Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
@Hou gimme..
17 rec for 350 yds and 6 TDs
3 punt returns for 179 yds and 4 TDs
17 rec for 350 yds and 6 TDs
3 punt returns for 179 yds and 4 TDs
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Denarius Moore - CIncinnatti Bengals (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Raiderfan32904
- Start date
dancingbones
Footballguy
Starting him over TB Mike Williams, OAK Ford & Gaffney. He looks like a gamer from what I've seen. That run a couple weeks ago with the dive for the end zone = the type of guy I want in my lineup.
I think this is mostly what happened -- plus Ford not quite yet 100 percent -- BB wasn't going to let the Raiders bust big plays. IF DHB and Boss catch some 25-30 yard plays, they're not going to take it to the house like Moore and Ford might. So he kept the ball out of Ford and Moore's hands.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Moore is the most talented but will have rookie moments.DHB is the most favored by will have claw hands moments.Ford is the most explosive and currently underrated. He's a speed demon midget with ball skills, but not nearly as polished or natural of a WR as Moore.Everyone else is fodder, except maybe Hagan/Boss to small degree, but nothing worth getting excited about.'shuke said:
massraider
Footballguy
Moore has played 4 games. Ever. You're already noticing the trend? Bit early for that, isn't it? By the way, if Moore has had average/subpar days since week 1, then he really has come a long way, hasn't he?I think there are a lot of people that expect to much, and have unrealistic goals. I am not worried about his snaps, and the hand-wringing about how often he is on the field. This isn't a guy that is going to get 10 targets a game. Best you can hope for I think (on a somewhat consistent basis) is 4 catches, and hopefully he springs for a big play. If people are angry because he's not getting 90% of the snaps, and won't catch 7 balls, they aren't dealing from a position of reality. Can he catch 7 balls? Sure. but I don't think big PPR numbers were ever a possibility. The Raiders are about as run-first a team as there is in the NFL, there are only so many targets in the passing game. I doubt he'll ever be a guy I would rank as a rock solid WR3 this year. For most, he was a waiver wire guy, or 5th or 6th WR. i don't see how anyone can complain about his production for that investment, let alone have some sort of 'ha ha, he only scored one TD last week' stance.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Just traded Moore and Bernard Scott for Santonio...
Off the bandwagon, hopefully it was the right move.
Off the bandwagon, hopefully it was the right move.
Neofight
Footballguy
Strange as this is to type, right now Moore has the better QB. It should only come back to bite you in a big way if Scott becomes the starter however. Just hope Benson doesn't serve that suspension.
firstseason1988
Footballguy
Personally, I do stink at this at times, there is no way I do this trade. The upside on Moore is so much higher than Santonio, it depends on the rest of your roster. But I truly think I would rather have Moore than Santanio. I just don't like Holmes' situation.
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Im with Mr. Powers. Holmes is a high WR2 and Moore will lack consistency and serve as more of a bye week filler/WR4. Bernard Scott? Meh. He's been a sleeper for about 5 years now. Still sleeping.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
I would definitely trade Moore for Scott and Holmes. Scott will be a RB1 for 3 weeks. Holmes's numbers should improve. He is a quality WR.
I own Moore in one league and he saved me one week. I have no plans on starting him anytime soon though. Ford is getting healthier every week. Murphy is coming back this week. Moore may be the better WR physically but he is not quite ready to be a full time starter over those guys.
I own Moore in one league and he saved me one week. I have no plans on starting him anytime soon though. Ford is getting healthier every week. Murphy is coming back this week. Moore may be the better WR physically but he is not quite ready to be a full time starter over those guys.
I own both Holmes and Moore...
Cenobite
Footballguy
I would trade Moore for Holmes straight up. Since nobody is offering such a trade in my league I hope I am wrong. The projections I have read on Moore are very TD dependent. If he does not score his stat. line will not be anywhere near his projected point total. Moore's floor is what has me concerned.
Dought Man
Footballguy
For those of you who are bullish on Moore this season..where you see him finishing among WR's? Top 15? Top 20? There are people here saying they'd rather have Moore over Julio Jones. AJ Green or Santonio Holmes. Wow..
I like Moore, but reading this from profootballfocus, I believe you should sell him sooner rather than later.
"On the other hand, at least one offense really is run-heavy in a way that offers a chilling portent when it comes to either consistency or upside. Denarius Moore, Jacoby Ford, and Darrius Heyward-Bey are all intriguing second half breakout candidates until you consider their peripherals. Only six NFL receivers with at least three targets have run routes on fewer than 50% of their snaps. Three of them are Raiders (Ford, Heyward-Bey, and Chaz Schilens).
Ford and Heyward-Bey are also being targeted on fewer than 10% of their snaps. In that category they have the company of such fantasy stars as Josh Morgan, Brian Robiskie, Bernard Berrian, and Mike Williams. Moore, who is clearly the Raider to own, has marginally better numbers but only because he’s often removed in obvious run situations. He has yet to play in more than 77% of the team snaps this season. Heyward-Bey has played at least 81% of the snaps in each of his three games. His continued presence caps Moore’s upside."
