm not going to continue to watch something that I know how to do...That's just the truth. That's nothing against anyone in the building."

Because Jackson was an offensive coordinator, he has to know how he'd feel if his head coach was so publicly critical.

This is not to defend Haley. He's struggled with a team that has scored only four touchdowns in the last three games.

It's mind-boggling that the Browns have scored only six points (two field goals) in the first quarters of seven games this season.

Haley has an offense with a rookie quarterback, a rookie left tackle, a rookie running back and some very young receivers. No one should expect a powerhouse.

But the offense is in a major regression after showing some early season promise.

CLEANING UP A MESS?

I reviewed what Jackson said because he's trying to blame others for his own problems.

He talked publicly about helping the offense and "infusing himself" into it. Those points could be made in a meeting with Haley and other coaches on offense.

Just the coaches, no one else needs to know.

I'm sure other head coaches have shown that kind of discretion.

But being so vocal, so public and so critical of his offensive coordinator is a failure of leadership on his part.

He also said Sunday, "I'm the head coach of this football team. Period. Period. There's nothing else that needs to be said. Nothing. That's the way it works.

"I'm the head coach of the football team. That's it. It's not about butting heads. I'm the head coach of the football team."

At least four times, he mentioned he's the head coach.

He did the same in the first episode of Hard Knocks when Haley questioned Jackson about having players sit out practice to avoid injuries.

It's odd Jackson feels he has to keep reminding people that he's the head coach. It's not a good sign.

"It was not harshness on the staff," Jackson explained Monday. "It was harshness of I want to win."

No matter how Jackson tried make nice on Monday, he's opened the door to speculation of there being a significant split within the coaching staff.

That's especially true because Haley is a former head coach, a veteran offensive coordinator and has a very strong personality.

MOVING FORWARD

Jackson insisted he still has the full support of ownership and of General Manager John Dorsey.

But he knows his job is on the line. His record is 3-35-1 in three seasons, and he has yet to win a road game. The road losing streak is at 19 heading into Sunday's game in Pittsburgh.

I'm not sure firing Jackson in the middle of the season solves much -- unless there is someone available right now the Browns would want to be full-time coach next season.

Interim head coaches rarely work.

Somehow, Jackson has to not only "fix the offense," he has to repair the damage he did to his coaching staff.

At Monday's press conference, a much calmer and better prepared Jackson insisted, "I never said I'd take over the play calling (from Haley)."

He also explained: "When I brought Todd Haley here, I made the commitment to give him total autonomy of the offense."

He added that he worked with Special Teams Coach Amos Jones the last few weeks to improve that area of the team, and no one complained about that.

That's because he didn't seem to be criticizing his special teams coach. His comments were measured.

If he did the same with Haley, he wouldn't be having all the headaches he does right now.
Click to expand...

 
https://www.cleveland.com/expo/sports/erry-2018/10/eb346567e22413/baker-mayfields-sacks-is-he-ho.html#incart_river_index

Thought this highlighted some good stuff regarding our passing game, sacks allowed, and struggling offense.

 
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ghostguy123 said:
Please finally fire Hue.  Please.  Please. Please fire Hue.  
Click to expand...
Got a feeling that it may not happen until the bye week.  If they get completely destroyed on Sunday, then maybe sooner. But it doesn't feel logical to do before the Bye.

With that said, the sooner the better.

 
And right on time....Yet no apology....only that they "recognize" the hit should have been a penalty.  When is the NFL going to start holding their refs accountable for these kinds of mistakes?

NFL Aware helmet to helmet hit on BM should have been a penalty

The NFL recognizes that Tampa Bay Buccaneers safety Jordan Whitehead should have been penalized for a hit on Cleveland Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield on Sunday, a source familiar with the league's thinking said Tuesday.

Whitehead could have been flagged for one of two infractions: unnecessary roughness for a hit to the head of a sliding player or unsportsmanlike conduct for using his helmet to hit a player, the source said.

The NFL is not commenting on the hit. Fines are typically announced on Fridays. If the league fines Whitehead, it will be public affirmation that the play should have been penalized.

The hit occurred in the Bucs' 26-23overtime win on Sunday. Mayfield slid at the end of a 35-yard run on second-and-26 in the fourth quarter. Shortly after Mayfield's knee hit the ground, Whitehead's helmet hit the side of Mayfield's head.

Whitehead lowered his head to make the hit and used the crown of his helmet. Both are textbook examples of what the league does not want and are included in the descriptions of hits that could lead to a player being ejected.

Officials initially flagged the play, but after a conference, referee Shawn Hochuli announced that the flag would be picked up.

"The quarterback was still a runner and therefore is allowed to be hit in the head," Hochuli said to the crowd. "He had not yet begun to slide."

Mayfield was ruled down at the Tampa Bay 41-yard line with 7:47 left and the Browns trailing 23-16. A 15-yard penalty would have moved the Browns to the 26. The Browns moved to the Bucs' 1 on the drive but failed to score on a fourth-down quarterback sneak.

