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Dynasty Value Discussion Thread (10 Viewers)

Wow that's a tough group of five to rank. 

Three would-be alphas with competition on their own team in Waddle, Brown, and Higgins. D.J. Moore with no competition but no quarterback or touchdown prowess to speak of. Adams is pushing thirty. 

That's a tough crew to rank. 

How I'd want them, in order. 

Higgins, Moore, Adams, Brown, Waddle
I'm close to this. 

Higgins, Moore, Waddle, Brown, Adams (because he old, and the team change is still TBD on his prowess for 2022)

The toughest one for me to wrestle with was ABJ. I love the talent. He's missed quite a few games, mostly due to the same leg (knee, knee, calf, hammy) - for those who believe in such things, draft sharks puts his chance of injury in 2022 at 41%. He also just went to a team that hasn't exactly had the best track record of featuring their WRs. Of course that could be a chicken & the egg since they also haven't had a ton of depth at the position, but Hurts is likely to vulture TDs, and they do like to run a lot. And I'm still not sold on Hurts the passer, though football minds sharper than mine seem to love him this year. 

ETA: The only reason I have Moore this high is the optimism that the Panthers get a QB in the next year-ish. The talent is there. He even had some monster games with Darnold early last year. Age, ability - it's only his team holding him back, and as we've seen, than change quickly in today's NFL. 

 
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I'm close to this. 

Higgins, Moore, Waddle, Brown, Adams (because he old, and the team change is still TBD on his prowess for 2022)

The toughest one for me to wrestle with was ABJ. I love the talent. He's missed quite a few games, mostly due to the same leg (knee, knee, calf, hammy) - for those who believe in such things, draft sharks puts his chance of injury in 2022 at 41%. He also just went to a team that hasn't exactly had the best track record of featuring their WRs. Of course that could be a chicken & the egg since they also haven't had a ton of depth at the position, but Hurts is likely to vulture TDs, and they do like to run a lot. And I'm still not sold on Hurts the passer, though football minds sharper than mine seem to love him this year. 
I have Brown and Waddle behind Adams because of the same injury concerns for Brown. I have Waddle there due to size, method of deployment last year, and Tyreek Hill now being there. Higgins has already shown he can eat with Chase, while Brown and Waddle have yet to show they can eat with their current team's makeup. 

 
I have Brown and Waddle behind Adams because of the same injury concerns for Brown. I have Waddle there due to size, method of deployment last year, and Tyreek Hill now being there. Higgins has already shown he can eat with Chase, while Brown and Waddle have yet to show they can eat with their current team's makeup. 
Good points. Fair. As you said, it's a really difficult list to rank. 

I'm just happy that of that list, I have Higgins. :)  

 
Yeah, I keep thinking that in terms of actual points scored, Adams should flip with Moore in my rankings. But Davante is twenty-nine. That's getting up there. 
Adams could still deliver a few seasons of elite production. From what I've seen, many here view dynasty in 2-3 year windows.  

Here's how I see Adams: 

Adams will be 30 in December.  I can only view this as a negative. The Adam Thielen post-30 high-level production players are pretty rare in the NFL.

Adams went from the ARod to Carr.  While there has been some flowery reporting (based on Adams' hyperbolic comments) it's hard not to see that as a downgrade, and a potentially significant one. I like Carr. I don't yet know if Carr's arm matches Adams skill set, or if the Raiders offensive play-calling will result in similar production that Adams had in GB. He had some moments with Ruggs, but really struggled with AC. And there are often growing pains year 1.  

Adams goes from playing the Bears, Vikings, & Lions twice a year to playing the Chiefs, Chargers, & Broncos 2x a year. That would, at least at the moment, seem to be a much tougher division defensively. All of those AFC teams seemingly improved their defenses this offseason. The Broncos and Chargers are both top 10 NFL defenses, IMO.  Chargers could be top 5. 

There are seemingly more mouths to feed in Oakland than there were in GB. Rodgers peppered Adams with passes. In Oakland there's Waller, Renfrow, Demarcus Robinson, Keelan Cole. I realize it's not a whole group of world-beaters behind Adams, but it at least seems like a more consistent group than MVS, Lazard, ARodgers, Tonyan. The Raiders may well spread the ball around more. 

Adams has been pretty healthy during his career (except for the year I had him when he hurt his toe) but the older players get, seemingly the greater the injury risk. There are exceptions of course. 

