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Cleveland Browns (11 Viewers)

ghostguy123 said:
Team totally quit today on both sides of the ball.  Fire Hue today.  See how it goes, fire Haley if they keep sucking on offense.  Then fire Williams if they keep sucking on defense.  

Bernie Kosar should have a lifetime gig of running the team during the latter part of the season if coaches get fired.
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Williams is infuriating and he continues to get a pass because the other side of the ball (and special teams) are just that much worse.  The defense played their ### off yesterday, creating two turnovers only to look up in the 3rd quarter and see themselves losing 14-6.  You don't get credit for narrow misses, but that Randall play on the AB TD at the end of the half...man, what could have been.  

But I think saying that unit quit is unfair to them.  They're exhausted.  Williams won't rotate guys in and the offense cannot sustain drives long enough to give them a a) break and b) belief they can win.  I'm hesitating to jump the gun and see what shakes out from film today, but the only one that looked like he was playing half assed yesterday was (again) Jamie Collins.  He guesses right 2 or 3 times per game then just floats around the rest of the time, sometimes getting to the play right as someone else is several yards down field after he missed his assignment.  Only so much you can see from the sideline angle, but that's what it looked like and we are well beyond a pattern at this point, so I'd be surprised if it isn't the case.  Trade him back to New England, wash our hands of him, then hopefully get Schobert back after the bye at or near 100%.  The next 2 weeks run primarily nickel and dime, put one of those end of the roster bigger guys in there on run downs, and I beg of you rotate your ####### linemen!

Also wouldn't say the offense quit either.  The line couldn't block and we (shockingly) didn't adjust.  I guess if by quit you mean they knew they couldn't win doing what they were doing then I'd agree with that.  You could tell in their body language as the game went on.  When they did quick game and ran the ball good things happened, when they weren't being penalized anyway.  Anytime trying to go down field though?  Drive, over.  Run for your life, Baker - if you can make a play, great.  If not then try to get rid of the ball.  And don't die while you're at it.  Because our offense goes through our receivers.  We haven't had any receivers since Hue got here, but dammit - that's who our system goes through so that's what we run.

 
Browns are +11 in turnover margin with a 2-5-1 record thru 8 weeks.

Since 2006: 38 teams w +8 turnover margin or better thru 8 wks, none had a losing record...

Since 1975: 71 teams w +11 turnover margin or better thru 8 wks, none had a losing record...

except the 2018 Browns.
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Ugh....This is utterly ridiculous.  A lot of talent on that defense, and yet incompetency in how to manage or win a game.  I don't care if you're the HC, the OC, or the waterboy - this doesn't look good on anyone related to the offense.

 
MAC_32 said:
Your solution to cancer removal is to let the patient die.
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Your solution is to spread cancer to the next HC victim before he's hired by creating the perfect carcinogenic environment where we just fire guys to fulfill fan blood lust without thinking about the consequences. 

What sort of HC candidate do you want?  What sort of OC do you want?  

Fire the HC and OC even before the BYE or during the season and look in the mirror and tell yourself that firing the HC and OC would help when a qualified HC and OC would be available because right now any HC or OC worth their salt is NOT available but they sure would know and are calculating which jobs are going to be available and where they want to work.

 
MAC_32 said:
The line couldn't block and we (shockingly) didn't adjust. 
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How many times does the OC see an unblocked LB line up on the LOS without bothering to put a TE or RB or HB or ANYONE to slow him the F down?  

Baker can't fabricate non-existent blockers into empty sets and Haley kept going with empty sets because his rookie RB can't pass protect so instead of using Duke Johnson or get a legit blocking HB who can catch or use a TE to chip or even think outside the box and bring in an extra O-Lineman and go max protect he rang the dinner bell and threw fresh blood on our rookie franchise QB and set 'come and get it'.  

He's killing Baker Mayfield at this point.

Haley is the first to go IMHO.

 
The front office and whoever has input from the coaching staff completely whiffed on the offensive tackle positions.  I'm not saying Harrison won't be good someday, he's just not NFL good right now, not close.  Been making huge mistakes in almost every game this season costing the offense some big plays or putting them in holes, and play to play he's erratic.  Didn't care as much when Baker was on the sidelines.  They also are not helping him out, but you shouldn't have to help your starting tackle on seemingly every play.

Hubbard and his 8M per on the other side isn't helping out much either.  

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Your solution is to spread cancer to the next HC victim before he's hired by creating the perfect carcinogenic environment where we just fire guys to fulfill fan blood lust without thinking about the consequences. 