When Mayfield started to slide is a judgment call; hits to the head are not. Sliding players are protected by league rule from hits to the head. The league knows the penalty should have been called, according to a source.

"There's a lot of stuff being put out on protecting the quarterback," Mayfield said after the game. "Doesn't seem like the Browns are getting a lot of calls, but they can review it, and they can say I was a runner, but I started my slide. That's helmet-to-helmet contact."

Browns coach Hue Jackson said after the game that he did not understand why the flag was picked up. Other players complained. On Monday, Jackson said the team would ask the league for clarification.

"That was disappointing," Jackson said. "That is all that I can say."
Click to expand...

 
This week we're  7 1/2 point dogs, playing on the road in Pittsburgh coming off our 4th OT game and Pittsburgh is rested coming off a bye.  

Next week we have KC and don't have any layups the rest of the year.  We're looking at 2-6-1 in two weeks.  If the draft were held today we'd be picking 7th.

Slump puts Browns back in dreaded draft watch

Falling to 2-4-1 has left the Browns with only one more win than the worst team in the NFL and back in the conversation about which teams will draft highest when the current season blows over. A look at the bottom teams.

Entering Week 8, the only teams with worse records than the Browns were:

1-6: 49ers, Cardinals, Giants

1-5: Raiders

2-5: Bills, Colts

That leaves the Browns in the No. 7 position.

In the 2019 NFL Draft, the Browns have their own picks in Rounds 1-6. They also possess:

- A third-round pick from New England, via trading 2015 No. 12 overall pick Danny Shelton trade.

- A fifth-round pick from Jacksonville (via last weekend’s Carlos Hyde trade, who arrived in March as a free agent).

- A fifth-round pick from New England (via last month’s Josh Gordon trade).

- A conditional seventh-round pick from Jacksonville (via the Cody Kessler trade early this year).
Click to expand...
Mayfield keeps us in every game but even Peyton Manning struggled his first season (3-13).

We've got the QB,  pass rusher(s), RBs, slot WR, TE, CBs, LBs, DT, Ss, OGs, C, P, and possibly even have a punt returner.

We don't have tons of holes on the team. 

We are looking at 2-6-1 in two weeks.  The bright side is we're transitioning to a coaching change and a future of John Dorsey with a top-ten pick and far less holes to fill.

 
Steelers week is always bad news for CLE HCs on the hot seat.  I don't see how CLE beats PITT this week, so Hue has to be sweating his position right now.

Yes it's only mid-season, but I believe a bad loss to PITT will seal the deal, and we'll have an interim HC by Monday AM (if not Sunday evening).  Everything I've heard is that Hue is on a short leash after the TB loss.  He had his supporters, but they have begun to re-assess their loyalties given where this team should be right now.  There is trouble brewing in Berea with "miscommunication" and blaming occurring in the coaching staff.  The worst part of all of this is what it may be doing to Baker.  Too many negative experiences may lead to a little regression in his NFL growth.  My hope is that this is being recognized by Dorsey, and he is doing everything in his power to right the ship and keep Baker moving in the right direction.

My best guess is Haley moves to Interim HC as I think this is Dorsey's guy right now.  Hue didn't bring Haley in, which is what is causing some of the tension in the coaching ranks.  

I'm hoping Dorsey makes a move or two before the trade deadline to help bolster the team, as well as entice potential HC candidates for the off-season.  Bring in Conley to play opposite Ward (3rd rnd pick?) and maybe a WR like Sanu (5th rnd pick?) - we have the surplus to use and both would be under contract for a couple more years. 

Have to think this next week will be big for the franchise.  If not, then we're back to looking at that early round pick again and struggling to find answers over the off season yet again.  Dorsey and team need to keep things moving forward through this mess.

 


Bracie Smathers said:
This week we're  7 1/2 point dogs, playing on the road in Pittsburgh coming off our 4th OT game and Pittsburgh is rested coming off a bye.  

Next week we have KC and don't have any layups the rest of the year.  We're looking at 2-6-1 in two weeks.  If the draft were held today we'd be picking 7th.

Slump puts Browns back in dreaded draft watch

Mayfield keeps us in every game but even Peyton Manning struggled his first season (3-13).

We've got the QB,  pass rusher(s), RBs, slot WR, TE, CBs, LBs, DT, Ss, OGs, C, P, and possibly even have a punt returner.

We don't have tons of holes on the team. 

We are looking at 2-6-1 in two weeks.  The bright side is we're transitioning to a coaching change and a future of John Dorsey with a top-ten pick and far less holes to fill.
Click to expand...
^ are you referring to the guy who fumbled the game away last week?  2 mins left...

and why not throw zona a 2nd and 3rd for Peterson?  no cap space?  imagine this D with him and ward on the corners.  ala dixon and minnifield back in the day.

I just don't believe Hue has IT.  And he aint gonna find IT anytime soon.  Time to move on........

 
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Peak said:
There is trouble brewing in Berea with "miscommunication" and blaming occurring in the coaching staff.  The worst part of all of this is what it may be doing to Baker.  Too many negative experiences may lead to a little regression in his NFL growth. 
Click to expand...
Who could have possibly seen that coming.

