Covid and School This Fall (4 Viewers)

[Galileo]

Well, if we don't get shut down due to numbers surging again, our district has rolled out their plan.  They are presenting families with a choice and asking them to commit to either being at home or in person.  My comments that follow here are for grades 6-12. I have not looked at the details for younger levels yet.  The folks at home are going to follow a schedule just as if they were in the building.  Classes will essentially be live streamed via a web cam so kids at home can follow along.  Google Classroom will be utilized to distribute materials and organize resources (GC is not new for us).  We will be utilizing a block schedule so that only 4 classes (90 min) will meet each day which will lesson class changes.  Folks at home will be watching whatever is going on in the classroom.   In a little twist of WTF, those going in-person will be social distanced as best as possible.  Part of that plan will limit the number of students in the classroom to no more than 20.  If a class has more than 20, some students will be sent to an alternate location in the building to essentially have the same experience as those at home.  They will rotate which students get sent to an alternate location each day.  

Here is their vision of what a socially distance classroom will look like at the lower levels          I am not sure what the plan will be for my room where the lab tables typically accommodate 2 students.

As I posted earlier in this thread, I believe instruction is going to be much less effective than it could be by trying to serve both formats during the same class session.  It certainly does not fit my teaching style or subject matter very well, but this decision is out of my control.  I guess it's time to roll up the sleeves and do the best I can.  If I was a student at home watching 6 hours of classes (4 x 90 min) per day through a web cam, I think I would want to slit my wrists.  At least our survey results indicated 85% would send their kids to school, although this was from May when it looked like we had things heading in a positive direction.

 

[The Gator]

Well, if we don't get shut down due to numbers surging again, our district has rolled out their plan.  They are presenting families with a choice and asking them to commit to either being at home or in person.  My comments that follow here are for grades 6-12. I have not looked at the details for younger levels yet.  The folks at home are going to follow a schedule just as if they were in the building.  Classes will essentially be live streamed via a web cam so kids at home can follow along.  Google Classroom will be utilized to distribute materials and organize resources (GC is not new for us).  We will be utilizing a block schedule so that only 4 classes (90 min) will meet each day which will lesson class changes.  Folks at home will be watching whatever is going on in the classroom.   In a little twist of WTF, those going in-person will be social distanced as best as possible.  Part of that plan will limit the number of students in the classroom to no more than 20.  If a class has more than 20, some students will be sent to an alternate location in the building to essentially have the same experience as those at home.  They will rotate which students get sent to an alternate location each day.  

Here is their vision of what a socially distance classroom will look like at the lower levels          I am not sure what the plan will be for my room where the lab tables typically accommodate 2 students.

As I posted earlier in this thread, I believe instruction is going to be much less effective than it could be by trying to serve both formats during the same class session.  It certainly does not fit my teaching style or subject matter very well, but this decision is out of my control.  I guess it's time to roll up the sleeves and do the best I can.  If I was a student at home watching 6 hours of classes (4 x 90 min) per day through a web cam, I think I would want to slit my wrists.  At least our survey results indicated 85% would send their kids to school, although this was from May when it looked like we had things heading in a positive direction.

Are you guys normally on a block schedule?

Our district, with the exception of one high school, is already on block schedules, and that seems to create 2 challenges in the options they offered earlier this summer.  First splitting the kids into two groups, while still getting schedules ironed out seems like a daunting task with A/B schedules already.  Second, one option was for kids to go M and W (or T and Th) - that means you get each teacher, once a week, and in each session you have to follow-up on previous assignments, and then push on to new material.  It just feels like everything is going to be rushed.

SIde question - for the kids at home, how would they ever be able to keep up with lab work in your class?  (or Chem or Biology)?

 

[Galileo]

Are you guys normally on a block schedule?

Our district, with the exception of one high school, is already on block schedules, and that seems to create 2 challenges in the options they offered earlier this summer.  First splitting the kids into two groups, while still getting schedules ironed out seems like a daunting task with A/B schedules already.  Second, one option was for kids to go M and W (or T and Th) - that means you get each teacher, once a week, and in each session you have to follow-up on previous assignments, and then push on to new material.  It just feels like everything is going to be rushed.

SIde question - for the kids at home, how would they ever be able to keep up with lab work in your class?  (or Chem or Biology)?

We are not normally blocked.  We have been 5 x 50 min per week.  This is a “modified” block with even classes on T, Th...odd classes + a support period w/ office hours on W, F.  I am still not clear on what Mondays will look like as it was described differently in different parts of the “plan”.  Will need clarification on that.  So, we will have less instructional time for sure.  Old - 250 min per week....new - 180 + whatever Monday has going on.

With regard to lab work, that is one of the big questions to figure out for both home and in person.  At school, students are supposed to be distanced.  How do they work closely together in lab?  Can we share equipment within the class.  Can we share from one class to the next?  I am planning to tap into more virtual lab resources this year for both the home and in person groups.  This would include demonstration style where we collect data and observe phenomena together, simulations, video recorded events with measurement taken through video analysis.  The lab question is really applicable to all, not just the home group.

 

[El Floppo]

if you start the year 100% remote, there will be quarterly time slots for when you can change to the hybrid plan (to give them time to figure out the spacing/timing of more/less students live).y prediction

- if you start the year in the hybrid plan, you can opt out for 100% remote any time you like.

I suspect there is little chance that these will be in synch enough to seamlessly transition from one to the other.  People will be dealing with gaps and discrepancies is my prediction, but maybe (hopefully) it won't be too cumbersome.

