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Cleveland Browns (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter wadegarrett
- Start date
beer 30
Footballguy
Not getting up in your business but how old are you? I'm 55 and have followed the Browns since the 70's. In that almost 50 years I've experienced very few seasons that were fun. When Bernie had us going to the AFC Championship game seemingly every year I lived and died with them. When Byner fumbled at the goal line I was literally a reclusive mess for 6 months. I lived in a house full of guys in college that were all cut from the same cloth. It was beyond devastating. Fast forward a few years and the team moved and really did rip our hearts out. After that I just never got that same feeling back I had back in the heyday. The team has been really hard to embrace since they came back, I don't know how to explain it but you all know what I'm talking about and it sounds like you just got there.
Sorry to hear another fan got stomped on by the team we all love, it's a bummer and I hate to see it. This team has a following like no other. You saw just a glimpse of what could happen if this team ever got their #### together at the end of last year and the beginning of this season. The fans are rabid for a winner, I just question if the team ever is.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Kitchens Lacks Commitment to an Offensive Identity
FWIW I am not Pete Smith and disagree with him on many points but he'd spot-on noting the use/misuse of the running game and how we should establish the run to open up the passing game and that with all of the talent and with the NFL rushing leader we lack an offensive identity.
Peak
Footballguy
No worries....43 here. Most of my "good ol days" was in the late 80s, early 90s. I have an old VHS recording of their last playoff win vs NE back in 1994. It's buried somewhere, but I remember watching it multiple times when they were "gone". I grew up on Martyball. My parents were Steelers fans, and being rebellious went straight for Cleveland and never looked back. I remember the move and how it felt, and then the celebration when they came back. I remember being pissed about drafting Couch, and how those first few years covered no ground. I remained optimistic since the return, hoping to show my own kids what it was like to be a fan of this team in the mid/late 80s. They don't see it. They've never known it. I kept saying "next year is our year" so much, it's a running joke. The optimism has been beaten out of me. It's become wash, rinse, repeat over the last decade. I had hope Dorsey and Baker would start a new revolution in Cleveland. But I'm not seeing it right now. My wife called me the eternal optimist. But I ain't feeling it anymore man....
beer 30
Footballguy
I mentioned this a few weeks ago when I was going off on the run game. If you solely look at the stats you'd think hey, the RB's are getting theirs, what's the beef? But it's so much amount of touches as the incongruity of them. RB's, when they are getting warmed up, need continuous touches to keep that momentum going. Ezekial Elliot is a great example, Hunt when he was at KC and now Chubb here, you keep feeding them the ball and mix in play action to give them a breather. Point is it is a consistent helping of run left, run right, run middle, play action, lather, rinse, repeat.
We don't do that. There are very few series let a lone drives that I can think of this season where they have been run heavy, think opening series of second half against the Bengals. Despite that, Chubb makes the most of every touch he gets and eventually breaks a long one in spite of our reluctance to just run the damn ball. It's not hard, run it until they stop it and with Chubb & Hunt AND the fact that everyone knows we are not going to do that, it should be an easy game plan to implement. When they start stopping the run, go play action then go back to the run and crush their will.
amnesiac
beer is good
daveR
Footballguy
I came away from that game thinking that Patrick Peterson definitely watched enough film to know that the ball is thrown after the first cut. Baker knows what he's going to do & so do the defenders.
daveR
Footballguy
In that regard, I think it's important to include down & distance -- there were series where 1st & 10 turned into 2nd & 9. Be that as it may, in this league, points come from passing, from chunk plays. IMO, if your run/pass ratio is 2:1 or more, you won't score enough. 50/50 is the farthest I would go personally.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
There was another important play this week, I believe 3rd and 2, and guess who was not on the field? You don't have to answer. This is a recurring, not an isolated, instance.
daveR
Footballguy
daveR
Footballguy
There were 2 3rd & 2's. Maybe it was a different down or something. First time they ran that shovel pass to Landry. Second was late in the 4th Qtr.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
Bobcat10
Footballguy
beer 30
Footballguy
Ha, no ####, they defended 0-16
See? SEE?!?!? That ####### shovel pass EVERY.GOT.DAMN.GAME!!! If I have to point to one thing that defines the Kitchen's era it will be that God forsaken shovel pass. How the hell do we run that play every week? What film are they watching that points to that play being successful such that it makes the game plan? You think when they call that play in practice it goes for a 80 yard TD every time? It has too, only way I can think they look at that play and say "yep, that's the one that's gonna win us the game." GTFO with that ####### play. Should fire the entire offensive staff for letting that happen. Somebody take the shovel pass away from Freddie, I'm pleading with you!!!!
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Running to set-up the pass is proven in our offense with our personnel. The passing attack has not been effective.
We've gone this road to the point of play-by-play to show how going away from the running game has failed but to fix the offense its been suggested by many that we should use the running game to set up the pass.
Do you have an issue with that simple philosophy because I don't have any interest in trying to win an argument just for the sake of arguing.
