Dolphin Players bullied Jonathan Martin, Richie Incognito SUSPENDED (1 Viewer)

[Lydia]

Do your bosses run around with whistles and tell you how to knock the crap out of people in other offices?

Sometimes?

 

[Doug B]

Well that's a shame. Ironic in a discussion about accountability that you chose to ignore half of it.

IMHO, there's too great a power** imbalance to invoke mutual accountability. I believe your entire take on the situation is fundamentally wrong because you've been treating it as an event betwen two parties with equal abilities to act and that risk comparable consequences.

** not physical power, but "clout", "stroke", and "the back-up of the organization".

 

[Neofight]

Is it OK to say they're both to blame? Incognito's a meat head and they didn't name Martin Big Weirdo for nothing.

...I saw the Rich Gannon piece, the ESPN talking heads but there were lots of guys on the radio today including Larry Fitz who did not speak highly of Martin, former LB for the Bills Darryl Talley was on 560 WQAM today and he blasted Jonathan Martin for doing this.

I feel like Incognito broke federal laws in terms of extortion. Fitzgerald was very open about how much he spent as a rookie, said you gotta pay a price to be a member of the club. So what will happen is now Goodell and a new crusade will break out in the NFL. "Crusade" was used religiously on talk radio all over today not just local but National and of course the National radio hosts have a much bigger spectrum and audience they reach.

...

Fitzgerald on the issue:

Once upon a time, Larry Fitzgerald was a rookie.

And just like all rookies, he was hazed some.

"I know that my rookie year I spent more than $15,000 on taking care of my veteran teammates," the receiver told ESPN Radio's Colin Cowherd Tuesday morning.

In fact, Fitzgerald said he did not have a problem with spending the money because he viewed it as his "duty" to do just that.

But what happened in Miami with the Dolphins, where rookies have allegedly been expected to serve as ATMs, seems to be a bit over the top.

And as for the abuse Richie Incognito allegedly sent Jonathan Martin's way?

"I don't think there's a place in the locker room, I don't think there's a place in society for that type of language and behavior," Fitzgerald said. "To treat somebody that you would consider a friend -- you know, the offensive linemen in the NFL are usually the most close-knit group out of any of the positions, I mean, they work together, all five of them have to work together for your team to have success offensively.

"To see that kind of dissension and disdain was saddening."

It's the type of thing Fitzgerald said a team's leaders need to step in and stop.

"When you have those kind of risks in your locker room it divides the team," he said. "Potentially, it can cause a cancer and your team can plummet."

http://arizonasports.com/40/1674817/Arizona-Cardinals-Larry-Fitzgerald-talks-IncognitoMartin-situation

 

[CGRdrJoe]

Martin is soft and smart. Incognito is hard and dumb. Incognito persists in going over the line and instead of immediately seeking help, Martin decides instead to seek revenge. The amount of blind agreement with and protection of Martin is fantastically pathetic. I love the way many of you use the 'innocent until proven guilty' as it suits your political leanings no matter how misguided, in much the same way you're using the 'NFL is a traditional workplace' argument. I mean, grow the hell up.

Once again we clear the road for the weak and chop the strong down at the knee and never look back. Pathetic.

I totally disagree with everything you say, but I have to admit - in a weird sort of way I like the the way you say it. In particular - "fantastically pathetic". I respect your passion.

I'll take that. You don't have to agree with me; I'm not selling and you're not buying. But there's a lot going on here that we don't know and a lot of conclusions being jumped to... Like Olympic triple-jumping.

this thread is pure gold. How do you feel about Jerry Sandusky, I mean let's face it all those people that said nothing for years must be the strong ones.

Martin decided to seek revenge? Do you seek revenge by leaving the team and checking yourself in to a hospital? I guess he should have just been the role model and beaten Incognito into a bloody pulp, that's what the up and coming generation should see in order to be strong and not weak. Hell, maybe he should have even brought a gun in and done the world a favor...

 

[JAMES!]

It's a blockhead on a football team being an idiot!

Schefter may be hamming it up, but you're wrong here. Everyone coming into this thread late has been wrong about the issue. This isn't, in the end, going to be about Martin & Incognito.

I'm saying it shouldn't be an issue at all. Two football careers are potentially over because a guy slammed down a tray of spaghetti instead of simply telling a teammate to back off. You can give it all the weight you want but there's no meat there. It's all water weight.

 

[Acrobat7]

where do all these posters come from? crawl back under your rocks please. thank you.

you have only 500 posts over 7 years - what rock did you crawl out from?

Quality =/= Quantity

You'll eventually discover that. Now stop bullying me.

 

[Doug B]

So Fitzgerald is talking out of both sides of his mouth?

Not really seeing where other NFL players necessarily have any credence on this matter. Their credibility is assumed, but should it be? Most were hazed, but I'll say that none were treated like the Dolphins' recent rookie classes.

Anyway, Fitzgerald received over $13 million his rookie season and had more guaranteed money coming in year 2. Maybe blowing a few hundred thou was no biggie to a #3 overall pick like himself. But it is to, say, a UDFA making league minimum.

 

[General Tso]

This kid obviously has mental health issues. Doesn't that come into it at all? Everybody is expecting rational behavior out of Martin when he obviously isn't in a normal mental state. Any isssues that he had could still be managed enough to start at the NFL level were clearly exacerbated by Incognito and more than likely the whole offensive line.

