Cleveland Browns (3 Viewers)

[Bobcat10]

Browns’ head coaches under the Haslams:

2019 Freddie Kitchens
2018 Gregg Williams
2016-18 Hue Jackson
2014-15 Mike Pettine
2013 Rob Chudzinski
2012 Pat Shurmur (Shurmur was HC in 2011 before Haslams bought the Browns).

In what business model is this good?

There is a lot to unpack here overall because I don’t blame Jimmy for all of it, but I get the point of the post even if it was just made to mock. It’s not a good track record or look. 

Simple as it sounds they need to find the right guy and things will level out. None of the people listed were for various reasons. 

And things can level out very quickly based on the roster, another draft, and looking forward to see the AFC-S, NFC-E, NYJ, and OAK on the schedule next year. 

 

[MAC_32]

looking forward to see the AFC-S, NFC-E, NYJ, and OAK on the schedule next year. 

Yyyyep.

 

[Peak]

Been a busy lunch break for HC interview requests.

Already noted: McDaniels, Roman

New additions to the list: Saleh (SF DC), McCarthy, Stefanski (MIN OC),

Then Rappaport brought up 4 names to watch: #Vikings OC Kevin Stefanski, #Patriots OC Josh McDaniels, #Ravens OC Greg Roman, #Saints DC Dennis Allen

Only one not confirmed via Twitterverse yet is Dennis Allen.

 

[amnesiac]

is there a timeframe to find out if Haslam is going full nuclear and firing Dorsey too?

 

[Peak]

is there a timeframe to find out if Haslam is going full nuclear and firing Dorsey too?

I'd have to think we'll hear something soon.  If McDaniels comes in, then you'd have to think he'll bring in his own GM guy (Ziegler or Ceasario).  If Stefanski comes in, you'd think DePodesta may have more of a GM role as that was his pick last year.  If McCarthy comes in, I'd think they would move Wolf into the GM role and give Dorsey the heave ho or a VP of Football Ops type of role.

Either way, I don't think Dorsey remaining GM is set in stone right now.

 

[lod001]

Just say no to Roman. He's not good. He should be paying the BALT OL, (like Gase should be paying Manning) for what they have done for him, when he fleeces some weakly run organization.

 

[franchise punter]

We want the Patriots to lose as soon as possible so McDaniels can get in sooner, right?

 

[lod001]

We saw what it looked like away from the softest coaching nest in possibly NFL history when he crashed and burned in Denver.  We've seen the New England coaching tree wither many times but Josh McDaniels want more control?  The guy who drafted Tim Tebo wants control?  

Hiring McDaniels would be a mistake. Giving McDaniels any control at all would be a colossal mistake. It would go right to his head just like it did in DEN. Belickick is the greatest ever. That's easy to see when you look at his coaching tree and none of them are even remotely any good as HCs in the NFL. The best is OBrien and he shows up in the playoffs, because the division usually stinks, only to go 1 & done.

 

[MAC_32]

is there a timeframe to find out if Haslam is going full nuclear and firing Dorsey too?

Right or wrong I think it's going to depend on the coaching hire. 

 

[ghostguy123]

Top 10 pick?  Sure glad we didnt trade that pick during the year.  

 

[amnesiac]

Right or wrong I think it's going to depend on the coaching hire. 

this team is so confusing.  

 

[MAC_32]

this team is so confusing.  

If you approach it level headed and logically then I could see how you would end up there.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I'd have to think we'll hear something soon.  If McDaniels comes in, then you'd have to think he'll bring in his own GM guy (Ziegler or Ceasario).  If Stefanski comes in, you'd think DePodesta may have more of a GM role as that was his pick last year.  If McCarthy comes in, I'd think they would move Wolf into the GM role and give Dorsey the heave ho or a VP of Football Ops type of role.

Either way, I don't think Dorsey remaining GM is set in stone right now.

Here.  If you have nothing against Josh McDaniels this should sway you to liking him.  If you like him you'll love this but I recall the part where he disclosed his biggest weakness when he was the Broncos head coach.

It is a tremendous read and I clipped a ton.  The red part is the thing I distinctly recall when he was with Denver.  Give Josh credit for showing his worst side.  Its a good insightful piece of personal growth but I saw the things he described as areas he had to work out.  Its a long list of things he had to work out as you can see.

The Redemption of Josh McDaniels: Failure Taught Pats OC How to Pick His Spots

...Josh created an Excel document on his laptop. He named it "lessonslearned.xls."