What sort of HC candidate do you want?  What sort of OC do you want?  

Fire the HC and OC even before the BYE or during the season and look in the mirror and tell yourself that firing the HC and OC would help when a qualified HC and OC would be available because right now any HC or OC worth their salt is NOT available but they sure would know and are calculating which jobs are going to be available and where they want to work.
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I'd be all for the Bud Kilmer treatment.  For the 97th time - this season was sunk in December 2017.  And the longer you keep the guy around that spends more time and energy crafting stories blaming others than actually coaching football the worse off it'll be for everyone in that building.  We will never get better as long as that infection is in charge.  We will continue to get worse.

 
MAC_32 said:
I'd be all for the Bud Kilmer treatment.  For the 97th time - this season was sunk in December 2017.  And the longer you keep the guy around that spends more time and energy crafting stories blaming others than actually coaching football the worse off it'll be for everyone in that building.  We will never get better as long as that infection is in charge.  We will continue to get worse.
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All of that happyhorse#### and stories are forgotten once you make the hire.  The lead up is always forgotten, it doesn't matter other than to the idiots who listen to sports radio morons who have to fill air time.  No one cares about hot air once it is exhausted and the Cleveland airwaves are always full  of hot air.

The most important thing is developing Baker and getting the right guy(s).  Haley has one job and that is develop Baker Mayfield and he's doing a terrible job of his lone job responsibility.

 
Bobcat10 said:
The front office and whoever has input from the coaching staff completely whiffed on the offensive tackle positions.  I'm not saying Harrison won't be good someday, he's just not NFL good right now, not close.  Been making huge mistakes in almost every game this season costing the offense some big plays or putting them in holes, and play to play he's erratic.  Didn't care as much when Baker was on the sidelines.  They also are not helping him out, but you shouldn't have to help your starting tackle on seemingly every play.

Hubbard and his 8M per on the other side isn't helping out much either.  
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The problem is there were literally no alternatives this offseason.  Nate Solder got handed a boat load of money out of need and because the best available option behind him was arguably Hubbard.  Solder's continued to play extremely mediocre ball on a terrible team that can't protect their awful quarterback.  The draft class was also bad and has lived up to its reputation.  The only one that's played reasonably well was the 9th overall pick, so the only way we get him is if we bypass Ward, which isn't a solution.

I think the front office did the right thing ignoring offensive tackle this past offseason.  There weren't any, so devote your resources elsewhere instead of forcing what's not there, knowing it's likely a priority next offseason.  The coaching staff took what they were given and botched it up though - not committing to an alignment until literally days before week 1 and that alignment wasn't one that had been deployed at any point to date.  Then compounding the issue by not scheming extra help when it's clear they're over matched.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
How many times does the OC see an unblocked LB line up on the LOS without bothering to put a TE or RB or HB or ANYONE to slow him the F down?  

Baker can't fabricate non-existent blockers into empty sets and Haley kept going with empty sets because his rookie RB can't pass protect so instead of using Duke Johnson or get a legit blocking HB who can catch or use a TE to chip or even think outside the box and bring in an extra O-Lineman and go max protect he rang the dinner bell and threw fresh blood on our rookie franchise QB and set 'come and get it'.  

He's killing Baker Mayfield at this point.

Haley is the first to go IMHO.
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Dude, that was infuriating. Once...woops, twice...you keep a guy in the backfield. What was it? 5-6 time in the first half? HTF do you not immediately adjust to that?

 
MAC_32 said:
The problem is there were literally no alternatives this offseason.  Nate Solder got handed a boat load of money out of need and because the best available option behind him was arguably Hubbard.  Solder's continued to play extremely mediocre ball on a terrible team that can't protect their awful quarterback.  The draft class was also bad and has lived up to its reputation.  The only one that's played reasonably well was the 9th overall pick, so the only way we get him is if we bypass Ward, which isn't a solution.

I think the front office did the right thing ignoring offensive tackle this past offseason.  There weren't any, so devote your resources elsewhere instead of forcing what's not there, knowing it's likely a priority next offseason.  The coaching staff took what they were given and botched it up though - not committing to an alignment until literally days before week 1 and that alignment wasn't one that had been deployed at any point to date.  Then compounding the issue by not scheming extra help when it's clear they're over matched.
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Hubbard was a gamble that did not pay off.  Harrison game looks like it will eventually pay off but he needs a full offseason to get some lead in his ###.  The kid did not play football and didn't have NFL coaches to drill him or literally get him up to speed/weight that he needs to play his position to his potential.  