Take a guy that's clearly closer to the edge than the average bear and then torment him, embarrass him and ostracize him. Hell yeah he's gonna flip out.

So are you the type of guy to close ranks around the vulnerable or are you the type to dominate them? I think we can tell from various posts in this thread where people stand.

In my opinion the chicken #### in the scenario is the "strong" guy that picked on the weak. If martin couldn't or wouldn't stand up to Incognito, his teamates should have done it for him. Sounds like all they did was point and laugh. Pathetic.

Perfectly stated. Thank you. I was beginning to lose faith in humanity reading some of the posts in here. I'm from the same school as you, where the real men defend those who are either too weak to defend themselves, or too emotionally disturbed, whatever. I said earlier that hell has a special place reserved for bullies and those who support them.

 

[Doug B]

I'm saying it shouldn't be an issue at all. Two football careers are potentially over because a guy slammed down a tray of spaghetti instead of simply telling a teammate to back off.

That isn't why two careers are potentially over. This is.

 

[Dondante]

Well that's a shame. Ironic in a discussion about accountability that you chose to ignore half of it.

IMHO, there's too great a power** imbalance to invoke mutual accountability. I believe your entire take on the situation is fundamentally wrong because you've been treating it as an event betwen two parties with equal abilities to act and that risk comparable consequences.

** not physical power, but "clout", "stroke", and "the back-up of the organization".

Ok. IMHO, you're stretching this out to fit your argument. There's Incognito and there's Martin. Filling this hole with the 'culture of the locker room' is only going to result in too much dirt. We all know Martin could have at any time resisted the payments; he chose not to. Unless other evidence surfaces indicating there was another instigator, Incognito is the jerk, Martin is the victim. To that much I'll agree. But to say that Martin couldn't say 'no' is stretching the victim label a lot farther than I'm willing to accept.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Is it OK to say they're both to blame? Incognito's a meat head and they didn't name Martin Big Weirdo for nothing.

...I saw the Rich Gannon piece, the ESPN talking heads but there were lots of guys on the radio today including Larry Fitz who did not speak highly of Martin, former LB for the Bills Darryl Talley was on 560 WQAM today and he blasted Jonathan Martin for doing this.

I feel like Incognito broke federal laws in terms of extortion. Fitzgerald was very open about how much he spent as a rookie, said you gotta pay a price to be a member of the club. So what will happen is now Goodell and a new crusade will break out in the NFL. "Crusade" was used religiously on talk radio all over today not just local but National and of course the National radio hosts have a much bigger spectrum and audience they reach.

...

Fitzgerald on the issue:

Once upon a time, Larry Fitzgerald was a rookie.

And just like all rookies, he was hazed some.

"I know that my rookie year I spent more than $15,000 on taking care of my veteran teammates," the receiver told ESPN Radio's Colin Cowherd Tuesday morning.

In fact, Fitzgerald said he did not have a problem with spending the money because he viewed it as his "duty" to do just that.

But what happened in Miami with the Dolphins, where rookies have allegedly been expected to serve as ATMs, seems to be a bit over the top.

And as for the abuse Richie Incognito allegedly sent Jonathan Martin's way?

"I don't think there's a place in the locker room, I don't think there's a place in society for that type of language and behavior," Fitzgerald said. "To treat somebody that you would consider a friend -- you know, the offensive linemen in the NFL are usually the most close-knit group out of any of the positions, I mean, they work together, all five of them have to work together for your team to have success offensively.

"To see that kind of dissension and disdain was saddening."

It's the type of thing Fitzgerald said a team's leaders need to step in and stop.

"When you have those kind of risks in your locker room it divides the team," he said. "Potentially, it can cause a cancer and your team can plummet."

http://arizonasports.com/40/1674817/Arizona-Cardinals-Larry-Fitzgerald-talks-IncognitoMartin-situation

Fitz was on Colin Cowherd today, his words did not match up to what was printed, saw that AZ piece earlier this morning or last night.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Joe Philbin will get no credit for this but I just found out thru local radio that he visited Martin 3x in the facility he checked into...3x plus he visited the parents twice. He sounds like a college coach doing that, meaning it sounded like he cared.

I'm finding it harder to believe he knew how bad it was. Now if he didn't know, that also says a lot about him holding down a coaching job in the NFL but Philbin took action and did try to reach out to Martin. I think he genuinely is concerned for him.

 

[KCitons]

I'm not sticking up for Incognito, but I think the Dolphins & the NFL have promoted this type of culture. I think it would be awfully easy & convenient to dump 100% of the blame on Incognito, when this crap has probably been going on in the NFL for years.

I also don't think this would be as big of an issue if "cyber bullying" wasn't such a relevant topic right now.

True, but the use of the "N" word in and of itself guaranteed that this would be a major story

I think the NFL also needs to take a better stance on not supporting the use of the "N" word. For example, they have multiple advertisers that employ people like Kanye West & other Hip-hop artist who use the word on a regular basis.

People who have done NFL halftime shows like Niki Minaj, M.I.A, Cee Lo, Beyonce, & P-Diddy have all used or been on albums where the "N" word is used.

You have lost your mind. Any other words you'd like to police out of grown men's mouths?

DonDante

 

[Doug B]

We all know Martin could have at any time resisted the payments; he chose not to ... But to say that Martin couldn't say 'no' is stretching the victim label a lot farther than I'm willing to accept.

