Errors in an email I received from a student who wants a job (1 Viewer)

[hagmania]

fn aj green!

 

[cockroach]

Ur a cocksammich

 

[Statorama]

Chet actually did the kid a service with some tough love.  I'm in the process of adding an accounting degree and I'm shocked at some of the output I see during the peer review process.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Good thing the investment banking industry is so full of individuals that are so detail oriented, otherwise they'd be making horrible decisions that cost our economy trillions of dollars with no accountability.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Yesterday I got an email from a young car salesman I had spoken to on the phone a week ago, asking if I was still interested. I told him I bought elsewhere. He followed up 25 seconds later with an obvious template email asking if there is any way he could improve his service, etc. 

My my first reaction was to think "well, the first day we spoke, when you promised to email me that evening and yet didn't get back to me until three days later, it was at that moment I decided I probably wouldn't buy a car from you. It also didn't help that you used stupid sales pressure tactics to try and get me into the dealership and burn half a weekend day for me and my family when I told you I had no interest in that until you could confirm you have the car I want in inventory."  And since he was specifically asking, I thought about returning an email with these and other related criticisms. 

I instead decided life is too short and there is value in kindness, and that the kid was just trying to do his job probably the best way he knew how. So I let it go. 

See the difference?

Not really.  The kid didn't learn anything about how to do his job better.

On the other hand, you aren't supposed to be the one teaching him this stuff.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

...... with whom you wish to network. 

Nope.  That's Victorian nonsense and not necessary in proper English.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

I understand anyone calling me out for being an ####### but I'd also bet that they've never worked in investment banking.  Errors like the ones I pointed out are more than enough to get your resume tossed without any explanation--at least I identified his errors albeit in an admittedly harsh way.  I will give you two other much more extreme examples of ways that people used to get their cover letters and resumes tossed without exception. Saloman Brothers Inc spelled their name exactly that way.  Note, there's no period at the end of Inc and they were notorious for tossing any cover letters from people who included a period.  I never worked there so I can't confirm that story personally.  I did work at Goldman Sachs for about 10 years though.  The full name is Goldman, Sachs & Co. and which shortens to "Goldman Sachs".  People would often write the shortened form "Goldman, Sachs" which again, was enough to have their resumes tossed without explanation.

There are two main reasons for such harsh treatment of applicants.  The first and most important is that even entry level people are in a position to make decisions or carry out orders where making a mistake can cost the firm millions, get the firm sued or cost the firm a client.  So having someone who pays attention to detail is very important.  Earlier this year, my former assistant made an error that was caught almost immediately which cost my company almost $300k.  He wasn't fired for that mistake but he was for the next one.  The second reason is that it is exceptionally tough to get a job in my industry and therefore, we try to hire only the best of the best.  There are many qualified applicants and making an error like we see above is an easy way to eliminate a candidate.  Someone confusing your with you're is either not up to the caliber of applicant we hire or they're too sloppy to be considered.  Again, this was the first communication he'd ever made with me and it was riddled with errors.  I always proofread any communication I ever made with a prospective employer multiple times. 

You really didn't get why you were questioned on this one, did you?  If you are going to lecture on grammar and spelling, you really need to learn those things yourself.

 

[Ned]

He also showed restraint in calling out the grammatical errors in the response. Could have easily played the "hypocritical card". That's the sign of a team player and an employee that would be a solid member of the rank and file. 

Kid was obviously too dumb to spot the mistakes. 

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

Not sucking chet's **** here but chet is a heavy hitter. If he was a few years out of school it would be douchey. But someone at a senior level doesn't owe lunch to randos.

Disagree.  A person who "makes it/heavy hitter" owes it to those who are next in line.   Is Chet getting 500 requests per day for his "thoughts?"  Also, how did this "kid" get Chet's email/info if it wasn't available for mentoring?  

 

[eoMMan]

Did the kid respond?

Is he going to report you to AARP as a ####?

 

[T J]

I understand anyone calling me out for being an ####### but I'd also bet that they've never worked in investment banking.  Errors like the ones I pointed out are more than enough to get your resume tossed without any explanation--at least I identified his errors albeit in an admittedly harsh way.  I will give you two other much more extreme examples of ways that people used to get their cover letters and resumes tossed without exception.  Saloman Brothers Inc spelled their name exactly that way.  Note, there's no period at the end of Inc and they were notorious for tossing any cover letters from people who included a period.  I never worked there so I can't confirm that story personally.  I did work at Goldman Sachs for about 10 years though.  The full name is Goldman, Sachs & Co. and which shortens to "Goldman Sachs".  People would often write the shortened form "Goldman, Sachs" which again, was enough to have their resumes tossed without explanation.

