continuation of the Devin hester dilemmna.... (1 Viewer)

[T with T]

I just want to continue with this Devin hester Dilemma. I think I would rather have Jacoby Ford Or Desean Jackson as far as Sp players go. I know there were some FBGers running around saying Hester is the best return man ever but I think we have two right now playing that are just as good if not more explosive and if they were mainly focusing on being a PR/KR like Hester was doing when he scored all his tds... he had 7 return tds in two years, while not playing any wr.. The years the bears used him for a wr he had 0 tds back2back years... if anything he is only a SP guy and guys like FORD and DJAX play both and look to be pretty good at both so its unfair to classify Hester ahead of dynamites like that. Ford clocked one of the fastest players ever and is exciting and Djax has amazing kr/pr tds all the time...

 

[shortbow]

I dont think its debatable whether DJax or Ford, or any other active football players are worse return men then Hester, its a fact.

But of course most other return men are more valuable fantasy wise because they arent ST players they are defensive or offensive players.

 

[Late225]

It's not crucial to the argument, but DJAX stopped returning kicks to return punts exclusively at one point in the season.

 

[T with T]

It's not crucial to the argument, but DJAX stopped returning kicks to return punts exclusively at one point in the season.

they get way less opportunities then hester to return kicks... hester is exclusively a Special teams player and not a wr, whereas Desean and Ford could both be Number 1 targets in 2011 and on. Hester is nowhere near being a number 2 wr, let alone a number 1.

 

[T with T]

If you Compare Devin hester career PR to Desean and his Kr stats to Ford here is what it comes out to...

Hester 178atts for 2200 and 10 tds.... 12. 4 ypr

Desean 99 atts 1112 and 4 tds.... 11.2 ypr

Jacoby ford who has never had a punt return but had KR duties... his number as follow

53 returns for 1280 yards and 3 tds. thats a 24.2 ypr acually 0.1 better then Hester's career. And also here's something to note, Hester has never had over 1000 Kr yards in a season and Ford shattered that. Ford could actually be compared to him one day if he gets to do some Punt Returns come on

 

[T with T]

So Hester has 4 ret tds in 113 atts and Ford has 3 ret tds in 52 atts. I know there were a lot of Hester lovers breaking down numbers and avg about how awesome hester was well how about that one. I think we just found a guy that is more explosive then Hester and definatly faster. Hester is a 4.41 guy 4.38 at best on a good day with the wind blowing towards him. Jacoby can fly at about 4.26-4.28 and is an olympic 60 m 100 m 200 m 400 m track runner and actually has NCAA records for 60 meter sprints, guy is a beast

 

[shortbow]

If you Compare Devin hester career PR to Desean and his Kr stats to Ford here is what it comes out to...Hester 178atts for 2200 and 10 tds.... 12. 4 yprDesean 99 atts 1112 and 4 tds.... 11.2 yprJacoby ford who has never had a punt return but had KR duties... his number as follow53 returns for 1280 yards and 3 tds. thats a 24.2 ypr acually 0.1 better then Hester's career. And also here's something to note, Hester has never had over 1000 Kr yards in a season and Ford shattered that. Ford could actually be compared to him one day if he gets to do some Punt Returns come on

Picking and choosing what to count, clearly the worst way to prove a point.

 

[Tau837]

We needed a new thread for this? Come on.

 

[T with T]

If you Compare Devin hester career PR to Desean and his Kr stats to Ford here is what it comes out to...Hester 178atts for 2200 and 10 tds.... 12. 4 yprDesean 99 atts 1112 and 4 tds.... 11.2 yprJacoby ford who has never had a punt return but had KR duties... his number as follow53 returns for 1280 yards and 3 tds. thats a 24.2 ypr acually 0.1 better then Hester's career. And also here's something to note, Hester has never had over 1000 Kr yards in a season and Ford shattered that. Ford could actually be compared to him one day if he gets to do some Punt Returns come on

Picking and choosing what to count, clearly the worst way to prove a point.