For redraft, I think Adams is pretty fairly priced, though his 1.10 ADP seems like the market is expecting zero drop-off from GB to OAK, and I think that's flawed. Chase at 1.09 seems like a full tier above Adams, given the team change. Still, he's above Diggs, Deebo & Hill, and given their respective situations, Diggs is the only one I'd probably consider over Adams until there's more clarity on Deebo's situation, and until people see how good the connection between Tua & Hill really is. As we get closer to the season I could see taking Hill over Adams, but that's if Carr to Adams doesn't look as good as Tua to Hill once we see them on the field. 

For Dynasty, I would not be looking to acquire Adams (rebuild), though I could see a win-now team pushing their chips in on him. Even if you get 2 years of "typical" Adams production in his age 29 & 30 seasons (he'll be 30 & 31 at the end, respectively) it could mean a LCG or 2.  Heck, I could even see doing it with a 15% drop in production & 3-5 games missed due to soft tissue injury. Just know that he's likely going to retire on your roster. 

He's an interesting player to evaluate - his production has been so consistently excellent. So much has changed though - and while Tyreek Hill has fallen to the mid-2nd (currently 2.06, he went ~1.10 in 2021, IIRC) Adams has only dropped a spot or 2 from 2021 ADP. Seems optimistic. Time will tell. 

 
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For me, it’s Moore at the bottom, Higgins at the top, and probably The other 3 in the order of whichever I can get cheapest since they’re so close in my eyes. 

 
KeepTradeCut has it: 

Higgins WR5, Brown WR6, Waddle WR7, Adams WR11, Moore WR15


This is  pretty close to how I rank them right now. But when I look at Brown in Philly he scares me. The knee injuries and then goes to a team with another elite wr and not much at qb. I also own Brown in most of my dynasty leagues and I'd like to lower my shares. But when I look at trading him, I don't see a lot of players to target and so far nobody is biting. Waddle is tempting but he's also got a poor qb and Hill joined the team. So I'm not sure what to do with him. 

 
This is  pretty close to how I rank them right now. But when I look at Brown in Philly he scares me. The knee injuries and then goes to a team with another elite wr and not much at qb. I also own Brown in most of my dynasty leagues and I'd like to lower my shares. But when I look at trading him, I don't see a lot of players to target and so far nobody is biting. Waddle is tempting but he's also got a poor qb and Hill joined the team. So I'm not sure what to do with him. 
The injuries worry me.  But if he's healthy, the talent should succeed.  Hurts may never be an elite passer, but I think he can be somewhere between competent and "good."  Which is where I think Tannehill falls.  He's a pretty good QB, but certainly not elite.  I think the Eagles will pass a lot more with the talent they now have at WR.  

In terms of rankings, you could potentially move Waddle above Brown, but it's close enough IMO.

 
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  Hurts may never be an elite passer, but I think he can be somewhere between competent and "good.
I had mentioned I'd take AJB atop the others and  part of that reason is I did not put a lot of stock in having Hurts as his QB other then understanding it's not great in the short term, not a killer, just not great. I'm just of the opinion this works itself out in a year or two tops and by that I mean if Hurts is not good enough to take advantage of his weapons they'll replace him.

By same token I did not put to much emphasis on Higgins with respect to assuming Burrow will remain as his QB for the next decade. As this offseason has shown me teams are a bit reluctant to pay a WR top of the market and maybe Bengals can keep one of those WR's but keeping both when Burrow's contract soars seems very unlikely.

Understand a lot of people manage their teams in 3 year or less windows and if I did that I'd probably have Higgins or Adams atop my list. I'm more of the patient long term kind of owner.

 
Been offered Waddle for Dobbins straight up in my 16 team league. Running back score .2 per carry .5 per reception. Whereas receivers get a full PPR. Trying to decide who holds more value in what is traditionally a running back heavy iN Demand league. I have a couple young running backs and could move Dobbins if the right deal came about. Wondering if this is that right deal.Any thoughts?

 
Been offered Waddle for Dobbins straight up in my 16 team league. Running back score .2 per carry .5 per reception. Whereas receivers get a full PPR. Trying to decide who holds more value in what is traditionally a running back heavy iN Demand league. I have a couple young running backs and could move Dobbins if the right deal came about. Wondering if this is that right deal.Any thoughts?
What do your other rbs and wrs look like? 
 

My initial reaction is to hold Dobbins here. 