Could he have resisted the payments without undue consequences? I don't believe for a second that if Martin told Incognito and the other vets to "pound sand" that there'd have been no blowback.

And again, forget Martin and Incognito for a second. The vet-minimum rookies getting jobbed is just as much, if not more, of an issue. It really was the team's culture that was a problem, from what I can tell.

 

[Doug B]

Fitz was on Colin Cowherd today, his words did not match up to what was printed, saw that AZ piece earlier this morning or last night.

NFL PR getting out the memo that reads "Shut the [bleep] up, clowns! Schmidt stains are hard to clean off of The Shield"

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Celebrity part owners of the Miami Dolphins include...

Venus Williams

Serena WIlliams

Gloria Estefan

Jennifer Lopez

Marc Anthony

Wouldn't you think Venus, Serena, and the others might object to these N-Bombs and want to distance themselves from the team?

 

[JAMES!]

I'm saying it shouldn't be an issue at all. Two football careers are potentially over because a guy slammed down a tray of spaghetti instead of simply telling a teammate to back off.

That isn't why two careers are potentially over. This is.

For a second i thought that didn't mean what it means.

 

[Doug B]

Jason Whitlock on Lebatard's show next, this ought to be good. He roasted the Miami media and beat writers thru Twitter the last several days.

What's Whitlock's take? I keep hearing he's laying these bombs, but I haven't seen him print anything. He's just doing TV/radio now?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Jason Whitlock on Lebatard's show next, this ought to be good. He roasted the Miami media and beat writers thru Twitter the last several days.

What's Whitlock's take? I keep hearing he's laying these bombs, but I haven't seen him print anything. He's just doing TV/radio now?

I can't hear it, apparently Heat pregame took precedence

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Is it OK to say they're both to blame? Incognito's a meat head and they didn't name Martin Big Weirdo for nothing.

......

...

Fitzgerald on the issue:

Once upon a time, Larry Fitzgerald was a rookie.

And just like all rookies, he was hazed some.

"I know that my rookie year I spent more than $15,000 on taking care of my veteran teammates," the receiver told ESPN Radio's Colin Cowherd Tuesday morning.

In fact, Fitzgerald said he did not have a problem with spending the money because he viewed it as his "duty" to do just that.

But what happened in Miami with the Dolphins, where rookies have allegedly been expected to serve as ATMs, seems to be a bit over the top.

And as for the abuse Richie Incognito allegedly sent Jonathan Martin's way?

"I don't think there's a place in the locker room, I don't think there's a place in society for that type of language and behavior," Fitzgerald said. "To treat somebody that you would consider a friend -- you know, the offensive linemen in the NFL are usually the most close-knit group out of any of the positions, I mean, they work together, all five of them have to work together for your team to have success offensively.

"To see that kind of dissension and disdain was saddening."

It's the type of thing Fitzgerald said a team's leaders need to step in and stop.

"When you have those kind of risks in your locker room it divides the team," he said. "Potentially, it can cause a cancer and your team can plummet."

http://arizonasports.com/40/1674817/Arizona-Cardinals-Larry-Fitzgerald-talks-IncognitoMartin-situation

This fact about offensive linemen - I'm not sure if it's been discussed here but it's something that has occurred to me repeatedly. Also, the O-linemen are often the bedrock of any team's character.

Where were the other O-line guys on this?

 

[JAMES!]

I'm saying it shouldn't be an issue at all. Two football careers are potentially over because a guy slammed down a tray of spaghetti instead of simply telling a teammate to back off.

That isn't why two careers are potentially over. This is.

It's all rep speak now. They're trying to salvage careers. Martin has to make everyone know he was wronged. Incognito is going to have to say he took things too far, get counseling. It all be a pointless dog and pony show. It's gone too far. How about they have a mafia sit down, make amends, hug it out and get ready for the next game? Wouldn't both guys want that at this point? It's bigger than them now and people want blood. I say we all get over it and get back to way more important matters like the nickname of washington's football team.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Jason Whitlock on Lebatard's show next, this ought to be good. He roasted the Miami media and beat writers thru Twitter the last several days.

What's Whitlock's take? I keep hearing he's laying these bombs, but I haven't seen him print anything. He's just doing TV/radio now?

OK I got it streaming on the ESPN site, he basically is blasting the Miami Dolphins...he is bringing up Dez Bryant interview by Jeff Ireland. Keeps calling Martin a "kid"

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Whitlock saying Martin was not ready for the prison environment of the Miami Dolphins. Said intellectuals like Martin cannot deal with idiots like Incognito...kinda interesting to hear him speak for the intellectuals everywhere.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Whitlock said Philbin, Ireland, and Ross should be a FF owner and not running the Miami Dolphins.

Very upset Martin is getting blasted thru Twitter from current owners. Said Richie was goading him into a fight and that Martin could not partake in that.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Whitlock said he was bully when he was a teenager and that is why he frowns on this and views himself as foolish when he was young. Said he is very emotional on this issue.

 

[squistion]

From Mike Florio at PFT:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/05/martin-bears-no-blame-for-doing-the-right-thing/

Martin bears no blame for doing the right thing

Posted by Mike Florio on November 5, 2013, 2:27 PM EST

At a time when it’s becoming more clear that Dolphins tackle Jonathan Martin was the victim of harassment, plenty of people are pointing a finger at him for the way he handled the situation.

