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Explosions in Manchester? (1 Viewer)

Zow said:
My point is that we have rights. :facepalm:

Look, we tried this #### with the Japanese internment camps. Certainly, you don't actually think that was a good idea, right?
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Completely different...Then they rounded up everybody who even resembled a Japanese person....I'm talking about people for whatever reason have already made the roster of  terror -people the intelligence and law enforcement agencies have determined they need to keep an eye on... I'm also talking about bringing them in and questioning them...Those who are determined to be unnecessarily on the list are released, those who remain in question, remain in custody until it is resolved either way...Why would we want to keep a watch list of unnecessary use or length.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
Completely different...Then they rounded up everybody who even resembled a Japanese person....I'm talking about people for whatever reason have already made the roster of  terror -people the intelligence and law enforcement agencies have determined they need to keep an eye on... I'm also talking about bringing them in and questioning them...Those who are determined to be unnecessarily on the list are released, those who remain in question, remain in custody until it is resolved either way...Why would we want to keep a watch list of unnecessary use or length.
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Exactly. This guy was on a terror watch list for a reason. What was the reason? If they determined he needed to be on the list then that should be a reasonable offense to arrest him and then he would have to await trial from prison.

 
squistion said:
Dominic Casciani‏Verified account @BBCDomC 9h9 hours ago

BREAKING:

The BBC has learnt that police have stopped passing on information

about #Manchester bombing to the US following leaks.
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So we've gone from from civil servants pissed that a conservative won and leaking to just saying "#### it, give me cash and I'll send you anything."

Some folks need some jail time here.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
I just can't understand why the many good would let the few evil, basically hold them hostage...The many good should want stomp the few evil heads like grapes...
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The simple answer is that you have to stomp this "ideology" out at the source. Source can mean killing children.  Not everyone is ok with that, but its the right answer.

 
the leaked imaged are still on NY Times website :loco: :loco:

why wouldn't they have been pulled by now

 
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I actually saw those images early this morning on an UK news site so I don't know who leaked it first

 
Max Power said:
The simple answer is that you have to stomp this "ideology" out at the source. Source can mean killing children.  Not everyone is ok with that, but its the right answer.
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couple questions...

- what's the source?

- how do you stomp it out?

- what do you think the result will be for these people when they see the US killing children as a means of us trying to change how they think and what they believe? do you think it will help stop them from feeling or thinking that way? 

 
LTG Raymond Thomas said it.  And I dont think he is out of ballpark.  Its not a popular opinion but can we and should keep going down the same path?  Killing the terrorists who have committed a crime is only going scrape the surface. 

If the US kills my dad... The US is enemy.  No matter what age.  IF you want this to stop, we need to think outside the box.  Yes... its a #### thing to say, but its what the world is.

 
Max Power said:
LTG Raymond Thomas said it.  And I dont think he is out of ballpark.  Its not a popular opinion but can we and should keep going down the same path?  Killing the terrorists who have committed a crime is only going scrape the surface. 

If the US kills my dad... The US is enemy.  No matter what age.  IF you want this to stop, we need to think outside the box.  Yes... its a #### thing to say, but its what the world is.
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can you expand- you haven't really said anything yet.

 
El Floppo said:
can you expand- you haven't really said anything yet.
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There is a large population of people in the defense department who think we should engage children.  The current ROE is to avoid women and children at all costs.  However women are now suicide bombers and these kids grow up to be terrorists.  We can keep being politically correct, but it may costs lives.  Its a tough situation, and if I was asked to vote one side or the other, it would be a long reflection period.

 
Max Power said:
There is a large population of people in the defense department who think we should engage children.  The current ROE is to avoid women and children at all costs.  However women are now suicide bombers and these kids grow up to be terrorists.  We can keep being politically correct, but it may costs lives.  Its a tough situation, and if I was asked to vote one side or the other, it would be a long reflection period.
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are you saying children are the source you mentioned stomping out earlier? and that killing terrorists kids will stop terrorism?  I'm genuinely not following. 

 
Max Power said:
There is a large population of people in the defense department who think we should engage children.  The current ROE is to avoid women and children at all costs.  However women are now suicide bombers and these kids grow up to be terrorists.  We can keep being politically correct, but it may costs lives.  Its a tough situation, and if I was asked to vote one side or the other, it would be a long reflection period.
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what about a covert sterilization process instead of killing? put something in the water? airborne agent? 

 
Here is a hypothetical for the following crowd.  An 8 year old kid has a terrorist father in is in training to be a suicide bomber.  There is a 50/50 chance that he does it one day and kills 20 people.  Would you kill him now?

