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Explosions in Manchester? (1 Viewer)

This is pretty awesome. Hopefully it doesn't turn out be an Internet rumor/hoax. Sorry if it has already been posted.

LONDON — He was there, reportedly, because it was a good place to beg.

As Manchester and the rest of Britain were coming to terms with the country’s deadliest terrorist attack in more than a decade, Chris Parker, a 33-year-old who has been homeless for about a year, was being hailed on social media for his selflessness and courage.

Rather than running for safety after the bombing, Mr. Parker went to the aid of victims. He pulled nails out of children’s arms and from the face of a small girl. He comforted another girl who had lost her legs, wrapping her in a T-shirt. He cradled a dying woman in his arms.

Mr. Parker had been panhandling in the concourse area outside Manchester Arena when the bomb exploded, according to local news reports. The force of the blast knocked him to the floor, but he was unfazed.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/24/world/europe/homeless-hero-manchester.html?_r=0

 
beer 30 said:
Occam's razor

As if they care about friends and family. They strap bombs to their children and wives and send them to the front lines. The terrorists view of life and a Westerners view of life are very different but you are probably more aware of this than most. You've traveled the world and seen it up close, do you really believe it would matter to someone who is resigned to blowing themselves up and taking as many innocent civilians with them as possible would care much about what happens to their family?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/the-manchester-attack-will-change-british-life-for-the-worse/article35084237/

The problem is that there are hundreds such people, far more than agencies can monitor (it can take dozens of full-time officials to keep tabs on one suspect individual).

Mr. Barrett described the scope of the problem: “You’ve got the returnees from Iraq and Syria, there are over 400 of those, there are all the people who wanted to go to Iraq or Syria but were stopped, we heard some time ago there were 600 of those, so already you’re up to 1,000 before you even start on the people who live here and maybe never expressed any or didn’t knowingly express any intention to go to Syria, so what do you do about that?”

This is where I sit back and wonder...if you have 400+ individuals returning from Jihad, why monitor? Why let them back in the country? And if you do, why let them walk the streets? Lock them up. I know that's not a popular opinion but jeez, it's pretty clear these folks have been radicalized in some way. At some point you gotta throw the PC stuff out and do what makes sense.
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Sake good order, this guy was not a returning jihadi warrior

 
Ditka Butkus said:
What I want is to skip the" rule" where they (terror suspects) have to actually kill somebody before they can be dealt with...If they are on a terror watch list they should be brought in, investigated and given there day in court and if convicted of terror or supporting terror , eliminated. You can define eliminated however you like.... That's what I want..
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Many terrorists are apprehended (also in the UK) prior to them carrying out their plans

 
Sand said:
If they can prove these guys are providing material support or taking part in terrorism training (i.e. a legal process) revoking citizenship and deportation should be on the table.  Here,too.
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I believe it is. At least in many countries in Europe. Hard to do, though, for the ones that are born in the country where they plan and/or commit atrocities, such as the perp in Manchester

 
beer 30 said:
Yea i realize that, my point with that article is why are you letting returning jihadi's back in the country? Makes no sense to me
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I can only speak for Denmark, where we until now have had a good deal of success reassimilating returning jihadis, who in many cases come back disillusioned with ISIS etc, having realized that life in the middle ages is not as fun as they thought. The most success was in a program in Aarhus that I believe has received some international press. 

 
Ditka Butkus said:
With these rights...how are they "apprehending" (your words) the other terrorist before they commit their act?
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I believe the term is good old fashioned police work

ETA: it is not always successful, unfortunately

 
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As a follow up....what rights are violated to make the terror watch list?...Profiling, wire tapping, hacking?...Some how these degenerates make the list...What good is a list if you don't act upon it?

 
Ditka Butkus said:
As a follow up....what rights are violated to make the terror watch list?...Profiling, wire tapping, hacking?...Some how these degenerates make the list...What good is a list if you don't act upon it?
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Um, nobody really has a problem with a terror watch list. Even the "bleeding hearts" at the ACLU have not called for it to be eliminated.