From former players like Tony Siragusa on Tuesday’s edition of The Dan Patrick Show to current players like Giants safety Antrel Rolle, there’s a mindset in NFL circles that Martin shouldn’t have blown the whistle on teammate Richie Incognito.

“They talk about teams being a family,” Siragusa told Patrick. “When you’re in the locker room, that’s like your home. . . . Things are handled in there and said in there that shouldn’t be brought out to the media. Plainly because the media and really the real world can handle a lot of those things and things that happen in that locker room. . . . I think [Martin] should have confronted Incognito. I think he should have went up to him and said ‘What’s your problem?’ or said something to him or kept it in house.”

It’s not simply a generational mindset.

“Richie Incognito, is he wrong? Absolutely,” Rolle told WFAN’s Joe & Evan. ”But I think the other guy is just as much to blame because he’s allowed it to happen. . . .

“You know, at this level, you’re a man. You’re not a little boy. You’re not a freshman in college. You’re a man. So I think everything has its limits. So there’s no way that another man is gonna make me pay for something that I choose not to pay for. . . .

“Hopefully he’s able to bounce back and recover from all that has happened and understand it, and take awareness of, you know, that you’re a grown-### man. You need to stand up for yourself.”

Here’s the point that guys like Siragusa and Rolle (and many others) are missing. By following the channels that the league has put in place, Martin did stand up for himself.

Martin’s action weren’t just proper, they were courageous. Those same Dolphins players who have said positive things about Incognito since his exile from the Dolphins will be inclined to blame Incognito’s absence on Martin’s reluctance to “stand up for himself.” And it will make it harder for Martin to return to the team.

In a society where every issue seems to have two sides and there’s no subtlety or nuance or middle ground, NFL needs to make it clear to all players, coaches, broadcasters, and anyone else connected to the game that there can be no reasonable debate on this topic. Martin did the right thing. Indeed, Martin did the only thing he should have done.

Players who choose to stand up for themselves via physical and verbal confrontations risk an escalation that could turn ugly. Given the number of American workplaces in which disgruntled employees have committed horribly violent acts and in light of the high percentage of professional football players who own guns, getting in a guy’s face away from the field no longer should be regarded as an acceptable solution to harassment.

A truly grown-### man will at all times refrain from violence, he’ll file a complaint, and he’ll deal with the flak from any meatheads who think that it’s still better to punch someone in the mouth.

 

[JAMES!]

The only way either guy comes out of this looking good is to have a dual press conference where Incognito apologizes and says he took messing around too far. he apologizes directly to Martin, tells him he loves having him for a teammate. Martin then accepts the apology and says that he shouldn't have walked out on the team. He should have brought it to someone's attention. They both hug and say how lucky they are to play for the Dolphins and that they're both better people and stronger for going through this. Throw Philbin on stage with them to add in an "Mmmmkay" at the end. Crisis over.

Or they can both dig in and have this follow both of them forever.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Belichick handles the press masterfully. All HCs should take notes. Philbin aint no Belichick. If you get as good as Belichick and want to get cute, then you can start studying Parcells, but there is great risk with his style. Just feed the press nothing and you don't get poop flying back in your face.

"Say little when you win; say less when you lose."

Words to live by...

 

[Native]

Interesting commentary from one of the more candid and thoughtful Dolphins. Fascinating how many angles there are to this story. Ricky doesnt consider this bullying at all. Ricky Williams: Maybe Martin doesn't belong in NFL
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000277233/article/ricky-williams-maybe-dolphins-martin-doesnt-belong-in-the-nfl

Ricky Williams might have a reputation for flakiness, but is there any NFL player of the past two generations more qualified to weigh in on the controversy involving Miami Dolphins offensive linemen Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin?

Williams played with Incognito in Miami and shared Martin's need to step away from the NFL lifestyle. One never knows what answers Williams will provide, but they are consistently refreshing and thought-provoking as opposed to typical jock bromides.

In a Tuesday morning interview with KGMZ-FM in San Francisco, Williams balked at the idea that Incognito's actions qualify as hazing or bullying in the uniquely demanding culture of professional football.

"How is bullying something that's even mentioned regarding the NFL?" Williams wondered. "Because that's kind of what we're taught to do -- at least on the field -- is to bully the guy across from us so we can win the football game.

"It's kind of what we're subjected to on a day-to-day basis that most people will never be able to understand. ... What we're required to do physically, mentally and emotionally for the course of a season is astronomical -- it's amazing," Williams added. "And I'm not saying that it's bad. I'm saying it just really speaks to what it takes to be a professional football player. And to me there's no room to play the victim or to be bullied or to even have that discussion when it comes to the NFL. If you're having that discussion, it just means that maybe you don't belong in the NFL."

Williams should know. Nine years ago, he came to his own realization that he didn't belong in the NFL.

"I think I can relate and I can speak on this because I was at a point where I was done with the NFL and I needed to take a break," Williams said. "But unlike Jonathan, I didn't have to find a scapegoat or someone to blame. ... I didn't have to bring anyone else down when I found out that I just couldn't handle what I was going through at the time."

Williams went through many of the same experiences as Martin early in his career, but emphasized that he never took it as a personal attack.