There are two main reasons for such harsh treatment of applicants.  The first and most important is that even entry level people are in a position to make decisions or carry out orders where making a mistake can cost the firm millions, get the firm sued or cost the firm a client.  So having someone who pays attention to detail is very important.  Earlier this year, my former assistant made an error that was caught almost immediately which cost my company almost $300k.  He wasn't fired for that mistake but he was for the next one.  The second reason is that it is exceptionally tough to get a job in my industry and therefore, we try to hire only the best of the best.  There are many qualified applicants and making an error like we see above is an easy way to eliminate a candidate.  Someone confusing your with you're is either not up to the caliber of applicant we hire or they're too sloppy to be considered.  Again, this was the first communication he'd ever made with me and it was riddled with errors.  I always proofread any communication I ever made with a prospective employer multiple times. 

Whatever blah blah blah......

 

[wazoo11]

Way to kill his curiosity and discourage him.

One of the best things I did in college was reaching out to professors for help.  Cut him some slack next time if he emails again. 

 

[ghostguy123]

I understand anyone calling me out for being an ####### but I'd also bet that they've never worked in investment banking.  Errors like the ones I pointed out are more than enough to get your resume tossed without any explanation--at least I identified his errors albeit in an admittedly harsh way.  I will give you two other much more extreme examples of ways that people used to get their cover letters and resumes tossed without exception.  Saloman Brothers Inc spelled their name exactly that way.  Note, there's no period at the end of Inc and they were notorious for tossing any cover letters from people who included a period.  I never worked there so I can't confirm that story personally.  I did work at Goldman Sachs for about 10 years though.  The full name is Goldman, Sachs & Co. and which shortens to "Goldman Sachs".  People would often write the shortened form "Goldman, Sachs" which again, was enough to have their resumes tossed without explanation.

There are two main reasons for such harsh treatment of applicants.  The first and most important is that even entry level people are in a position to make decisions or carry out orders where making a mistake can cost the firm millions, get the firm sued or cost the firm a client.  So having someone who pays attention to detail is very important.  Earlier this year, my former assistant made an error that was caught almost immediately which cost my company almost $300k.  He wasn't fired for that mistake but he was for the next one.  The second reason is that it is exceptionally tough to get a job in my industry and therefore, we try to hire only the best of the best.  There are many qualified applicants and making an error like we see above is an easy way to eliminate a candidate.  Someone confusing your with you're is either not up to the caliber of applicant we hire or they're too sloppy to be considered.  Again, this was the first communication he'd ever made with me and it was riddled with errors.  I always proofread any communication I ever made with a prospective employer multiple times. 

Then how did you get your job?  Your grammar was terrible in your reply to him. 

 

[TakiToki]

Then how did you get your job?  Your grammar was terrible in your reply to him. 

Just a wild guess, but I'd imagine Chet put forth more effort towards ensuring his grammar was correct when he was first attempting to get a job than he did when replying to this email.

 

[avoiding injuries]

At "our" age, it shouldn't take much effort to ensure correct grammar.

 

[ghostguy123]

Just a wild guess, but I'd imagine Chet put forth more effort towards ensuring his grammar was correct when he was first attempting to get a job than he did when replying to this email.

It's probably a good idea to put forth some effort to ensure your grammar isn't terrible when going off on an unprofessional rant that criticizes the other guy's grammar.  Just sayin...............Makes him look like a pompous moron

 

[FattyVM]

I think his (op) response was on point. It's an analyst position and the dude (The guy) has shown that he can't proof his own emails? I don't mean that I expect perfection. I hope that I, or others who are filtering for other jobs can look past minor mistakes (because I know I have screwed up in the past, and will screw up in the future), but that was an unfiltered form letter. You need to draw the line somewhere. An occasional your, you're or spelling mistake shouldn't be a bar, but something of this caliber should raise some flags. 

I appreciate the fact he (op) responded with a non-stock answer that should wake up the applicant (The guy) to the fact he can't just scattershot these things without some thought. Jobs are hard to come by and the buckshot approach is the response, but you still need to have some care there.

 

[TakiToki]

It's probably a good idea to put forth some effort to ensure your grammar isn't terrible when going off on an unprofessional rant that criticizes the other guy's grammar.  Just sayin...............Makes him look like a pompous moron

I think that's just the cross he has to bear.

 

[Apple Jack]

It's probably a good idea to put forth some effort to ensure your grammar isn't terrible when going off on an unprofessional rant that criticizes the other guy's grammar.  Just sayin...............Makes him look like a pompous moron

You're on the wrong hill.

 

[Apple Jack]

I think his response was on point. It's an analyst position that can't proof his own emails? I don't mean that I expect perfection. I hope that I, or others who are filtering for other jobs can look past minor mistakes (because I know I have screwed up in the past, and will screw up in the future), but that was an unfiltered form letter. You need to draw the line somewhere. An occasional your, you're or spelling mistake shouldn't be a bar, but something of this caliber should raise some flags. 