For a long time, McDaniels had been living on fast forward. After playing a role in three Patriots Super Bowl championships, he was hired as head coach of the Broncos at the don't-know-what-you-don't-know age of 33. The Broncos gave him almost as much power as his former boss Bill Belichick had in New England.

McDaniels quickly traded quarterback Jay Cutler and reshaped the organization to what some called "New England West." He won his first six games as a head coach but then lost 17 of his next 22.

He lost his team and lost himself in the process.

...That winter and into the spring of 2011, McDaniels had plenty of time to ponder it all. He took a job in St. Louis as the offensive coordinator. 

...He was alone in his office for five or six hours every night  ...he began to imagine a new coach.

...many lessons to be considered, about big things and small: the length of meetings, player discipline, to call plays or not call plays, developing assistant coaches, time management, how to build the roster, handling the media, scheduling, how hard to work players...on and on.

Much of what he thought about had to do with relationships.

...long talks with Tony Dungy, his one-time rival with the Colts. Dungy told him he needed to self-reflect every year ...He now realizes that Belichick is a rarity, and no one can run the show like him. 

...Josh acknowledges that he was too reactive and emotional during his Denver days.

..."Lesson Learned: LISTEN better. To anyone who tells me something. There are so many people who can help us win & have wisdom I don't have. I will do my part in teaching but can never stop learning myself. Best results come from a group effort!"

As a head coach, McDaniels had to deal with many more team employees than he did and does as an offensive coordinator. 

...If someone had an idea, McDaniels wasn't all that interested in hearing it. He'd rather do something himself and know it would be done to his standards than delegate to a subordinate. He unwittingly suppressed creativity and growth.

...In McDaniels' second season as a head coach, the Broncos hosted the Raiders in a game that could have turned around their season. The Raiders gave them a 59-14 whipping. McDaniels gathered his assistants in the locker room and chewed them out. He assessed blame and vented.

The young McDaniels never took time to think about how people he worked with might be feeling. He either was lost in the moment or was thinking ahead about what he had to do next.

One former assistant said McDaniels' people skills were a problem.

..."Lesson Learned: I wanted to practice until I felt we totally had it. Wrong Choice. I need to lighten the load and REALIZE the value in allowing the players to feel good about that. Players who feel you are taking care of them will give you all they have during the week and on Sunday."

...Without mutual respect, he realized, it's almost impossible to achieve mutual goals.

There was friction and distrust between McDaniels and some of his Broncos players. In a 2013 interview with 750 The Game in Portland (via PFT), punter Mitch Berger said McDaniels wouldn't talk to him or look at him if he performed below his standards. "I never played for a guy in my life who guys wanted to play for less," he said. "He was just a guy you didn't care about."

This article is a billion words so go to the link.  

My takeaway is Josh earned his rep which wasn't very good.  He 'might' have changed but the bottom line question is would he take over a locker room or resort to his former ways?  I know he failed and that the Indianapolis situation wasn't addressed in this article.  If anything it is a good read.

 

[beer 30]

Hey guys, been away, anything going on?

 

[franchise punter]

I think Larry O and Vernon are back.  Hard to base their play on the fact that they were the only constant starters for most of the season with rookies and guys off the street playing next to them (outside of Richardson).

Joe is a shell game they are playing.  They should pay the guy and move on to the next one.  Unless he's asking for the moon, I don't understand why he's not re-signed yet.

Vernon only played 10 games. In 2017, he played 12. 2018 - 11. Kind of a concerning trend for a guy who turns 30 next year. 

 

[MAC_32]

Vernon only played 10 games. In 2017, he played 12. 2018 - 11. Kind of a concerning trend for a guy who turns 30 next year. 

That's why he needs restructured. If he refuses then it's simple, he's cut. No dead money to do it either. 

 

[Dez]

That's why he needs restructured. If he refuses then it's simple, he's cut. No dead money to do it either. 

Awful trade especially when our OL was not very good and we traded one of our best OL away to get this guy who really did what ?

 

[amnesiac]

Hey guys, been away, anything going on?

nope, just same old #### as always. 

 

[MAC_32]

Awful trade especially when our OL was not very good and we traded one of our best OL away to get this guy who really did what ?

Vernon was effective, even if it did not pop in the stars- but the trade always hinged on Dorsey being right about Corbett.