"I just understood that's the nature of the game," Williams explained. "When I came in as a rookie, they called me 'Ricky Weirdo.' And they busted my balls and they gave me a hard time, but I just laughed because it was funny. ... If someone sent me those messages, I would send a text back and call him a redneck and put 'lol.' To me, situations that you got yourself into, you got yourself into. It falls on you to find a way to get yourself out. And I'm not judging the way he got himself out of the situation. I actually think it's quite brilliant.

"There's all these text messages and these voice messages," Williams went on. "It takes some awareness and some planning and some orchestration to actually save those and record those. ... (Martin) is fighting (Incognito), but he's just doing it in his own way. If we're going to talk about the story as a hazing story -- which doesn't fit -- or as a bullying story, it's really a great example of the kid that is 'getting bullied' fighting back in his own way. ... I think they're both victims. I think the truth is never going to come out. One guy has a paid vacation. And one guy has a vacation that's not paid right now."

Asked about the racist language allegedly used by Incognito in text and voice messages, Williams took exception to the notion that societal standards apply to a locker room setting.

"It's not inflammatory if it's your family," Williams said. "When you look at a team, especially two guys that play the same position, and you really understand how much time they spend together, you can't put it in the context that you would put it outside of a family setting. ... If you had a tape recorder in the locker room, you would hear a lot of stuff that wouldn't fly in the media. A football team, the NFL, it's a fraternity. ... It's not fair and it's not right for people on the outside to judge and try to figure out what's going on on the inside, because most of the people on the outside wouldn't last a week on an NFL team."

In Williams' experience, Incognito is not a racist. He also believes coach Joe Philbin's responsibility was to step in only when the actions of the other linemen affected Martin's play.

"The locker room, we keep coaches out for a reason. It's our space," Williams emphasized. "When I look at the issue, it's not about racism, it's not about bullying, it's not about hazing. It's about a lack of leadership in that locker room. ... And this is just one of the ways in which it's manifested."

Williams' comments are fascinating, but it's fair to wonder if he's letting Philbin and a troubled Incognito off the hook.

Hall of Famer Bill Walsh's coaching tree never tolerated any form of hazing or harassing. Pete Carroll doesn't allow it in Seattle. Jimmy Johnson andMike Shanahan have said they'venever witnessed bullying to the extent that is alleged in this circumstance.

The hope now is that the Dolphins' leadership failure will lead to positive change as more NFL locker rooms embrace Walsh's philosophies and reject a philistine vestige of the sport's past

 

[matuski]

This fact about offensive linemen - I'm not sure if it's been discussed here but it's something that has occurred to me repeatedly. Also, the O-linemen are often the bedrock of any team's character.

Where were the other O-line guys on this?

Pouncey was busy trying to free his buddy Hernandez.

Looks like someone put together an all star cast of characters on that line.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Williams said. "But unlike Jonathan, I didn't have to find a scapegoat or someone to blame. ... I didn't have to bring anyone else down when I found out that I just couldn't handle what I was going through at the time."

I like his points, but just because he didn't fight to win and instead quit, that doesn't mean he should bemoan someone else from trying to win.

 

[Neofight]

Is it OK to say they're both to blame? Incognito's a meat head and they didn't name Martin Big Weirdo for nothing.

...I saw the Rich Gannon piece, the ESPN talking heads but there were lots of guys on the radio today including Larry Fitz who did not speak highly of Martin, former LB for the Bills Darryl Talley was on 560 WQAM today and he blasted Jonathan Martin for doing this.

I feel like Incognito broke federal laws in terms of extortion. Fitzgerald was very open about how much he spent as a rookie, said you gotta pay a price to be a member of the club. So what will happen is now Goodell and a new crusade will break out in the NFL. "Crusade" was used religiously on talk radio all over today not just local but National and of course the National radio hosts have a much bigger spectrum and audience they reach.

...

Fitzgerald on the issue:

Once upon a time, Larry Fitzgerald was a rookie.

And just like all rookies, he was hazed some.

"I know that my rookie year I spent more than $15,000 on taking care of my veteran teammates," the receiver told ESPN Radio's Colin Cowherd Tuesday morning.

In fact, Fitzgerald said he did not have a problem with spending the money because he viewed it as his "duty" to do just that.

But what happened in Miami with the Dolphins, where rookies have allegedly been expected to serve as ATMs, seems to be a bit over the top.

And as for the abuse Richie Incognito allegedly sent Jonathan Martin's way?

"I don't think there's a place in the locker room, I don't think there's a place in society for that type of language and behavior," Fitzgerald said. "To treat somebody that you would consider a friend -- you know, the offensive linemen in the NFL are usually the most close-knit group out of any of the positions, I mean, they work together, all five of them have to work together for your team to have success offensively.

"To see that kind of dissension and disdain was saddening."

It's the type of thing Fitzgerald said a team's leaders need to step in and stop.

"When you have those kind of risks in your locker room it divides the team," he said. "Potentially, it can cause a cancer and your team can plummet."

http://arizonasports.com/40/1674817/Arizona-Cardinals-Larry-Fitzgerald-talks-IncognitoMartin-situation

Fitz was on Colin Cowherd today, his words did not match up to what was printed, saw that AZ piece earlier this morning or last night.

Here's the audio: http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=9930977Give it a listen; I'm not hearing what I'm understanding you to say you heard. Perhaps this clip is edited...

