Bobcat10
Footballguy
Technically false.
But it's not like any of it matters at this point anyways. They weren't hiring Rhule or Judge.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Cleveland Browns (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter wadegarrett
- Start date
But it's not like any of it matters at this point anyways. They weren't hiring Rhule or Judge.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Carolina was the first to fire, Rivera.
Belichick is a football coach whose best work is putting in a strong game plan and on the sidelines making game-day adjustments. He's been around longer than Billy Bean and knows football but he's not a luddite, he adapts but he is without a doubt a football coach. Publically he disses analytics but he uses them.
Publicly, Bill Belichick dismisses analytics
The only guy left in the Browns FO other than Jimmy is Paul DePodesta.
Linear Regression: Moneyball — Part 1 A statistical case study of the popular sports story
Paul is the Jonna Hill character in the film. If you haven't seen the movie its good.
Jimmy allows Depo a home base in San Diego and a seat next to him at every game, he is the first owner to go whole-analytics with his organization when he made Sashi Brown his GM. It didn't turn out well in terms of acquiring talent because Sashi isn't and wasn't a football guy.
Dorsey got fired because he dismissed Depo's analytics but he is the only GM the Browns have had since the return that brought in talent.
Mac has been on Dorsey's jock to the point he says Freddie Kitchens is nothing other than collateral damage which is silly so he's taking another swipe at Dorsey when we all know any HC is going to have to sign off on analytics and all of the candidates left will so it a none-issue.
Last edited by a moderator:
Technically Washington was first to fire, but it was so long ago it almost feels like a different season.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Doh. That's the one.
For you, the Patriot beat writers think Josh isn't going to leave.
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/delaying-interviews-cost-josh-mcdaniels-his-shots-giants-panthers-jobs
What do you think?
I think, after McDaniels’ last head coaching flirtation, that trying to predict this one would be impossible.
Will he sign with the Browns, then pull a Belichek, retire, be signed by the Chargers a week later, then decide not to show up and go skiing with Andrew Luck instead? Maybe. No more farfetched than hiring assistants in Indy only decide that he didn’t really mean it.
Maybe they offer him, maybe they don’t. Maybe he decides not to take the offer if it comes. Down to one opening.. he’s got an easy out if he doesn’t want to take on Cleveland.
I try to be fairly objective when analyzing this hobby...leads to the best results. McDaniels is one of the small handful that this is hard for me, because I genuinely want him to fail. Nothing I’ve seen suggests any remorse, much less improvement gained from the Indy debacle.
(As a Steelers fan though..I guess having him in Cleveland would allow me to consolodate some of my fan-fueld emotions more efficiently,)
MAC_32
Footballguy
I don't even know where to begin when this is the mindset. Anyone resistant to additional information because it's not the way it's always been done is a hindrance to any organization in any business to go forward.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I think your actions make it crystal clear you have no interests in knowing facts that arent aligned with your preconceived bias, but if I'm wrong then you really should sign up for obr and read (part of) the real story. I didn't know the details, but I wasn't pulling my in-season posts out of my ###. This town is not that big and birds chirp. They both earned their pink slips. Time to move on.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
You want some analytics? How many QBs have played in the Super Bowl for the AFC since 2003?
Exactly 4! Brady, Ben, Peyton and believe it or not Flacco. So chew those thru the analytics because I'm not doubting anything but to assume that only a coach can make it on analytics and maybe I misread what you were saying but that seems a bit narrow to me.
Let's rewind and go back to the 80s for a minute. Did everyone run the shotgun like Miami? The K-Gun in Buffalo? The 2-Back attack in Cleveland? The trio at WR in Denver and Washington? My point is not all teams can run the same exact offenses and I'm sure some of what you're referencing is like the movie Moneyball which I have seen and is a good movie as someone else said. Is that all we're discussing here is salary vs tackles, fumbles, interceptions, etc because I thought it was more in depth in the NFL.