How am I picking and choosing.. Ford has only done KR duties so thats all we have to compare. Desean has only done PR duties so thats all you have to compare. How am I picking and choosing. Hester has shown no ability to play wr. Last time I checked these two guys Djax, Ford are Receiv Hers first and don't spend all their time in the SP dept. The only point I was trying to make is that Devin Hester isn't far and away the best ever Pr/kr guy and their are a ton of comparable guys like Sayers, metcalf, brian mitchell Dante Hall, Djax, Ford

 

[sihaokills]

Ford is a great returner and receiver. Hester could just return

 

[T with T]

Ford is a great returner and receiver. Hester could just return

my point exactly.. Ford is just as good of a returner as Hester and a far better wr.

 

[SWC]

i agree that hester is agreat returner but he is one dimensiona like someone who doesnt have the ability to go up and down but only straight or back and deshaw and jacoby are like four dimensional players who basically use a tardis on hesters skills so basically they are all good but deshawn and jacoby have it over hester because they can do more

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I owned the "returner" debate in the last thread.

When you put on your big boy pants and start respecting other members, maybe I will get involved.

 

[shortbow]

Ford is a great returner and receiver. Hester could just return

my point exactly.. Ford is just as good of a returner as Hester and a far better wr.

If this is your point - you're wrong.And in regards to you're previous post, the reason you're picking and choosing is because being a returnman doesnt restrict you to one form of returns or another, your doing that and its stupid. No one will disagree that the people you are comparing them to are better offensive or defensive players than Hester (in fact I stated it in my first post), but none of them are better special teams players (this is based on fact). There are three units in football, they are mutually exclusive from each other.Why you felt it necessary to make a new thread, then argue a point that is not only already been debunked by tangible easy to access statistics, but completely unprovoked boggles my mind.Wes Welker is a better kicker than Ndamukong Suh because he is a better pass catcher. Discuss.

 

[Tau837]

I owned the "returner" debate in the last thread.When you put on your big boy pants and start respecting other members, maybe I will get involved.

Hester will not and should not make the HOF, and he is not and likely will not be the best returner of all time. Pretty sure you disagreed with those points, and thus you did not own the thread, you got However, the quality of the posts in that thread was awful, so I can understand how you may have lost the important points in there. You very well may have owned some of the lousy posters in there, but that's a low bar...

 

[Nero]

If you Compare Devin hester career PR to Desean and his Kr stats to Ford here is what it comes out to...Hester 178atts for 2200 and 10 tds.... 12. 4 yprDesean 99 atts 1112 and 4 tds.... 11.2 yprJacoby ford who has never had a punt return but had KR duties... his number as follow53 returns for 1280 yards and 3 tds. thats a 24.2 ypr acually 0.1 better then Hester's career. And also here's something to note, Hester has never had over 1000 Kr yards in a season and Ford shattered that. Ford could actually be compared to him one day if he gets to do some Punt Returns come on

This past season was Hester's best in returns even though he also played WR. Returning punts he had an average of over 17 yards on 33 returns with 3 TD's. DJax had 20 returns with an average of over 11yards with 1 TD. He also managed 427 yards in only 12 kick returns as compared to the 53 it took for Ford to get his 1280 yards. As a return man, neither Ford or Jackson measure up. Hester is the best no doubt.

 

[massraider]

I don't want to count on a returner.

First, the wheels come off quick. All of a sudden, they can't break the big one anymore. And it happens all of a sudden. The Sikahema's and Mitchell's are very, very rare.

Second, you need KO returners. Punt guys have too many zeros.

A stud player that also returns is gold in ST yardage leagues, but at any moment they can just have those duties taken away if they are deemed too valuable, or if the team drafts some 4th round CB that can return kicks.

In IDP leagues I look for starting CBs that return kicks, that's about it.