I'm sure you're thinking about this in a much more complete way, but to me it makes sense...they need to be hugely mindful of numbers in the classroom and school to meet spacing requirements. Once the numbers are determined, decreasing them provides no risk, so opting out is acceptable to do at any time. Increasing them obviously means rejiggering the calculus for each class as well as for the entire school- needs time to sort out, so has to happen within set time periods to all the administration to make those calculations and adjustments. Of course, if too many opt back in, not exactly sure how they make that work.

 

[bigbottom]

Well, if we don't get shut down due to numbers surging again, our district has rolled out their plan.  They are presenting families with a choice and asking them to commit to either being at home or in person.  My comments that follow here are for grades 6-12. I have not looked at the details for younger levels yet.  The folks at home are going to follow a schedule just as if they were in the building.  Classes will essentially be live streamed via a web cam so kids at home can follow along.  Google Classroom will be utilized to distribute materials and organize resources (GC is not new for us).  We will be utilizing a block schedule so that only 4 classes (90 min) will meet each day which will lesson class changes.  Folks at home will be watching whatever is going on in the classroom.   In a little twist of WTF, those going in-person will be social distanced as best as possible.  Part of that plan will limit the number of students in the classroom to no more than 20.  If a class has more than 20, some students will be sent to an alternate location in the building to essentially have the same experience as those at home.  They will rotate which students get sent to an alternate location each day.  

Here is their vision of what a socially distance classroom will look like at the lower levels          I am not sure what the plan will be for my room where the lab tables typically accommodate 2 students.

As I posted earlier in this thread, I believe instruction is going to be much less effective than it could be by trying to serve both formats during the same class session.  It certainly does not fit my teaching style or subject matter very well, but this decision is out of my control.  I guess it's time to roll up the sleeves and do the best I can.  If I was a student at home watching 6 hours of classes (4 x 90 min) per day through a web cam, I think I would want to slit my wrists.  At least our survey results indicated 85% would send their kids to school, although this was from May when it looked like we had things heading in a positive direction.

This is a good reminder that we as parents need to be supportive of our kids’ teachers in the fall. As challenging as it is for our children, it’s even more challenging for the teachers who will be expending great effort to do their best by our kids. We will all need remain flexible and patient. Many thanks to you and all the dedicated teachers for what you do. 

 

[Galileo]

I'm sure you're thinking about this in a much more complete way, but to me it makes sense...they need to be hugely mindful of numbers in the classroom and school to meet spacing requirements. Once the numbers are determined, decreasing them provides no risk, so opting out is acceptable to do at any time. Increasing them obviously means rejiggering the calculus for each class as well as for the entire school- needs time to sort out, so has to happen within set time periods to all the administration to make those calculations and adjustments. Of course, if too many opt back in, not exactly sure how they make that work.

I was thinking of it much more along the lines of curriculum rather than student numbers.  I was thinking the classes wouldn't be able to cover the same material at the same pace.  Thus switching from one to the other might leave a student behind (or ahead of) the new group.  That won't happen if the classes are set up like our school has decided to do with the home crowd simply tapping into the same in person classroom remotely.  I don't like this arrangement for other reasons, but it would keep the groups together in terms of curriculum pacing.

 

[El Floppo]

I was thinking of it much more along the lines of curriculum rather than student numbers.  I was thinking the classes wouldn't be able to cover the same material at the same pace.  Thus switching from one to the other might leave a student behind (or ahead of) the new group.  That won't happen if the classes are set up like our school has decided to do with the home crowd simply tapping into the same in person classroom remotely.  I don't like this arrangement for other reasons, but it would keep the groups together in terms of curriculum pacing.

Like I said...you're thinking about this in a more complete way. with 1mil kids in NYC public schools, it's more a numbers game than anything else right now I think. I'm hoping my daughter's elementary school can handle the curriculum part. Each class has 32 kids and 1 teacher which is going to out a huge strain into that teacher, unless they add seperate remote teachers, which immediately adds the curriculum wrinkles you raised. Thanks for the input and reply.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Just got the guidelines from our school (private K-12), just to give you an idea of what some are doing:


  Hide contents
A Versatile Campus Redesign
We have reimagined our facilities to protect those entrusted to us:

• ● Removed 32-year-old carpet in lower grade rooms and replaced it
  
• with tile planking
  
• ● Purchased portable desk shields for each student
  
• ● Employed advanced sanitation methods (aerosol applicators for
  
• dispensing disinfectant over large areas)
  
• ● Created plan for social distancing/pods in all classrooms
  
• ● Built outdoor hand-washing stations
  
• ● Purchased touchless thermometers for each class/athletic team
  

Hybrid Education: You Choose
Need to quarantine? Immunocompromised? We have a plan for you.
We will provide these methods of instruction:

• ● Online instruction in Phase 0 and the option of online or face-to-face (FTF) instruction in Phases 1, 2, and 3.
  
• ● Virtual classrooms for students who require distance learning for any reason.
  
• ● One-to-one devices for all students K-12 and Google Classroom platform for all instruction in PreK-12.
  

What Students Will Need Every Day

• ● Refillable water bottle
  
• ● TWO masks for all students PreK-12
  
• ● school-provided Chromebook and charger
  

How We Communicate with You
Parents’ partnership in checking these communication resources
frequently is essential to the success of this plan:

• ● Google Classroom will be the primary method of communicating classroom-related information. All assignments/links/apps will be bookmarked in one easy site for students and parents to use. Parents will receive an invitation to join their child’s Google Classrooms and must accept to receive updates.
  
• ● Email communications will provide general school information.
  
• ● Our COVID-19 Response webpage will be updated with changes.
  
• ● Text messaging will be used in case of emergency.
  