I appreciate the fact he responded with a non-stock answer that should wake up the applicant to the fact he can't just scattershot these things without some thought. Jobs are hard to come buy and the buckshot approach is the response, but you still need to have some care there.

If he sent that out as a blast he's even more of an idiot than first thought. Still leaning fishing trip.

 

[FattyVM]

If he sent that out as a blast he's even more of an idiot than first thought. Still leaning fishing trip.

It's that time of year. These guys probably graduated in June and spent a summer living it up on a parent's tab and they finally got the ultimatum.  Alot of my classmates have had similar motivations, and it results in this crap. It annoys me. It's just one more reasons why big companies turn to bots and pre-filters which make the scattershot approach more necessary. 

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

My response was short and to the point:

I received your email and I must tell you that I was more than a little surprised at the grammatical errors it contained.  I strongly suggest you learn the difference between "your" and "you're" or have someone proofread for you before you contact any other prospective employers.  I also noticed the comma splice in your last sentence.  Attention to detail and the ability to communicate effectively are traits we value highly in our analysts so I am sorry to say we won't be able to pursue your interest further.

I don't blame chet for declining to meet with the kid, or for pointing out that employers like careful applicants instead of careless ones. My main gripe with chet's response is that, though he advertises it as being short and to the point, I must tell you that I was more than a little surprised at the hot air it contained.

Short and to the point would be something like:

I will not be able to meet with you in person, but I can offer some well-meaning advice: proofread your emails better to avoid errors in spelling and punctuation. It really does make a difference.

 

[gianmarco]

That's not just short and to the point. It's respectful, helpful, and accomplishes the same thing without the douchebaggery.

 

[Christo]

Maybe if the kid had a brain tumor you would have treated him a little better.

At least then he'd have an excuse for his poor e-mail drafting skills.

 

[Christo]

I completely understood his email, and isn't that what communication is all about?

No. As chet pointed out, communication encompases both the message and the writer's ability. The words a writer chooses convey a message about the attitude and ability of the writer.

If you look at the first e-mail, he made the same mistake twice.

 

[Major]

I understand anyone calling me out for being an ####### but I'd also bet that they've never worked in investment banking.  Errors like the ones I pointed out are more than enough to get your resume tossed without any explanation--at least I identified his errors albeit in an admittedly harsh way.  I will give you two other much more extreme examples of ways that people used to get their cover letters and resumes tossed without exception.  Saloman Brothers Inc spelled their name exactly that way.  Note, there's no period at the end of Inc and they were notorious for tossing any cover letters from people who included a period.  I never worked there so I can't confirm that story personally.  I did work at Goldman Sachs for about 10 years though.  The full name is Goldman, Sachs & Co. and which shortens to "Goldman Sachs".  People would often write the shortened form "Goldman, Sachs" which again, was enough to have their resumes tossed without explanation.

There are two main reasons for such harsh treatment of applicants.  The first and most important is that even entry level people are in a position to make decisions or carry out orders where making a mistake can cost the firm millions, get the firm sued or cost the firm a client.  So having someone who pays attention to detail is very important.  Earlier this year, my former assistant made an error that was caught almost immediately which cost my company almost $300k.  He wasn't fired for that mistake but he was for the next one.  The second reason is that it is exceptionally tough to get a job in my industry and therefore, we try to hire only the best of the best.  There are many qualified applicants and making an error like we see above is an easy way to eliminate a candidate.  Someone confusing your with you're is either not up to the caliber of applicant we hire or they're too sloppy to be considered.  Again, this was the first communication he'd ever made with me and it was riddled with errors.  I always proofread any communication I ever made with a prospective employer multiple times. 

Early in my career I did the investment banking thing for a bulge bracket and all that Chet says is accurate.   The attention to detail aspect is critical.  I give credit to Chet for even responding.  I would have just ignored it and moved on.  

 

[Judge Smails]

Maurile is on point here.  I think you are doing the kid a favor by pointing out areas he can improve, but no need to do it in a condescending tone. 

 

[chet]

Maurile is on point here.  I think you are doing the kid a favor by pointing out areas he can improve, but no need to do it in a condescending tone. 

Point taken.

 

[The General]

What was the point of letting us all know about this?

 

[dancingbones]

Below is an email I received today from a student at my alma mater: 

My response was short and to the point:

I showed both to my kids and emphasized the importance of avoiding these kinds of errors.

Just read a couple of pages, but I think this is a great response. 

Tells the kid what s/he needs to know if s/he is paying attention. 

 

[Hilts]

What was the point of letting us all know about this?

Same reason for most threads here and the ffa in general?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Nope.  That's Victorian nonsense and not necessary in proper English.

