amnesiac
beer is good
OK.
it did not cost the game, but was part of the bigger picture. sorry if i didn’t get the gist of what you were saying.
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Cleveland Browns (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter wadegarrett
- Start date
it did not cost the game, but was part of the bigger picture. sorry if i didn’t get the gist of what you were saying.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Pete Smith seems to get the Kubiak fit for this team.
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Pete Smith @_PeteSmith_
The zone stretch combined with the naked boot stuff seems like a great fit for Mayfield to me. Love that inside wide zone they run Again, it's about the HC part first though.
John Galt @JohnGal71212636
I’d absolutely consider Kubiak. None of the rest excite me. I was more turned off when I read the the staff that McCarthy had planned.
3:48 PM - 22 Dec 2019
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Kubiak has AFCN coaching experience/knowledge as he was with Baltimore.
Speaking of Baltimore, their OC is going to be an NFL HC next year and he is another 'interesting' name to consider but Kubiak makes a lot of sense.
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Pete Smith @_PeteSmith_
The zone stretch combined with the naked boot stuff seems like a great fit for Mayfield to me. Love that inside wide zone they run Again, it's about the HC part first though.
John Galt @JohnGal71212636
I’d absolutely consider Kubiak. None of the rest excite me. I was more turned off when I read the the staff that McCarthy had planned.
3:48 PM - 22 Dec 2019
-------------------------------------
Kubiak has AFCN coaching experience/knowledge as he was with Baltimore.
Speaking of Baltimore, their OC is going to be an NFL HC next year and he is another 'interesting' name to consider but Kubiak makes a lot of sense.
beer 30
Footballguy
Meh...about all I got left for this team. Thanks for another fun season on the forums guys, always a pleasure. Tuning out next week because I care less than the players at this point and I’m tired of wasting my time on this nonsense. Stupid penalties, stupid play calls, week 15 still can’t get lined up properly, players jawing at coaches...again, not running the ball with the best RB in the league, just had enough of it.
Only saving grace was no shovel pass...they opted for the halfback option pass on 3rd & 1 this week
Only saving grace was no shovel pass...they opted for the halfback option pass on 3rd & 1 this week
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Peak
Footballguy
Welcome to the darkside my friend. It only took one more game for you to get where I was last week. I spent the afternoon yesterday hanging up the remaining Xmas lights and picking up dog-poo in the yard. A little more satisfying than watching that spectacle of a game yesterday.Meh...about all I got left for this team. Thanks for another fun season on the forums guys, always a pleasure. Tuning out next week because I care less than the players at this point and I’m tired of wasting my time on this nonsense. Stupid penalties, stupid play calls, week 15 still can’t get lined up properly, players jawing at coaches...again, not running the ball with the best RB in the league, just had enough of it.
Only saving grace was no shovel pass...they opted for the halfback option pass on 3rd & 1 this week
MAC_32
Footballguy
That end of half sequence could only really be fully appreciated watching it happen in its full incompetent glory. My season ended at 14-6, anyone who toughed it out beyond that - cheers
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Saw the Browns were making a rare appearance on TV here thanks to HOU playing yesterday and Dallas being the later game. Being the holiday season, I gave myself an early gift and turned on the PS4 instead. Another good (and let's face it, easy) choice. That being said, I have seen numerous articles already roasting Kitchens for whatever the end of half debacle was. Enough to make everyone realize a change in needed, that he simply isn't qualified yet to be a head coach?
beer 30
Footballguy
The written word doesn't quite do it justice but it does provide a backdrop for the discussion if some of you missed it. It's a very nice microcosm of the 2019 season.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=401127904
CLE - Punt 6 plays, 17 yards, 3:08
BAL 0 CLE 6
1st & 10 at CLE 3
(4:58 - 2nd) B.Mayfield pass incomplete deep right to O.Beckham (M.Peters).
2nd & 10 at CLE 3
(4:52 - 2nd) N.Chubb right guard to CLV 7 for 4 yards (C.Wormley).
3rd & 6 at CLE 7
(4:05 - 2nd) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short right to J.Landry to CLV 19 for 12 yards (M.Peters).
1st & 10 at CLE 19
(3:31 - 2nd) (Shotgun) N.Chubb left tackle to CLV 24 for 5 yards (C.Wormley).