 

[Ministry of Pain]

From Mike Florio at PFT:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/05/martin-bears-no-blame-for-doing-the-right-thing/

Martin bears no blame for doing the right thing

Posted by Mike Florio on November 5, 2013, 2:27 PM EST

At a time when it’s becoming more clear that Dolphins tackle Jonathan Martin was the victim of harassment, plenty of people are pointing a finger at him for the way he handled the situation.

From former players like Tony Siragusa on Tuesday’s edition of The Dan Patrick Show to current players like Giants safety Antrel Rolle, there’s a mindset in NFL circles that Martin shouldn’t have blown the whistle on teammate Richie Incognito.

“They talk about teams being a family,” Siragusa told Patrick. “When you’re in the locker room, that’s like your home. . . . Things are handled in there and said in there that shouldn’t be brought out to the media. Plainly because the media and really the real world can handle a lot of those things and things that happen in that locker room. . . . I think [Martin] should have confronted Incognito. I think he should have went up to him and said ‘What’s your problem?’ or said something to him or kept it in house.”

It’s not simply a generational mindset.

“Richie Incognito, is he wrong? Absolutely,” Rolle told WFAN’s Joe & Evan. ”But I think the other guy is just as much to blame because he’s allowed it to happen. . . .

“You know, at this level, you’re a man. You’re not a little boy. You’re not a freshman in college. You’re a man. So I think everything has its limits. So there’s no way that another man is gonna make me pay for something that I choose not to pay for. . . .

“Hopefully he’s able to bounce back and recover from all that has happened and understand it, and take awareness of, you know, that you’re a grown-### man. You need to stand up for yourself.”

Here’s the point that guys like Siragusa and Rolle (and many others) are missing. By following the channels that the league has put in place, Martin did stand up for himself.

Martin’s action weren’t just proper, they were courageous. Those same Dolphins players who have said positive things about Incognito since his exile from the Dolphins will be inclined to blame Incognito’s absence on Martin’s reluctance to “stand up for himself.” And it will make it harder for Martin to return to the team.

In a society where every issue seems to have two sides and there’s no subtlety or nuance or middle ground, NFL needs to make it clear to all players, coaches, broadcasters, and anyone else connected to the game that there can be no reasonable debate on this topic. Martin did the right thing. Indeed, Martin did the only thing he should have done.

Players who choose to stand up for themselves via physical and verbal confrontations risk an escalation that could turn ugly. Given the number of American workplaces in which disgruntled employees have committed horribly violent acts and in light of the high percentage of professional football players who own guns, getting in a guy’s face away from the field no longer should be regarded as an acceptable solution to harassment.

A truly grown-### man will at all times refrain from violence, he’ll file a complaint, and he’ll deal with the flak from any meatheads who think that it’s still better to punch someone in the mouth.

Appreciate Mike Floria but that is a personal editorial.

 

[ShockTheMonkey]

Boo hoo. If it bothered him so much he should have stood up for himself and slugged somebody

OR...stood up for himself and ended that guy's career costing him millions of dollars. But I'm sure Incongnito can just suck it up. He got beat fair and square in the game of life... demz da rulz

In before someone says that Martin took it too far in likely ruining Incognito's career. You can't on one hand say that it's just a bunch of grown men in a locker room giving each other a hard time and they should "man-up", and on the other hand claim that there are millions of dollars at stake when you make a move that could end a man's career. If making millions of dollars (or at least the league minimum $400k) is so important, you'd think these guys would act accordingly.

 

[drummer]

From Mike Florio at PFT:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/05/martin-bears-no-blame-for-doing-the-right-thing/

Martin bears no blame for doing the right thing

Posted by Mike Florio on November 5, 2013, 2:27 PM EST

At a time when it’s becoming more clear that Dolphins tackle Jonathan Martin was the victim of harassment, plenty of people are pointing a finger at him for the way he handled the situation.

From former players like Tony Siragusa on Tuesday’s edition of The Dan Patrick Show to current players like Giants safety Antrel Rolle, there’s a mindset in NFL circles that Martin shouldn’t have blown the whistle on teammate Richie Incognito.

“They talk about teams being a family,” Siragusa told Patrick. “When you’re in the locker room, that’s like your home. . . . Things are handled in there and said in there that shouldn’t be brought out to the media. Plainly because the media and really the real world can handle a lot of those things and things that happen in that locker room. . . . I think [Martin] should have confronted Incognito. I think he should have went up to him and said ‘What’s your problem?’ or said something to him or kept it in house.”

It’s not simply a generational mindset.

“Richie Incognito, is he wrong? Absolutely,” Rolle told WFAN’s Joe & Evan. ”But I think the other guy is just as much to blame because he’s allowed it to happen. . . .

“You know, at this level, you’re a man. You’re not a little boy. You’re not a freshman in college. You’re a man. So I think everything has its limits. So there’s no way that another man is gonna make me pay for something that I choose not to pay for. . . .

“Hopefully he’s able to bounce back and recover from all that has happened and understand it, and take awareness of, you know, that you’re a grown-### man. You need to stand up for yourself.”

Here’s the point that guys like Siragusa and Rolle (and many others) are missing. By following the channels that the league has put in place, Martin did stand up for himself.

Martin’s action weren’t just proper, they were courageous. Those same Dolphins players who have said positive things about Incognito since his exile from the Dolphins will be inclined to blame Incognito’s absence on Martin’s reluctance to “stand up for himself.” And it will make it harder for Martin to return to the team.