What If: COVID Protocols
A Brief Overview: Students/Teachers who are exposed to COVID-19 will
be asked to quarantine. Exposure is considered being within six feet of
an infected individual for more than 15 minutes. Students/teachers who
test positive will be asked to quarantine 14 days and test negative before
returning. A more detailed protocol will be released separately.

How We Protect Our People
Our Students and Staff
● Masks in transition mandatory (arrivals, departures and halls)
● Masks urged in grades 3-12 by Governor/LDH
● Portable individual desk shields in class
● Handwashing stations
● Cohort & pod groups, modified schedules and class sizes
● Increased sanitation
● Temperature checks
● Hand sanitizer in all areas
● Teacher masking when social distancing not feasible
Visitors
● All visitors to the front office will be required to wear a mask.
● To protect all students and staff from unnecessary exposure, no
parents/visitors will be allowed into any building past the front office .

The Daily Schedule: An Overview
Arrival at School (Phases 1-3): Students with masks will be met at their drop-off/entry point for a quick touchless temperature check. A staff member will walk Lower Elementary and PreK students to their classrooms.

During the School Day: Outdoor hand-washing stations will be used. Students will have numerous opportunities for outdoor education. Masks worn in halls/during class changes. Field trips and visitors to campus are not allowed while in Phases 1-3. Library will be available for check-outs only in Phase 1-2.

Lunch (Phases 1-3): Cafeteria will provide takeout-packaged meals, or students may bring lunch from home. No lunches can be delivered or dropped off during the day. A student without lunch will be given/charged for a takeout lunch from the cafeteria.

Assemblies will be streamed to classrooms. Lockers will not be used this fall. After School Care will not be provided in Phase 1.

The Pandemic Phases: What They Mean for US
Phase -- Time Frame  --- Educational Delivery Method(s)
Phase Zero -- 28 days (State emergency stay-at-home order) --- Distance learning for all parties
Phase One -- 28 days ---FTF - 1:10 staff-student ratio and/or distance learning.
Phase Two -- 28 days --- FTF - 1:25 staff-student ratio and/or distance learning
Phase Three -- 28 days --- FTF - normal class size and/or distance learning.
I have a few questions, such as the exposure rules that some of you brought up already in this thread, but overall pretty solid planning, IMO. I'm cautiously optimistic. 

Greeting Col NRJ, I appreciate you sharing this. 

I think I would want to try home schooling but I share your optimism. Doubt a lot of schools or districts will be this vigilant where I am in South Florida. Until we are not in State Of Emergency like we are at the moment, then maybe we can discuss busing students to school. Right now, it's hard to even think about, just sharing. 

 

[Don't Toews Me]

This link talked a bit about schools and summarizes some key info: https://preventepidemics.org/covid19/science/weekly-science-review/june-20-26-2020/

 

[The Gator]

For the teachers to appreciate:

sending kids to school in masks - how its really going to work

 

[Galileo]

Lessons to be learned.  Schools can put forth the best of plans and protocols, but all it takes is one mistake, poor choice, or act of irresponsibility to jeopardize another's life.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Lessons to be learned.  Schools can put forth the best of plans and protocols, but all it takes is one mistake, poor choice, or act of irresponsibility to jeopardize another's life.

And that’s what’s gonna happen. People aren’t going to want to miss work etc and they’re going to send their kid to school even if they shouldn’t be there.

 

[acarey50]

As encouraging as that German study was that we posted on Monday/Tuesday, and the results of an Irish study that I read about (though the number of cases tracked was only 3), this large scale study out of South Korea is a little more sobering on the transmission of the virus through kids. Essentially kids 10 and younger spread at about half the rate of adults, but kids aged 10-19 spread it at the same rate as adults, actually at a slightly higher rate than adults (though the study notes some caveats about this) 

Article pasted for those not wanting to click through to it:

Spoiler

In the heated debate over reopening schools, one burning question has been whether and how efficiently children can spread the virus to others.

A large new study from South Korea offers an answer: Children younger than 10 transmit to others much less often than adults do, but the risk is not zero. And those between the ages of 10 and 19 can spread the virus at least as well as adults do.

The findings suggest that as schools reopen, communities will see clusters of infection take root that include children of all ages, several experts cautioned.

“I fear that there has been this sense that kids just won’t get infected or don’t get infected in the same way as adults and that, therefore, they’re almost like a bubbled population,” said Michael Osterholm, an infectious diseases expert at the University of Minnesota.

“There will be transmission,” Dr. Osterholm said. “What we have to do is accept that now and include that in our plans.”

Several studies from Europe and Asia have suggested that young children are less likely to get infected and to spread the virus. But most of those studies were small and flawed, said Dr. Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute.

The new study “is very carefully done, it’s systematic and looks at a very large population,” Dr. Jha said. “It’s one of the best studies we’ve had to date on this issue.”

Other experts also praised the scale and rigor of the analysis. South Korean researchers identified 5,706 people who were the first to report Covid-19 symptoms in their households between Jan. 20 and March 27, when schools were closed, and then traced the 59,073 contacts of these “index cases.” They tested all of the household contacts of each patient, regardless of symptoms, but only tested symptomatic contacts outside the household.

The first person in a household to develop symptoms is not necessarily the first to have been infected, and the researchers acknowledged this limitation. Children are also less likely than adults to show symptoms, so the study may have underestimated the number of children who set off the chain of transmission within their households.

Still, experts said the approach was reasonable. “It is also from a place with great contact tracing, done at the point interventions were being put in place,” said Bill Hanage, an epidemiologist at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health.

Children under 10 were roughly half as likely as adults to spread the virus to others, consistent with other studies. That may be because children generally exhale less air — and therefore less virus-laden air — or because they exhale that air closer to the ground, making it less likely that adults would breathe it in.