2nd & 5 at CLE 24
(2:51 - 2nd) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short right to D.Hilliard to CLV 28 for 4 yards (M.Peters). CLV-D.Hilliard was injured during the play. His return is Questionable. BLT-M.Peters was injured during the play. His return is Probable.
3rd & 1 at CLE 28
(2:09 - 2nd) K.Hunt right end to CLV 20 for -8 yards (E.Thomas III; J.Ferguson). 67 McCray Eligible
(2:00 - 2nd) Two-Minute Warning
4th & 9 at CLE 20
(2:00 - 2nd) J.Gillan punts 50 yards to BLT 30, Center-C.Hughlett. D.Thomas ran ob at BLT 37 for 7 yards (E.Murray).
BAL - Touchdown 2 plays, 63 yards, 0:32
BAL 7 CLE 6
1st & 10 at BAL 37
(1:50 - 2nd) (Shotgun) L.Jackson pass deep middle to M.Ingram II to CLV 39 for 24 yards (M.Wilson).
1st & 10 at CLE 39
(1:18 - 2nd) Mark Andrews Pass From Lamar Jackson for 39 Yrds J.Tucker extra point is GOOD, Center-M.Cox, Holder-S.Koch.
CLE - Punt 3 plays, 0 yards, 0:23
BAL 7 CLE 6
(1:18 - 2nd) J.Tucker kicks 65 yards from BLT 35 to end zone, Touchback.
1st & 10 at CLE 25
(1:18 - 2nd) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass incomplete deep right to D.Ratley.
2nd & 10 at CLE 25
(1:10 - 2nd) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass incomplete short right to J.Landry (C.Clark).
3rd & 10 at CLE 25
(1:07 - 2nd) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass incomplete short right (C.Clark).
4th & 10 at CLE 25
(1:02 - 2nd) J.Gillan punts 50 yards to BLT 25, Center-C.Hughlett, fair catch by D.Thomas.
BAL - Touchdown 7 plays, 75 yards, 0:46
BAL 14 CLE 6
1st & 10 at BAL 25
(1:02 - 2nd) (Shotgun) L.Jackson pass short middle to M.Andrews to BLT 49 for 24 yards (S.Redwine).
1st & 10 at BAL 49
(0:36 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) L.Jackson pass incomplete short middle to W.Snead IV (M.Wilson).
2nd & 10 at BAL 49
(0:32 - 2nd) (Shotgun) L.Jackson pass short right to J.Hill to CLV 37 for 14 yards (D.Ward).
1st & 10 at CLE 37
(0:26 - 2nd) (Shotgun) L.Jackson pass short right to S.Roberts to CLV 25 for 12 yards (D.Ward).
1st & 10 at CLE 25
(0:22 - 2nd) (Shotgun) L.Jackson pass incomplete short right to J.Hill.
2nd & 10 at CLE 25
(0:19 - 2nd) (Shotgun) L.Jackson pass short left to S.Roberts to CLV 14 for 11 yards.
1st & 10 at CLE 14
(0:09 - 2nd) Mark Andrews Pass From Lamar Jackson for 14 Yrds J.Tucker extra point is GOOD, Center-M.Cox, Holder-S.Koch.
CLE - End of Half 1 play, -1 yard, 0:09
BAL 14 CLE 6
(0:09 - 2nd) J.Tucker kicks 49 yards from BLT 35 to CLV 16. R.Higgins to CLV 24 for 8 yards (J.Richards).
1st & 10 at CLE 24
(0:09 - 2nd) B.Mayfield kneels to CLV 23 for -1 yards.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Needs much more explanation to get context.
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Kitchens armed his critics with more reasons to believe he doesn’t deserve a second season with Cleveland
We had the ball with a 6-0 lead on a 3rd and 1 and he calls for Hunt to PASS THE BALL.
Stole the soul of hope away at that point and the Ravens blew right through a distraught defense that had held the highest scoring and best team in the league to ZERO points. We were the only team in the league to hold the Ravens to zero in a first half all year and Freddie gave it away like a hooker on nickel night.
THEN???
He did it again!
Three passes and gave it to em AGAIN.
EDIT: Go to the 4:20 mark to see the play and the rest >>>> LINK
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DocHolliday
Footballguy
Kitchens is gone. So many poor decisions.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
It's clock mgt and game mgt. It's offensive philosophy/playbook/sequencing. It's getting plays in and lining up timely. It's on-field personnel. It's execution. It's the coach/GM doghouse. It's looking like you haven't practiced a "trick" play since OTAs. It's Monken (for you @lod001). .......