 

[Peak]

Add Brian Daboll to the list of HC Interviewees

Current List: McDaniels (NE OC), Roman (Balt OC), Saleh (SF DC), McCarthy (ex GB HC), Stefanski (MIN OC), Daboll (BUF OC)

A lot of smoke twirling around McDaniels, for those interested.  Supposedly, Miami fired their OC (O'Shea?) in order to promote their QB Coach Shupinski in attempts to retain him.  Rumor has it, Shupinski is one of the candidates McDaniels has on his list for an OC spot.  Another candidate would be Kevin O'Connell (WASH OC).  The DC choice for McD is the IND DB Coach, Jonathon Gannon.

McDaniels is doing some due diligence in setting up a staff already.  All of these names are from John Carroll University and have ties to McDaniels from his time in Ohio.

 

[DallasDMac]

McDaniels is doing some due diligence in setting up a staff already.  All of these names are from John Carroll University and have ties to McDaniels from his time in Ohio.

Not sure how I feel about that. I'd prefer a coach set up a staff based on competence rather than what appears to be cronyism.

 

[Peak]

Surprising names added to the search this morning...

Per Schefter: 49ers’ passing-game coordinator Mike LaFleur, the younger brother of Packers’ HC Matt LaFleur, is expected to interview this weekend for Browns’ head-coaching job

Per Schefter: 49ers’ run game coordinator Mike McDaniel also likely to interview with Browns

Matt Ruhle declines interview request from the Browns

Current HC Interview List: McDaniels (NE OC), Roman (Balt OC), Saleh (SF DC), McCarthy (ex GB HC), Stefanski (MIN OC), Daboll (BUF OC), LeFleur (SF Passing Coord). M. McDaniel (SF Running Coord)

Refused Interview Request: Ruhle (Baylor HC)

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Likely interviewing SF's Run game coordinator so it 'seems' like informational gathering rather than serious interest.  I'm sure we'd like notes on Shanny's zone blocking schemes.

-----------------------------------------

Adam Schefter‏Verified  - 49ers’ run game coordinator Mike McDaniel also likely to interview with Browns, per source, though nothing set up just yet. So the Browns could go to SF and interview Saleh, McDaniel and Mike LaFleur all in the same weekend. Three 49ers coaches being eyed by the Browns. 7:23 AM - 31 Dec 2019

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The more I think it over the more I don't want McDaniels.  Everyone matures but its a gamble to bet the farm on him working through many issues he showed.  

-----------------------------------

Scott Samek‏ - I’m all aboard the Stefanski train at this point, so they’ll probably go with someone else. Would kubiak come over as OC to help Stefanski? I’m still unsure how that conversation goes after they passed on him last year. 6:23 AM - 31 Dec 2019 from Rocky River, OH

Pete Smith‏ -- I love that notion from an offensive standpoint. I think Mayfield would be a great fit in that type of system too.

----------------------------------

I don't know a thing about Stefanski but I have thought about him bringing Kubiak with him and I LOVE THAT.  Depodesto wanted him last year over Freddie.  If we would have done that then I believe we'd be in the playoffs right now but wouldn't be sitting on a top-ten pick in next year's draft.  At this point it looks really good to land a top offensive tackle or safety with the #10 pick.  Lots of depth at OT should be available in the 2nd round as well and we need use two OTs.

---------------------------------

PFF CLE Browns‏ - The #Browns offensive line finishes the season outside the top-20 after periodic struggles at both tackles and right guard: 6:46 AM - 31 Dec 2019

---------------------------------

Brent Sobleski‏ - What's positive about finishing with the 10th overall pick after a disappointing season?

• OT Andrew Thomas
  
• OT Jedrick Wills
  
• OT Tristan Wirfs
  

Safeties - Isaiah Simmons, Grant Delpit

• DT Derrick Brown
  

If two or three QBs come off the board plus Young & Okudah, one of those prospects will be available.

 

[MAC_32]

Simmons isn't really a safety. At least he shouldn't. That guy can and should play just about everywhere.

I'm skeptical about Delpit and his willingness to tackle. Can't have that in the top 10, especially given the on going issues on this defense when it comes to tackling. 

Any idea on day 2 safeties? I like the idea of OT much more round 1. Quality of talent this year and at a premium position. 

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Simmons isn't really a safety. At least he shouldn't. That guy can and should play just about everywhere.

I'm skeptical about Delpit and his willingness to tackle. Can't have that in the top 10, especially given the on going issues on this defense when it comes to tackling. 

Any idea on day 2 safeties? I like the idea of OT much more round 1. Quality of talent this year and at a premium position. 