 
So I'm in the middle of a best ball SF PPR dynasty draft, took Chase in the 1st, Swift in the 2nd, and decided to take Higgins in the 3rd over AJB, Waddle, Deebo, etc. Between Burrow at QB, and Chase commanding the #1 CB, just seems his floor is scary high. Plus in this format, I feel like you know you're going to get 2-3 TDs between these 2 every single week more times than not. 

 
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ffmail4me said:
I took AJB 2 picks later. Why the sad banana? I'm not convinced Deebo is going to see anywhere near the rushes he had last year, and Waddle went between my Wiggins and AJB selection. 
I like Higgins, I just think his hype is cresting while popular consensus (comparatively) has fallen too low on AJB, Waddle & Deebo.  Makes me a little nervous he's behind Chase but there should be alot of volume there and I'm happy to have Burrow in multiple leagues.  I guess Waddle can also be viewed as second fiddle now too after Tyreek acquisition.  A WR tied to Hurts and the Eagles run-heavy scheme can make people nervous.  There's the question of Deebo's usage going forward and how Lance will perform so I guess all have questions and you just have to pick your guy.

 
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I made a late season trade moving Evans off to a WR needy team for his playoff push, and will use it for a RB at 1.10. That left me with these 4 to choose from, so I ask other fantasy minds, which 2 of these would you keep? Any input is welcome and much appreciated.

Pittman Jr, (better QB by far in my opinion, and ready for alpha duties)

Jeudy, (an actual QB who can pass, but must share spotlight with Sutton)

DJ Moore, (consistent with bad QB play, but is capped due to it)

Waddle, (no idea how the food chain will play itself out, but they didn't spend $$$ to not use their new shiny toy)

 
Adams could still deliver a few seasons of elite production. From what I've seen, many here view dynasty in 2-3 year windows.  

Here's how I see Adams: 

Adams will be 30 in December.  I can only view this as a negative. The Adam Thielen post-30 high-level production players are pretty rare in the NFL.

Adams went from the ARod to Carr.  While there has been some flowery reporting (based on Adams' hyperbolic comments) it's hard not to see that as a downgrade, and a potentially significant one. I like Carr. I don't yet know if Carr's arm matches Adams skill set, or if the Raiders offensive play-calling will result in similar production that Adams had in GB. He had some moments with Ruggs, but really struggled with AC. And there are often growing pains year 1.  

Adams goes from playing the Bears, Vikings, & Lions twice a year to playing the Chiefs, Chargers, & Broncos 2x a year. That would, at least at the moment, seem to be a much tougher division defensively. All of those AFC teams seemingly improved their defenses this offseason. The Broncos and Chargers are both top 10 NFL defenses, IMO.  Chargers could be top 5. 

There are seemingly more mouths to feed in Oakland than there were in GB. Rodgers peppered Adams with passes. In Oakland there's Waller, Renfrow, Demarcus Robinson, Keelan Cole. I realize it's not a whole group of world-beaters behind Adams, but it at least seems like a more consistent group than MVS, Lazard, ARodgers, Tonyan. The Raiders may well spread the ball around more. 

Adams has been pretty healthy during his career (except for the year I had him when he hurt his toe) but the older players get, seemingly the greater the injury risk. There are exceptions of course. 

For redraft, I think Adams is pretty fairly priced, though his 1.10 ADP seems like the market is expecting zero drop-off from GB to OAK, and I think that's flawed. Chase at 1.09 seems like a full tier above Adams, given the team change. Still, he's above Diggs, Deebo & Hill, and given their respective situations, Diggs is the only one I'd probably consider over Adams until there's more clarity on Deebo's situation, and until people see how good the connection between Tua & Hill really is. As we get closer to the season I could see taking Hill over Adams, but that's if Carr to Adams doesn't look as good as Tua to Hill once we see them on the field. 

For Dynasty, I would not be looking to acquire Adams (rebuild), though I could see a win-now team pushing their chips in on him. Even if you get 2 years of "typical" Adams production in his age 29 & 30 seasons (he'll be 30 & 31 at the end, respectively) it could mean a LCG or 2.  Heck, I could even see doing it with a 15% drop in production & 3-5 games missed due to soft tissue injury. Just know that he's likely going to retire on your roster. 