We most definitely need a RT but even if we have one the OC has to see when LBers have NO ONE blocking them and make game day adjustments.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
All of that happyhorse#### and stories are forgotten once you make the hire.  The lead up is always forgotten, it doesn't matter other than to the idiots who listen to sports radio morons who have to fill air time.  No one cares about hot air once it is exhausted and the Cleveland airwaves are always full  of hot air.

The most important thing is developing Baker and getting the right guy(s).  Haley has one job and that is develop Baker Mayfield and he's doing a terrible job of his lone job responsibility.
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Mr. Smathers, what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought regarding Hue Jackson's cancer. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Hubbard was a gamble that did not pay off.  Harrison game looks like it will eventually pay off but he needs a full offseason to get some lead in his ###.  The kid did not play football and didn't have NFL coaches to drill him or literally get him up to speed/weight that he needs to play his position to his potential.  

We most definitely need a RT but even if we have one the OC has to see when LBers have NO ONE blocking them and make game day adjustments.
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There were a couple shots yesterday that showed Bitonio right next to him and I thought for a minute it was the TE or the other guard was in the wrong spot. Dude needs to mix in a cheeseburger stat! I know he's a mountain but he looked tiny next to Bitonio.

 
They need to fire all 3, Hue, Haley, and Williams, but I don't think it will help anything to fire them before the end of the season.  No one currently in that organization is going to help Baker in any meaningful way. They need to bring in someone from the outside, and that's just not done mid season.

They need to get someone innovative next year, not some retread that was just fired from another team. Haley is stale and doesn't know when to run or when to pass within the bounds of a game script, he would often have Ben throw bubble screens multiple times in a row when the defenders were stacked outside. Idiotic plays like that were why he got let go (Not renewed, same thing). 

Williams doesn't seem to be doing much better on defense. He seems to attempt to game plan for opponents, but sometimes outsmarts himself with unnecessary complexity. I would probably just clean house, again, and then give the new coach a 5+ year contract. Show that even though they let go the guy that went 0-16 and 1-15 and his staff, they are striving for continuity. 

 
MAC_32 said:
The problem is there were literally no alternatives this offseason.  Nate Solder got handed a boat load of money out of need and because the best available option behind him was arguably Hubbard.  Solder's continued to play extremely mediocre ball on a terrible team that can't protect their awful quarterback.  The draft class was also bad and has lived up to its reputation.  The only one that's played reasonably well was the 9th overall pick, so the only way we get him is if we bypass Ward, which isn't a solution.

I think the front office did the right thing ignoring offensive tackle this past offseason.  There weren't any, so devote your resources elsewhere instead of forcing what's not there, knowing it's likely a priority next offseason.  The coaching staff took what they were given and botched it up though - not committing to an alignment until literally days before week 1 and that alignment wasn't one that had been deployed at any point to date.  Then compounding the issue by not scheming extra help when it's clear they're over matched.
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Just to be clear, I'm not saying they should have drafted a LT instead of Ward.  We wasted the Corbett pick, but you're right they weren't fixing it there either.  

Understand your points, but the FO could have still found a way to bring in a vet on a friendly deal to help hold the fort down while Harrison was groomed and brought along slower.  Coaches, including both of the great offensive minds we pay handsomely, are definitely also to blame for week to week scheming or lack thereof.  Before they announced inactives, didn't we have 5 TE on the active roster?  Almost like it's staring them right in the face and they're clueless.

Side note, I was hoping for a 5 OL + 5 TE set with wildcat Chubb, but we made one of the TE inactive.  

 
Was in a meeting and just heard the news.  Have to say it's a good day.  Intersted in hearing what comes about from the rest of the days conferences.  Finally!!!!  :thumbup:

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Best HC and OC candidates are lining up to play for an org.

So who is going to take this job? 
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Someone who looks at Baker Mayfield, Nick Chubb, Duke Johnson, David Njoku, Jarvis Landry, Joel Bitonio, Kevin Zietler, Myles Garrett, Larry Ogunjobi, Emmanuel Ogbah, Joe Schobert, Christian Kirksey, Denzel Ward, Demarious Randall, Jabrill Peppers, Terrance Mitchell and says to themselves - I can win with these guys.

 
MAC_32 said:
- I can win with these guys.
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Well they are here the rest of the season and the interim HC will have the benefit of a BYE to rest the D and make changes.

What record do you predict and I don't even know if Haley is still on board at this point.

If the issue was just Hue then what do you predict the record to be by the end of the year?  I mean you can't possibly think it will be the same.