We lack an offensive identity. We have a strong running game. Use the running game to set up the pass.
Peak
Footballguy
Peak
Footballguy
Agree with Bracie completely. With the league's leading rusher on a team that has not locked in and embraced their identity as a Run First team is beyond confusing. Chubb did all of this even with his coaches abandoning the run for quarters, if not halves, of games. Why continue to draw up trick passing plays when you have two backs who can get you an avg of 5yds/carry everytime they touch the ball? It really shouldn't be this hard.
MAC_32
Footballguy
WAT.
Comparing to prior seasons is a never ending circle game anyway. Just like the new stupid talking point I keep hearing with Freddie vs. Hue. Who's worse...who cares. Are they the answer? No other question matters after that one. If that answer is no then the response is simple. If that answer is 'yes,' 'maybe,' or some other iteration along those lines then the next wall of questions all center around THEN WHAT THE #### IS HAPPENING.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
beer 30
Footballguy
Guaranteed you'll see it twice on Sunday. Settle in and just wait for it.
I know...I KNOW!!!!!
beer 30
Footballguy
This guy is 92.3 The Fan RIGHT NOW!!!!
Pretty much re-iterated everything Bracie quoted above. Biggest revelation was he was on the Bachelor.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Procedural move to get Drew Forbes on the roster so they could IR him. They did not expose Robinson to waivers but did release him and re-signed him to a one-year deal so Dorsey made two moves to help the team. You'd have to go rule book for the specifics but 'technically' he wasn't subject to waivers.
They could have pointed to the healthy scratch or the time share at both tackle positions to make the same point but the release of Robinson made headlines and more than a few eyebrows were raised. We know he's not coming back and we're long overdue for an upgrade.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Right, I hesitated hitting submit reply because it's semantics - I think I was more taken aback that pff screwed that up.
Shovel pass where the WR runs east west instead of up the field? If so, yeah, dumbest of dumb plays.
No mention of Monken so this guy doesn't have much of a clue since Monken is problem #1. Wan to know why play action isn't working? because every damn WR is running 20 yard routes.
beer 30
Footballguy
I'm trying to think of one of those plays where the WR had the opportunity to run North-South, I can't think of one instance when the play wasn't blown up by the time the WR touched the ball.
MAC_32
Footballguy
It isn't due to the play, itself. The play works. It's why so many in the league do it. It doesn't work on this offense. I know one of the reasons is whenever it's called a block is missed. But I think it may be more than that. I think the defense may know it's coming.
beer 30
Footballguy
I think you're spot on. We've heard multiple teams say they know what's coming when it comes tot he Browns offense. For as much as they've run the play, you would think at least once it would have paid off in a big gain and it hasn't. Missing blocks certainly shuts this slow as dog #### play down before it ever gets started but are they missing the block because the DL or LB has a jump on the ball because they know where it's going? Probably a good bet.
#justsaynototheshovelpass
Peak
Footballguy
But that's just when you catch the defense off-guard! They've seen you run the play for no result multiple times this season. They see you line up in that formation. They're thinking, "Surely they aren't going to do this again?!" But lo and behold, WHOOMP there it is! In all of its negative yardage glory! It's like Freddie is banking on the Defense to 2nd guess that they are going to run this disastrous play yet again on a 3rd and long situation. Hoping beyond hope the DL or LB doesn't jump the ball this one time. Praying for a solid block and a slight glimmer of a hole to appear for Landry to gain his confidence to run North/South instead of his panic-ridden East/West.
It's bound to happen, he says assuredly. Then they will see my genius at work!
#maketheshovelpassgreatagain
amnesiac
beer is good
from Pluto’s article this morning:
”14. I’d be surprised if they fired him with a 9-7 record. But I’d be even more surprised if the Browns managed to win the last two games of the season. I’ve lost faith in this team.”
I’d sign Kitchens to a long term contract if he could get to 9-7 at this point!!
what does Pluto think the Browns record is? talk about phoning it in...
”14. I’d be surprised if they fired him with a 9-7 record. But I’d be even more surprised if the Browns managed to win the last two games of the season. I’ve lost faith in this team.”
I’d sign Kitchens to a long term contract if he could get to 9-7 at this point!!
what does Pluto think the Browns record is? talk about phoning it in...
amnesiac
beer is good
I see monken's feeling the heat as he's blaming others for his incompetence.
'Can't line up properly? really? that's what you are going with? Clown.
if you’re not getting lined up and you do not know what you’re doing, it doesn’t matter who you play - fits you like a glove, loser.
'Can't line up properly? really? that's what you are going with? Clown.
if you’re not getting lined up and you do not know what you’re doing, it doesn’t matter who you play - fits you like a glove, loser.
The_Man
Footballguy
Careful - you might make a Lamar fan out of him.
Enjoy! Nothing better than going to a game with your dad (except for being the dad taking his kid)
amnesiac
beer is good
lol, he’s converted from being a Gronkowski/Patriots fan to a Browns fan this year. i think we’ll be OK.