I wouldn't go safety or DB.  OT or pass rusher for me.  Lots of OTs 'should' be available in the second round.  Waaaaaaaay to early to seriously dive into draft talk but we know the top names at OT and it does look like we can get one with that top pick.

 

[Peak]

Adding yet another to the ever-growing list....

Per Pelissero: The #Browns have requested an interview with #Chiefs OC Eric Bienemy

Current HC Interview List: McDaniels (NE OC), Roman (Balt OC), Saleh (SF DC), McCarthy (ex GB HC), Stefanski (MIN OC), Daboll (BUF OC), LeFleur (SF Passing Coord). M. McDaniel (SF Running Coord); Bienemy (KC OC)

Refused Interview Request: Ruhle (Baylor HC)

 

[lod001]

Not sure how I feel about that. I'd prefer a coach set up a staff based on competence rather than what appears to be cronyism.

I can see McDaniels wanting a bunch of yes men around him rather than more talented people giving sound & more valuable input to game plans. Tebow.

 

[belljr]

Sleeping with Bienemy?!?!??!

That Eric Bienemy?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Tom Pelissero‏Verified -The #Browns have requested an interview with #Chiefs OC Eric Bienemy, per sources. Could be a busy bye week with #Panthers and #Giants wanting to speak to him as well.  8:41 AM - 31 Dec 2019 from Plymouth, MN

---------------------------------

From last January.

Lots of teams are kicking the tires on EB.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Eric Bieniemy lines up four interviews over next three days

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet

#Chiefs OC Eric Bienemy is set to interview with two teams today -- #Jets and #Bucs. He’ll do his #Dolphins interview tomorrow. The #Bengals interview is Friday, following Vance Joseph’s today. He’s elected to not take the #AZCardinals interview. Four is plenty.

6:05 AM - 2 Jan 2019

----------------------------------------------------------------

He had to turn down one interview.  Playoff teams who are on BYE weeks can allow coaches to interview during this time period.  

An NFL HC interview is intense.  I actually saw Gary Kubiak on his plane ride home after he interviewed with the Browns back in January of 1999 on his BYE week as OC of the Broncos and he looked like he had been dragged through the ringer.  I went up and shook his hand and wished him luck but I knew from the look on his face that he stood no chance to get that job.  

So you don't just get out your most expensive suit, pop in a breath mint and then set it on cruise control.  These interviews are intense.  They want extensive plans on how you as a HC candidate are going to turn around a franchise or address festering problems.  John Dorsey said he wanted full plans on what a HC would do for the Browns.

EB is going on FOUR interviews in three days and he's still got to install his game plan and run meetings, scout teams/players/tendencies.  He had to turn down an opportunity just to fit in other interviews.  Meanwhile Dorsey is conducting interviews.  I'm not saying that EB is on the docket but this week would not be optimal if Dorsey wanted an in-depth interview.  

If this thing drags out then Dorsey's guy might be on the staff of a team who is still in the playoffs and EB seems like the hottest name right now with four scheduled interviews and one team who he had to turn down.  If he wants to take his time to prepare for his biggest interview he 'may' have wanted to push that off and hone his pitch and Dorsey 'may' have the comfort of having an 'Ace-in-the-hole' for his final interview before he makes his decision.

I went to school with Eric and saw him around campus.  Good dude and I followed his NFL playing and coaching careers.  I doubt he gets the job but I would be excited.

I also met Kubiak as noted above.  If Stephanski got the job then I think Kubiak would be a perfect fit as OC if he agreed to come along.

One thing Joe Thomas mentioned about Josh Daniels is that he may be biding his time till Belichick retires so even if he got the job would he be waiting till Bill retires to go back to New England?  

 

[amnesiac]

i've never understood why the NFL doesn't put a freeze on interviews/hirings until after the Super Bowl.

 

[amnesiac]

Not sure how I feel about that. I'd prefer a coach set up a staff based on competence rather than what appears to be cronyism.

the entire NFL is made up of different factions of good ol' boy networks.  

 

[Peak]

Dorsey postponed today's presser to pack his office?

Per Schefter:

Browns and John Dorsey are “leaning towards” parting ways today, sources tell @mortreport and me, but this is a fluid and not final situation. Dorsey is meeting today with Browns’ owner Jimmy Haslam to finalize details. Signs pointing to the end for Dorsey.

 

[Dez]

Oof this team will never get anywhere with its continue firing of coaches and GM's every 1-2 years.

The Beckham trade was a great trade it just didn't work out this year.  No reason to fire Dorsey IMO.  