 
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thecardiackid said:
Saunders interim HC

Too bad Hue didn't take Haley with him..
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Happy to read this - and it wouldn't surprise me if this is coming with a 2 weeks or else ultimatum.  Because by then we should know how much of this has been on Haley and how much on Hue.  I don't have high hopes, but you cannot identify what else ails you until you rid yourself of the main source.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Well they are here the rest of the season and the interim HC will have the benefit of a BYE to rest the D and make changes.

What record do you predict and I don't even know if Haley is still on board at this point.
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I don't do record predictions - it's a week-to-week league.  I expected a failed season - the extent of my goals were to come out of it with a QB of the future and reason to believe in whatever coaching staff is brought in after this house of cards inevitably crumbled.  I may have written exactly that sometime in the offseason too.

 
MAC_32 said:
I don't do record predictions - it's a week-to-week league.  I expected a failed season - the extent of my goals were to come out of it with a QB of the future and reason to believe in whatever coaching staff is brought in after this house of cards inevitably crumbled.  I may have written exactly that sometime in the offseason too.
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You have been saying the problem is Hue and you can win with the guys on the roster so you can't back up on your own statements.  

Are we going to see an improvement over the final games or not and if not how is it possible if Hue was the problem and you could win with the guys on the roster?

 
Bracie Smathers said:
You have been saying the problem is Hue and you can win with the guys on the roster so you can't back up on your own statements.  

Are we going to see an improvement over the final games or not and if not how is it possible if Hue was the problem and you could win with the guys on the roster?
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You can try to back me into a corner but it isn't going to work, Smithers.

 
Probably the biggest victory the Browns will have this year. Rumor was Haslam STILL wanted to keep Hue but let Dorsey decide. I suggested the whole of the major coaching positions should be let go (Hue, Haley, Williams) and Saunders made HC in the game thread. Probably a little unforunate Haley and Williams are still there but that may have been hard to do to a 71 y/o man in only his second HC gig.

 
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm fine with the coordinators staying on board right now.  I think Dorsey did exactly what he was supposed to do.  I didn't know how strong of an option Saunders was to finish out the season, but I don't think Dorsey goes this route unless he's confident there won't be chaos.  

 
MAC_32 said:
I get that I probably come off as a front office apologist, but it's because the coaching has been so horrendous. I see their plan. And I see the coaches using it as toilet paper. 
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Literally dozens of posts I could cite, but this one is clear and concise - brief and to the point.  It's been painfully obvious since October 2017 that this team cannot win with Hue.  How many of the other issues are a function of him or ineptitude elsewhere, I have no idea.  Because from the outside it's impossible to separate what's him and what's not.  Everything he touches turns to liquid poop, so when we see diarrhea who's is it?  I don't know, but it could be Hue's.  You cannot figure out the other problems until you get rid of the problem at the top of the organization and the feces that flows down from there.  I imagine some of those problems will continue and there's lots of reasons to believe your lightning rod is also part of the problem.  And we have two months to unclog this thing and flush away anything else that needs disposed of.

 
Congrats Browns fans. Hopefully there will be a positive change heading into 2019. I imagine plenty of HC hopefuls will see the talent as a solid base. Ownership that stands by Hue for far longer than it should have has to be seen as a positive, too, I'd think.

 
Bracie is Hue, Hue is Bracie, Finkle is Einhorn.

Glad Hue is gone.  Shoulda been gone in the offseason.  I even said numerous times that I can forgive the 1-31 record given the circumstances, but the way he went about it was putrid.  He was a terrible coach and also a horrible leader, horrible decision maker, and blamed everyone else.  

I truly believe this is a very attractive job for aspiring head coaches.  We have talented youth, a probable top 10 (5?) pick coming up, and still a lot of cap room.  That and you can basically go winless for 3 years before being fired.

 
ghostguy123 said:
Hmm, I dont like Haley being fired (yet).  
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I'm trusting Dorsey on this one - Hue's definitely the biggest problem, but he's not the only one.  And there's no defending what's been happening on offense.  How much has who been involved?  We don't know, but he does.

But I find it curious that the moves were 3 hours apart and not all at once, so I wonder if there's more to the story.  Probably not, but it's certainly possible.

 
MAC_32 said:
I'm trusting Dorsey on this one - Hue's definitely the biggest problem, but he's not the only one.  And there's no defending what's been happening on offense.  How much has who been involved?  We don't know, but he does.

But I find it curious that the moves were 3 hours apart and not all at once, so I wonder if there's more to the story.  Probably not, but it's certainly possible.
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Wouldn’t shock me... Todd Haley is a ########.

 
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