Good luck throwing the snowballs at Monken. Call out his name first so he turns your way when you throw it. A shot to his face would be appreciated.
amnesiac
beer is good
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
End of First Half Against Ravens May Spell End of Freddie Kitchens
We could not keep their D-Line from blowing up our O-Line as we saw with yet another failed bubble-screen play where Greg Robinson was a day late trying to get in front of the defender who had Landry wrapped up before he had a chance, or on the short yardage play where Chubb had, not one, not two, not three, but FOUR defenders on him.
I'm not going to blame the LBers who had to deal with a D-Line that has been terrible since Myles and Olivier have been out or the safeties who are depleted and have rookies who don't know assignments.
I'm not going to blame Baker who IS under pressure and rarely gets the sort of clean pockets that Lamar had.
I'm not going to rip the kicker for missing his fourth extra point or the plethora of dumb penalties.
I won't blame one terrible call because we were going to lose this game.
The three cornerstones of any NFL teams are:
FWIW I don't that even if we ran a different play and got that first down and clung to the lead or scored before the half that we could keep the Baltimore rushing attack at bay.
We could not keep their D-Line from blowing up our O-Line as we saw with yet another failed bubble-screen play where Greg Robinson was a day late trying to get in front of the defender who had Landry wrapped up before he had a chance, or on the short yardage play where Chubb had, not one, not two, not three, but FOUR defenders on him.
I'm not going to blame the LBers who had to deal with a D-Line that has been terrible since Myles and Olivier have been out or the safeties who are depleted and have rookies who don't know assignments.
I'm not going to blame Baker who IS under pressure and rarely gets the sort of clean pockets that Lamar had.
I'm not going to rip the kicker for missing his fourth extra point or the plethora of dumb penalties.
I won't blame one terrible call because we were going to lose this game.
- We can fix the bad O-line
- We will get Myles and Olivier back and we can expect a healthy OBJ and better WR play
- Better protection and WRs who are healthy will provide a positive edge to make Baker and Chubb better
- We can get upgrade our safeties.
The three cornerstones of any NFL teams are:
- Franchise QB
- Blind side protector
- Pass rusher
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Not sure I would put a checkmark next to the franchise QB label yet. Mayfield has taken a major step backwards this year (his regression has a lot more to do with just the o-line), and the jury is still out on him.
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amnesiac
beer is good
you can spin it however you want.End of First Half Against Ravens May Spell End of Freddie Kitchens
FWIW I don't that even if we ran a different play and got that first down and clung to the lead or scored before the half that we could keep the Baltimore rushing attack at bay.
We could not keep their D-Line from blowing up our O-Line as we saw with yet another failed bubble-screen play where Greg Robinson was a day late trying to get in front of the defender who had Landry wrapped up before he had a chance, or on the short yardage play where Chubb had, not one, not two, not three, but FOUR defenders on him.
I'm not going to blame the LBers who had to deal with a D-Line that has been terrible since Myles and Olivier have been out or the safeties who are depleted and have rookies who don't know assignments.
I'm not going to blame Baker who IS under pressure and rarely gets the sort of clean pockets that Lamar had.
I'm not going to rip the kicker for missing his fourth extra point or the plethora of dumb penalties.
I won't blame one terrible call because we were going to lose this game.
The thing I am not sure of is if we can we expect better play calling or can we assume leadership?
- We can fix the bad O-line
- We will get Myles and Olivier back and we can expect a healthy OBJ and better WR play
- Better protection and WRs who are healthy will provide a positive edge to make Baker and Chubb better
- We can get upgrade our safeties.
The three cornerstones of any NFL teams are:
We've got two of the three and I expect we will get our blind side protector next year. I think we can fix the other talent issues but we've seen a pattern of questionable calls and spotty leadership.
- Franchise QB
- Blind side protector
- Pass rusher
terrible play call. inexcusable.
i was at the game. everyone was disgusted.
amnesiac
beer is good
fair enough. this year has been awful.
i still believe there is a very good chance he can develop into a franchise QB.
but he needs to bounce back next year and prove it.
I think you were on TV. The guy screaming eff you repeatedly and giving the finger to Kitchens after one of his stupid plays failed miserably.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
What?
You think I'm giving Freddie a spin job? Look again. The play didn't cost us the game. It is an indictment, a cherry on top of questionable calls.
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Brent Sobleski @brentsobleski
That's coming from someone who thought Kitchens earned the job. I was wrong. The continued lack of discipline, awful game-planning & inability to get the locker room on the same page were manifestations of a festering situation. Culture first. Don't worry about Xs & Os.
1:02 PM - 22 Dec 2019
#1. qualified OC that has genuine NFL plays as opposed to a bunch of trick BS that is pee wee football level stupid.
#2 fix the OL. Jackson plays behind arguably the best OL in the NFL and it shows. These idiots traded away an OL man. The OL is #1. If you dont have it, you are not winning anything.