Jacoby is sure sexy right now, but he is strictly a big play guy right now, counting on Jason Campbell to get him the ball. That's decidedly un-sexy.

 

[drater]

Gonna be a lot more touchbacks this year unless guys start bringing the ball out 7 yards deep in an attempt to break big ones. Not a very likely proposition from a volume standpoint. I have no dog in this fight except to say target punt returners over kick returners in return yardage leagues.

 

[Sweet Love]

I don't want to count on a returner. First, the wheels come off quick. All of a sudden, they can't break the big one anymore. And it happens all of a sudden. The Sikahema's and Mitchell's are very, very rare.Second, you need KO returners. Punt guys have too many zeros. A stud player that also returns is gold in ST yardage leagues, but at any moment they can just have those duties taken away if they are deemed too valuable, or if the team drafts some 4th round CB that can return kicks.In IDP leagues I look for starting CBs that return kicks, that's about it. Jacoby is sure sexy right now, but he is strictly a big play guy right now, counting on Jason Campbell to get him the ball. That's decidedly un-sexy.

I like the post...the wheels do come off quick (remember the BEST EVER just six short years ago in Dante Hall?). While these guys are a dime a dozen (think Roell Preston for GB back about 7-8 years ago), there are so many other position that are more consistent to focus on. Also, it is almost silly to talk TDs when considering KRs. In FF, we always say it is tough to project TDs for RBs (for example), but KRs are 10X more inconsistent. Think about, Hester has 14 special team TDs, and most flash in the pans get 4-5 over their career (heck Leon Washington has 7) and we are squabbling over 7 career TDs?!?!If I am drafting a KR, I do what you do; grab a random CB/nickel back who returns on a crummy team and let him pile up the yards...and then find the next guy who does it in 2012, 2013, etc. I guess my point is that at the price you have to get Hester or Ford at in a league where you return points, aren't you better off drafting a proper WR and just getting a guy who will give you the yards and a random TD late in the draft for a kick returner? For example, I would be curious to see how Hester measured up in a league versus LaRod Stephens-Howling (who had 1500+ return yards for an average of 27.2 yards and 2 TDs...and 1 TD rushing and 16 catches). Why isn't he being talked about?

 

[Sweet Love]

I don't want to count on a returner. First, the wheels come off quick. All of a sudden, they can't break the big one anymore. And it happens all of a sudden. The Sikahema's and Mitchell's are very, very rare.Second, you need KO returners. Punt guys have too many zeros. A stud player that also returns is gold in ST yardage leagues, but at any moment they can just have those duties taken away if they are deemed too valuable, or if the team drafts some 4th round CB that can return kicks.In IDP leagues I look for starting CBs that return kicks, that's about it. Jacoby is sure sexy right now, but he is strictly a big play guy right now, counting on Jason Campbell to get him the ball. That's decidedly un-sexy.

I like the post...the wheels do come off quick (remember the BEST EVER just six short years ago in Dante Hall?). While these guys are a dime a dozen (think Roell Preston for GB back about 7-8 years ago), there are so many other position that are more consistent to focus on. Also, it is almost silly to talk TDs when considering KRs. In FF, we always say it is tough to project TDs for RBs (for example), but KRs are 10X more inconsistent. Think about, Hester has 14 special team TDs, and most flash in the pans get 4-5 over their career (heck Leon Washington has 7) and we are squabbling over 7 career TDs?!?!If I am drafting a KR, I do what you do; grab a random CB/nickel back who returns on a crummy team and let him pile up the yards...and then find the next guy who does it in 2012, 2013, etc. I guess my point is that at the price you have to get Hester or Ford at in a league where you return points, aren't you better off drafting a proper WR and just getting a guy who will give you the yards and a random TD late in the draft for a kick returner? For example, I would be curious to see how Hester measured up in a league versus LaRod Stephens-Howling (who had 1500+ return yards for an average of 27.2 yards and 2 TDs...and 1 TD rushing and 16 catches). Why isn't he being talked about?