But I do like Freddie, just more as a person. I did see what I thought was lack of effort or giving up during the Cards game last week. From what I saw yesterday, they played hard and inspired for the most part. Not enough in the end. I'd be changing it up next Sunday night.
But I do like Freddie, just more as a person. I did see what I thought was lack of effort or giving up during the Cards game last week. From what I saw yesterday, they played hard and inspired for the most part. Not enough in the end. I'd be changing it up next Sunday night.
MAC_32
Footballguy
In a word - it's culture. There are many other problems associated with this team, but they have all been compounded by poor coaching.
amnesiac
beer is good
“We had a chance to win the game, and we did not make enough plays to win the game. I think we had seven big plays the way we classify big plays against Baltimore in the first game and gave up four. Yesterday, it was flipped. We created three [big plays], and we allowed them to get seven. At the end of the day, that is the difference in the game.”
this is how these guys think. it’s all about “big plays”. you think Belichick thinks like this?
good gravy. they’re too busy dreaming about big plays to do all the little things right and win a damn football game.
this is how these guys think. it’s all about “big plays”. you think Belichick thinks like this?
good gravy. they’re too busy dreaming about big plays to do all the little things right and win a damn football game.
Exactly what I've been saying. This Monken clown is all about big plays and trickery. This is the NFL, THAT DOES NOT WORK. Belichick just chuckles when he sees idiots like this across the field from him. Once again, 3rd & 7 and they ran all the WRs 20+ yards downfield. SACK.
Kitchens latest: “Everybody in this building is pulling toward the same direction, and we’re close in a lot of areas now,’’ Kitchens said during his Monday press conference. “We’re really close.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
- >> Freddie Kitchens admits that he’s still learning how to call plays
- >> "You have a head coach who is also calling the plays and it's a lot; the details get lost because he has so much on his plate."
- >> Freddie Kitchens owns play-calling fails, but will Browns learn from mistakes?
- >> Freddie Kitchens to keep calling plays
- >> Browns coach Freddie Kitchens says he will keep calling plays after questionable decisions
----------------------
NFL playbooks have vertical routes.
Every NFL team has a guy calling plays.
We have a playbook and we have a guy who consistently makes terrible in-game decisions in critical points in the game where he rolls the dice needlessly instead of making high percentage low-risk calls.
The guy calling the plays, making challenges, mismanaging the clock???
You think its Monken?
He's calling the plays but who arrived this year and added this garbage to a team that was playing well last year? Monken. You are not going to see articles about the OC like you are the HC. Freddie stinks but Monken is a bigger problem.Bracie Smathers said:
"trick plays are fun". Yeah a grown man coaching in the NFL said that. Ya know what Belichick would tell a guy who said that to him in NE offices? 'Go clean the toilets, because that's all you're good for'.
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amnesiac
beer is good
MAC_32
Footballguy
Dorsey supposedly arranged the marriage, so if true then he certainly bares a substantial amount of blame.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
When asked about his bad call Freddie said. He was going to go for it on fourth down from his own 28 with less than two minutes on the clock up by 6.
Trick plays are fun when used properly but are reckless if the guy calling the plays doesn't know when to use them.
Freddie has no HC to keep him in check. He is in charge of any play called because HE MAKES THE CALLS.
But you say Monken is the bigger problem because he thinks trick plays are fun.
Trick plays are fun but you make a good argument. Doesn't matter the context or who makes the call, the problem is liking trick plays.
I'm sorry. I won't like trick plays anymore.
Problem solved.
Next year >>>>>
Peak
Footballguy
Well it's about time you owned up to your mistake!I'm sorry. I won't like trick plays anymore.
Problem solved.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Michael LombardiVerified account @mlombardiNFL
Two NFL sources told me last night that they expect more than just a head coaching change in Cleveland. 2020 will be interesting.
5:34 AM - 28 Dec 2019
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Two NFL sources told me last night that they expect more than just a head coaching change in Cleveland. 2020 will be interesting.