But let's get back to the fact that Cleveland still has a vacant spot. Does it seem lie they are getting their choice of head coach? Because you all have done this a lot and are paying out a lot of ex-coach salary. It's not anything to do with you the fan base but I am really hesitant to put stock into what they are doing and I certainly wouldn't assume they are making the right moves. I thought Dorsey did a good job up until this season but it was horrible when he got there. Maybe you all feel different.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
According to Albert Breer this is the reason why McDaniels pulled out of the Indy HC job that he had locked up.
Audio LINK less than one minute listen
>>> Why exactly did McDaniels pull out of the Colts head coaching position?
Wow. I mean just a misunderstanding between Josh and Ballard on technicalities caused him to leave in a huff?
Josh turned us down for an interview a few years back.
If Jimmy really truly wants him then he'd better have every tiny detail ironed out because Josh had hired assistants and left them dangling.
Reich is a good guy and hired them on his staff but listen to that clip because that is what is reported to have happened in Indy.
Honestly you would think that a big hire wouldn't fall apart on such petty details where one or both sides couldn't reach a compromise.
Audio LINK less than one minute listen
>>> Why exactly did McDaniels pull out of the Colts head coaching position?Wow. I mean just a misunderstanding between Josh and Ballard on technicalities caused him to leave in a huff?
Josh turned us down for an interview a few years back.
If Jimmy really truly wants him then he'd better have every tiny detail ironed out because Josh had hired assistants and left them dangling.
Reich is a good guy and hired them on his staff but listen to that clip because that is what is reported to have happened in Indy.
Honestly you would think that a big hire wouldn't fall apart on such petty details where one or both sides couldn't reach a compromise.
Peak
Footballguy
Haven't listened to it as I'm at work. But did he mention the part where Irsay showed up at Josh's house drunk and naked in front of the McDaniels family talking about how happy he was to have Josh on board? That is a great story! It also ended with Josh backing out of the Colts job.According to Albert Breer this is the reason why McDaniels pulled out of the Indy HC job that he had locked up.
Audio LINK less than one minute listen
Wow. I mean just a misunderstanding between Josh and Ballard on technicalities caused him to leave in a huff?
Josh turned us down for an interview a few years back.
If Jimmy really truly wants him then he'd better have every tiny detail ironed out because Josh had hired assistants and left them dangling.
Reich is a good guy and hired them on his staff but listen to that clip because that is what is reported to have happened in Indy.
Honestly you would think that a big hire wouldn't fall apart on such petty details where one or both sides couldn't reach a compromise.
Or there was the one where the Colts lied to him about the seriousness of Luck's injury, and his reluctantness to return to the NFL? If you were promised an top level QB to lead your offense, only to learn after you were hired that he isn't healthy and may not return, what would you do? Buyer's remorse?
There are plenty of stories floating around. Just depends who you listen to and who you believe, I guess.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Your timeline is off. Luck played a full 16 game season under Frank Reich (after McDaniels backed out) in 2018 and threw for 39 TDs. Luck retired prior to this season and it was out of the blue.
Josh McDaniels is a jerkoff for what he did to the Colts. No one should defend him for that. That doesn't necessarily mean he'd be a bad hire for Cleveland, but I'd be a bit leery about him leading a team.
Peak
Footballguy
I dunno...I got that from the NYP who quoted ESPN. Thats where they also discussed Irsay's behavior being a concern to McDaniels. Again, guess it depends on where you get the info and who you trust.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That doesn't say what you claimed - and unless McDaniel was in a coma it was known before he took the interview that Luck missed the 2017 season. But he did play in 16 games in 2018 and threw for 4,500 yards and nearly 40 TDs.I dunno...I got that from the NYP who quoted ESPN. Thats where they also discussed Irsay's behavior being a concern to McDaniels. Again, guess it depends on where you get the info and who you trust.
And it's not a matter of trusting a source to know that he hired assistant coaches to come to Indy with him and then hung them out to dry (and the Colts as well since they had to start over).