Even so, the number of new infections seeded by children may rise when schools reopen, the study authors cautioned. “Young children may show higher attack rates when the school closure ends, contributing to community transmission of Covid-19,” they wrote. Other studies have also suggested that the large number of contacts for schoolchildren, who interact with dozens of others for a good part of the day, may cancel out their smaller risk of infecting others.

The researchers traced the contacts only of children who felt ill, so it’s still unclear how efficiently asymptomatic children spread the virus, said Caitlin Rivers, an epidemiologist at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

“I think it was always going to be the case that symptomatic children are infectious,” she said. “The questions about the role of children are more around whether children who don’t have symptoms are infectious.”

Dr. Rivers was a member of a scientific panel that on Wednesday recommended reopening schools wherever possible for disabled children and for those in elementary schools, because those groups have the most trouble learning online. She said the new study does not alter that recommendation.

[Like the Science Times page on Facebook. | Sign up for the Science Times newsletter.]

The study is more worrisome for children in middle and high school. This group was even more likely to infect others than adults were, the study found. But some experts said that finding may be a fluke or may stem from the children’s behaviors.

These older children are frequently as big as adults, and yet may have some of the same unhygienic habits as young children do. They may also have been more likely than the younger children to socialize with their peers within the high-rise complexes in South Korea.

“We can speculate all day about this, but we just don’t know,” Dr. Osterholm said. “The bottom line message is: There’s going to be transmission.”

He and other experts said schools will need to prepare for infections to pop up. Apart from implementing physical distancing, hand hygiene and masks, schools should also decide when and how to test students and staff — including, for example, bus drivers — when and how long to require people to quarantine, and when to decide to close and reopen schools.

But they face a monumental challenge because the evidence on transmission within schools has been far from conclusive so far, experts said. Some countries like Denmark and Finland have successfully reopened schools, but others, like China, Israel and South Korea, have had to close them down again.

“People, depending on their ideology on school opening, are choosing which evidence to present — and that needs to be avoided,” said Jeffrey Shaman, an epidemiologist at Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health in New York.

Although the new study does not offer definitive answers, he said, it does indicate that schools can increase virus levels within a community.

“So long as children are not just a complete dead end — incapable of passing the virus on, which does not seem to be the case — putting them together in schools, having them mix with teachers and other students will provide additional opportunities for the virus to move from person to person,” he said.

At the same time, Dr. Shaman said, it’s important for children not to miss out on critical years in education and socialization, and school districts have the unenviable task of choosing between those options: “It’s hard trying to find the right balance.”

 

[El Floppo]

As encouraging as that German study was that we posted on Monday/Tuesday, and the results of an Irish study that I read about (though the number of cases tracked was only 3), this large scale study out of South Korea is a little more sobering on the transmission of the virus through kids. Essentially kids 10 and younger spread at about half the rate of adults, but kids aged 10-19 spread it at the same rate as adults, actually at a slightly higher rate than adults (though the study notes some caveats about this) 

Article pasted for those not wanting to click through to it:

Spoiler

In the heated debate over reopening schools, one burning question has been whether and how efficiently children can spread the virus to others.

A large new study from South Korea offers an answer: Children younger than 10 transmit to others much less often than adults do, but the risk is not zero. And those between the ages of 10 and 19 can spread the virus at least as well as adults do.

The findings suggest that as schools reopen, communities will see clusters of infection take root that include children of all ages, several experts cautioned.

“I fear that there has been this sense that kids just won’t get infected or don’t get infected in the same way as adults and that, therefore, they’re almost like a bubbled population,” said Michael Osterholm, an infectious diseases expert at the University of Minnesota.

“There will be transmission,” Dr. Osterholm said. “What we have to do is accept that now and include that in our plans.”

Several studies from Europe and Asia have suggested that young children are less likely to get infected and to spread the virus. But most of those studies were small and flawed, said Dr. Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute.

The new study “is very carefully done, it’s systematic and looks at a very large population,” Dr. Jha said. “It’s one of the best studies we’ve had to date on this issue.”

Other experts also praised the scale and rigor of the analysis. South Korean researchers identified 5,706 people who were the first to report Covid-19 symptoms in their households between Jan. 20 and March 27, when schools were closed, and then traced the 59,073 contacts of these “index cases.” They tested all of the household contacts of each patient, regardless of symptoms, but only tested symptomatic contacts outside the household.

The first person in a household to develop symptoms is not necessarily the first to have been infected, and the researchers acknowledged this limitation. Children are also less likely than adults to show symptoms, so the study may have underestimated the number of children who set off the chain of transmission within their households.

Still, experts said the approach was reasonable. “It is also from a place with great contact tracing, done at the point interventions were being put in place,” said Bill Hanage, an epidemiologist at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health.

Children under 10 were roughly half as likely as adults to spread the virus to others, consistent with other studies. That may be because children generally exhale less air — and therefore less virus-laden air — or because they exhale that air closer to the ground, making it less likely that adults would breathe it in.

Even so, the number of new infections seeded by children may rise when schools reopen, the study authors cautioned. “Young children may show higher attack rates when the school closure ends, contributing to community transmission of Covid-19,” they wrote. Other studies have also suggested that the large number of contacts for schoolchildren, who interact with dozens of others for a good part of the day, may cancel out their smaller risk of infecting others.

The researchers traced the contacts only of children who felt ill, so it’s still unclear how efficiently asymptomatic children spread the virus, said Caitlin Rivers, an epidemiologist at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

“I think it was always going to be the case that symptomatic children are infectious,” she said. “The questions about the role of children are more around whether children who don’t have symptoms are infectious.”

Dr. Rivers was a member of a scientific panel that on Wednesday recommended reopening schools wherever possible for disabled children and for those in elementary schools, because those groups have the most trouble learning online. She said the new study does not alter that recommendation.