"On the other hand, at least one offense really is run-heavy in a way that offers a chilling portent when it comes to either consistency or upside. Denarius Moore, Jacoby Ford, and Darrius Heyward-Bey are all intriguing second half breakout candidates until you consider their peripherals. Only six NFL receivers with at least three targets have run routes on fewer than 50% of their snaps. Three of them are Raiders (Ford, Heyward-Bey, and Chaz Schilens).
Ford and Heyward-Bey are also being targeted on fewer than 10% of their snaps. In that category they have the company of such fantasy stars as Josh Morgan, Brian Robiskie, Bernard Berrian, and Mike Williams. Moore, who is clearly the Raider to own, has marginally better numbers but only because he’s often removed in obvious run situations. He has yet to play in more than 77% of the team snaps this season. Heyward-Bey has played at least 81% of the snaps in each of his three games. His continued presence caps Moore’s upside."
firstseason1988
Footballguy
I am just not sold on Santonio's situation with Sanchez and the Jets, but I do mess up at times, I'd truly rather have Moore.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Agreed. You cant call scoring a TD 3 weeks in a row a fluke, but his TDs the last 2 weeks were about as random as they come. His biggest weeks were when half of OAK's top 4 WRs were out, 1 of which still isnt back but will be this week or next. I still like Moore, but my team is weak right now and with 2 flexes, I have more confidence in Holmes as a weekly start than Moore. I cant hope a rookie on a run first team reaches his full potential.Id guess most Moore owners are holding because of said upside, but Id be surprised if his perceived value gets higher than it is now.
LawFitz
Footballguy
If he keeps making plays, especially TD plays, his value has a lot more upside than the Sanchize/Holmes connection you just sold for.Raiders have been a top ten offense now for the entire Hue Jackson tenure, including last season and the first four this season. How does that compare to the Jets, under Rexy in general, but especially this year? Jets just feel like a bummy offense to me. Bummy QB. Bummy running game. Santa is good, but I don't think you necessarily sold high. Closer to even. Higher floor for Santa, lower ceiling.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Raiders are a top ten offense because of their running game. Their passing O is 22nd, with Campbell getting off to what most would call a better than expected start in all liklihood, while the Jets pass game is 16th even after last weeks terrible game. I dont like Sanchez myself, but people are saying that Campbell is better than him in here yet Sanchez still has more yards and TDs than Campbell right now.69% of Moore's total yards and 75% of his receiving yards came in 1 game, and a game that DHB and Ford didnt play in to top it off. Obviously Moore has upside, but I this point I cant afford to hope he gets a garbage time TD or a reverse TD to make him a salvageable start each week.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Raiders are a top ten offense, (top 10 scoring offense to be clear) and whether it's because of the run or the pass, the point is they score touchdowns. That's pretty valuable in itself. If a team is successful enough running the ball and puts points on the board, defenses must adjust and expose themselves to the pass. Campbell has an arsenal of weapons and has shown he knows how to use them.Your comparison of Sanchez to Campbell is laughable. Campbell has 89.1 rating to Sanchez 75.9 Sanchez is a turnover machine and has been sacked 11 times already to Campbell’s 2 sacks. Sanchez has 6.8 YPA to Campbell’s 7.7 YPA. Any statistical way you want to slice it, Campbell is just better than Sanchez, and if you argue based on perception or gut feel, you’d just be wrong. Also, the cherry on top is Campbell beat Sanchez head to head. Enough with this ridiculous QB comparison, there is no way to reasonably win this argument. As to D. Moore, he was basically inactive the first game, and finally got his shot to contribute in game 2. Since then he’s gotten 3 TD’s in 3 weeks. I don’t subscribe to theories that these are fluke TD’s. He’s a playmaker and playmakers get the opportunities to make plays, period. People who have come in this thread to piss and moan about stats have quickly forgotten this kid’s incredible instincts and high-point skills. I don’t understand how anyone can try and tell a story of where this kid’s game is heading based on such a small sample size. He’s a stud rookie wideout on a high scoring offense, and has his head coach’s confidence moving forward. That’s all you need to know and focus on. HTH
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Youre right, OAK is a top 10 scoring offense, theyre 7th. NYJ is 11th. OAK is scoring 2.8 more pts/game than NYJ. Watch out!
Last time I checked, sacks, QBR, YPA, and head to head wins dont do jack for fantasy WR's outlook. Sanchez has more passing yards and 2 more passing TDs. Sanchez has 3 games with 2 or more TDs, Campbell has 1 game. Campbell has 2 games with under 160 passing yards, Sanchez has 1. If you prorate Campbells numbers to 16 games last year (he played 13), Sanchez threw more TDs and passing yards then him going back to last year as well (in his 2nd year nonetheless). I think those are a few statistical slices where Sanchez is better, and they are the ones that matter for Holmes vs. Moore in fantasy.
I said myself you cant call TDs a fluke a post or 2 back, or scoring 3 weeks in a row for that matter, but the manner he scored the last 2 weeks couldnt be anymore random. I dont doubt the talent or the potential, but he's still a rookie and I dont play dynasty. You also are a homer here and clearly are hoping he succeeds as much as possible.HTH
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Just dealt Moore, Kyle Rudolph, late 1st next year for Foster, Boss.