Peak
Footballguy
Completely agree with the assistant coach assessment...it was a #### move for sure. Granted, it may have turned out okay for them? Some media say it was justified and there was more than what went on than what we've read/know. That's the joke about Irsay showing up drunk/high at McDaniels house freaking out his wife. These make fun stories to hear, but who knows what the truth actually was for his actions?Dr. Octopus said:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
so whats going on here? no GM and last to hire a coach. I mean I get the Dorsey thing, he did hire freddy freaking kitchens as HC, but he made a lot of good moves
amnesiac
beer is good
at this point it’s not as critical, but there’s a reason most teams try to get it done as soon as possible.
also, i think fans are frustrated and just want to know what the plan is moving forward.
Last edited by a moderator:
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
This offense is a perfect fit. Mike/Kyle Shanahans specialized in the zone blocking (picked that up in SF when Mike was the OC) and boot-rolls. This base of knowledge got passed down to Kubiak who seems to have had a great influence on Stefanski who has picked up key aspects of this offense.
Really good read but if you only listen to insider information then you probably doubt anything that can be confirmed with your own eyes over the years and will dismiss this.
Why Kevin Stefanski Might Be the NFL's Next Great Offensive Coach
Really good read but if you only listen to insider information then you probably doubt anything that can be confirmed with your own eyes over the years and will dismiss this.
Why Kevin Stefanski Might Be the NFL's Next Great Offensive Coach
daveR
Footballguy
I like it! Only way I'd want McDaniels is if Brady came with. (said the peanut gallery. ie me.)
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
At this point what would be the need to rush really? They're competing with no one else now and based on reports the only candidate they lost that was really under consideration was McCarthy - and Dallas was the better job anyway (for a myriad of reasons).
Peak
Footballguy
Alot of talk online about Stefanski's success being due to Kubiak's influence. The big question out there that remains unsolved is whether or not Stefanski can stand on his own without Kubiak?
This has always been a 3 dog race: McCarthy, McDaniels, and Stefanski. I'm good with either of McD or Stefanski - no particular order. If Stefanski can bring Kubiak with him, that is a hard deal to pass up IMO.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Both of the top candidates (according to us) come along with positives/negatives/etc and would be fine choices for the team. There isn't much worth pigeon holing over imo.
Why does Brady make or break him for you? And what would Brady's role be in your opinion and what does that do to Baker's future with the Browns?
Peak
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
If the biggest question with Stephanski is his success away from Kubiak then McDaniels has two huge questions facing him.
We saw he failed away from Tom Brady and Bill Belichick with the Broncos.
We saw he failed away from TB and BB with the Rams.
The reason he failed is basically he was a #### to everyone. He went to work on himself and he's a changed man according to Josh. OK. He faces the same question and it has nothing to do with his personality disorder.
Can he be successful away from TB and BB?
The NE offense is complex. It relies on attacking weakness and breaking tendencies working in tandem with the HC, i.e., situational football = BB. The offense needs a QB who can change by the week. The WRs are crucial for it to work and have to be Ok not being fed and have to be good/great blocking. Situational football we know from Mangini.
Stephanski has no personality disorder to overcome and he has not been leaning on a HOF QB or HOF HC for his success.
Kubiak picked up his knowledge from the Shanahans and Mike picked up much of his original zone scheme from the SF O-Line coach.
The offense has been taught and learned so even if Kubiak isn't part of the package I feel good about Stephanski being able to bring the base knowledge and adapting to our personnel. McD offense is more of a question fitting with our personnel.
We don't know if either of them can handle the HC position that position goes beyond handling Baker or the offense but I like Stephanski's offense as a better fit for our personnel.
Peak
Footballguy
Don't disagree with you on that, and DePo had his eye on Stefanski last year. His other pick (Sean McDermott) has done well for himself in BUFF as well.