But your solution seems to be to suspend due process for anyone on the list. Fortunately, our Constitution accords all people, even those on a terror watch list, due process under the law.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
As a follow up....what rights are violated to make the terror watch list?...Profiling, wire tapping, hacking?...Some how these degenerates make the list...What good is a list if you don't act upon it?
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I don't believe any rights are violated to make the terror watch list. 

 
squistion said:
Um, nobody really has a problem with a terror watch list. Even the "bleeding hearts" at the ACLU have not called for it to be eliminated.

But your solution seems to be to suspend due process for anyone on the list. Fortunately, our Constitution accords all people, even those on a terror watch list, due process under the law.
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Hey honey can you get me some groceries ...sure make a list....hey how come you didn't get anything on the list....Oh you wanted those things, I thought the list was just a suggestion..

 
Ditka Butkus said:
Hey honey can you get me some groceries ...sure make a list....hey how come you didn't get anything on the list....Oh you wanted those things, I thought the list was just a suggestion..
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The Founding Fathers were aware of abuses of the legal system under British law, where any perceived enemies of the state were locked up and presumed guilty because of their associations. Obviously, a lot of innocent people were imprisoned including those that were simply political rivals. With this background, the requirement of giving those suspected of crimes due process under was included in The Constitution.

 
squistion said:
The Founding Fathers were aware of abuses of the legal system under British law, where any perceived enemies of the state were locked up and presumed guilty because of their associations. Obviously, a lot of innocent people were imprisoned including those that were simply political rivals. With this background, the requirement of giving those suspected of crimes due process under was included in The Constitution.
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This is for another thread and not here...... but your important statement here is, "those suspected of crimes."

I'd be willing to engage in a thread no one else will enjoy very much over whether or not the actions of terrorists should be considered crimes, or acts of war.  Because in the acts of war sphere, the 5th Amendment doesn't necessarily become the bedrock principal.

 
Billy Bats said:
They say if you see something, say something. A 22 year old dark skinned male walking around amongst teenage girls, probably bundled up to hide his bomb, I would think would be noticeable. Some will call it profiling, and that's ok with me. In these days if something sticks out like a sore thumb then it's probably worth checking out. 
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And what do you know, a women noticed something odd and it didn't feel right to her and her daughter, so she told security about the lady sitting next to them. In a longer version (I'm trying to find) she continues to say that the security personnel told her "how would you feel if someone accused you of this, we'll look into it" and she finishes with "nothing was done, the woman got up a few minutes early before the concert ended and then the explosion went off."  

Eta: Found the full interview

####### PC ####### BULL####. God help those people if that lady was involved and they did nothing. 

:angry: :rant:  

 
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If you see something, say something, except if they're Muslim, then don't say anything because it could be offensive.

 
Billy Bats said:
And what do you know, a women noticed something odd and it didn't feel right to her and her daughter, so she told security about the lady sitting next to them. In a longer version (I'm trying to find) she continues to say that the security personnel told her "how would you feel if someone accused you of this, we'll look into it" and she finishes with "nothing was done, the woman got up a few minutes early before the concert ended and then the explosion went off."  

Eta: Found the full interview

####### PC ####### BULL####. God help those people if that lady was involved and they did nothing. 

:angry: :rant:  
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Was waiting to hear that the woman looked Muslim or was wearing a hijab. Have there been any reports of the bomber having a female accomplice?

The fact that she appeared nervous and was fidgeting with her bag really doesn't mean that much by itself, particularly since there appears to have been only one perpetrator at the scene.

Also, looking at the Youtube message comments, the woman seems to be embellishing her account as time goes on:

Zahida1 day ago

Her interviews become more exaggerated one interview after the other. She never mentioned the woman looking at the point of the explosion and smirking in the other interview. Pls stop giving these morons airtime

 
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Billy Bats said:
And what do you know, a women noticed something odd and it didn't feel right to her and her daughter, so she told security about the lady sitting next to them. In a longer version (I'm trying to find) she continues to say that the security personnel told her "how would you feel if someone accused you of this, we'll look into it" and she finishes with "nothing was done, the woman got up a few minutes early before the concert ended and then the explosion went off."  