He's an interesting player to evaluate - his production has been so consistently excellent. So much has changed though - and while Tyreek Hill has fallen to the mid-2nd (currently 2.06, he went ~1.10 in 2021, IIRC) Adams has only dropped a spot or 2 from 2021 ADP. Seems optimistic. Time will tell. 
In addition to this stuff, consider this from the Athletic on June 9:

Adams has looked smooth during the offseason program. He’s been almost exclusively lined up outside and has worked from the left and right sides of the field.
Per PFF, Adams played 33% of his pass play snaps out of the slot the past two seasons. But that is Renfrow's domain with the Raiders (64.5%). Probably not a big deal, I'm sure Adams will be great outside, just pointing out another difference.

With regard to valuing Adams, how do you value him in with respect to 2022 rookie picks?

I am in a 12 team Superflex PPR league with the rookie draft ongoing right now. The first 4 picks have been RB Hall, RB Walker, WR London, WR Wilson. The owner with the 1.6 pick posted a list of players he would trade it for, and Adams is on his list. I have Adams and a contending roster (lost in championship last season), but my roster is old, including among others QB Brady, TE Gronk, WR Adams, WR Evans, and RB Henry. I might be able to extract a bit more than 1.6 for Adams, haven't explored anything yet, but I'm undecided. Any comments?

ETA: RB Henry is also on his list. Obviously, I had to live without Henry most of last season and still made the championship game, so maybe he is the better candidate to consider.

 
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ffmail4me said:
I took AJB 2 picks later. Why the sad banana? I'm not convinced Deebo is going to see anywhere near the rushes he had last year, and Waddle went between my Wiggins and AJB selection. 
Look at Deebo's stats before the rushing.  He was ahead of Kupp in  receiving yards at one point.

 
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The owner with the 1.6 pick posted a list of players he would trade it for, and Adams is on his list. I have Adams and a contending roster (lost in championship last season), but my roster is old, including among others QB Brady, TE Gronk, WR Adams, WR Evans, and RB Henry. I might be able to extract a bit more than 1.6 for Adams, haven't explored anything yet, but I'm undecided. Any comments?

ETA: RB Henry is also on his list. Obviously, I had to live without Henry most of last season and still made the championship game, so maybe he is the better candidate to consider.
If i had Adams, i wouldn’t move him for a 2022 1.06. He should command at least a 2023 1st, and an early pick at that. 

 
If i had Adams, i wouldn’t move him for a 2022 1.06. He should command at least a 2023 1st, and an early pick at that. 
Agreed.  As a Win Now owner in FFPC who owns both Henry and Adams, they are part of my core plan to win the championship THIS YEAR, so I ain’t giving them away for maybe’s and what-if’s, and am happy to let them fizzle out on my roster over the next few years instead of selling low in a year that I’m a true contender. 
 

 
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Agreed.  As a Win Now owner in FFPC who owns both Henry and Adams, they are part of my core plan to win the championship THIS YEAR, so I ain’t giving them away for maybe’s and what-if’s, and am happy to let them fizzle out on my roster over the next few years instead of selling low in a year that I’m a true contender. 
 
Thanks. That is how I have been looking at it, but had some doubt when reading some of the posts referencing Adams earlier on this page. Had Henry not gotten hurt last season, I think I would have won the title, hoping for a similarly strong year this season, but with Henry for all of it.

 
Thanks. That is how I have been looking at it, but had some doubt when reading some of the posts referencing Adams earlier on this page. Had Henry not gotten hurt last season, I think I would have won the title, hoping for a similarly strong year this season, but with Henry for all of it.
👊

Maybe you trade him for a 2023 1st if you have 3 other study starting WRs you’ve accumulated. I only have Adams, Evans and Theilen as “top 20” WRs so I’m not moving Adams just yet. 

 
Look at Deebo's stats before the rushing.  He was ahead of Kupp in  receiving yards at one point.
But wasn't that while Aiyuk was out quite a bit? And Kittle too? I think that was a significant factor in his touches. I love him, don't get me wrong, but seemed like a perfect storm for him, they had to rely on him and him alone for a good portion of the season. 

 
ETA: disregard - I misread the email. He wanted Swift & MY 2nd for Chubb. Sorry - this belonged in the “worst offer” topic. :lol:  

 
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If you had Swift (23) in a 16-team dynasty league, and the worst team (on paper) offered you Chubb (26) and a 2016 2nd (likely to be 2.01, 17th overall), would you do it? 

Follow up - if not, would you counter for the 2023 1st, a virtual lock to be a top 3 pick?
PPR league? If so, I wouldn't do it for Chubb/2nd (assume '23 not '16?), but I think asking for a high 1st and Chubb is too much. I mean if they go for it sure, Chubb/early 1st for Swift is a great deal IMO, but I doubt they bite. Maybe you can ask for the 1st and add a little back on your end?