I have no idea if McD has changed/learned from past mistakes. Many say that he has, while others argue that a leopard can't change his spots. What I do find entertaining is that some of the media who say McD is a horrible person and incapable of change are the same ones saying McCarthy has reinvented himself and learned from his mistakes. McCarthy had a year at best to change, whereas McD has had about 4 years since Denver? 2 years since Indy? But he's incapable of changing. You can't make the claim for one without giving the other the benefit of the doubt, IMO.
Personally, I think McD has been setup from the beginning for the job. DePo didn't get his chance to interview him last year thanks to Dorsey. It'll be interesting to hear DePo's thoughts and how he would rank/rate McD and Stefanski after interviewing both of them.
daveR
Footballguy
The reason I mention Brady is because he would make the transition seamless. McDaniels by himself means going through all the growing pains all over again. It really has zero chance & I just put it out there to elicit discussion. It WOULD mess up Baker-as-a-Brown going forward, for sure!
Peak
Footballguy
Like a boardroom approach? Who would each group report to for final say? How would decisions get made on which FA to chase and how much to sign them for? Would it turn into death by meetings as they try to negotiate with each FA? I think you'll want a direct person that has final say and can handle those conversations, right?
At least where I work, each group still has a group leader who still report up to a central figure. Trying to get project budgets finalized, or change requests approved takes forever. We need to get with each group/team, talk to finance, re-write proposals based on finance planning, resubmit for approval, have meetings set with each department to review/discuss, then adjust again based on their feedback, get approval, take back to finance just for them to tell us the budget has slashed again, then we start the process over again.
I can only imagine what contract negotiations would look like in the NFL if it worked the same way.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
We won't know if this has been overcome but he will face emotional breaking points. He will be tested so it is a question facing him that does not face Stephanski.
What does McCarthy have to do with McDaniels? They are different people so if McCarthy changes does that mean McDaniels automatically has changed because he's had more time to work on himself?
McCarthy has been hired and this is what we see so far.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael GehlkenVerified account @GehlkenNFL
Cowboys VP Stephen Jones said that Mike McCarthy has expressed, upon hearing how much input he’ll have in Dallas, that McCarthy will have a greater voice in football decisions here than he did in Green Bay.
2:02 PM - 8 Jan 2020
Ari Temkin @arisports
My observation based on what McCarthy said at today’s press conference is that he will be calling the plays.
3:16 PM - 8 Jan 2020 from Dallas, TX
-----------------------------------------------------------
More power and he's going to be HC/OC so a lot of power in holding two positions.
Not sure his issues in GB but he's got more power and control so if that was the issue he has not changed his spots so how does that bode fro McD?
It doesn't because one person's issues are theirs to overcome. Big picture is whether or not someone has an issue to overcome.
The point remains. Josh McDaniels has to overcome issues that he feels directly lead to his failures with the Broncos and Rams so that is one big question that does not face Stephanski.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
The Breer report is accurate according to the inside sources.Peak said:
Lane Adkins runs the OBR.MAC_32 said:
Your inside source confirms the Breer report.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LA @TheRealLA__
Again, folks keep referencing McDaniels leaving the Colts at the altar ---- there is more than meets the eye on that
6:43 PM - 8 Jan 2020
Suat Bakar @lilsurock 13h13 hours ago - Do you think the real story will come out this off season? And do you know what really happen?
LA @TheRealLA__ 13h13 hours ago
Only heard talk....... someone in the national media spoke on it recently, can't recall who
Browns Hire McDaniels it's easy @JoeThomasSZN 13h13 hours ago - Albert breer referenced he chose to leave colts because of everything of how the structure works strength and conditioning video medicals
LA @TheRealLA__ 13h13 hours ago
That is what I have been saying about him ---- it is so much about structure, clear responsibility and vision, no overlapping of such that clouds vision and team
LA @TheRealLA__ 13h13 hours ago
McDaniels likes structure, does not like responsibility overlapping .....he learned from Bill B
Peak
Footballguy
It was more of a social commentary on how the media will spin the same question different ways to fit their narrative. I have no idea on what McCarthy needs to change, or if having power is what he wants/needed, nor do I care. If Power was his angle, then that explains why he wasn't pursued harder by the Browns HC Search committee.