In a society where every issue seems to have two sides and there’s no subtlety or nuance or middle ground, NFL needs to make it clear to all players, coaches, broadcasters, and anyone else connected to the game that there can be no reasonable debate on this topic. Martin did the right thing. Indeed, Martin did the only thing he should have done.

Players who choose to stand up for themselves via physical and verbal confrontations risk an escalation that could turn ugly. Given the number of American workplaces in which disgruntled employees have committed horribly violent acts and in light of the high percentage of professional football players who own guns, getting in a guy’s face away from the field no longer should be regarded as an acceptable solution to harassment.

A truly grown-### man will at all times refrain from violence, he’ll file a complaint, and he’ll deal with the flak from any meatheads who think that it’s still better to punch someone in the mouth.

Appreciate Mike Floria but that is a personal editorial.

The worst part about PFT: the reader comments. It's horrifying to think those readers can procreate.

 

[cobalt_27]

From Mike Florio at PFT:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/05/martin-bears-no-blame-for-doing-the-right-thing/

Martin bears no blame for doing the right thing

Posted by Mike Florio on November 5, 2013, 2:27 PM EST

At a time when it’s becoming more clear that Dolphins tackle Jonathan Martin was the victim of harassment, plenty of people are pointing a finger at him for the way he handled the situation.

From former players like Tony Siragusa on Tuesday’s edition of The Dan Patrick Show to current players like Giants safety Antrel Rolle, there’s a mindset in NFL circles that Martin shouldn’t have blown the whistle on teammate Richie Incognito.

“They talk about teams being a family,” Siragusa told Patrick. “When you’re in the locker room, that’s like your home. . . . Things are handled in there and said in there that shouldn’t be brought out to the media. Plainly because the media and really the real world can handle a lot of those things and things that happen in that locker room. . . . I think [Martin] should have confronted Incognito. I think he should have went up to him and said ‘What’s your problem?’ or said something to him or kept it in house.”

It’s not simply a generational mindset.

“Richie Incognito, is he wrong? Absolutely,” Rolle told WFAN’s Joe & Evan. ”But I think the other guy is just as much to blame because he’s allowed it to happen. . . .

“You know, at this level, you’re a man. You’re not a little boy. You’re not a freshman in college. You’re a man. So I think everything has its limits. So there’s no way that another man is gonna make me pay for something that I choose not to pay for. . . .

“Hopefully he’s able to bounce back and recover from all that has happened and understand it, and take awareness of, you know, that you’re a grown-### man. You need to stand up for yourself.”

Here’s the point that guys like Siragusa and Rolle (and many others) are missing. By following the channels that the league has put in place, Martin did stand up for himself.

Martin’s action weren’t just proper, they were courageous. Those same Dolphins players who have said positive things about Incognito since his exile from the Dolphins will be inclined to blame Incognito’s absence on Martin’s reluctance to “stand up for himself.” And it will make it harder for Martin to return to the team.

In a society where every issue seems to have two sides and there’s no subtlety or nuance or middle ground, NFL needs to make it clear to all players, coaches, broadcasters, and anyone else connected to the game that there can be no reasonable debate on this topic. Martin did the right thing. Indeed, Martin did the only thing he should have done.

Players who choose to stand up for themselves via physical and verbal confrontations risk an escalation that could turn ugly. Given the number of American workplaces in which disgruntled employees have committed horribly violent acts and in light of the high percentage of professional football players who own guns, getting in a guy’s face away from the field no longer should be regarded as an acceptable solution to harassment.

A truly grown-### man will at all times refrain from violence, he’ll file a complaint, and he’ll deal with the flak from any meatheads who think that it’s still better to punch someone in the mouth.

Appreciate Mike Floria but that is a personal editorial.

And...?

Not sure the problem that he's editorializing. That's what he does.

 

[Otis]

So love seeing karma coming back around on crappy people.

 

[SWC]

and floriono is right to so i guess that he has that going or him take it to the bank brohans

 

[Dr Oadi]

The play on the field is so bad everyone has to have a soap opera to entertain them

period

 

[BassNBrew]

Who was the rookie WR everyone busted on for not carry the veterans pads at camp? Seemed like he got crushed for standing up to the hazing.

 

[Faust]

Incognito's sad story going from bullied to bullyBruce Feldman

After he figured he simply couldn't handle any more of the torment, he turned around and cracked the bully in the face.

Twice.

Gave the dude two black eyes.

That's how we've been told to handle bullies, right? Give 'em a taste of their own medicine.

The guy who had been tormented was none other than Richie Incognito. He had been bullied for much of his childhood, getting called "fatass," "lardass" and "whale," Incognito and his parents revealed to me years ago when I profiled him in 2003. At the time, Incognito was a Nebraska O-lineman plagued with anger issues.

When he was in elementary school, teachers told his parents that Richie never stuck up for himself so his old man told him, "You can't let them keep doing it."

Incognito told me that smashing the bully that day didn't make him feel any satisfaction.

"We were both scared," Incognito admitted. "He ran one way, and I ran the other."