 
PPR league? If so, I wouldn't do it for Chubb/2nd (assume '23 not '16?), but I think asking for a high 1st and Chubb is too much. I mean if they go for it sure, Chubb/early 1st for Swift is a great deal IMO, but I doubt they bite. Maybe you can ask for the 1st and add a little back on your end?
Oops - yes, 23, and yes PPR

yes, I would probably offer them Swift and a 2nd and see what they say.

 
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But wasn't that while Aiyuk was out quite a bit? And Kittle too? I think that was a significant factor in his touches. I love him, don't get me wrong, but seemed like a perfect storm for him, they had to rely on him and him alone for a good portion of the season. 
No because Aiyuk did not miss a game last year and Kittle's availability not only showed no negative impact on Deebo but he seemed to actually increase Deebo's usage in the passing game when he was available and Deebo was being used more like a WR.

 
What is the consensus view on Travis Kelce?  I know older, but for a team in a win now (three straight 2nd place finishes) that is loaded at RB and WR would you trade Damien Harris (RB5 on this squad and has the 1.1 to take Hall) and either Bateman or Jeudy (WR4/5) for Kelce?  Thanks.

 
What is the consensus view on Travis Kelce?  I know older, but for a team in a win now (three straight 2nd place finishes) that is loaded at RB and WR would you trade Damien Harris (RB5 on this squad and has the 1.1 to take Hall) and either Bateman or Jeudy (WR4/5) for Kelce?  Thanks.
Given the depth you laid out? I’d do it without hesitation. The only question would be how much more you could extract (ie: 2023 2nd?). 

 
PPR league? If so, I wouldn't do it for Chubb/2nd (assume '23 not '16?), but I think asking for a high 1st and Chubb is too much. I mean if they go for it sure, Chubb/early 1st for Swift is a great deal IMO, but I doubt they bite. Maybe you can ask for the 1st and add a little back on your end?
See post edit. :lol:  

 
Thats tough. I don't have much of a read on Olave. Mixon isn't as good and in ppr Swift will catch a lot more balls. But the Bengals are one of the best offenses and the lions one of the worst. I'd side with Mixon personally.
I think I agree. Both calcs I plugged it into had it as fair, but I’m guessing age is a major factor favoring swift. I don’t see why a Mixon owner would want to do it. 

Swift is sort of a younger version of Mixon’s career arc. Oft injured, hasn’t lived up to potential.

i want to move him - trying to figure out a viable path. 

 
Close value trade dependent on a few variables…

12 teams, Best Ball, Superflex, PPR

Give: DK Metcalf, ‘23 2nd

Get: Olave, ‘23 1st

——————

I’m semi-punting year one. I have high conviction in Olave too. He might now have DK’s ceiling but will be a solid piece for many years. Plus, I like acquiring future 1sts this far out in the hopes they turn into top 3. It happens more often than you think. Thoughts?

 
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Close value trade dependent on a few variables…

12 teams, Best Ball, Superflex, PPR

Give: DK Metcalf, ‘23 2nd

Get: Olave, ‘23 1st

——————

I’m semi-punting year one. I have high conviction in Olave too. He might now have DK’s ceiling but will be a solid piece for many years. Plus, I like acquiring future 1sts this far out in the hopes they turn into top 3. It happens more often than you think. Thoughts?
I was gonna say, it all depends how one feels about Olave, but it seems fair.  If that 1st turns out to be top 4 I’ll like it a lot more for your side. 

 
In a 12 team PPR *non TE-P* (start 1 TE) would you take Christian Watson, Freiermouth & a ‘23 mid-2nd (6-7-8) for Kyle Pitts? 
I would not think that is enough for me to move Pitts but I am not very high on 'Muth.  I think he is a good TE but similar to a lot of other guys out there.  Pitts is not.  

 
I would not think that is enough for me to move Pitts but I am not very high on 'Muth.  I think he is a good TE but similar to a lot of other guys out there.  Pitts is not.  
If the 2nd was a 1st, would that change the callous for you? Or still not enough? 

I’m feeling like we’ve hit the point where Pitts’ value may be at a peak. Starting to wonder how long it’s going to take for him to realize his potential on a team that’s kind of a hot mess. Especially since it’s not TE-P. 

 

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