Did you feed him a 5th of Jack Daniels first or something?!firstseason1988
Footballguy
I would have traded him and that for that.Just dealt Moore, Kyle Rudolph, late 1st next year for Foster, Boss.
LawFitz
Footballguy
There are actually 3 criteria to judge here:1. Coaching - Rexy and Shanny Jr. vs Hue Jax and Al Saunders2. QB - Sanchize vs. Campbell3. Player - Santa vs. DMoeI'm not going to say you didn't acquire value for Denarius. But he has more upside than Santa, even this year. I like two of the three above for the rookie Raider. However, I can understand the safe route with Holmes as well. DMoe is after all still a rookie. And a Raider, lol!
nysportsfan
Footballguy
In one of my leagues I traded Moore and Mendenhall for MJD and MSW (dropped him for Hernandez who was just put on the WW). I'm holding in my other league, because I think he's going to be a decent wr3 all year. Love the way he goes and gets the ball on every catch.
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massraider
Footballguy
I agree, and I think you mentioned that you don't play dynasty. This to me, limits how excited people can get about him. I think Denarius fever should only be caught in keeper (4+ players kept) and dynasty. In redraft, he's a low-end #4. As it stands now. There's nothing that says he can't improve this year, and get more targets. Man, it's still really early. I may even be underrating him in redraft a bit. I have more confidence in Holmes as well, and I think most owners would, but not as much as the history of Holmes and the Raiders passing game would suggest. Sanchez is better than Campbell, but the gap isn't as wide as most would think. I'm not a Sanchez guy, and I see him miss some passes that I think good NFL QBs should make. I don't think he'll ever be a really good fantasy QB, which means I put a cap on what I think his WRs can do. And they have other guys they get involved, just enough to chip away at Holmes' production. I don't have faith in Sanchez to get the ball to the WRs consistently, which is why I was a Keller guy in August. Plus, they will rarely find themselves in a shootout pass-a-thon, or down by 21, so you don't see the 4th quarter garbage time yards that pad a lot of stats for some of these WRs (like Moore's late TD in the Pats game).
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Here's another thing that bugs me about that: after Moore's big game Hue got very animated in answering questions and said something like 'oh yeah we'll be getting him the ball more, this kid is special' or something like that. Well, week 2 = 8 targets, week 3 = 6 targets, and week 4 = 5 targets. That's going the wrong way.
agent orange
Footballguy
You still gotta somewhat believe in the talent of Moore at this point. If, come week 7 or 8 and all of the Raiders receivers are healthy, then maybe you lose a little faith. Until then, I feel fine plugging him in as my WR3.
cubbie5150
Footballguy
Coach speak...peeps still listen to that crap, & I fell for it too, since I started Moore week 4. A guy seriously seen as a primary weapon doesn't get only a handful of touches/targets each week. I really like Moore in the future, but not this year. I think he'll have another game when he goes off (like he did @ Buff), but good luck trying to figure when that will be. In redraft, I am holding, b/c of upside & to use for Megatron's & Steve Smith's week 9 BYE. He's a guy who'll likely need to be taken in the early mid-rounds in redrafts next year.
DHB is done.So I guess Al Davis won't be forcing DHB into the line up.
Well...not to revel in the death of another person, but my first thought when I heard the news was that at the very least, we will now get a pretty clear picture of what Moore is worth. The coaches will be able to play pretty much whomever they want to without fear of repercussions.DHB is done.So I guess Al Davis won't be forcing DHB into the line up.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
If Louis Murphy plays this week (he's questionable), theyll all be healthy this week
drfeelgood
Footballguy
He played well last weekend.DHB is done.So I guess Al Davis won't be forcing DHB into the line up.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Haven't you heard? He has no talent. Only Al thought he did.He played well last weekend.DHB is done.So I guess Al Davis won't be forcing DHB into the line up.
shnikies
Footballguy
In honor of Al, Hugh will not take DHB out of the starting lineup as long as he is the head coach. #jkHe played well last weekend.DHB is done.So I guess Al Davis won't be forcing DHB into the line up.
dharmapunk
Footballguy
I don't think it'll be this cut-n-dry, but I wouldn't be surprised to see his playing time shrink a bit, and at first boneheaded play, get cut drastically. Hue would be crazy to keep playing this fool. Denarius will only benefit, though it might take a few weeks.DHB is done.So I guess Al Davis won't be forcing DHB into the line up.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
C'mon, don't let his 5 catches for 85 yards and a TD in the first half of today's game make you think he can play. DHB is done!Haven't you heard? He has no talent. Only Al thought he did.He played well last weekend.DHB is done.So I guess Al Davis won't be forcing DHB into the line up.
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
I'm beginning to think all of the Raiders WRs are fools gold. DHB with a score, but I don't see him keeping it up. I think they're all droppable in redraft.
duaneok66
Footballguy
excellent post . . . I thought he was supposed to be an automatic start??
nysportsfan
Footballguy
He's been on the field a lot, looks to be covered by HOU best corner, Joseph.
Only targeted once, I believe.
Only targeted once, I believe.
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