[Like the Science Times page on Facebook. | Sign up for the Science Times newsletter.]

The study is more worrisome for children in middle and high school. This group was even more likely to infect others than adults were, the study found. But some experts said that finding may be a fluke or may stem from the children’s behaviors.

These older children are frequently as big as adults, and yet may have some of the same unhygienic habits as young children do. They may also have been more likely than the younger children to socialize with their peers within the high-rise complexes in South Korea.

“We can speculate all day about this, but we just don’t know,” Dr. Osterholm said. “The bottom line message is: There’s going to be transmission.”

He and other experts said schools will need to prepare for infections to pop up. Apart from implementing physical distancing, hand hygiene and masks, schools should also decide when and how to test students and staff — including, for example, bus drivers — when and how long to require people to quarantine, and when to decide to close and reopen schools.

But they face a monumental challenge because the evidence on transmission within schools has been far from conclusive so far, experts said. Some countries like Denmark and Finland have successfully reopened schools, but others, like China, Israel and South Korea, have had to close them down again.

“People, depending on their ideology on school opening, are choosing which evidence to present — and that needs to be avoided,” said Jeffrey Shaman, an epidemiologist at Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health in New York.

Although the new study does not offer definitive answers, he said, it does indicate that schools can increase virus levels within a community.

“So long as children are not just a complete dead end — incapable of passing the virus on, which does not seem to be the case — putting them together in schools, having them mix with teachers and other students will provide additional opportunities for the virus to move from person to person,” he said.

At the same time, Dr. Shaman said, it’s important for children not to miss out on critical years in education and socialization, and school districts have the unenviable task of choosing between those options: “It’s hard trying to find the right balance.”

Was coming in to post the same.

 

[CR69]

We’ve already decided that regardless of what our district has planned, our 7 year old is not going to school. If that means switching to home schooling for a year or two then so be it. We also have the benefit of my wife being a SAHM and me working from home though. I feel for the parents who have the same concerns we do but don’t have the ability to make the same choice. 

 

[Ilov80s]

Lessons to be learned.  Schools can put forth the best of plans and protocols, but all it takes is one mistake, poor choice, or act of irresponsibility to jeopardize another's life.

That is true everywhere- of course the scale of impact may much larger at a school. In March and April, my wife had warehouse workers coming to work and then through conversation mentioning to employees that their live-in girlfriend was really sick or that they had a fever and headache over the weekend. Then people were calling her to report them. It was a bit of a mess. 

 

[Ilov80s]

And that’s what’s gonna happen. People aren’t going to want to miss work etc and they’re going to send their kid to school even if they shouldn’t be there.

I wonder if there will be arguments over masks and other precautions? Kids typically parrot what their parents say. When we did the end of the year locker clean out and book return, a couple kids came with their parents. We asked everyone who entered to wear a mask and answer if they were feeling well and if they had traveled on a plane in the last 2 weeks. Two parents complied but complained at first saying it was "none of our business" and that "the government was trying to take control over everyone's lives" and made a point to to tell their kids that "they can't make us- this is a public school and they can't violate our rights."

 

[need2know]

Our schools just told us that all students must wear masks.   Man that's gonna be tough

 

[The Gator]

Our schools just told us that all students must wear masks.   Man that's gonna be tough

I am not sure what grades we are talking here, but masks seem to be the very least we can do to keep everyone - teachers, staff, students, families - safer.

 

[need2know]

I am not sure what grades we are talking here, but masks seem to be the very least we can do to keep everyone - teachers, staff, students, families - safer.

Elementary.   Good luck keeping first graders wearing a mask all day.  Hell they will be dropping it on the floor and then putting it back over their mouths.  Prob get sick from something else doing that.

 

[The Gator]

Elementary.   Good luck keeping first graders wearing a mask all day.  Hell they will be dropping it on the floor and then putting it back over their mouths.  Prob get sick from something else doing that.

I agree it will be a challenge.  But, we have faced, and overcome, far greater challenges.  And, simply because something is hard or inconvenient is not enough to simply give up or fail to try.

If we do it right, this will be a short-lived sacrifice, but one which reaps great benefits.

 

[RUSF18]

Elementary.   Good luck keeping first graders wearing a mask all day.  Hell they will be dropping it on the floor and then putting it back over their mouths.  Prob get sick from something else doing that.

My kid has been in school/camp the last two weeks where masks are required. We tried getting her to wear a mask when outside prior to it starting but she never wanted to. But seeing teachers and other kids wear them got her to wear one too. Does every kid wear them every moment of the day? Of course not but it's been working well.

If a bunch of 3 year olds can do it, older kids can do it too. But teachers/parents need to buy in as part of it.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

We’ve already decided that regardless of what our district has planned, our 7 year old is not going to school. If that means switching to home schooling for a year or two then so be it. We also have the benefit of my wife being a SAHM and me working from home though. I feel for the parents who have the same concerns we do but don’t have the ability to make the same choice. 

Ditto.  My kids are going into 7th grade.  We aren’t sending them.   Assuming the online option happens, they will do virtual for now.

My over/under for when the school gets shut down due to COVID infections is October 1st.

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

WELCOME!

 

[bushdocda]

Just got the official word that our school district is going virtual for first half of year.   Guess I’m relieved to have the news. Virtual approach will have to be more organized than the spring, ours was pretty bad. 

My wife is sending me RV rentals and all kinds of stuff we’re doing this fall while we’re working/schooling remote so she’s processing the news quickly. 