The ridicule he endured for being overweight didn't get any better after his family moved to Arizona when he was in the sixth grade and he realized the only thing worse than being the fat kid is being the new fat kid. But he ended up in more fights. He later found what seemed like an ideal place for that rage that had been brewing inside him: the football field. One of his coaches told me back then how he loved that young Richie held grudges, and that he made sure to put him up against anyone who made fun of him when he was younger.

"Football gave me confidence," Richie Incognito told me then, "and something to put my energy into." And, as the old movie line went, it gave him a place where all of his faults became virtues.

In the past few days ugly details have surfaced about Incognito's treatment of Miami Dolphins teammate Jonathan Martin after the second-year lineman left the team amid reports that he had been bullied and Incognito was identified as the ringleader. In texts and voicemails Martin made available to the Dolphins and the NFL, Incognito used racial slurs when referring to Martin, colleague Jason La Canfora reported Monday. Additionally, there were several instances of threats, and one exchange in which Incognito refers to defacating in Martin's mouth. Incognito also made reference to tracking down members of Martin's family and harming them.

The reports are hardly the first time in Incognito's NFL career where he has been the center of ugly allegations and controversy. He has been voted the NFL's dirtiest player by his peers. Not long after that magazine story I wrote about Incognito in 2003, his career at Nebraska bottomed out after more incidents due to his rage issues.

"Hate is a strong word but I've always hated Incognito," former NFL defensive lineman Lawrence Jackson, a former NFL defensive end tweeted Monday in the wake of the news. "Just for perspective, he's the guy that makes you want to spit in his face."

When the accounts of what was in the messages Incognito sent to Martin surfaced, it prompted outrage in the media and from some other former NFL players, but seemingly not from his Dolphins teammates. Actually, it was the opposite. They, apparently, viewed all of this as more hazing than harassment.

“I love Richie,” said wide receiver Mike Wallace. “I think he's a great guy.”

Cornerback Will Davis called Incognito one of the most popular players in the Dolphins locker room.

As vile as those alleged messages Incognito sent are, it appears the Dolphins were picking the racist bully over someone they perceived as weak, or worse yet, soft.

The sad reality in this is it's a reminder, like with many other cases of abuse, about how a victim -- Incognito -- learns to become the victimizer in some sort of power play.

Football didn't just enable Incognito's abusive behavior, it rewarded it. And, in one way or another, it encouraged it. Two years ago, Incognito signed a three-year $12.9 million contract. He wasn't being paid for being a nice guy. Incognito plays with an edge. Opponents may hate it, but coaches -- and the majority of his teammates, it seems, love it. But this isn't to put all the blame for Richie Incognito's behavior on a sport.

My guess is years ago -- maybe right back to that day a young Richie wheeled back around and slugged that mouthy kid -- his persona first took root. Eventually, he liked it, because he got respect. Or at least some version of respect. And whether he was liked or hated or probably both, he believed he had respect, which is such a weird twist since his behavior had so little to do with the truest definition of respect.

Truth is, this is a sad, ugly story that you'd have to be pretty cold-hearted or just doused in denial and insecurity not to grasp. It's what happens when people don't have respect for each other or themselves.

The more I heard about the story about the two Dolphins linemen, I wondered if deep down Richie Incognito is still that same scared little kid.

 

[jurb26]

Who was the rookie WR everyone busted on for not carry the veterans pads at camp? Seemed like he got crushed for standing up to the hazing.

Pretty sure it was Dez.

 

[Faust]

Who was the rookie WR everyone busted on for not carry the veterans pads at camp? Seemed like he got crushed for standing up to the hazing.

Is this the incident that you are referring to:

Bryant won't carry Williams' pads

 

[Faust]

Another alleged hazing event from the past:

Alleged Hazing Incident Sidelines Cleeland

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Who was the rookie WR everyone busted on for not carry the veterans pads at camp? Seemed like he got crushed for standing up to the hazing.

Pretty sure it was Dez.

It certainly was

 

[Griffindor]

Who was the rookie WR everyone busted on for not carry the veterans pads at camp? Seemed like he got crushed for standing up to the hazing.

Pretty sure it was Dez.

It certainly was

Good for him.

 

[Native]

Who was the rookie WR everyone busted on for not carry the veterans pads at camp? Seemed like he got crushed for standing up to the hazing.

Is this the incident that you are referring to:

Bryant won't carry Williams' pads

Fascinating. He was reprimanded both by players and the media.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Who was the rookie WR everyone busted on for not carry the veterans pads at camp? Seemed like he got crushed for standing up to the hazing.

Is this the incident that you are referring to:

Bryant won't carry Williams' pads

Fascinating. He was reprimanded both by players and the media.

Because he was a bad apple coming out of college. At least that's what the media told us.

 

[Slapdash]

Who was the rookie WR everyone busted on for not carry the veterans pads at camp? Seemed like he got crushed for standing up to the hazing.

Pretty sure it was Dez.

Right...the guy the Dolphins passed on because of character issues....

 

[RBM]

The only way either guy comes out of this looking good is to have a dual press conference where Incognito apologizes and says he took messing around too far. he apologizes directly to Martin, tells him he loves having him for a teammate. Martin then accepts the apology and says that he shouldn't have walked out on the team. He should have brought it to someone's attention. They both hug and say how lucky they are to play for the Dolphins and that they're both better people and stronger for going through this. Throw Philbin on stage with them to add in an "Mmmmkay" at the end. Crisis over.

Or they can both dig in and have this follow both of them forever.

This would be great.