In regards to Stefanski vs McDaniels, the latest scoop from Josina Anderson makes it sound like the locker room in Berea is also split on the two candidates:
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Ironic. Media covering McCarthy are expressing social commentary and are biased but not players as reported by media.
Least you are better than posting emoticons but the narrative that what you believe is not social commentary or biased and what you disagree with is. If everything is nothing but biased social commentary then nothing can be right or wrong yet we see this team has consistently sucked so something is obviously and objectively wrong.
One reason is decisions by the owners. We can and should question prospective head coaches they are considering especially if no other teams have interviewed them and if one has a failed history and a personality disorder that lead to his failures.
Peak
Footballguy
Honestly, I have no idea what you are saying right now. I'm not sure if you want me to reply or not. My opinion all along is I don't care who the HC will be, it has to be better than what we had. Sorry if you think I'm posting in a biased manner. Just linking up different points of view. But if you want to drive the narrative, have at it. I'm just interested in talking about the search, not engaging in an argument every time I post something.
Peak
Footballguy
On a side note...Looks like Freddie may not be out of a job for long...
Per Jordan Ranaan: New Giants coach Joe Judge is expected to speak with former Browns head coach Freddie Kitchens about a spot on his offensive staff, per source. The two worked together at Mississippi State.
Sounds like if Freddie goes, he'll bring some of his offensive staff from CLE with him to NY.
Per Jordan Ranaan: New Giants coach Joe Judge is expected to speak with former Browns head coach Freddie Kitchens about a spot on his offensive staff, per source. The two worked together at Mississippi State.
Sounds like if Freddie goes, he'll bring some of his offensive staff from CLE with him to NY.
Peak
Footballguy
With it being Stefanski Day in the epic HC Search, I thought this was good to share. I guess some fans aren't happy with the CLE interview schedule. 
CLE Tweet: We're set to interview Vikings OC Kevin Stefanski for Head Coach this afternoon.
MIN Fan: Replying to @Browns and @AccessVikings
Cool cool cool. Really appreciate Stefanski doing this interview in the middle of our game plan for the biggest game of the year. The Browns aren’t competing with any other team for a head coach. Do the ####### thing Sunday.
CLE Tweet: We're set to interview Vikings OC Kevin Stefanski for Head Coach this afternoon.
MIN Fan: Replying to @Browns and @AccessVikings
Cool cool cool. Really appreciate Stefanski doing this interview in the middle of our game plan for the biggest game of the year. The Browns aren’t competing with any other team for a head coach. Do the ####### thing Sunday.
top dog
Footballguy
On a positive note, the State of Ohio is considering adding "Being a Browns/Bengals Fan" as an accepted condition for medical marijuana.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/09/us/ohio-browns-bengals-marijuana-spt-trnd/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/09/us/ohio-browns-bengals-marijuana-spt-trnd/index.html
Bobcat10
Footballguy
You're just wasting your time more than anything. Your posts have been legitimate. You also aren't making things up or acting like you know these people.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
amnesiac
beer is good
from my understanding, the Browns have nothing to do with the schedule.With it being Stefanski Day in the epic HC Search, I thought this was good to share. I guess some fans aren't happy with the CLE interview schedule.
CLE Tweet: We're set to interview Vikings OC Kevin Stefanski for Head Coach this afternoon.
MIN Fan: Replying to @Browns and @AccessVikings
Cool cool cool. Really appreciate Stefanski doing this interview in the middle of our game plan for the biggest game of the year. The Browns aren’t competing with any other team for a head coach. Do the ####### thing Sunday.
they ask permission and are then told when they are allowed to interview.
Peak
Footballguy
On a similar note, this is my current favorite CLE tshirt design. We picked up a few for our IT/DEV team at work. Double meaning intended.On a positive note, the State of Ohio is considering adding "Being a Browns/Bengals Fan" as an accepted condition for medical marijuana.