 

[B Maverick]

Recieved this from the Superintendant last Friday:

"I hope this message finds you well. As you may have heard today, California Governor Gavin Newsom, in partnership with the California Department of Public Health (CDPH), provided revised guidance and a detailed framework for reopening schools this fall. The Governor stated that, in order to reopen schools for in-person instruction, counties must be 14 consecutive days off the California Department of Public Health’s COVID-19 Monitoring List. As of today, July 17, 2020, Orange County is identified as one of the counties that does not meet the criteria to reopen schools with an in-person format.

Our committees have been working diligently the past several weeks on our school reopening plans. As shared in previous updates, we have worked hard to provide both an in-person as well as a full-time virtual/remote model for students, allowing each parent to make a decision that is in the best interest of their child(ren).  However, based upon this new information, all schools in Orange County, as well as all schools in 30+ other counties, are currently only permitted to provide a virtual/remote learning program for all students.  Please know that any virtual/remote program provided will be rigorous with increased live instruction and interaction between students and teachers.  It will not resemble the emergency distance learning program we provided last spring.  We have already secured a new on-line learning platform and management system to better equip students and teachers in a virtual learning environment.

That being said, it is important for us to keep in mind that our 2020-2021 school year start date is still six weeks away on Monday, August 31. We will closely monitor Orange County’s ability to meet these new requirements, as outlined by the state, for an eventual return to in-person instruction.  We remain committed to meeting the needs of our students, staff, families and community, given the current health scenarios and state directives. In alignment with the Governor’s announcement, we will continue crafting our return to school plans to comply with these new directives while keeping in mind potential forthcoming changes from the state and county.

Thank you again for your patience and support as we take time to digest these new state guidelines for schools and school districts, accordingly. Rest assured, we will send additional updates to families as more information about our plans become available."

With school not starting until Aug 31, the district is going to wait until Aug 7th (?) I think to make it all official, but it looks like virtual at least to start.  I am kind of relieved but also the new platform and actual instruction noted is encouraging.  We do go to a district in a wealthier neighborhood (ex wife works in the district, we don't actually live in it) so most of the families have the means to accommodate virtual learning.  And those that don't may be able to get the help they need to be able to go virtual.  

Now if the residents of Orange County, CA could get their heads out of their #### and take this seriously....  sorry for that.  Gets tiresome hearing that this will all magically disapear after the election.

 

[E-Z Glider]

If a bunch of 3 year olds can do it, older kids can do it too. But teachers/parents need to buy in as part of it.

Very similar to the general public and government leaders.  :(

 

[Grahamburn]

My kid has been in school/camp the last two weeks where masks are required. We tried getting her to wear a mask when outside prior to it starting but she never wanted to. But seeing teachers and other kids wear them got her to wear one too. Does every kid wear them every moment of the day? Of course not but it's been working well.

If a bunch of 3 year olds can do it, older kids can do it too. But teachers/parents need to buy in as part of it.

My clinics provide therapy for special needs children and we are requiring them to wear masks to attend in clinic sessions.  We aren't as big as a school by any means, but we have 50+ employees and multiple kids/parents coming through the clinic daily.  We returned to work May 1st and have had one case of COVID-19 from a staff member (who got it from her BF), and only one child has tested positive to my knowledge.  If kids with disabilities and my staff can wear them and work one on one providing direct contact treatment without incident for nearly 3 months now then the schools should be able to do it too.   

The issue?  The teachers' unions have all of the power, and they know they're going to be paid whether they teach in the schools or not.  Unfortunately the rest of us don't have that luxury.

National and local teachers unions on Monday filed a lawsuit seeking to block an order from Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) requiring schools to reopen in August despite a sustained surge in coronavirus cases in the state. 

The American Federation of Teachers and its local affiliate, the Florida Education Association (FEA), are alleging that an order requiring the resumption of in-person classes violates the state constitution's mandate on "safe" and "secure" public education.

The lawsuit, filed in state court in Miami, asks a judge to issue an injunction blocking DeSantis from going through with the statewide mandate, which the unions claim would "force millions of public school students and employees to report to brick and mortar schools that should remain closed during the resurgence of COVID-19 cases."

Public spending per student in Florida is $9k with roughly $6k of that spent on instruction.  Give me a portion of that money back on my tax return and then I'll gladly make arrangements to home school my child so the teachers can all stay home and be "safe."  

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

My clinics provide therapy for special needs children and we are requiring them to wear masks to attend in clinic sessions.  We aren't as big as a school by any means, but we have 50+ employees and multiple kids/parents coming through the clinic daily.  We returned to work May 1st and have had one case of COVID-19 from a staff member (who got it from her BF), and only one child has tested positive to my knowledge.  If kids with disabilities and my staff can wear them and work one on one providing direct contact treatment without incident for nearly 3 months now then the schools should be able to do it too.   

The issue?  The teachers' unions have all of the power, and they know they're going to be paid whether they teach in the schools or not.  Unfortunately the rest of us don't have that luxury.

Public spending per student in Florida is $9k with roughly $6k of that spent on instruction.  Give me a portion of that money back on my tax return and then I'll gladly make arrangements to home school my child so the teachers can all stay home and be "safe."  

From what I can tell in my area (Long Island), there were a few teachers that were concerned for their health and started to become vocal about it. Other teachers wanted to support those teachers, and then started to realize that outcome might not be so bad for them either. I've concluded therefore in-person school will not begin in the fall, despite having very low hospitalizations and an infection rate of roughly 1% with ample testing being conducted.

 

[Grahamburn]

From what I can tell in my area (Long Island), there were a few teachers that were concerned for their health and started to become vocal about it. Other teachers wanted to support those teachers, and then started to realize that outcome might not be so bad for them either. I've concluded therefore in-person school will not begin in the fall, despite having very low hospitalizations and an infection rate of roughly 1% with ample testing being conducted.