 
El Floppo said:
are you saying children are the source you mentioned stomping out earlier? and that killing terrorists kids will stop terrorism?  I'm genuinely not following. 
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It wont stop it.  Its a factor that needs be considered though. Right now its only prolonging the cycle.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
Completely different...Then they rounded up everybody who even resembled a Japanese person....I'm talking about people for whatever reason have already made the roster of  terror -people the intelligence and law enforcement agencies have determined they need to keep an eye on... I'm also talking about bringing them in and questioning them...Those who are determined to be unnecessarily on the list are released, those who remain in question, remain in custody until it is resolved either way...Why would we want to keep a watch list of unnecessary use or length.
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Who do you propose gets the power to make these decisions?

For "whatever reason" they are on the terror list. Who decides that criteria?

Only if they are deemed "unnecessarily" on the list they are released?

So if Trump is unhappy he is getting ridiculed on a fantasy football message board maybe he makes a call and someone from here gets rounded up and held. Hey.....they "might" do something. 

Lets not stop there. What about people that "might" commit murder?  Why is the life of one worth less than the life of many?

Lets round these people up.  They "may" do something.  I am sure at no time in history has anyone abused power like this to condemn and ruin the lives of innocent people....

I assume we are including domestic terrorists in this roundup, should limit the questioning to anyone that owns a gun. 

 
Max Power said:
Here is a hypothetical for the following crowd.  An 8 year old kid has a terrorist father in is in training to be a suicide bomber.  There is a 50/50 chance that he does it one day and kills 20 people.  Would you kill him now?
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I would definitely arrest him, if he resists arrest then killing him is justified.

 
Max Power said:
Tough call.  Yes and no.  I'm not the guy who has to make this decision.  I think it will reduce it.  Is that worth it?
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On what planet would that not make the problem worse!?  It is easy enough to demonize the West, how many recruits do they get if they can say "they are going to kill your children even if they SUSPECT you might grow up to be a terrorist". 

I am sorry, but that is as evil as the terrorists. 

 
The Duff Man said:
On what planet would that not make the problem worse!?  It is easy enough to demonize the West, how many recruits do they get if they can say "they are going to kill your children even if they SUSPECT you might grow up to be a terrorist". 

I am sorry, but that is as evil as the terrorists. 
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pulling the trigger makes a world of difference.

 
Max Power said:
But shouldn't their voice matter?
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They can say whatever they want, it's their right. I have (this is not an exclusive list) the right to disagree, to laugh and to disregard.

I choose to exercise those rights with respect to the statement by Lt General Raymond Thomas, as refered to and paraphrased by you

 
msommer said:
They can say whatever they want, it's their right. I have (this is not an exclusive list) the right to disagree, to laugh and to disregard.

I choose to exercise those rights with respect to the statement by Lt General Raymond Thomas, as refered to and paraphrased by you
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Have you watched Cubs of the caliphate?  Should we give those kids a pass? 

 
And so now people are advocating that we kill 8 years olds as a pre-emptive strike against a potential future terrorist?

Unbelievable. I am hoping this is trolling but sadly I think it isn't.

 
The Duff Man said:
Who do you propose gets the power to make these decisions?

For "whatever reason" they are on the terror list. Who decides that criteria?

Only if they are deemed "unnecessarily" on the list they are released?

So if Trump is unhappy he is getting ridiculed on a fantasy football message board maybe he makes a call and someone from here gets rounded up and held. Hey.....they "might" do something. 

Lets not stop there. What about people that "might" commit murder?  Why is the life of one worth less than the life of many?

Lets round these people up.  They "may" do something.  I am sure at no time in history has anyone abused power like this to condemn and ruin the lives of innocent people....

I assume we are including domestic terrorists in this roundup, should limit the questioning to anyone that owns a gun. 
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I keep saying I have no idea what criteria is used to make the terror watch list, but there must be some criteria because we have a list....Who makes the list now? FBI, CIA, Interpol, ?..I don't know...but again apparently there is a list so somebody is making it....My understanding is the existing list as it stands now is limited to terror suspects but who knows how expansive it is....Duff you sound like a man who believes government is corrupt and I certainly don't blame you, but I personally am willing to take the chance that whoever is in charge of the list does so with our overall safety in mind... Not to use the list to purposely harm innocent people...Between terrorist and our government I guess I side with our government...

 
Max Power said:
LTG Raymond Thomas said it.  And I dont think he is out of ballpark.  Its not a popular opinion but can we and should keep going down the same path?  Killing the terrorists who have committed a crime is only going scrape the surface. 

If the US kills my dad... The US is enemy.  No matter what age.  IF you want this to stop, we need to think outside the box.  Yes... its a #### thing to say, but its what the world is.
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The problem is you're talking about a mental illness

 
shadyridr said:
Exactly. This guy was on a terror watch list for a reason. What was the reason? If they determined he needed to be on the list then that should be a reasonable offense to arrest him and then he would have to await trial from prison.
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You've got to be kidding me.

 
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