Eta: Found the full interview

####### PC ####### BULL####. God help those people if that lady was involved and they did nothing. 

:angry: :rant:  
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Maybe the woman acted uncomfortably because 3 crazy ladies next to her wouldn't stop staring and talking about her? Seems like one of those stories where things seem connected afterwards but really aren't. The woman was playing with her bag, looking around and sometimes had her hands in her pockets? She just described half the crowd.

 
JAMES! said:
Maybe the woman acted uncomfortably because 3 crazy ladies next to her wouldn't stop staring and talking about her? Seems like one of those stories where things seem connected afterwards but really aren't. The woman was playing with her bag, looking around and sometimes had her hands in her pockets? She just described half the crowd.
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Shocking - smiling at a concert? Troubling indeed. We must stamp out this sort of behaviour

 
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msommer said:
I can only speak for Denmark, where we until now have had a good deal of success reassimilating returning jihadis, who in many cases come back disillusioned with ISIS etc, having realized that life in the middle ages is not as fun as they thought. The most success was in a program in Aarhus that I believe has received some international press. 
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And herein lies what I would deem a problem, if you fail with just one, the results are innocent deaths in your country.  

 
JAMES! said:
Maybe the woman acted uncomfortably because 3 crazy ladies next to her wouldn't stop staring and talking about her? Seems like one of those stories where things seem connected afterwards but really aren't. The woman was playing with her bag, looking around and sometimes had her hands in her pockets? She just described half the crowd.
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Absolutely and probably wasn't related. I'm more disturbed at the story she told of the security officers lecturing her and possibly not even looking into their concern. 

 
Billy Bats said:
Absolutely and probably wasn't related. I'm more disturbed at the story she told of the security officers lecturing her and possibly not even looking into their concern. 
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She said they watched the woman. I thought the not checking bags thing was way more serious.

 
Sand said:
If they can prove these guys are providing material support or taking part in terrorism training (i.e. a legal process) revoking citizenship and deportation should be on the table.  Here,too.
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Of course.  But this is so much easier said than done. 

 
msommer said:
6th person arrested in the UK in connection with the attack
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Once law enforcement and gov't agencies know about a plot, they are pretty awesome at stopping it.  It's why the same group rarely is able to pull off two attacks.  It has to be highly coordinated like 9/11 or they really struggle as the authorities zero in on them fast.  

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4534016/amp/Katie-Hopkins-Manchester-Arena-terrorist-attack.html
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Related to your second link, it's sad that we've become numb to this. Markets barely react, this only get 10 pages on here, etc. On the flip side, not moving on would give the terrorists even more power.  I don't really understand the point of the article. Apart from trying to set the groundwork for some nationalistic response. 

I am all for doing more, but in a measured way. Many here's first response to this is to instantly give up their rights.  Call me old fashioned but if we sacrifice our rights, then everything done before us was for naught. I think there needs to be a balance and would hope we'd learn after 9/11 that snap reactions aren't necessarily helpful and restrict our rights. 

 
Ditka Butkus said:
These same six could have been arrested before the 22 died...But they have rights you know.
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What rights? Being the expert on UK law, please enlighten us. Also, on what grounds they could have been arrested for, prior to the event?

 
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squistion said:
What rights? Being the expert on UK law, please enlighten us. Also, on what grounds they could have been arrested for, prior to the event?
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I don't know what rights, but apparently they do because that is what I am continually told. Look back through the thread if you don't believe me. Once they are put on the terror watch list they should be detained and vetted thoroughly. Now they are allowed to be on the watch list and kill people.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
These same six could have been arrested before the 22 died...But they have rights you know.
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You're arguing for a Minority Report like structure. And I know you think it's a great idea and that it could save lives but it would also ruin lives. We as a society, have chosen the innocent until proven guilty model.  Feel free to practice a guilty until innocent model somewhere else. 

 
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