First one surrenders grammatically and then morally.  The road to perdition is paved with the twin cobblestones of laziness and lack of education.  Why the next thing you know women will be showing their ankles and gentlemen will be expectorating in the streets rather than into cuspidors, as is appropriate.

 

[The General]

Same reason for most threads here and the ffa in general?

And what is that? Seemed a bit harsh but Chet's point that his business is very exact and those errors were bad is fair enough. 

Also seemed a bit strange to post it in here the way it was. That's all. 

 

[the moops]

What exactly happens to cause someone to lose a client millions of dollars by simply misspelling a word?

 

[Otis]

What exactly happens to cause someone to lose a client millions of dollars by simply misspelling a word?

Go ask the guy who went out and plunked down $50MM on APLL stock.

 

[SWC]

hey man i guess you got your reasons and i know my crap life and what i do for dineros aint nothin to a bigshot but me and mine well its always been more of a help pull the next guy up and i try to do it with a kind word and a smile on my face i guess it just comes down to how your momma raised you take that to the bank brohans 

 

[Joe Summer]

What was the point of letting us all know about this?

New here? This is chet's schtick.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I didn't get the feeling he was asking for a job but rather a conversation. That was an opportunity to coach him up about being detail oriented. 

Sounds like that's what he did.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Here's all Chet had to do:

"I would absolutely like to chat with you and answer any questions you have about this business" etc etc etc

And then at the end

"Just a little advice.  There are a few grammar and spelling errors in your message.  In the future it would be to your benefit to proofread anything you send to future employers and/or people you wish to network with.  A little extra effort and attention to detail go a long way.  

Brat of luck,

Chet the Giant Gasbag"

Why should Chet give him an hour of his time if the kid can't even give Chet 15 seconds to proofread a four sentence email?

 

[Judge Smails]

For what it's worth, my CEO just sent a group email to those of us attending the board meeting this week.  Said he needed changes to the deck "buy" instead of "by".  Everyone is going so fast (hundreds of emails and communication points) that mistakes happen. And sometimes I proofread stuff until my eyes bleed and still something might slip through the cracks.

Still, communication absolutely matters.  Writing especially is suffering these days.  Critical in all businesses.  I will not hire or keep salespeople who can't write well.  I'm hopeful that the texting generation steps up..

 

[Guest]

And what is that? Seemed a bit harsh but Chet's point that his business is very exact and those errors were bad is fair enough. 

Also seemed a bit strange to post it in here the way it was. That's all. 

Not to be overlooked is that this is essentially a cold call. When you're getting a flood of resumes for your jobs it doesn't take much to get ding'ed as an easy way to sift. Maurile's answer was probably better, or at least more civil. But just telling the guy that he was sloppy and that was and would be enough to get your resume tossed is valuable information for him in the future. Which is I'm guessing why chet showed it to his kids. A lesson that when you're marketing yourself, little things matter. Particularly on matters of first impression where the person reading what you wrote doesn't have a pre-existing investment in bringing you on and being a little forgiving.

I read within the last couple of years that I-banking/hedge fund jobs were the #1 preference of Harvard grads. I had a friend who did it and then retired at 31. And if you want, you can keep at it and make chet bucks. All this with no requirement beyond a college degree (although granted it better be a pretty good looking one). It's not like this guy was just sending in for a sales or insurance job.

And also importantly (imo) is that he was sending it to someone who is senior level. If you're sending it to someone who is more freshly out, 24 or 25 years old, I'd expect a little more leeway. Even if the result may be similar.

 

[jonessed]

A motivated college kid is reaching out to you for advice and pointers--and you refused him the opportunity because of a couple of grammatical errors?  I hope that you teach your kids that it is far more important that they be decent human beings than it is that they be grammar nazis.   

Those types of grammatical errors are unacceptable in a professional communication.  They are easily caught and corrected  by anyone with decent writing skills willing to invest an extra few minutes.

Chet did the kid a favor by pointing out the issue so he might learn to take better care next time.  I would not have been so harsh, but I still think it was better to give the feedback than not.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Below is an email I received today from a student at my alma mater: 

My response was short and to the point:

I showed both to my kids and emphasized the importance of avoiding these kinds of errors.

Attention to detail and the ability to communicate effectively are traits we value highly in our analysts so I am sorry to say we won't be able to pursue your interest further.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Those types of grammatical errors are unacceptable in a professional communication.  They are easily caught and corrected  by anyone with decent writing skills willing to invest an extra few minutes.

Chet did the kid a favor by pointing out the issue so he might learn to take better care next time.  I would not have been so harsh, but I still think it was better to give the feedback than not.

Yep, it may have been harsh but I bet this kid is going to spend the time to proof read his professional emails from now on.

 

[Chemical X]

On the bright side it seems he dodged having to work for an #######

if you have a LIKE bucket, let me know........I will dump all of mine in it.