 

[IHEARTFF]

Oof this team will never get anywhere with its continue firing of coaches and GM's every 1-2 years.

The Beckham trade was a great trade it just didn't work out this year.  No reason to fire Dorsey IMO.  

Probably more Baker and Kitchens fails than OBJ, but could be all of the above. 

 

[beef]

Dorsey did well riding the coattails of Wolf and Thompson.  This should be his last NFL job but have a feeling it won't be.

 

[amnesiac]

Oof this team will never get anywhere with its continue firing of coaches and GM's every 1-2 years.

seems like we keep saying this. 
 

yet, here we are again.  
 

so frustrating.  

 

[GroveDiesel]

So now the Browns either:

A) Take time to find a GM and bring a screeching halt to the coach search and potentially lose out on top candidates

B) Hire a coach first and risk losing top GM candidates who are not happy to not having say in the coach and potentially playing 2nd in command

C) Hire a coach who will also act as GM

Those all seem like great options.

 

[Peak]

Dorsey is gone...

Haslam's statement

Dorsey's Statement

Rumor mill has increased odds of a McDaniels/Ziegler (or Ceasario) pairing as next hires.  Could also go Stefanski/Berry pairing.  Haslam's like McDaniels, DePodesto likes Stefanski.

Curious as to how the SF interviews go.

 

[MAC_32]

So now the Browns either:

A) Take time to find a GM and bring a screeching halt to the coach search and potentially lose out on top candidates

B) Hire a coach first and risk losing top GM candidates who are not happy to not having say in the coach and potentially playing 2nd in command

C) Hire a coach who will also act as GM

Those all seem like great options.

It's probably either the structure McD's agents have told them or Depo/Berry/Stefanski. I wouldn't rule out a 3rd option, but I'd need convinced that wouldn't be a mistake. 

 

[MAC_32]

Dorsey is gone...

Haslam's statement

Dorsey's Statement

Rumor mill has increased odds of a McDaniels/Ziegler (or Ceasario) pairing as next hires.  Could also go Stefanski/Berry pairing.  Haslam's like McDaniels, DePodesto likes Stefanski.

Curious as to how the SF interviews go.

I think most of them are just information gathering. I think similar with Dabol and Roman, but never know with these two running the show. 

 

[Peak]

Interesting take from Brent Sobleski:

Most logical options at this point (I think):

President: Paul DePodesta,

General Manager: Nick Caserio or Dave Zeigler, Head Coach: Josh McDaniels, OC: O'Connell or Schuplinski, DC: Gannon

-OR-

GM: Andrew Berry, HC Kevin Stefanski, OC/AHC: Mike McDaniel or Matt LaFleur, DC: ?

 

[MAC_32]

Probably more Baker and Kitchens fails than OBJ, but could be all of the above. 

It's all of it. He is a good talent evaluator, but nothing he's done since getting here lendale reason to believe he can build a team. I imagine he didn't get a quick hook because they considered keeping him on in a reduced capacity, but no way was Dorsey ever doing that. For the best anyway. Arranged marriages rarely work. 

 

[ghostguy123]

Can we start over from 1999 again?  We are???  Ok cool

 

[MAC_32]

Maybe something involving Wolf/McCarthy is on the table too.

Breer was just on here saying Depo doesn't wish to relocate so that means another piece would need added to the Berry/Stefanski pairing if that's the chosen route. It could also leave him involved with McD, but that leaves me with a raised eyebrow (oh, who am I kidding all of it does).

 

[beer 30]

 

[The Man With No Name]

So many positives going into the season.

So many negatives after the season.

 

[MAC_32]

Breer eluded to something I've long suspected and we have hinted at in here - Dorsey's preference for a weaker head coach that wouldn't check his power. Looking at who was interviewed and who wasn't last year it always made sense.

Still waiting for confirmation on exactly how much influence, but he supposedly had a heavy hand in the assembly of Freddie's staff (OBR has been on this). This is why I was pointing the finger at Dorsey last month. This year was all him, Freddie was just collateral damage. He did a poor job coaching, but 2019 was a product of poor organizational management. 

All that doesn't mean ownership will get it right going forward though. They probably won't. They can be wrong and Dorsey still the problem, it isn't one or the other. 

 

[top dog]

As a life long fan, I can't say this surprises me. 

 

[Beef Ravioli]

I like the idea of Josh McD getting another opportunity. I am assuming (perhaps I shouldn’t) he would have learned and grown from his Denver experiences. I don’t want a first time head coach learning on the job. 

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Freddie was just collateral damage

Come on.