Of course.  I don't blame anyone for being concerned for their health right now and that's their decision to make.  However, their decision not to teach in the school, which is what they are compensated for, is going to affect a lot of children and families in a negative way.  There should be a significant decrease in their salaries if they refuse to return or only want to teach virtually, and those dollars should be used to support the families who rely on the school year for their own financial well being.  

Members of my staff did not return to work.  They obviously aren't being compensated and rightfully so.  I've offered a telehealth option for staff who wants to stay home at a reduced salary as their production will not be equivalent to someone who is in clinic. 

Teachers should be treated the exact same way.  They fight constantly for their benefits and wages.  To be treated as an "essential" profession.  They can't have it both ways.  Get to work just like the rest of us have to.

 

[belljr]

We just got the green light for high risk sports to start

 

[acarey50]

CIF has pushed all sports back to January - essentially they have moved to a 2 season schedule (as opposed to the normal 3 season schedule). Assuming California can get the virus under control, sports that are now in the "Fall" season can begin practicing in mid-December with first games starting in January - state playoffs would end in mid-April. For the "Spring" sports, practices would begin in February with first games allowed in early March. State playoffs would end in mid-June.

They shuffled sports around a bit, so for example, previously girls volleyball was a fall sport and boys volleyball was a spring sport - now both will be "fall" sports. For football, they set the planned schedule up so that teams could still play 10 games, but it eliminated what was referred to as a "Week 0" so teams that want 10 games will no longer be able to fit in a bye week. Right now teams are scrambling to adjust their schedules, especially some of the teams that played out of state opponents (ie Mater Dei, St. John Bosco) as with each state doing their own thing and abiding by California rule, they can't play games in say September/October against teams from states opening up right away.

The other thing of interest is that the guidelines were set by CIF for the state com[petitions, each of the individual sections were allowed to make their own schedule - most s ofar have pretty much gone into alignment with the state, the one outlier so far is the Northern Section (essentially the area from the border with Oregon down towards north of Sacramento), which has said that they intend to run fall sports as normal. One thing that this does though, from my understanding, is mean that the schools in their section would not be eligible for the state playoffs.

Still developing as now that there is guidance on sports, each section, league and school is working out the details of what that schedule will look like as far as allocation of resources, gym space and field space, not to mention some potential difficulties for multi-sport coaches (many schools for example have the same coach for boys and girls volleyball).

The other interesting twist is that CIF suspended the rule that prevented high school athletes from participating in club sports during the high school season. So now you will have kids not only having to choose between high school sports (ie those that played football and volleyball previously will have to choose one this season), but now will be competing with any club team they may also be on (ie choose between high school soccer team and your club soccer team or high school basketball team and your AAU team).

 

[parasaurolophus]

@CletiusMaximus looks like your school's pretty well thought out plan got shut down by the city huh? 

 

[B Maverick]

CIF has pushed all sports back to January - essentially they have moved to a 2 season schedule (as opposed to the normal 3 season schedule). Assuming California can get the virus under control, sports that are now in the "Fall" season can begin practicing in mid-December with first games starting in January - state playoffs would end in mid-April. For the "Spring" sports, practices would begin in February with first games allowed in early March. State playoffs would end in mid-June.

They shuffled sports around a bit, so for example, previously girls volleyball was a fall sport and boys volleyball was a spring sport - now both will be "fall" sports. For football, they set the planned schedule up so that teams could still play 10 games, but it eliminated what was referred to as a "Week 0" so teams that want 10 games will no longer be able to fit in a bye week. Right now teams are scrambling to adjust their schedules, especially some of the teams that played out of state opponents (ie Mater Dei, St. John Bosco) as with each state doing their own thing and abiding by California rule, they can't play games in say September/October against teams from states opening up right away.

The other thing of interest is that the guidelines were set by CIF for the state com[petitions, each of the individual sections were allowed to make their own schedule - most s ofar have pretty much gone into alignment with the state, the one outlier so far is the Northern Section (essentially the area from the border with Oregon down towards north of Sacramento), which has said that they intend to run fall sports as normal. One thing that this does though, from my understanding, is mean that the schools in their section would not be eligible for the state playoffs.

Still developing as now that there is guidance on sports, each section, league and school is working out the details of what that schedule will look like as far as allocation of resources, gym space and field space, not to mention some potential difficulties for multi-sport coaches (many schools for example have the same coach for boys and girls volleyball).

The other interesting twist is that CIF suspended the rule that prevented high school athletes from participating in club sports during the high school season. So now you will have kids not only having to choose between high school sports (ie those that played football and volleyball previously will have to choose one this season), but now will be competing with any club team they may also be on (ie choose between high school soccer team and your club soccer team or high school basketball team and your AAU team).

Interesting.  When I played, we had several of the football players (fall sport) playing soccer (winter sport) and either playing Baseball (spring sport).  Not only will you have to choose between club and HS, but you may have to choose 1 sport over the other.

 

[acarey50]

Interesting.  When I played, we had several of the football players (fall sport) playing soccer (winter sport) and either playing Baseball (spring sport).  Not only will you have to choose between club and HS, but you may have to choose 1 sport over the other.

Absolutely. There has always been some overlap (ie football playoffs could go into early December, basketball starts in November, basketball ends in late March, baseball starts in February) but now there is still overlap plus more sports running the same season. It's going to be difficult for some sports that already struggled to get enough players if they are now competing with the sport those kids also played in another season.