Peak said:
I'm hoping Dorsey makes a move or two before the trade deadline to help bolster the team, as well as entice potential HC candidates for the off-season.  Bring in Conley to play opposite Ward (3rd rnd pick?) and maybe a WR like Sanu (5th rnd pick?) - we have the surplus to use and both would be under contract for a couple more years. 
Click to expand...
If you can get a reclamation project like Conley for a day 3 pick, sure.  But a 3rd?  Nah.  That's where you're supposed to be drafting starters; not taking shots.  I don't see much point in using a draft pick to acquire a perennially average 29 year old receiver.  We have guys that can catch the ball.  They just don't play receiver so our idiot coaching staff doesn't know how to use them because they don't fit the system.

 
thecardiackid said:
^ are you referring to the guy who fumbled the game away last week?  2 mins left...

and why not throw zona a 2nd and 3rd for Peterson?  no cap space?  imagine this D with him and ward on the corners.  ala dixon and minnifield back in the day.

I just don't believe Hue has IT.  And he aint gonna find IT anytime soon.  Time to move on........
Click to expand...
We're not in the sorta window to consider going all-in on a profile like Peterson.  That's what teams trying to win now should be doing.  Maybe that'll be us next year, but it isn't now.

 
MAC_32 said:
We're not in the sorta window to consider going all-in on a profile like Peterson.  That's what teams trying to win now should be doing.  Maybe that'll be us next year, but it isn't now.
Click to expand...
Spoken like a true browns fan.

OK, maybe Peterson doesn't work cost or cap wise.  I want to see Dorsey send every damn person in Berea a distinct message that this #### is over. 

Make a trade or two.  God forbid we get better sooner than later.

And why no talk of Williams taking over vs. Haley?  He has more of a HC demeanor imo.  Hue is gone.

 
thecardiackid said:
Spoken like a true browns fan.

OK, maybe Peterson doesn't work cost or cap wise.  I want to see Dorsey send every damn person in Berea a distinct message that this #### is over. 

Make a trade or two.  God forbid we get better sooner than later.

And why no talk of Williams taking over vs. Haley?  He has more of a HC demeanor imo.  Hue is gone.
Click to expand...
Neither of them do - there's good reason their first stints went so poorly.

I'm not against trading, but it has to make sense.  We're not gonna win this year.  That's been the case since December 2017 when Jimmy said Hue would be back.  It's too late to do anything about it now.  Any move must be made with week 1 2019 in mind.

 
here’s an idea, after seeing the early returns on Dorsey’s first draft: why don’t they just build through the draft like the good teams do it?

 
Peak said:
And right on time....Yet no apology....only that they "recognize" the hit should have been a penalty.  When is the NFL going to start holding their refs accountable for these kinds of mistakes?

NFL Aware helmet to helmet hit on BM should have been a penalty
Click to expand...
For that call, that ref should be suspended 4 games. I'd go harsher personally but I'm a fan of the team so that's clouding my judgement.

It got mentioned on the radio earlier this week and I thought it was an interesting conversation, what if 2019 has always been the target? Your team is starting to come together with young talent in 2018 but I think we all agree that we're not there yet in some key positions and our depth is non-existent. Dorsey is piling up draft picks, albeit in the lower rounds which means fodder to try and move up to me. Guess we'll see but I wouldn't be opposed to using some draft capital to bring in some talent i.e. Peterson.

I think we're ####ed for WR this season unless Dorsey can pull a rabbit out of his hat.

 
amnesiac said:
here’s an idea, after seeing the early returns on Dorsey’s first draft: why don’t they just build through the draft like the good teams do it?
Click to expand...
Ok, I'm impatient.  But this division isn't what it used to be, and I bet 8-8 will win it. 

And if any team in the AFC N is on the proverbial rise, its CLE.  Beat BAL, PIT will "rebuild" when Ben finally decides to start his porn career.

4 OT games outa 7?  Good coaches win more close games than they lose.  It's no secret.  Love that we're competitive / relevant / etc.  Dorsey needs to make a statement.  I hate the alleged discontent in the coaching staff.  It looks unprofessional. 

Finally I'm more worried about how this whole mess is slowing baker's nfl development.  God forbid we draft a qb with the first pick and have a coach like Peyton or McCarthy in place.

I want to see us active before the deadline.

I will back off if Huecifer can get us a dub on the road this week. 

 
Baker speaking out on Hue's "stepping in" on offense:  "We don't need to reinvent the wheel"

BEREA, Ohio -- Baker Mayfield doesn't think Hue Jackson needs to step in and overhaul Todd Haley's struggling Browns offense.

"I think a lot of things are said postgame emotionally, but I think the thing around here is that we don't have to re-invent the wheel,'' said Mayfield. "We need to perfect our craft. You look at the good teams around the league, they work hard at what they do and they become good at it. We have what we have.

"We don't need to try and change too much. We just need to get better at what we're doing. There's no secret recipe for success besides working your ### off for what you have."
Click to expand...

 
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