5:34 AM - 28 Dec 2019
------------------------------------
amnesiac
beer is good
IF the Browns win today, they will have won 14 games over a two year span.
you have to go back to 2007 (10-6) and 2008 (4-12) to find a two year span with that many wins.
before that you have to go to 2003 (5-11) and 2002 (9-7)
the most successful two year span since “the return of the new Browns” was 2001 (7-9) and 2002 (9-7) for a total of 16 wins.
are they making progress? is everyone ready for another rebuild? is it worth investing another year in the Dorsey/Kitchens experiment to see if they can do better next year?
i’m glad i don’t have to make these decisions.
you have to go back to 2007 (10-6) and 2008 (4-12) to find a two year span with that many wins.
before that you have to go to 2003 (5-11) and 2002 (9-7)
the most successful two year span since “the return of the new Browns” was 2001 (7-9) and 2002 (9-7) for a total of 16 wins.
are they making progress? is everyone ready for another rebuild? is it worth investing another year in the Dorsey/Kitchens experiment to see if they can do better next year?
i’m glad i don’t have to make these decisions.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Read everything, believe nothing, and reserve judgment. It's leak season. There's a reason all of this is coming out and we will find out those reasons over the next few days/weeks. I don't trust this ownership group to get things right when we come out the other side, but maybe they'll get lucky.
amnesiac
beer is good
14 Reasons to watch today’s game
they could really do some stat-padding today.
4-2 would be their best division record in the current format.
they could really do some stat-padding today.
4-2 would be their best division record in the current format.
Dez
Footballguy
The biggest mystery will always be the huge win at Baltimore early in the year making me think this team had a real shot to make the playoffs and then it all fell apart. The clincher was our star DL that lost his mind costing himself the rest of the season and in the process costing us.
Dez
Footballguy
Looks like the Atlanta win didn't mean anything for our pick.
Looks like from best of what I can see is Browns will pick 10th if Denver wins and will pick 11th if Denver loses.
That SOS of .530 they have was the 5th hardest SOS I believe which hurts them when it comes to a better pick since that is tie breaker.
Be nice to have an easier schedule next year.
That .530 SOS can change after today's games but I don't think it can change enough to sway the pick.
Looks like from best of what I can see is Browns will pick 10th if Denver wins and will pick 11th if Denver loses.
That SOS of .530 they have was the 5th hardest SOS I believe which hurts them when it comes to a better pick since that is tie breaker.
Be nice to have an easier schedule next year.
That .530 SOS can change after today's games but I don't think it can change enough to sway the pick.
Dez
Footballguy
Phew was really sweating out that Oakland Denver ending that 2 point miss moves Browns up to #10 pick.
All said and done the Browns would have had pick #15 with a win so losing moved us up from #15 to #10.
At least that is the bright side to the loss today.
Now get a new coach get some offensive lineman.
Make playoffs next year.
All said and done the Browns would have had pick #15 with a win so losing moved us up from #15 to #10.
At least that is the bright side to the loss today.
Now get a new coach get some offensive lineman.
Make playoffs next year.
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Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Kitchens fired
PennStater77
Footballguy
Pretty obvious it was happening, was reported two weeks ago. He lost his team.
Heard that are going after Urban Meyer
Heard that are going after Urban Meyer
shadyridr
Footballguy
Imagine taking over for the worst head coach in the history of football and realizing he lasted more than twice as long as you.
amnesiac
beer is good
Meyer would be a huge mistake.
my guess is they will go with a retread. Rivera, McCarthy, McDaniels.
no way they hire another first year head coach.
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
I thought he had it almost dialed in. IN about 5 more seasons I think he could turn it around.
JK
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Outside of the team I root for there is no other team I want to see do well than the Browns but damn the model they’re following may be the worst in all of sports. How many games did they win just a couple years back? Talent and record have improved but outside expectations rattle them again and around and around they go. It’s a damn shame.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
More like this one >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B6TKClPFQA
Or this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X9E9n6GHC8
-OZ-
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Browns’ head coaches under the Haslams:
2019 Freddie Kitchens
In what business model is this good?
MAC_32
Footballguy
If there is a front office re-allignment then first year coach options may be on the table.
Shutout
Footballguy
With the firing coming so quickly I gotta think they want the jump on going after Lincoln. But seeing how three NFL loves to recycle guys that got fired somewhere else, I wouldn't be surprised if they go after Mike McCartHy.
I had to laugh to see and be reminded that ShurmurWas once the HC here and Shurmur likely gets fired tomorrow.
I had to laugh to see and be reminded that ShurmurWas once the HC here and Shurmur likely gets fired tomorrow.