The breakdown by season is:

FALL SPORTS

Boys and Girls cross country

Field hockey

Football (11-man and 8-man)

Gymnastics

Traditional Competitive Cheer

Boys and Girls Volleyball

Boys and Girls water polo

SPRING SPORTS

Badminton

Baseball

Boys and Girls basketball

Competitive Sport Cheer

Boys and Girls lacrosse

Boys and Girls soccer

Softball

Boys and Girls swimming and diving

Boys and Girls tennis

Boys and Girls track and field

Boys and Girls wrestling

The main overlaps created, at least on the boys side, are Football/Volleyball in Fall and the Basketball/Baseball and Soccer/Lacrosse in Spring. Obviously I'm sure there are others, but from the local high schools, those were the most common combos of multi-sport athletes that now have sports in the same season that I see.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

@CletiusMaximus looks like your school's pretty well thought out plan got shut down by the city huh? 

Yes.  It was a bit of a bombshell announced on Friday.  I understand the decision, but the way the City handled it was very poor.  It seems the admin in the public school system knew this was coming as of June 25, but the more formal announcement (if you can call it that) wasn't widely known until last Friday.  Lots of local private schools put a ton of time and energy into formulating their plans during those few weeks.  However, both my kids' schools had three track plans - fully remote, hybrid and everyone back - so its not all for nothing.  They will all start fully remote, and hopefully we'll be in a position to move to hybrid sometime later this year or early next.

My job these next couple weeks is to get my daughter a chromebook.

Sports are another thing.  My son is going to volleyball tryouts this week.  He knows it is unlikely there will be a season, but has put so much into this I don't have the heart to tell him he can't go.

 

[The Z Machine]

Baltimore City schools will be 100% virtual to start the year (week after labor day).  Honestly, I'm not sure how my wife and I will balance the demands of two full time jobs, trying to get an education for our children, and reduce the risk of my mother in law contracting COVID as much as possible.  When the kids were in school in the spring, it seemed that my wife and I could each only put in max 6 hours per day for work.  And even with that reduced output, we were at the stress limit all the time.

 

[The Gator]

My job these next couple weeks is to get my daughter a chromebook.

How old is your daughter?

I ask because we got our 7th grader a chromebook a year ago, but it was not ideal for zoom this past spring.  Now she will be in 9th grade this fall, and we went ahead and got her a macbook air, which should have sufficient computing power to get her through highschool - while the chromebook almost certainly would not have been enough computer.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Yes.  It was a bit of a bombshell announced on Friday.  I understand the decision, but the way the City handled it was very poor.  It seems the admin in the public school system knew this was coming as of June 25, but the more formal announcement (if you can call it that) wasn't widely known until last Friday.  Lots of local private schools put a ton of time and energy into formulating their plans during those few weeks.  However, both my kids' schools had three track plans - fully remote, hybrid and everyone back - so its not all for nothing.  They will all start fully remote, and hopefully we'll be in a position to move to hybrid sometime later this year or early next.

My job these next couple weeks is to get my daughter a chromebook.

Sports are another thing.  My son is going to volleyball tryouts this week.  He knows it is unlikely there will be a season, but has put so much into this I don't have the heart to tell him he can't go.

I suspect that Evers will make it statewide. 

 

[need2know]

Baltimore City schools will be 100% virtual to start the year (week after labor day).  Honestly, I'm not sure how my wife and I will balance the demands of two full time jobs, trying to get an education for our children, and reduce the risk of my mother in law contracting COVID as much as possible.  When the kids were in school in the spring, it seemed that my wife and I could each only put in max 6 hours per day for work.  And even with that reduced output, we were at the stress limit all the time.

dont feel bad.  its impossible.  do what you can.   sounds like you did more than we did.  We had so little time to do his school stuff along with our work.  

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I suspect that Evers will make it statewide. 

It's possible, but who knows how the opposition will react?  At least in Milwaukee, the strong suspicion is that the City felt it had to protect the public schools from flight to the privates.

 

[One]

Yes.  It was a bit of a bombshell announced on Friday.  I understand the decision, but the way the City handled it was very poor.  It seems the admin in the public school system knew this was coming as of June 25, but the more formal announcement (if you can call it that) wasn't widely known until last Friday.  Lots of local private schools put a ton of time and energy into formulating their plans during those few weeks.  However, both my kids' schools had three track plans - fully remote, hybrid and everyone back - so its not all for nothing.  They will all start fully remote, and hopefully we'll be in a position to move to hybrid sometime later this year or early next.

My job these next couple weeks is to get my daughter a chromebook.

Sports are another thing.  My son is going to volleyball tryouts this week.  He knows it is unlikely there will be a season, but has put so much into this I don't have the heart to tell him he can't go.

Our small private school was granted an exemption from the local department of health the day before Newsom’s announcement here in California.  
 

They’re now working on an updated exemption since the signed mandate left room for it.  None of the parents are holding their breaths,  but I’ll let you know if it happens. 

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Our school district just announced no in-person learning until January 29, 2021 at the earliest.

 

[Apple Jack]

Our school district just announced no in-person learning until January 29, 2021 at the earliest.

MoCo?

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

MoCo?

Yup.

 

[The Gator]

Our school district just announced no in-person learning until January 29, 2021 at the earliest.

Wow. 
 

I am expecting remote learning to start the year, but some form of in-person learning by October or so. 
 

Calling off the first semester is a bold decision. (But there is value in the certainty as opposed to constant change.)

 

[culdeus]

Texas is a complete mess.  Football is so important to the small towns.  That looks very unlikely to go at all.  

I'm predicting no in person school until 2021 at this rate.  There simply is no workable plan.  

 

[need2know]

I think they are about to cancel in person school in my state too.   Wont make any difference 

 

[need2know]

So disappointed in alot of things ugh

 

[Gr00vus]

Seems some in here have conflated school with daycare and teachers with nannies.